What age would be preferrable to RW?

[I/O]

KenC,  Here's a psychological profile, no charge.  Your lack of an advanced education impacts your self esteem.  You have achieved much in spite of this, but you still feel this.  Your response is to attack those who do not agree with your views of things and those who you subconsciouslly, (or consciously) feel are your superior in either IQ, education, or experience.  You have found, through experience, that most people will back down when confronted with your bullying tactics.  When faced with someone like Jazzy who doesn't have the life experience to see what is going on, or myself, who has both the education and life experience to see through this, you become frustrated and resort to vague innuendos.

Scott: As one what's never did much of that book lernin stuff, your free profile above could be applied to me perfectly, however I have some concerns about the accuracy of your findings.  

Indulge me to explain. I admire and esteem academic achievement as I do any other form of achievement but to suggest academic education is superior to practical life education smacks of a severe lack of self esteem and therefore becomes a classic case of, when pointing the finger, there is three fingers pointing right back at self.

You cite three areas which will cause one of lesser to go on the attack, IQ, experience or education.  It is fair to say that the very vast majority of people any of us, including me come in contact with are superior to self in at least one of those three in some way or another.  Does that automatically trigger an attack? Certainly not. Therefore your analysis is somewhat flawed.

Resort to vague innuendos? Usually not. I can tolerate an idiot, but I can't tolerate an ignorant idiot, therefore if someone behaves as an idiot with me (Yes I know that is subjective) then I tell them they are an idiot and henceforth they are no longer an ignorant idiot, thus they are more tolerable.  I don't see much vague about that.

Comrade, you are placing a little too much stock in academic achievement in and of itself, which to be of any value to the individual or the wider community, must have a very practical application and the holder of that knowledge must have the practical ability to apply or articulate it.  

Your remark regarding achievement in spite of less academic education is an indicator I see among many from academia.  Does it ever occur to some that others acheive because of lesser academic education rather than in spite of that fact.  Something you would do very well to consider carefully.

Now what was the subject of this thread again?  :noidea: :noidea:

I/O

[AnastassiaAsh]

But you know that most, if not all, of your clients are AM, not RW.  In truth, your business deals with AM and their perceptions and how you influence them.  Maybe a better undersdtanding of your clients, AM, would not be such a bad thing.  This thread is talking about your opinions on the AM as well as the RW.  As a consultant, you need to have a solid basis for your opinions on both.  I sense that this is not the case.  Maybe I can help?

Well, definitely this thread alone opened up my eyes! 

[Gator]

Anastasia,

You may even agree with this.

I easily accept your statement that you have seen problems with age gap relationships. 

Will you agree that communication is the most important part of building a good relationship?

If so, will you agree that communication is not good between your clients or otherwise they would not need translation services?

Understand my point?

Please do not place words in my mouth that good communication is the answer for age gap relationships.  Communication is just one part.  The relationship must be clicking on all cylinders (e. g., aligned goals, common interests, shared values, conflict resolution, sexual satisfaction, whether the heart goes “pitter patter”, etc.).  However, without communication and a lot of time together, these aspects can not be developed and explored to the necessary depth.

[AnastassiaAsh]

Anastasia,

You may even agree with this.

I easily accept your statement that you have seen problems with age gap relationships. 

Will you agree that communication is the most important part of building a good relationship?

If so, will you agree that communication is not good between your clients or otherwise they would not need translation services?

Understand my point?

Please do not place words in my mouth that good communication is the answer for age gap relationships.  Communication is just one part.  The relationship must be clicking on all cylinders (e. g., aligned goals, common interests, shared values, conflict resolution, sexual satisfaction, whether the heart goes “pitter patter”, etc.).  However, without communication and a lot of time together, these aspects can not be developed and explored to the necessary depth.

Totally agree with you.

But the problem is that more often than not values, interests, sexual satisfaction and many other things differ in the same proportion as the age gap, if I may say so.

[KenC]

Totally agree with you.

But the problem is that more often than not values, interests, sexual satisfaction and many other things differ in the same proportion as the age gap, if I may say so.

If you stop and think about it, communication only helps identify the other areas of concern.  Without it they just go on unidentified.  Communication is the key that opens the door to all the other potential problems.
KenC
(Good call Anastassia)

[ScottinCrimea]

I/O, you missed my point entirely.  I do not praise "book lernin" above experience.  I think if you had been careful to read my previous posts you would recognize this.  The ultimate is combining education (which is learning from the experience of the greatest minds) as well as personal experience.  One without the other is lacking as all great teachers have expressed. IQ has its place as the ability to apply learning and experience and is not to be so easily discounted as you suggest.  Now whether or not some with a high IQ make this application is another issue entirely.  But I think we both agree that without the proper mental capacity, both education and experience can be wasted.  Now to value practical experience above education has its faults, as those without the benefit of the views of the great minds of history are forced to draw conclusions based on their own limited knowledge and experience.  Some can rise above this, but most do not.  I don't agree with your premise that some achieve because of lesser academic achievement.  To suggest that too much learning is bad goes against logic.
     As one who admittedly has "never had much of that book lernin stuff", you are limited in your ability to draw conclusions.  You have no idea how much more expansive your thought processes might have been if you had the opportunity to learn from the universally recognized great minds of history.  I recognize and value the ideas of those with expertise in specific areas, but without the education to back up their thought processes, I have to recognize that their views are limited to their own experience.  I have been more than willing to listen to and learn from those on this forum who have more experience and/or education than I in this process.  Where I draw the line is with those, as no doubt you have seen here, who claim more experience and education that than they have.  I may not be so bold as you as to call them an idiot, but the feelings are essentially the same.
     My point with KenC was that it was not necessary for him to become defensive and begin to bully when his self esteem was threatened.  He has a lot to offer based on his experience and has no need to strike out to uphold his manhood.  It takes a real man to admit his limitations and not feel threatened by those who are stronger in some area. I welcome his opinions about life with a RW down the road from where I am at.  He has maybe 4 years on me in that area.

[groovlstk]

Hmm, Anastassia is close-minded and opinionated? Those married to Russian women should have already come to terms with this sort of stubbornness 

These age-related threads always seem to evolve into bile and personal attacks. I have a theory about it, could be hogwash but here it is:

Guys who marry women much younger than themselves have to deal with the double-takes from strangers when walking down the street with their wives, the occasional snicker from teenagers, and the knowledge that, when meeting new people, the first thought running through their heads is "he must be rich and she must be desperate." This can be really frustrating since most of it's unspoken, and there's nothing much to be done about it. New guys who are dating FSU women with big age gaps take note: if you hope for public approval of your relationship when she joins you, you're in for a world of frustration. If you can't handle such heat you may as well give up now, you'll never have peace.

Anyway,  in a forum like this it's easy to gang up on someone like Anastassia, who's opinion on age differences pretty much mirrors society's. She becomes a symbol for all those people who stare at you in restaurants, the younger guys who flirt with your wife because they assume she didn't marry you for love and may be available for hanky panky.

FWIW, I don't agree with all of what Anastassia says but anyone involved in this pursuit should know there are very few absolutes about what works and what doesn't work, and dealing with amateur psychologists, naysayers, and nosy Parkers is something we all have to come to terms with. 

[ScottinCrimea]

Anastassi, I think in every case, your clients are using your services because there is a communication gap.  What is your experience with those couples who dont have an age gap IN ADDITION TO an age gap?

[I/O]

My point with KenC was that it was not necessary for him to become defensive and begin to bully when his self esteem was threatened.  He has a lot to offer based on his experience and has no need to strike out to uphold his manhood.  It takes a real man to admit his limitations and not feel threatened by those who are stronger in some area. I welcome his opinions about life with a RW down the road from where I am at.  He has maybe 4 years on me in that area.

I guess I continue to wallow in my non academic ignorance because I fail to see this so called bullying.  Scott some of your post is rather condecending to say the least and I smile just the same way as I smile at those who work for me and are far better educated than I am.  BTW, I never knock education.  If I hadn't been so lazy years back I might have gone further than a couple of years of college before I decided WTF, I am out of this sh!t, I'm going off to make a couple of dollars and do what I want to do.

For those who don't like the style in which some posters put their point across, there is simple solution, don't read those posts. 

I/O

[KenC]

Note to I/O:
Accusing me of being a bully is a hot button word that our resident Einstein learned from that other great mind: Jazzy.  (You gotta love it!)
KenC

[ScottinCrimea]

"I smile just the same way as I smile at those who work for me and are far better educated than I am. "  Just the way I smile at you and I'm sure those that work for you do.  The good thing is that we are all smiling.  . As long as we understand that we can both learn from each other's experience/education I don't see the problem.  We all have something to offer. (even Jazzy)

[AnastassiaAsh]

Well, in general, those who don't have a big age gap, have much much more in common, there are less misunderstandings, mostly they need my help with 3-way calls, documents transaltion and things like that. They don't really have big relationship problems, and I act more as a translator than an adviser. On the other hand I face too many situations when he is 45-55 and she is 20-23, with a prescheduled call me and him call her and she says: Oh, i have just did my nails, call back tomorrow!" or when she talks to us on her cell phone simultaneously walking outside with other several very loud and I won't be surprised drunk men, not reacting adequately, as if the conversation is between a blind and a deaf...

[Turboguy]

Anastasia wrote,

That is not what VWRW said. Anastassia, you drew criticism from a few here because you expressed an opinion as if it were gospel.

Anastassia I think Gator's last two posts have been outstanding.  You probably are a smart educated woman.  However, we do think you are wrongly biased about the age difference thing and that you were very wrong in your statement that was basically you were as sure as there is a God that an age gap relationship had less than a million to one chance.   It is foolish when we see so many relationships here that overcome the large odds and do work.

I have always noticed that people are very influenced by the things they go through in life.   If someone has a marriage and their wife cheats on them when they look for the next woman, a faithful woman will be one of the highest things on their list.   If someone is married to a woman who is insanely jealous they will look next for a woman who is very trusting.   I think in your case even though you have never been married to an older man you have gone through some of the trauma that a woman marrying an older man will likely face someday and perhaps that has clouded your judgement.   Perhaps you care about people and the thought that the women may go through several years at the bedside of a sick husband and watching him die makes you overly sensitive to these issues.    Anyone getting into this kind of relationship makes choices and takes their chances and you should also be aware that choosing a younger man does not provide 100% insurance against these things happening.  

Personally I think you advice to a Russian woman moving to America about how to adapt to life here may be beneficial.   I am not so sure that anyone's advice is worth very much when it comes to relationships.    My only experiences with this was two series of sessions with marriage councilors about the time of my divorce that seemed about as worthless as anything could be.    I think people in a relationship that is not working often look for scapegoats and easy outs.   Things to blame rather than taking the responsibility themselves.    I am sure if you heard Mirror's story about her relationship it would be totally different than Wiz's.   Age difference is an easy scapegoat.   Oh, this is not working it must be the age difference.

I have used interpreters but never someone beyond that status.   I always appreciated when they confirmed what I thought.   If I noticed things such as a woman beginning to strike me as a gold digger or serial dater just having that confirmation was beneficial.   I have also been through one episode where I really believe the interpreter did her best to maneuver me based on her on biases and feelings and that was not a good thing.    I do see the likelyhood of that happening with you.

Scott, Ken & I/O.   Personally I have never felt that education and intelligence were the same thing.  Education means you went to school a lot.   It has nothing to do with intelligence and most certainly nothing to do with common sense.   Henry Ford did quite well on an 8th grade education.    I do respect all you your thoughts and think you are all experienced and have good ideas.    The fact still remains that as Gator said, Anastassia tries to state her opinion as fact and it is just her opinion.

Totally agree with you.

But the problem is that more often than not values, interests, sexual satisfaction and many other things differ in the same proportion as the age gap, if I may say so.

Anastassia,  This comment shows your inexperience with age gap relationships.    There is a lot you don't understand because you have never been in one.  Those things can happen with any relationship regardless of age and depend more on the personality of the person and much less on age.   Truthfully in the first few weeks of an age gap relationship you may notice the age difference but after a few weeks she is just who she is and he is just who he is.   The aren't that young woman or that older man that all passes with familiarity.

[ScottinCrimea]

Note to I/O:
Accusing me of being a bully is a hot button word that our resident Einstein learned from that other great mind: Jazzy.  (You gotta love it!)
KenC

Sorry, KenC, but I learned this from you: "To me "bullying" someone is to berate them, call them names, make unfair conclusions about them and put words they never said into their mouth.  You Sir, are the master bully here.
KenC"

[I/O]

Turbo: I have the feeling that you missed my point way back to an extent.  I am NOT an advocate of age gap relationships.  I am presently (And hopefully for a long time to come) in one which is quite a deal less of a gap than many, but there is a lot of issues in such a relationship that many would do well to avoid.  My challenge in this thread has simply been about the evidence base.  Nothing more.

I/O

[vwrw]

 They don't really have big relationship problems, and I act more as a translator than an adviser.

You act like a translater, not adviser...maybe that is why they don't have big relationship problems

[Turboguy]

Yes, I/O, I have noticed that you were asking for proof of what she stated as facts and not advocating age gaps.    I really don't think anyone here is PROMOTING age gaps as much as we are disputing the way some things are presented.    Yes, I have a large age gap and I am quite comfortable that it will work for VWRW and I but I think it is more who we are as people and how well we fit than other factors.

Anastassia.   Your expample has nothing to do with age gaps.  It has to do with a young an insincere woman.   The man on the phone could be 30 just as easily.   

[ScottinCrimea]

Anastassia,  for the record, I am pretty much in agreement with what you have expressed.  Age difference is a key issue and cannot be ignored.  Ultimately, there are more failures than successes where the age difference is significant and you would be irresponsible to suggest otherwise.  You are in a tough situation when you find these couples because, while you don't want to discount the possibility of there being a happy ending, you also want to provide the benefit of your experience with these situations. At the point in which you come in conact with these couples, the "damage" has already been done.  I think if you were to advise a man new in this process you would advise against a large age gap, but where they are already communicating, you have to think about both your impartiality as a translator and your duty as a consultant.  I don't envy you.

[AnastassiaAsh]

"I smile just the same way as I smile at those who work for me and are far better educated than I am. "  Just the way I smile at you and I'm sure those that work for you do.  The good thing is that we are all smiling.  . As long as we understand that we can both learn from each other's experience/education I don't see the problem.  We all have something to offer. (even Jazzy)

Even Jazzy? Maybe you didn't mean it to sound that way...

Yes, let's all smile! I am. 

[AnastassiaAsh]

You act like a translater, not adviser...maybe that is why they don't have big relationship problems

You are having lots of fun there with my words, aren't you, beautiful woman? 

[KenC]

Sorry, KenC, but I learned this from you: "To me "bullying" someone is to berate them, call them names, make unfair conclusions about them and put words they never said into their mouth.  You Sir, are the master bully here.
KenC"

Scott,
Kind of like when you called me a liar when I quoted your post?  When it was your words?
KenC

[Jazzyclassy]

   KenC, I only protect Jazzy in as much as she is immature in her experience in life and I respect that and don't believe she should be attacked for her views on certain issiues. On some issues, as a RW currently living in Russia, her views have definite credibility, beyond those of your wife who has not lived there for 8 years.  No need to practice your bullying tactics on her.

          

Thank you so so so much dear Scott very very kind and sweet of you and I do not think that you attack Nastya , she is a nice person and I think you just gave her your opinion that is all.

Anastasia is nice person, I read her posts with interest

[AnastassiaAsh]

Anastassia,  for the record, I am pretty much in agreement with what you have expressed.  Age difference is a key issue and cannot be ignored.  Ultimately, there are more failures than successes where the age difference is significant and you would be irresponsible to suggest otherwise.  You are in a tough situation when you find these couples because, while you don't want to discount the possibility of there being a happy ending, you also want to provide the benefit of your experience with these situations. At the point in which you come in conact with these couples, the "damage" has already been done.  I think if you were to advise a man new in this process you would advise against a large age gap, but where they are already communicating, you have to think about both your impartiality as a translator and your duty as a consultant.  I don't envy you.

Yes, you cought that dilemma right. It can be very hard.

[Jazzyclassy]

    Accusing me of being a bully is a hot button word that our resident Einstein learned from that other great mind: Jazzy.  (You gotta love it!)
KenC         

Oh come on guys stop it really ,calm down all of you

Even Jazzy........

it is fine I do not care how and what people think of me , and all of you should not care, we only offer our opinion here, sharing it and we need to be friendly towards each other

come on cool it off

[Jazzyclassy]

Ken C if you think that I hate you or something, you are completely wrong

you do not know me

I do not hate people , I am just am not  of the same opinion  as you are , that is all

and the same as the other members here:)

I am so delighted , you all keep mentioning my name here in this thread , like you do not know what to do else......