Experiences with American women -- a question from jen

[jb]

I believe PL is a Russian guy.

[KenC]

sure it is a lot

you seem to be interested in russian girls as well so  what are you trying to say

I broke my promise not to post in this strange thread which smells like only useless debating thing which can lead to insults and crazy scandals

Jazzy,
You are correct to think that AW are upset about AM seeking women in the fsu, but it is not because of the large number of men doing so.  Even though this option has become more popular, the number of men going to the fsu is still quite small in the over all picture of things here.  AW are upset over AM having any other option than them!  The idea that men here may even prefer women from another country drives AW crazy.

Years ago a popular womens TV show, "The View" did a show on MOBs.  They (the AW on the show) desperately tried to find faults with these foreign relationships.  First they attacked the men going over as losers and then the RW as green card whores and finally they tried to make it sound as though the men were just buying a housewife and cleaning lady.  It had to be the most unbalanced show I had ever seen.

When Lena first arrived here, my social circle was in shock.  But what was funny was how the AW reacted.  The single AW were pissed that I had the audacity to select a woman outside the "norm" (one of them).  And the married AW were threatened that maybe their husbands would dump them and go the route I took.  Women from the fsu were few and far between at the time, but it only took one to shake up their world!
KenC

[TigerPaws]

When Lena first arrived here, my social circle was in shock.  But what was funny was how the AW reacted.  The single AW were pissed that I had the audacity to select a woman outside the "norm" (one of them).  And the married AW were threatened that maybe their husbands would dump them and go the route I took.  Women from the fsu were few and far between at the time, but it only took one to shake up their world!KenC

KenC,

You have touched on something I have been telling men for some time now, your friends will change after your lady arrives. Men I grew up with were pressured by their wife's to not attend social functions, to go hunting, fishing or other activities which were the norm over the years.

It is sad but your analysis is right on target about the thinking of most AW in this regards.

TigerPaws

[MaxxumUSA]

When Lena first arrived here, my social circle was in shock.  But what was funny was how the AW reacted.  The single AW were pissed that I had the audacity to select a woman outside the "norm" (one of them).  And the married AW were threatened that maybe their husbands would dump them and go the route I took.  Women from the fsu were few and far between at the time, but it only took one to shake up their world!
KenC

Ken,

Elena is not even here yet and I am getting extremely rude comments about the whole deal.  I guess many of my friends were not sure of my sincerety and subsequently left their opinions reserved.  I have been very open about my visits to russia and the purpose of those visits.

I almost started another thread about the rudeness and crudeness I received Saturday night at a large social gathering.   Some of the woman (not all) were already insulting Elena - sight unseen.  These are wives and GF's of aquaintences of mine.  Many of the men are giving me suggestions of prenup and already have us divorced as soon as she gets her green card.  I'm in a small area as far as population goes - only about 40,000 people in the area.  So this means many of "us" know each other over the years.

I was having drinks at a bonfire at a friends camp and some of the women got me to a point that I said I was tired - and called a taxi.  Not only were they rude to me, but they were just rude in general to their own husbands.  The crap that comes out of their mouths is shocking.  It's like they want to be one of the boys.

I can only imagine what will happen once Elena gets here.  I know there will be some people that I will kick out of my life.  I think Elena will handle herself great - but I am not so sure how I will handle myself if I overhear some woman insult her.  I think there is going to be an adjustment period with a switch of "friends."

Don't get me wrong - I have many friends both men and women that I know will welcome Elena with open arms and go out of their way to make her feel comfortable.  I am referring to the "Some people" that I am unsure about.

[jen]

Here is my bold prediction:
This will be just like every single other blatant twisted report that has ever been made on this
subject. You will all be pissed the way things were twisted to make all men seeking an RW losers
and all RW desperate or scammers.

Why do I make this bold prediction? because
1. Every single other time in Feminist history it has happened.

2. She will be ignored, shunned and disgraced by her Feminists friends, followers and faculty if she puts any kind of positive outlook on this regardless of the truth. It is not allowed in the Feminists community to have original thoughts and especially not thoughts that contradict the Feminists Mantra. It would be easier for her to end womens suffrage!!! or to overturn Roe V Wade

3. She must add stories of Russian women who are beaten and killed and must insist that men travel to Russia for a submissive wife. She is NOT allowed to show statistics comparing foreign wife deaths to natural borne American wife deaths. She is NOT allowed to show happy married couples. She must find sex tourists and show how they are typical of the guys who travel to the FSU.

Just my two kopecks,


Bill

PS. I honestly hope I am wrong, but its not possible for her to do this.

Hi Bill,

Well, I'll say again that I understand your skepticism, but I disagree that there are no feminist accounts that do not twist this into a story of sinister men. We've mentioned before here Nicole Constable's book, for example -- she is a feminist and goes quite far towards fighting many stereotypes. (Granted, she is talking primarily about Filipino and Taiwanese women and American men, but the general issues at play are similar, I believe, if we are talking about the negative perceptions of the American public at large.) I'd be curious to hear whether you thought you account was fair, and/or whether you would think of her as a "feminist" since her account is not negative.  I do agree that *many* feminist accounts -- especially those that circulate in the policy world -- are one-sided and do not capture the human perspective of men who are looking for women abroad.  So, I will do my best to write in a well-rounded way that reflects something of where you all are coming from.

j.

[jen]

Years ago a popular womens TV show, "The View" did a show on MOBs.  They (the AW on the show) desperately tried to find faults with these foreign relationships.  First they attacked the men going over as losers and then the RW as green card whores and finally they tried to make it sound as though the men were just buying a housewife and cleaning lady.  It had to be the most unbalanced show I had ever seen.
KenC

KenC, do you remember how long ago this was? I wonder if there is a way to get a copy because I'd be curious to see it. I did see an episode of Montel Williams several years ago that was very much the same...

[jen]

Ken,

Elena is not even here yet and I am getting extremely rude comments about the whole deal.  I guess many of my friends were not sure of my sincerety and subsequently left their opinions reserved.  I have been very open about my visits to russia and the purpose of those visits.

I almost started another thread about the rudeness and crudeness I received Saturday night at a large social gathering.   Some of the woman (not all) were already insulting Elena - sight unseen.  These are wives and GF's of aquaintences of mine.  Many of the men are giving me suggestions of prenup and already have us divorced as soon as she gets her green card.  I'm in a small area as far as population goes - only about 40,000 people in the area.  So this means many of "us" know each other over the years.

I was having drinks at a bonfire at a friends camp and some of the women got me to a point that I said I was tired - and called a taxi.  Not only were they rude to me, but they were just rude in general to their own husbands.  The crap that comes out of their mouths is shocking.  It's like they want to be one of the boys.

I can only imagine what will happen once Elena gets here.  I know there will be some people that I will kick out of my life.  I think Elena will handle herself great - but I am not so sure how I will handle myself if I overhear some woman insult her.  I think there is going to be an adjustment period with a switch of "friends."

Don't get me wrong - I have many friends both men and women that I know will welcome Elena with open arms and go out of their way to make her feel comfortable.  I am referring to the "Some people" that I am unsure about.

Hi Maxxum,
This actually gets to the next question I wanted to discuss, so I will go ahead and start a new thread. Please post your stories there if you'd like to...I will quote you over there, hope that is OK.

j.

[KenC]

Maxxum,
Too late now for you, but I didn't tell everyone what I was up to when I went to meet Lena in Russia.  In fact, I really only told the true and complete story to a very close female friend of mine.  She knew that I had met many an AW on line so that wasn't much of a shock to her.  The best answer I could have imagined was when I asked this friend if I was crazy to go meet Lena?  She told me I was only crazy if I didn't go!

My ex had a funny comment to my daughter.  She asked "How is your father's Russian adoption going?"  My daughter responded, "just fine and I think Dad is going to go for a boy the next time!"

Like anything out of the "norm" people will not understand what it is that you are doing with a RW.  Many will hope and predict failure for you.  Prove them all wrong and live happily every after!  After almost 8 years of marriage, I am sure there are still some doubters out there on our situation too.  Whatever!
KenC

[KenC]

KenC, do you remember how long ago this was? I wonder if there is a way to get a copy because I'd be curious to see it. I did see an episode of Montel Williams several years ago that was very much the same...

jen,
I am guessing that it was 3 to 4 years ago.  They had an agency owner and his Russian wife on.  I think it ws the guy from AFA.  He was articulate but wasn't allowed to say too much as Star was all over him and his wife.
KenC

[KenC]

Hi Bill,

Well, I'll say again that I understand your skepticism, but I disagree that there are no feminist accounts that do not twist this into a story of sinister men. We've mentioned before here Nicole Constable's book, for example -- she is a feminist and goes quite far towards fighting many stereotypes. (Granted, she is talking primarily about Filipino and Taiwanese women and American men, but the general issues at play are similar, I believe, if we are talking about the negative perceptions of the American public at large.) I'd be curious to hear whether you thought you account was fair, and/or whether you would think of her as a "feminist" since her account is not negative.  I do agree that *many* feminist accounts -- especially those that circulate in the policy world -- are one-sided and do not capture the human perspective of men who are looking for women abroad.  So, I will do my best to write in a well-rounded way that reflects something of where you all are coming from.
j.

jen,
That is all we can ask for.
KenC

[ecr844]

KenC, do you remember how long ago this was? I wonder if there is a way to get a copy because I'd be curious to see it. I did see an episode of Montel Williams several years ago that was very much the same...

Perhaps these will help:
http://www.russian-mail-order-brides.net/information/media.shtml
http://www.tv.com/the-view/show/1676/episode_guide.html?season=0&tag=season_dropdown;dropdown;12
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mail-order_bride

[Wayne B]

Ken C, Tiger and David......Some of my best friends did not even go to our wedding.....did it hurt my feelings yes, very much....and I still haven't spoke with them on the phone....when we used to speak every week.....I could see their wives maybe having a negative influence on them not to attend our wedding....but, then I question why....why not a phone call to say they could not attend the wedding   Or a phone call after...saying we are sorry that we missed your wedding....but, instead 'Nothing'    It has been a month or more....

[TigerPaws]

Wayne B,

 I would like to say that I am surprised but I am not, if I were a betting man I would be willing to invest some money that it was the wife's and not the men. If you are interested enough call the men up at work and ask them directly, you may get an honest answer.

As I have already said your friends and aquantances will change, sad but true.

TigerPaws

[Makkin]

Hey Wayne,

  "Damn Shame" your so called friends acted that way and not coming to your wedding.

  Your a good man so no worries right?

Makkin

[jen]

Perhaps these will help:
http://www.russian-mail-order-brides.net/information/media.shtml
http://www.tv.com/the-view/show/1676/episode_guide.html?season=0&tag=season_dropdown;dropdown;12
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mail-order_bride

thanks!

[IAmZon]

I have little experience to contribute on this topic, but to me, very compelling.

In the City of New York, I have felt no negative perceptions when with Russian Women.  But that is New York.  You have to pay to receive a perception.

When I was vacationing in a "normal city" - St. Petersburg, FL, with my Russian girl friend  (This is my home and I feel more than accepted here.  It is big enough that you can not know everyone ... but from living here, I always feel very comfortable and treat everyone as if we have a familiarity),  I was AMAZED at how differently I was treated!

From the waitress at the Waffle House to the valet at the Vinoy, there was a "your not from 'round here" ignorance that I previously only had felt in Macon, GA; and High Point, NC.

It is strong.

And the remarks from my friends and their wives have mixed - the men are envious; their wives are "cool and thorny". 

I like to think that people reveal themselves through life ... sometimes we think a person to be a friend, then a life experience shows them to be something other.  How is at fault?  The person who mistakenly bestowed friendship ... the person who declined friendship ... both / or neither.

[TigerPaws]

And the remarks from my friends and their wives have mixed - the men are envious; their wives are "cool and thorny". 

Very diplomatically sad sir, well done.

TigerPaws

[Wayne B]

Hey Wayne,

  "Damn Shame" your so called friends acted that way and not coming to your wedding.

  Your a good man so no worries right?

Makkin

  Makkin, no worries but, the majority of the friends that did not 'show' were also the ones that said....we better get an 'invitation'  :noidea:             Makkin, how have you been doing.....or you still thinking of making a trip to the FSU?  How are things in the small city    

[DKMM]

I to am experiencing the "friend shift" and its kinda sad how it reflects on people's lives really.  The ones that are really happy for me are the friends that are happily married (even their wives are excited to meet her).  The people that are less than optimistic are the ones that are single AW or men not happy in general about their lives. 

Its all jealousy because they know just how happy we'll be and they can't do what we are doing.

[ScottinCrimea]

It's interesting to see how people react. When I made the decision to choose my wife it broke the heart of an AW who had her heart set on me.  But even after I moved to Ukraine, this woman chose to continue to correspond with me as a friend.  We had bonded because she had a cancer behind her eye and I had used my connections to get her set up with the best clinic on the West coast and been there through her surgery.  She had also been there for me through some issues that I was going through at the time.  She proved to be a true friend because she was able to put aside her personal wants and wish only for my happiness.  We got together again this past week and her comments to me afterward were that she saw how much I loved my wife and was happy for me.  That is a true friend.  Anyone who has anything but the highest hopes for your happiness does not deserve the title of friend and it is no great loss if they fall by the wayside.

[KenC]

I to am experiencing the "friend shift" and its kinda sad how it reflects on people's lives really.  The ones that are really happy for me are the friends that are happily married (even their wives are excited to meet her).  The people that are less than optimistic are the ones that are single AW or men not happy in general about their lives. 

Its all jealousy because they know just how happy we'll be and they can't do what we are doing.

DKMM,
You can be happy now and you can hope to be happy in the future (as we all do), but there is no way to know how happy you will be in the future.  You have a long long road ahead of you.  Too long to be predicting anything yet.  And why can't they do what you're doing?
KenC

[DKMM]

In this case the "we'll be" in my sentence was us men on this board.  People are jealous of you and I Ken because they don't have the same opportunity in life. 

Try to imagine never being able to go meet Lena and how jealous that would make you of happy people out there (as I'm sure you'd be less happy now if you didn't have her).

[catzenmouse]

In this case the "we'll be" in my sentence was us men on this board.  People are jealous of you and I Ken because they don't have the same opportunity in life. 

Try to imagine never being able to go meet Lena and how jealous that would make you of happy people out there (as I'm sure you'd be less happy now if you didn't have her).

Anyone who is not happy with themselves as they are has no business even considering a foreign wife. I seriously doubt that KenC would be jealous of anyone's happiness. He would be happy for them just for being happy!

DKMN, you really seem to have a lot of issues that need to be taken care of before you propose to any more FSUW. Your thinking it really very skewed in a way that is not going to become a successful future life.

On Topic:

 I did not hide my looking for an FSUW at all. I had pictures up in my cube at work of the ladies I was writing to and any time an AW challenged me I told her flat out that I was looking for everything that she wasn't. Plenty of 30 - 40 plus women were highly pissed at me because I was not going to play their game anymore.

 I never went in for a lot of "friends" so the ones that I know are my friends were and are very happy for my happiness.

Ken

[KenC]

In this case the "we'll be" in my sentence was us men on this board.  People are jealous of you and I Ken because they don't have the same opportunity in life.

First of all, if you are doing this to make othersjealous, you are more doomed to failure than I originally thought.  Secondly, almost everyone does have the opportunity  to do this.

Try to imagine never being able to go meet Lena and how jealous that would make you of happy people out there (as I'm sure you'd be less happy now if you didn't have her).

First of all, if I had never met Lena, then I would never know what I missed.  Secondly, I am never jealous of other peoples happiness as it usually has no correlation to my happiness.

You are one messed up Dude, DKMM!   :selfharm:
KenC

[DKMM]

Hello, the question was about AW being jealous no?

Man you guys have a strange way of twisting my meaning around.  First of all, i'm saying that those jealous old AW and guys that are stuck in unhappy marriages are the ones that are jealous.  Where do you get such crazy ideas from that I'm suggesting KenC was jealous?  My point was that if you were without this chance like a cranky old AW, you might be jealous too.  (which is an impossible hypothetical scenario).

And how did you take what i wrote to mean I'm marrying a RW to make other's jealous? 

I'm beginning to question both of your capabilities to comprehend written words.