What age would be preferrable to RW?

[I/O]

But, JB, be ready, I/O will ask you for the proof of that! If there is no proof it is all nonsense...Or maybe he won't ask you for that, because you are an American man, respected member and have lots of years of wisdom, as well as KenC and others here.........but I, well, I don't have any grounds even voicing this opinion, how can I dare!!!, know-it-all and impudent......

Anastassia: We have a saying down here...."The guilty run where none pursue". You would do well to familiarise yourself with the meaning thereof. Where did I say you were a know-it-all? I actually suggested that you didn't know it all and are stretching assumtions to suggest they are facts.  I am still suggesting the same thing as your above post indicates. Where did I suggest you were impudent? Proverty seems to be something you have an aversion to if your comments here are any indication. Why wouldn't I ask an American Man to justify his opinion if it appears flawed? Strange comment.

What I find objectionable and particularly misleading is blanket statements that X=Y without substantiation.  I happen to think that older guys are mad to go seeking younger women, although it does sometimes work. I think you bit off something you couldn't chew here and have resorted to a few jabbs to keep raising the issue. It would be similar if I came out and said yes an age gap relationship WILL work.....I have no broad evidence, other than, ironically enough, the two guys you cited in the above.

Anastassia, I am not entirely surprised, however I am somewhat disappointed as I thought you capable of a much better rational debate.

I/O   

[jen]

Hi all,

OK, I see the discussion on age differences has been separated off onto its own thread, which I guess was a good idea. I originally asked the question about age differences because the thread on what RW were looking for had drifted into the topic of the chances of younger vs. older women to find an interested AM. Thus I was curious to hear from RW about the flip side of that question: what do RW prefer or what are they open to when it comes to age difference with their potential partner?  That question was taken up for a while, though more time has been devoted to discussions about whose conclusions about the age gap issue are based on what and whose is more valid. That's OK by me, but again, I find it useful to hear everyone's views, and seeing that there is some diversity there is important.

thanks, J.

[KenC]

Look people, let us all be honest for a moment.  Men will always be attracted to young women.  PERIOD!  Why do AM marry young RW?  Because they can!  How much of an age difference is acceptable?  Who the hell knows?  If the marriage is happy and strong, then it wasn't too much, was it?  No one really knows if their marriage will be successful until years into it.  All one can do is as much risk management as possible.  The bigger the difference in age, the assumed bigger risk in the marriage.  If a couple is entering into a large age difference marriage, they had better have all the rest of their ducks in a row.  No short term romance and quickie wedding.

Eight years ago Lena and I took a calculated risk and got married.  So far so good.  What makes it work for us?  I would guess that we have such a strong bond of love and mutual respect for each other that over comes the hurdles of any age difference.  I do not see marriages very often with the kind of bond that we share (regardless of the ages of the couple)

I have a very good friend that has been married 3 times to AW.  Every woman he married was 19!   His first 2 marriages were rather short term jobs, but his last, when he was much older than his wife has been rock solid.  They have 3 beautiful children and have been happy for many years together.  Go figure that the first 2 were busts when he was more "age appropriate" for his wife.  I guess you could say that 19 is the age of woman that he finds himself attracted to.  Come to think of it, my first wife was younger than Lena when we married too!
KenC

[KenC]

Hi all,

OK, I see the discussion on age differences has been separated off onto its own thread, which I guess was a good idea. I originally asked the question about age differences because the thread on what RW were looking for had drifted into the topic of the chances of younger vs. older women to find an interested AM. Thus I was curious to hear from RW about the flip side of that question: what do RW prefer or what are they open to when it comes to age difference with their potential partner?   That question was taken up for a while, though more time has been devoted to discussions about whose conclusions about the age gap issue are based on what and whose is more valid. That's OK by me, but again, I find it useful to hear everyone's views, and seeing that there is some diversity there is important.

thanks, J.

jen,
You need to keep a couple of things in mind here.  #1 Most of our wives do not post here, so the large age difference marriages will be represented by mostly men posting.  My wife, Lena does post on RWD, but is rather selective of where she participates.  #2 Most of the vocal female opponents to age gap marriages are not in a large age difference marriage, so their views are different from those that are.  #3 For every man posting here (in a age gap marriage) there is a younger wife that must have not thought it was so bad.  Heck, Lena has put up with me (and me with her) for eight years and counting!
KenC

[WHHatton]

Look people, let us all be honest for a moment.  Men will always be attracted to young women.  PERIOD!  Why do AM marry young RW?  Because they can!  How much of an age difference is acceptable?  Who the hell knows?  If the marriage is happy and strong, then it wasn't too much, was it?  No one really knows if their marriage will be successful until years into it.  All one can do is as much risk management as possible.  The bigger the difference in age, the assumed bigger risk in the marriage.  If a couple is entering into a large age difference marriage, they had better have all the rest of their ducks in a row.  No short term romance and quickie wedding.

Eight years ago Lena and I took a calculated risk and got married.  So far so good.  What makes it work for us?  I would guess that we have such a strong bond of love and mutual respect for each other that over comes the hurdles of any age difference.  I do not see marriages very often with the kind of bond that we share (regardless of the ages of the couple)

I have a very good friend that has been married 3 times to AW.  Every woman he married was 19!   His first 2 marriages were rather short term jobs, but his last, when he was much older than his wife has been rock solid.  They have 3 beautiful children and have been happy for many years together.  Go figure that the first 2 were busts when he was more "age appropriate" for his wife.  I guess you could say that 19 is the age of woman that he finds himself attracted to.  Come to think of it, my first wife was younger than Lena when we married too!
KenC

Thank You KenC 

[Lit_1nce]

What you look for is not necessarily what you find, and what you want is not necessarily what you get.

I remember years ago reading a forum, and there was this "formula"... half your age plus 7 years.. as the minimum. Pretty scientific ehh ?

Well I met an FSU woman, and she was 6 years younger than me, and at the time it worried me a bit.. but that relationship not working out had nothing to do with age.. can you imagine my surprise after worrying about a 6 year difference, when my next relationship was with someone 18 years younger than me ? ... and you know what, the end of that relationship had nothing to do with the age difference either !

I never looked for someone significantly younger than me, it just what the universe provided. In my current search I am still looking for someone closer in age.. what actually happens, is up to fate.

Dennis

[WHHatton]

Honestly I do not understand why some people have a problem with anyone's relationship based on their age difference, when I started looking for someone from the FSU I never even considered a girl unless she was in her mid 20's and less than 30 and I was 40 when I started looking.

I met many, many girls and all of them were at least 10 plus years younger than I was and when all was said and done the woman who became my wife is 21 years younger. So what? We are happy, our relationship is stronger now than in the beginning, what else could a man ask for.

[Turboguy]

I can recall a very long discussion in Thailand with VWRW to where I was trying to convince here that her age was not a factor in my falling in love with her.   I was unable to convince her and finally gave in so I sure won't try with to persue that argument with those here.

I think there are some women who are attracted to, want and prefer an older man.   I think there are others whose idea of age difference they will accept is based on need.    Lets say they are 30 and they may start off looking for a guy to 40.   With maybe 5-10% of the women looking for a man abroad finding one if they don't have luck they may move the search up to 50.    If they still don't have luck, well 55 or 60.   Lily started off with one idea and then said something about being more open on age difference.   I think she might be a case where this applies.   She however will be a great catch for whoever she ends up with. 

I think there may be others that do it the other way.   The start off open on age and when they find a lot of good candidates they find they can be more selective.

Some of the things that make me feel this way are I noticed with I was in the searching stage that i would see a profile I liked and look at the age she specified and perhaps it would say to 45 or 50 and I would say, well, I like her but I am not what she is looking for and I would go on to the next profile and then 3 or 4 weeks later I would get a letter from her where she was approaching me.    I think it is a blending of our dreams and the reality of our situation.

I have seen it work the other way.   I had been writing to one very beautiful gal who really did have a tourist visa to the USA and was going to be spending the summer visiting her brother a 3 hour drive from me.   She started off with a fairly high age she would accept.   We were writing hot and heavy every day for a while and I noticed she chopped her max age from whatever it was to 40.   I quit writing her.   I just made my own choice that if that was what she wanted I did not fit.  I think it was a case that as she learned what kind of guys she could attract she focused more on what here real interests were.   

[AnastassiaAsh]

Where did I say you were a know-it-all? I actually suggested that you didn't know it all and are stretching assumptions to suggest they are facts.  I am still suggesting the same thing as your above post indicates. Where did I suggest you were impudent? Proverty seems to be something you have an aversion to if your comments here are any indication. Why wouldn't I ask an American Man to justify his opinion if it appears flawed? Strange comment.

Well, I didn't say that it was YOU who said i was impudent and know-it-all, others did. And that's not even the point any more. What ever.

The point is that when KenC says the same thing that I said, you didn't ask him for the proof, but before that I got showered with Where is the proof! or 'You don't know what you are talking about because you haven't been in such a relationship'. Just because KenC has more years of experience and credibility than I do doesn't mean that people here can say that i am wrong while my message was exactly the same as KenC's. Or maybe somebody is hurt so much to see that a young woman as i am is smart and experienced enough at her age to come to the same conclusions as others at 40-50 or 60...well, i am not sure, it is total discrimination.
KenC, Turbo, I/O - i never meant to insult you or anything like that...

The same way i can say that it seems to me that it is absolutely crazy for a woman who doesn't know English at all to do this (and there are even those princesses who say that they won't even start learning it but would want their man to learn Russian!). And i think that there are more successful marriages with the knowledge of English than without. Isn't that realistic and reasonable? Or would you ask me for the proof of that too? 

[groovlstk]

Part of this issue has nothing to do with hangups anyone might have about age differences. Minus the preaching and passionate arguments, there is enduring value in warning a new guy to keep his expectations realistic and not go into this endeavor expecting to land a woman young enough to be his daughter... It's very difficult to balance the agency BS - "Russian women love older men!" (and the fact that there are several strong marriages between people w/large age differences represented on this board) with the stark reality. Even if you make a strong connection with a younger woman, even if she truly loves you, even if you have the patience of Job, there are challenges that are unique to your situation. Pursuing FSU women is inherently treacherous and each additional element of risk you introduce to the equation (e.g., large age differences, inability to communicate in the same language, limited face time, etc.) stacks the odds against your success. Regardless, every man is captain of his soul and when it comes to women even the wisest seem to be willing to roll the dice; OK then and good luck, but if things blow up don't come crying here like this pathetic fellow.

And before anyone accuses me of being preachy, FWIW my wife is 15 years younger than me.


 

[Gator]

AnastasiaAsh,

You make valid points.  

I initially assumed that you wrote "I/O will ask you for the proof of that!" more as facetious sarcasm rather than defensive sensitivity.  Maybe it is a little of both.

Please keep voicing your opinion.  You impress me as an intelligent women, and your intuitive observations will be helpful to all RWD readers.

Groovlstk,

Even if you make a strong connection with a younger woman, even if she truly loves you, even if you have the patience of Job, there are challenges that are unique to your situation. Pursuing FSU women is inherently treacherous and each additional element of risk you introduce to the equation ... stacks the odds against your success.

Good post.  Deserves repeating.

[AnastassiaAsh]

Part of this issue has nothing to do with hangups anyone might have about age differences. Minus the preaching and passionate arguments, there is enduring value in warning a new guy to keep his expectations realistic and not go into this endeavor expecting to land a woman young enough to be his daughter... It's very difficult to balance the agency BS - "Russian women love older men!" (and the fact that there are several strong marriages between people w/large age differences represented on this board) with the stark reality. Even if you make a strong connection with a younger woman, even if she truly loves you, even if you have the patience of Job, there are challenges that are unique to your situation. Pursuing FSU women is inherently treacherous and each additional element of risk you introduce to the equation (e.g., large age differences, inability to communicate in the same language, limited face time, etc.) stacks the odds against your success. Regardless, every man is captain of his soul and when it comes to women even the wisest seem to be willing to roll the dice; OK then and good luck, but if things blow up don't come crying here like this pathetic fellow.
And before anyone accuses me of being preachy, FWIW my wife is 15 years younger than me.

Yes, very good post. I would add:"...stacks the odds against your success in geometrical progression!"

Thank you, Gator, yes, my sentence contained a little bit of both.

Also, i wanted to say that it is extremely hard to argue on the internet, there is no time limits, and just because you don't have time to reply will seem you gave up. If we all sat down somewhere together in real life, that would be a total different story, and i am sure people who say some things on the internet won't dare saying them in real life. I have never participated in any of such gatherings, would love to, in real life!

[KenC]

Well, I didn't say that it was YOU who said i was impudent and know-it-all, others did. And that's not even the point any more. What ever.

The point is that when KenC says the same thing that I said, you didn't ask him for the proof, but before that I got showered with Where is the proof! or 'You don't know what you are talking about because you haven't been in such a relationship'. Just because KenC has more years of experience and credibility than I do doesn't mean that people here can say that i am wrong while my message was exactly the same as KenC's. Or maybe somebody is hurt so much to see that a young woman as i am is smart and experienced enough at her age to come to the same conclusions as others at 40-50 or 60...well, i am not sure, it is total discrimination.
KenC, Turbo, I/O - i never meant to insult you or anything like that...

The same way i can say that it seems to me that it is absolutely crazy for a woman who doesn't know English at all to do this (and there are even those princesses who say that they won't even start learning it but would want their man to learn Russian!). And i think that there are more successful marriages with the knowledge of English than without. Isn't that realistic and reasonable? Or would you ask me for the proof of that too? 

Anastassia,
What can I say?  Great minds think a like!

Seriously, now, you need to look at this from a little different perspective.  It isn't your conclusion (opinion) that was challenged as much as it was your source from where you extrapolated the opinion from.  You came to your conclusions based on your experience, but how much experience do you have with failed age gap marriages?  (I don't know this answer and neither does I/O)

Forgive me for my opinion being a little more accepted than yours by some people.  Maybe it is due to my first hand experience?  I do know that I pay much more attention to some posters than others.  Not all RWD members are created equal.  I never miss a post made by people like Gator, jb, Groovisk, Jet, CaptB, Vaughn, Lily and even you!  (I would include I/O as I usually agree and enjoy his posts, but there are only so many hours in the day and the shear volume of his words can be over whelming at times )  There are other members that I skim read at best and out right ignore at worst.  (NO, I have never put anyone on "ignore" officially, but do it on my own)  But you get the idea.  It is always best to "consider the source" when reading open forums like this one.  Just because someone has the notion to post an opinion or advice doesn't make them valid or good in any way.  I do try to stick to what I know and I wish others would follow suite sometimes.  You are a valuable member here and I very much respect your opinion.  Especially when it matches mine!
KenC

[AnastassiaAsh]

Ok, KenC, thank you so much for explaining it to me and in a friendly manner!  I understand it better now. I agree there are about 20-30 members that post regularly and those that you mentioned and you of course and some others...
But back to the 'source' - that's the thing, ok of course i never was married to a man much older than me, I don't have first hand experience, but YOU do, that's the truth!

But let me make an example for you to understand what i mean. Everybody knows my first husband Lance died of colon cancer. I have been literally a professional medical nurse for him for all those 3 years (on top of everything else i won't get into now)...so as a result I know about colon cancer A LOT, much more than any other average person, starting from healthy nutrition and PH level of your urine, different stages of cancer, how cancer cells behave, how to read a blood report...and ending with the vocabulary and other purely medical notions an average man hasn't heard before ......Now, did i have cancer? NO! Do I have knowledge about it? YES! First hand? Well, depends on how you look at it. Does it make my opinions and pieces of advice in that field valid and trustful? I think so.

So project the same to this situation. I have never been married to a man much older than me. Ok. But I have talked to lots of clients/people during the years of this kind of business, I dug very deep into their problems and psycho state if you wish. I saw too many similar behavioural templates coming from both women and men, especially with a big age gap. Is this enough to believe some of my conclusions?

What ever every newbie decides to do, is his right. All I want is for people to succeed in this kind of relationship taking into consideration some apparent tendencies.

[Jazzyclassy]

      You are a valuable member here and I very much respect your opinion.  Especially when it matches mine!
KenC        

 real true and sincere statement in this thread

[Turboguy]

So project the same to this situation. I have never been married to a man much older than me. OK. But I have talked to lots of clients/people during the years of this kind of business, I dug very deep into their problems and psycho state if you wish. I saw too many similar behavioural templates coming from both women and men, especially with a big age gap. Is this enough to believe some of my conclusions?

Not for me.  It does not even come close.   I do respect you and enjoy your comments.   I still have no idea if the problems you attribute to an age gap did come from an age gap. 

You can have a university study prove about anything you want that you are willing to pay for them to study.   I think the same can apply to peoples problems.   You are primed to blame age gap for anything creating a problem in a marriage.   When you have that it is like explaining a Russian wife to a feminist.   You can talk till you are blue in the face and are wasting your breath.   

I have probably bumped into 20 or 30 couples with a sizable age gaps, some exceeding 40 years, in my time on the forums.   100% are happy.   100% of the wives seem to be happy.   100% would advise caution for someone else.    100% would do it again if they had it to do over.   I am only one person and convincing me is not important.   Really people who spend so much energy trying to make their point on this never convince anyone anyway.   

Take a second look at those age gap marriages you THINK had all those problems.   Take out the ones who knew each other a short time, had compatability issues, language issues, or married someone they did not love and see how many are left.   Age difference is usually a scape goat for the real issues that cause a marriage to fail. 

[BC]

I took a risk that has yet to pan out with a 17 year difference.. we are now 47/30..  will report when we are 60/43 and up.  Should I still 'be going' by then then hurrah.. surely wouldn't be happening if I added another 20 years on top regardless how much viagra I took.

Marrying is easy, living is tough, outliving impossible.

Don't fool yourselves.

[WHHatton]

Marrying is easy, living is tough, outliving impossible.

Don't fool yourselves.

BC,
 
Interesting comments (I like them) maybe even worth their own thread, because unless something unforeseen happens to my wife she will out live me.

[KenC]

Ok, KenC, thank you so much for explaining it to me and in a friendly manner!  I understand it better now. I agree there are about 20-30 members that post regularly and those that you mentioned and you of course and some others...
But back to the 'source' - that's the thing, ok of course i never was married to a man much older than me, I don't have first hand experience, but YOU do, that's the truth!

But let me make an example for you to understand what i mean. Everybody knows my first husband Lance died of colon cancer. I have been literally a professional medical nurse for him for all those 3 years (on top of everything else i won't get into now)...so as a result I know about colon cancer A LOT, much more than any other average person, starting from healthy nutrition and PH level of your urine, different stages of cancer, how cancer cells behave, how to read a blood report...and ending with the vocabulary and other purely medical notions an average man hasn't heard before ......Now, did i have cancer? NO! Do I have knowledge about it? YES! First hand? Well, depends on how you look at it. Does it make my opinions and pieces of advice in that field valid and trustful? I think so.

So project the same to this situation. I have never been married to a man much older than me. Ok. But I have talked to lots of clients/people during the years of this kind of business, I dug very deep into their problems and psycho state if you wish. I saw too many similar behavioural templates coming from both women and men, especially with a big age gap. Is this enough to believe some of my conclusions?
What ever every newbie decides to do, is his right. All I want is for people to succeed in this kind of relationship taking into consideration some apparent tendencies.

Anastassia,
Please do not take what I am about to say as a challenge.  I truly want to understand.
I wish you didn't skip over my original question:
You came to your conclusions based on your experience, but how much experience do you have with failed age gap marriages?

I would think that most of your clients are in the "searching" stage and not yet married.  (Please correct me if I am wrong)  The problems that I posted about, do not necessarily show up before marriage or even shortly after marriage, but are problems that show up long down the road.

Anastassia, we have members here that make all sorts of outlandish claims based on nothing but their own (sometimes misguided) "feelings."  (Like young Russian girls telling me how they would behave as a middle aged American man with money)  I call them out on this all the time, so I/O is not any different. I  also do not think you should be so offended by him asking you for your qualifications to make such claims.  With all the emotions that have been displayed here, your answering of the highlighted question was all that was really necessary.  And BTW, I/O is correct in presenting the concept that there is no hard facts to support that age gap marriages fail at a different rate than others.  So we are left with opinions and conclusions that are less than scientific.

We have a saying here that goes:  Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while.  Your opinion was not what was being challenged, just your credibility to come to such conclusions.  If you have the experience in this area, please share it with us.  Everyone has the right to their own opinion, but the group also has the right to question the credibility of that opinion.
KenC

[I/O]

AnastassiaAsh: It's a pitty you were offended with my challenge, I certainly don't feel insulted by your assertion that age gap marriages are a pisser. Hell, I am not even in one.  Your's are posts I tend to read above many others here FWIW. Your suggestion that age gap marriages will generally fail is, believe it or not, a suggestion I would generally concur with.  In fact I came into this whole caper firmely convinced of same.  However, the more I look around, the less evidence I see to actually support this thinking. Therefore, I tend to do the logical thing and adjust my thinking in the face of evidence, or in this case, the lack of evidence.

What I have challenged here is the source of information for your conclusions.

I would include I/O as I usually agree and enjoy his posts, but there are only so many hours in the day and the shear volume of his words can be over whelming at times

KenC: See below for a couple of thoughts on some of your comments upthread.

I/O

[AnastassiaAsh]

KenC, with all due respect, I think I have voiced my opinion fully on this topic and the fact that no matter what proof I will present it won't be enough. It will take me lots of hours to count all of the clients that I helped, figure out exactly the percentage of big age gap and their failure. My opinion is based on approximate estimation of my experience with my clients, hundreds of them. Big age gap relationships very rarely get to the stage of marriage, they mostly fall apart during 1-2nd stage. Of course there are many more problems that are involved on top of that too, but this one is the biggest and actually affects or originates all others in a big way.

[WHHatton]

KenC, with all due respect, I think I have voiced my opinion fully on this topic and the fact that no matter what proof I will present it won't be enough. It will take me lots of hours to count all of the clients that I helped, figure out exactly the percentage of big age gap and their failure. My opinion is based on approximate estimation of my experience with my clients, hundreds of them. Big age gap relationships very rarely get to the stage of marriage, they mostly fall apart during 1-2nd stage. Of course there are many more problems that are involved on top of that too, but this one is the biggest and actually affects or originates all others in a big way.

No offense AnastassiaAsh but you answer sounds like you have nothing further to offer except to say you know best and on this issue and the voices and experiences of other's are meaningless.

[I/O]

Big age gap relationships very rarely get to the stage of marriage, they mostly fall apart during 1-2nd stage.

Finally...!!!  This is spot on.  We only need to read around this and other forums to evidence this overwhelmingly. Now I think we are finally getting to the crux of this debate.  Age gap marriages and age gap relationships pur se' are IMO two very different things, although of course linked.

I/O

[WHHatton]

Finally...!!!  This is spot on.  We only need to read around this and other forums to evidence this overwhelmingly. Now I think we are finally getting to the crux of this debate.  Age gap marriages and age gap relationships pur se' are IMO two very different things, although of course linked.

I/O

YES!!!! 

[Hub]

Finally...!!!  This is spot on.  We only need to read around this and other forums to evidence this overwhelmingly. Now I think we are finally getting to the crux of this debate.  Age gap marriages and age gap relationships pur se' are IMO two very different things, although of course linked.

I/O

- - - - - -

Not trying to be a spelling cop here, but you keep typing pur se.  Just what the he!! is pur se?   Anything like per se?