Reactions of Friends and Relatives

[Photo Guy]

I don't know about the rest of you, but some of my friends and family are not exactly warm and fuzzy about the prospect of a marriage between myself and one of those, errr, 'Russian women'.

Do you have any good/bad stories to share? My sister just asked me if I have found out if her parents plan on moving in with us, should we get married. My sister is very concerned that I will be taken advantage of and assumes her entire family will certainly want to move in with us.

For those who are already married-
Have your friends and family accepted you or your new RW?
Do they tell you she is too young for you and dresses overly sexy?
 

[Journeyman]

Photo Guy,

I have been paying attention to this issue myself since 2000, when I also began to share the fact that I had an interest in possibly meeting a lady in the FSU.  In the 5 years since, only 1 person among all my family and friends have ever expressed any kind of support or encouragement.

Essentially all the "disapprovers" have shared a kind of generalized prejudice against the idea.  After talking with them individually, I always learned that they knew virtually nothing about the FSU or eastern European cultures, or about the nature of the meeting or the formation of the relationship that might take place.  

Often, of course, they come out with the phrase "mail order bride," or the notion that "she will only want you for your money," or the idea that "jeez, can't you get a date locally . . . or . . . isn't that for losers."  After a half-dozen trips to the FSU, I've heard it all.  Meanwhile, their own relationships stumble about in glass houses, plagued by a range of garden variety dysfunctions or shortcomings.

The one exception (as I mentioned earlier) is a 79 year-old uncle, who has always been the most erudite, articulate, and self-deprecating individual among the entire lot.  He has always been genuinely interested and open-minded, rather than judgmental (like all the others).  Most of the other men I have met along the way who have also been meeting ladies in the FSU have, themselves, experienced something quite similar regarding the reaction from their friends and family.  Some families have, reportedly, even virtually disowned the "wayward" man who actually married his FSU lady.  

But I would say, however, than even though the response has been 98% negative, the reactions as between men and women have been seemingly rather different in character.  The men tend to say disparaging things, either about me (What, can't get laid here?") or about the FSU women ("I heard they're all just whores).  The women seem to be reacting out of fear and anger.  It seems to me that they just hate the notion that a man would possibly bypass them in favor of a woman from "over there."  I suspect it stirs a number of feelings of insecurity and resentment -- ("How dare an American man "abandon" us American women.  Your job is to be available for us and to take care of me!").  

Even more disappointing was the reaction I received several years ago by my friends and acquaintences when I learned that my then-fiancee was a green-card girl.  I ended the relationship, and sent her back to the FSU, only to find the reaction from people (other than my closest friends and family) that I must have done something wrong, and that I was somehow culpable for the relationship ending.  Just weeks before, these same people were acting like I was out of my mind for pursing the relationship.  Before, I was "the fool," but then instantly became a villan.  Every reaction was negative, no matter what happened, no matter what I said or did, no matter what people knew, or thought that they knew.  After that, I began to withhold more and more information about my experiences from all these people.

Fortunately, over the last 5 years, I also had a growing coterie of men friends who were in a similar situation as me (meeting ladies in the FSU), and experiencing essentially the same things with the FSU ladies (good or bad), and also experiencing similar things with their own families and friends (mostly bad).  They could genuinely understand the impetus for considering the FSU as an alternative, understand the process of meeting someone, and appreciate all the in's and out's  and up's and down's involved.  Thank goodness for them.  

I will leave you with one last thought.  4 or 5 years ago, I was contemplating having a traditional wedding celebration with my future FSU bride, with a large number of friends and family attending a traditional church wedding.  Not now.  

I will now yield the floor to those "already-marrieds" who can tell you more about what they experienced after getting married.  I hope they can offer some measure of optimism, to both you and me.

Journeyman

[Photo Guy]

Thanks Journeyman,
Lucky for me, there have been some supportive people too.
My cousin and his wife are very positive and have said nothing derogatory. My parents are okay with it. My one sister and her husband say very little and seem oddly disinterested. My other (feminist) sister thinks men, including me, think only with their reproductive organs and that surely must be the case with this 28 year old Russian babe. I told her my thoughts about UW and she doesn't understand. Any number of my relatives say 'Russian', -never Ukrainian. No big deal. One dilemma is that for me to explain part of my motivation to my friends and relatives I would have to go into why AW are inferior. My one sister who is uninterested, totally leads and controls her husband. Their relationship seems to be based entirely on her guidelines and he should just be grateful to be with her. Yikes!  

So for me it is a mixed reaction by those who know me. As for people I barely know, they think Ukraine is the U.K. or who knows where.  Doug  

[anono]

my friends and family are not exactly warm and fuzzy

this made me laugh...    you can be funny sometimes, doug. i like that.

i hope this thread gets some response. this is interesting to me too.

journeyman, i also find the same ignorance. it seems a lot of americans are simply ignorant about a lot of things and the people of the FSU know it. well, actually the rest of the world in many cases. i think many ukrainians know more about america than some americans do.

some americans seem happy with their lack of knowledge of just about everything outside of the usa. i remember going to holland in 1974 and being asked if they wear wooden shoes. they were suprised to hear they have telephones and television. or that they did not sit around with fingers in dikes. wait a second you pervs...

seems to be an american pastime; "how ignorant can you be about almost everything outside the usa"?  and then there is the local ignorance, as evidenced by the thread dealing with bi-sexuals and homosexuals. seems anything different that what everyone else is doing is "anti-american". individuality is questioned in the usa.

my mother thinks the same thing, these young ladies just want to marry and american to get to the usa. i am sure there are some ladies who want this, but they are not the ladies i have been meeting. i shoot this down on any second meeting i have. i tell them i live here now and want to live here in the future.

my younger brother has made fun of me, but i let it go, they simply do not know.

i figure the real lesson they will learn is when i bring one of these ladies home. they will see for themselves why i have spent so much time here.

 

[anono]

Even more disappointing was the reaction I received several years ago by my friends and acquaintences when I learned that my then-fiancee was a green-card girl. I ended the relationship, and sent her back to the FSU, only to find the reaction from people (other than my closest friends and family) that I must have done something wrong, and that I was somehow culpable for the relationship ending. Just weeks before, these same people were acting like I was out of my mind for pursing the relationship. Before, I was "the fool," but then instantly became a villan. Every reaction was negative, no matter what happened, no matter what I said or did, no matter what people knew, or thought that they knew. After that, I began to withhold more and more information about my experiences from all these people.

this is sad, because it is so real.

I will leave you with one last thought. 4 or 5 years ago, I was contemplating having a traditional wedding celebration with my future FSU bride, with a large number of friends and family attending a traditional church wedding. Not now.

 
same here. might not tell anyone we got married....until way after the fact.

[Bruno]

Very interesting topic Doug...

First, i go begin mith my own case...

When i have marry my first RW, it was a big problem with my parents... they have no accept that a foreigner become member of the familly and have not allow her to visit them...

A lot of chance have appear the second year... Anastassia, the daughter of my first wife have send a post-card to my parents for Christmas... so my parents have know that they are grand-parents... So, again contact and all was right...

Because it was not more possible to life with my first RW, we have divorced... now, my own parents don't allow to visit them because they can not more visit Anastassia. For them, i am responsible of the situation... i have loose a wife that i have love, i have loose a child who was like my own child, and i have loose my own parents... and all this because a RW who have marry me only for the Belgium nationality...

Now, a other case, i know a couple who know a lot of problem... the man ( 30 year old ) is from Afganistan and the woman ( 50 year old ) from Belgium. In the begin, all the relative have say that the man have married her for the paper... since he have receive his paper and stay with her... relative attack the woman and say that she have marry these young man because she cannot more find a man here...

I know two other couple... man from Iran, woman from Belgium... man from Yougoslavia, woman from Belgium... who know the same problem... it seem that several people feel only jealousity over the situation...

Now, when i see the couple with foreigner that i know, i see more Belgium woman married with foreigner that Belgium man married with foreigner... and when i see on the internet, it is very difficult to find a site with foreign men... i need to ask them how they have know each other...

Doug, be ready to know a lot of problem with people... in the first periode, they go accuse your lady to marry you for the green card... and when she go receive it, they go accuse you to have marry her for have a young sexy wife...

Don't take care of other, they are jealous... the more you will be happy with your RW, the more they attack... but no one of the people know the hard work who was needed to make so marriage... if you are happy with your wife, it is because you have make a lot for make it happen...

Why take take care of meaning of other... it is your life and you are responsible of your life, not the other people... if you need to visit a other planet to find a good partner, it is not your fault... it is because you have not the right partner locally...

[jb]

How well your RW will be accepted by friends and family depends much upon how open or closed minded your friends and family are.  There are some people who will welcome her and others who will keep her at arms length.  Your really good and close friends will always worry about the decision to marry from abroad, that's what friends are for, to worry about you if they think you are about to make a mistake.

My wife is a very open and charming woman; strangers are enchanted when they first meet her. After people get to know her better, only then do personalities come into play.  My wife has a masters degree in physics, this is intimidating to people with lesser educations.  My wife is a math and science professor at the local college; this bothers some people who wonder how this newcomer achieved such a prestigious position.  Of course there's the physical appearance to deal with, she's not your typical tubby AW, and therefore she attracts attention, sometimes negative, from this point.  On the other hand, those who have similar educational backgrounds, and don't have some physical defect or deformity, find her to be an interesting person to talk to and they warm to her very quickly.

We pretend to be a classless society; however I've found that to be a lie.  Regardless of what is taught in school, the part of town you live in, the schools you graduated from, the age and make of automobile you drive, the trappings of success, all serve to create class lines.  It's a fact of life no matter how hard we strive to level the playing field.  Let's face it, there are people who live on the other side of the tracks who will not become my friends, nor will they ever be a guest in my home.  Not because I harbor some prejudice, but simply because we share nothing in common.  The same will likely be the case with your RW; she will make friends based on what is important to her and how much commonality they share.

Doug, this is the point I have tried to make with you, if you are a professional man, be careful marrying a shop girl who doesn't speak 10 words of English. You will not learn that you have nothing in common until after she learns English well enough for the two of you to actually hold a conversation. By then it's too late.  By the same token, a brick layer with a high school education should be careful about marrying the PhD. Because when the dust settles and the infatuation fades you may find yourself in an untenable relationship.
 

[corncrowe]

How well you're RW will be accepted by friends and family depends much on how open or closed minded your friends and family are.

We pretend to be a classless society; however I've found that to be a lie.

jb,

I totally agree with your first statement.  People who close their minds to new opportunities, changes in their lives, and changing social conditions will always be around to voice their discomfort and negative attitudes.  Foreign marriages are not new to this country by any means. 

I remember years ago of hearing stories where Italian men would send for a foreign bride in Italy.  Also it was a common practice for other foreign born men living in the U.S. to recruit a bride from their homeland.  Men living in Alaska are well known for seeking a bride from the Continental U.S., or from abroad.  When did our society become so "closed" to foreign brides?  Maybe it was less acceptable after WWII or Korea?  Who knows for sure, but it wasn't always a stigma as it is today.

As for a classless society?  I tend to think class distinction was always a myth.  We have such a disparity between rich and poor, uneducated and educated, health and welfare to make it lopsided in favor of the "Lords and Ladies" in this country.  We may not have royality as Europa, but we nevertheless have our share of "Royal" dynasties who have controlled this country for many years.

Jon

[corncrowe]

I was pretty fortunate to have friends and family who were (are) for the most part supportive of my quest, if that's what it's called.  I had a long-term relationship with one woman in Ukraine that busted my bubble for trust and fidelity when I found out she got pregnant (by accident, sure) and married the local RG.  My family never knew what happened until I discussed it with them because they had believe we were to be married this Febuary.  I got a lot of support from SIL, mom, pops, and other family members.  My friends were also supportive and didn't burn me on the spot or think less of me as a friend.

Needless to say, I have a super support network and am blessed with three children (two who live with me) that were patient when I went off the deep end.  Even my ex-wife doesn't give me any grief when talking about the ex-girlfriend from Ukraine.  Her only comment was she thought Galina was too young for me.  Wow, if my ex-wife were only from the FSU...

I do plan on returning to Ukraine later this year, after a brief layover in Holland to visit friends, and maybe I will find someone who is just like my ex-fsu (except for the lying, cheating, deceitful behavior) and be happy.  I must admit that Galina had all the personality characteristics I sought in a woman, but then there was the other side of her that "Hyde" which put a dent in my trust for FSU women at the moment.

Jon

 

[jb]

Jon,

You have succeeded in confusing me with your last paragraph.  You seem to dissagree, yet go on to prove my point.  Maybe I missed your point.

We do indeed have class lines in the USA.  We usually draw the lines based on income, which seems to be ok, i.e., low income families, middle class, upper middle class, and at the top are the rich.  However, I firmly believe these divisions are as deeply embedded within society as well. We certainly seem to grant "royal" status to grads from certain schools, such as Yale and Harvard.  These are the places we expect to see the political elites, while some of our greatest national achievements come from other well known institutes, such as M.I.T., Stanford, CalPoly, Mayo, Baylor, etc.  Yes, we have class distinctions here.

Regards certain ethnic men going back to the old country for a bride, that still goes on.  My wife and I belong to the local orthodox church, it's Greek Orthodox, but that's close enough.  All the young Greek men make the trip to bring home a bride from Greece. We see them every Sunday.

[corncrowe]

Jon,

You have succeeded in confusing me with your last paragraph. You seem to dissagree, yet go on to prove my point. Maybe I missed your point.

jb,

Sorry for the confusion.  I was, and will continue to believe that we do not live in a classless society.

As for foreign brides?  I am curious to know when it became so taboo for us to find a suitable wife in a foreign country?  It's not something that just became fad five or ten years ago.  But it seems even with more exposure there is still so much igorance when it comes to understanding the motivations, desires, and needs of AM.

Do AW resist this notion that they are not infallable?  Do AW believe that they are so desireable that AM wouldn't dare look elsewhere?  Maybe all the backlash is being driven by women who feel neglected by eligble AM?  Who reallys knows?

Jon 

[Photo Guy]

jb,
... I guess I'm not on the 'ignore list'.

I think rigid class distinctions may be more prevalent in academia than elsewhere.

My friendships are based more on characteristics like 'integrity' and honesty and benevolence. Along with those, I need to connect with people on EITHER an intellectual level or an emotional level. There are many intelligent people who are not highly educated in a formal way. Hey, if I meet a nice guy who has a great sense of humor, there's a good chance he'll be my friend. I look at romance in a similar way.

Many people, like myself, really can't be categorized or forced to fit into a particular class or generalized category. I'm basically a frustrated artist, who drives tour buses for a living. I love the arts and would like to make a living from the arts, but it has not happened yet. In the meanwhile, I make a living as a bus driver. In the context of art, I have written a comedy teleplay, three screenplays, and completed about 120 oil paintings. I can play bass guitar, guitar, and synthesizer. I've spent many hours learning all about digital recording, creating recordings based on my own compositons, and have a penchant for the abstract thinking that is useful for creating art and music. As for the bus drivers I personally know, there is an extreme diversity of personality types and intelligence levels. There's a guy from southern California who  spent a number of years doing animation for Disney. I've met drivers who were once stock brokers on Wall Street, but got burnt-out.

You can choose to separate people into little boxes or classes, but the choice, to a large degree, is yours. I don't think a stock broker should be categorized differently than a truck driver. If the 'shop girl' is intelligent, clever, and amusing, then I will be drawn to her. (and have been) An entertaining stand-up comedian could certainly be a closer friend than a boring, intelligent lawyer from Harvard. When it comes to class distinctions, I say, 'Throw them out'.  If I choose to not befriend a brick-layer, it won't be because of her class identity.

In conclusion, YOU personally choose whether or not to support the concept and implementation of class distinctions.

One of my digital photo collages:  

[corncrowe]

Here is my representation of last FSU girlfriend...

[Photo Guy]

Here is my representation of last FSU girlfriend...

It sort of matches the tone of your avatar....
The negative image is the visual equivalent of playing
a record backwards. We all know what that means...

[Bruce]

For all it is worth I have had no negative reactions what so ever from family, friends or relatives.  Prior to meeting my wife alot of people thought I was absolutely nuts, but after meeting my smiling wife and seeing us together everyone says I am one lucky guy and we are a great couple.

[corncrowe]

[user=134]Photo Guy[/user] wrote:

Here is my representation of last FSU girlfriend...

It sort of matches the tone of your avatar....
The negative image is the visual equivalent of playing
a record backwards. We all know what that means...

[line]

"I don't know if I should be telling you this."

"Why?"

"Because you might think I'm crazy,"

[line]

 

Her timeline since early last year.  Doinked the local guy

while engaged to me.  Had a baby in December.  Got married

in Feburary.  Was punched by her husband late June. 

Single again May 6th! 

 

Now I may have a negative image of her.  True, but she is

really someone to pity, not hate.  She has a new baby and the

man she chose left her because it was too stressful with the

baby crying and all that crap.  He couldn't handle all the

pressure.  What a real man!

 

So now she is like all the other Ukrainian women who believed

the lies a local dude spills.  She was stupid not to be true

and faithful to me.  But the funny part was her doctor told

her she needed to have sex because of her continuing women's

problem.  Now where have we heard that story before?

 

Jon

 

 

[mischief]

Parents and family are supposed to worry, to doubt.... to be concerned - they care about you! 

And as it was mentioned before the USA, a country of immigrants, doesn't accept immigrants easily.... amazing, but fact! Most Americans tend to forget what made their country the greatest in the world -  and That is IMPORTED intelligence, drive and hard work!  Nevertheless Am. guys don't seem to have a problem to marry women all over the globe - Asian, Mexican, Caribbean, South Pacific... LOL

Anyhow... it helps if your wife knows English.. definitely!

As for me, my husbands mother had a hard time to accept me... just couldn't understand why it was so hard for him to find a decent woman in his backyard !  LOL ... but the main problem was the age difference!  Well... now all the family and friends  bragging to everyone how talented I am and that I speak 5 languages and blah, blah blah....  His brothers wish they were never married :cool: (kidding!) and since our son was born I really miss the time without the phone calls, emails, visits from his family...

[TigerPaws]

 You need to understand that some of your friends and associates may change, the men I have associated with who have American wife's have diminished considerably mostly because their wife's are extremely jealous of my wife and uncomfortable being around her. They do not like the differences and although my lady is generally very quiet about replying to snide comments and at times out right preaching by some of the American wife's, my lady has from time to time replied with brutal truthfulness to these ladies, much to their collective dismay. So after a while these same ladies have pressured their husbands to not attend our social functions or accompany me on hunting, fishing or other activities we have enjoyed for many years.

 

[anono]

tiger, your description of some AW is spot on. and andrewfi thinks we can find a keeper in our own communities. i tried for years, all i found was one disappointment after another.

it's the attitude. it's the lack of civility. it's how you desribe them here.

doug, i have to agree with you (you post above). i have worked so many jobs, on my way up. i worked with laborers, steel mills, power companies, road and bridge construction. factories. just as i was a bright bulb in these places, there were other bright and intelligent people working there for any number of reasons. i wish i had not let my laborer's union card expire. it would be great part time seasonal work, i'd get a tan and the work out i now pay for.

i have had good relations with somewhat less intelligent women who were just fun to be with, no real challenge i guess....lol..and i have had relations with intelligent and educated women who took themselves too seriously..

but in the end, i hope my lady is just as curious and insatiable about life and everything in it as i am.

i think my family has become accustomed to my trips over here, i mean, i have spent more than a year out of the past two, so they must know i am onto something. they know when i do something, i put everything into it and go all out. the full experience. i was burned out form my business too. i tried to do everything until it got too big for me to handle it all.

i think once i bring a lady home, my family, which is all that matters, will understand why once they meet her.

other people have talked about me and my family all our lives. our last name is unusual and everyone knows it in my small village. i have heard stories about me, from people that claim to have been there, that was nothing that i was a part of. takes a life of it's own, it is so amazing.

but maybe this will help when we hear other people talking:

"great minds talk about ideas, average minds talk about things. small minds talk about other people."

sorta like thinking everyone else is landfill, very small minded.

[ConnerVT]

"great minds talk about ideas, average minds talk about things. small minds talk about other people."

You stock just went up with that quote.  I've used it many times in my life, to gauge the level of people in situations I find myself in.  You'll get bonus points if you could tell me the source of the quote -- I've always wondered.

My background is from poor middle class.  My parents were 1st (1st and a half?) generation Americans of German immigrants to NYC.  Moved out to the suburbs of NY after WWII (back when mortgages were $16K, not the $1.6M they are now).

Burlington is the home of UVM, one of the "Public Ivy" universities.  I have made friends with many of the people who have attended this college, a popular choice for those prep school folks from Greenwich, CT to combine skiing, alcohol, and academic studies.  Although I am a successful engineer and businessman, there is still a sizable 'class gap' that seems to pervade these relationships.  Talk of America being a classless society is just politically correct speak -- it really does not exist in a true form from what I have seen.

jb made a valid point of finding a person whom you can speak with.  It's more than just words, it's the ideas that count most.  My wife and I enjoy our conversations, for we can talk on equal footing about so many things.  When we met, her conversational English was almost nil.  It frustrated her, for there was so much she wished to say to me.  Today, her language has improved tremendously, due to her effort to learn and build a common language for us to share.

It's been over two years that we have been together.  In less than two weeks, we will enjoy our first year of marriage.  I have been truly blessed. 

[jb]

Great minds talk about ideas, average minds talk about things, small minds talk about other people. --Author is unknown

(however, it is oft attributed to Samuel Clemmons, alias, "Mark Twain")

[anono]

It's been over two years that we have been together.  In less than two weeks, we will enjoy our first year of marriage.  I have been truly blessed. 

simply excellent...

conner, i have this quote, along with a lot of others, written down in a journal i've kept since my first trip abroad in 1974. i might have the source, but not sure.

 

[anono]

i think jb is correct on this. i think i read the same thing somewhere.

[Bruno]

"great minds talk about ideas, average minds talk about things. small minds talk about other people."

You stock just went up with that quote.  I've used it many times in my life, to gauge the level of people in situations I find myself in.  You'll get bonus points if you could tell me the source of the quote -- I've always wondered.
[/quote]
From http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5952/unquote.html :

http://patrifriedman.com/quotes/philosophy.html says:
Intelligent people talk about ideas.
Average people talk about things.
Small people talk about other people.

Some quoters attribute it to Dear Abby, like:
http://www.donnaonat.com/quote5.htm

Many say it was a "Sign in a barber shop."
http://www.bram.net/humor-archive/1997-Oct/msg00070.html varies it:
Sign in a barber shop:
Intelligent people talk about ideas,
ordinary people talk about things,
and all people talk about other people.

A correspondent found this possible first-usage in
_Quote It! Memorable Legal Quotations_ (NY: Clark Boardman Co., 1969), p. 443:
"Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events,
small minds discuss people." Vice Adm. H.G. Rickover,
"The World of the Uneducated," The Saturday Evening Post, Nov. 28, 1959, p. 59.

According to
http://www.quotedb.com/quotes/146
and
http://en.thinkexist.com/quotation/great_minds_discuss_ideas-average_minds_discuss/166649.html it's:
Great minds discuss ideas;
Average minds discuss events;
Small minds discuss people.  - Eleanor Roosevelt

Another e-acquaintance offered:
Small minds discuss people;
normal minds discuss ideas;
large minds make them happen.


How much bonus points ? :D:D
 

[corncrowe]

Great minds invent to discuss ideas;
Average minds discuss what great minds invent;
Small minds discuss what average people are discussing.