The Survivors Guide to HRB/RLM

[Kuna]

What does this slam have to do with anything?   I think neo is from the UK

jb,

It's not a slam... it's an observation...  I don't know where neo is from because he hasn't provided that info in his member info... but I do know his focus on "money, best suite available, etc" sounds remarkably similar to a few members (who I won't name) who put too much emphasis on the economic disparity and therefore they miss many other critical factors.

Don't get me wrong... I'm not pointing out the US as the only place on earth you'll find people like that... but it is very common there.  I've spent enough time in the US to know it's more prevalent than here at least.

In Europe (and I'm not really talking about Britain) they tender to be a greater appreciation on Quality of Life rather than Standard of Living.

Sure people still want wealth and security etc but it is more often considered rude to gloat about money than in other places.

When I asked My Girl about any reservations she had about immigrating I was surprised by her response... and it's pertinent to this post.

She said she didn't want to live a life like we do in the west where we work hard just to pay off debt.  She wanted us to work hard to enjoy life.  

There's a small twist to her thought process which I really appreciated.  There's a debate going on here at the moment about people buying or building huge houses because of the emotional feeling rather than the practical need.

Simply... neo (where ever he comes from) seems to have put much weight into economic disparity and has suffered the consequences for it.

I only suggest that others that follow avoid that mistake and try to focus on more social, emotional, cultural and compatibility matters rather than financial.

(By the way... I might post something in the next few days that will demonstrate my point more clearly but for now I need to keep that private)

Kuna

[Kuna]

Kuna,  You responded to all the points that I had noticed and more and I agree with your comments.  The bottom line is that he led with his money and his small brain and when it came time to come down to earth and deal with the realities, his larger brain couldn't sustain it. It's exactly the bass-ackward way to pursue this endeavor and the primary reason why most men fail at this.  As such, it provides a good example to newbies of how NOT to go about the process and as such should be held up as a negative example, even if that may make neo uncomfortable.  We tend to create our own bad luck and the real mistake is to not recognize our contribution to it.

by the way...

jb,

This post by Scottin reminded me of his comments immedaitey after returning back to the US.  They demonstrated my point about the differences in attitudes towards money (and consumerism) and I think ALL men traveling to FSU should realise that some in FSU wil see them as foolish, or at least frivolous, if and when they throw cash around.

While I don't think I could be accused of throwing my money around when in FSU, My Girl frequently objected to my desire to take her to some of the "best" restaurants in Dnepr on my last trip.  She saw it as a waste of money.  On my last night there we went to a lovely restaurant and had a relatively expensive meal... She enjoyed it very much but she still complained about the price versus the real cost.

[ScottinCrimea]

At several points in neo's narrative he made a choice based primarily on financial considerations, for example, not moving to Paris and later not moving to Russia.  He COULD have been with his wife, but he didn't feel that the financial sacrifice was worth it.  Maybe that's a little cold, but it's true.  I gave up a lot financially to live with my wife in Ukraine.  Sure my financial quality of life decreased, but in every other way the quality of my life improved.  Ultimately it's all about choices and our priorities drive those choices.

[HiTech]

While I don't think I could be accused of throwing my money around when in FSU, My Girl frequently objected to my desire to take her to some of the "best" restaurants in Dnepr on my last trip.  She saw it as a waste of money.  On my last night there we went to a lovely restaurant and had a relatively expensive meal... She enjoyed it very much but she still complained about the price versus the real cost.

And with my lady on the 2nd trip, I experienced the opposit. I saw it has her doing things as a waist of money, just wish she had shown that trait on the first trip so I would not have had to go threw the 2nd. And for me like kuna, I enjoy going to the best restaurants so you can imagine what I see as waist full money.

Dale

[jb]

neo,

I hate "crash and burn" stories, I really do.  IMO, in my very considered opinion, the embassy nitwit who trashed your wife at her interview doesn't deserve to live, in fact, keel hauling comes to mind.  I think being drawn and quartered went out of fashion some time ago, however it would be a fitting punishment for the grief he caused in your case.

With that in mind, the "D" word comes easily to the lips of most RWs.  In the heat of a disagreement I've heard it more than once myself.  Beautiful Russian women sometimes, it seems, view a male as disposable,,, if things aren't just really peachy, he's more trouble than he's worth.  It is a part of their culture.  If you don't believe me, just have a glance at the number of beautiful young divorced women who place profiles on the internet.  They are there by the tens of thousands.  For all the love we profess for our ladies, the fact remains, a new marriage is one of the most fragile things in the universe.  Statically speaking, a huge percentage of all divorces occur within 5 years, and sooner.  And that's with couples who do not have an idiotic government bureaucrat to deal with.  Factor that into the picture and your goose was probably pre-cooked.  She may have dreamed you'd move to her country and make a go of it somehow, but you knew that was a pipe dream, said so,,, and dashed her dream.   The financial point Scott makes here was probably the last straw on the camel, had you had the ability to weather the storm at immigrations by living abroad for whatever period was required, the marriage might have survived, however, after that you were dead meat.  She may have agonized over the decision, she may have truly loved you, but I think the result was inevitable. 

Anyone who thinks they won't ever stand in your shoes is a fool.  I've been married for over 5 years to an outstanding RW, and I'm never really sure about the next 5 years.  I work at it every day, and our life is a bed of roses compared to the story you've told here.  I doubt many marriages would survive such a shaky start.   I hope you've learned some lessons and maybe some extra Russian in the process, but personally, if I were at 39 y.o.,  I'd put all this crap behind me and put my life back together.  You don't owe this board anything and unless you just love to see your entrails opened and examined by total strangers, this is a poor place to bare your soul.

Sorry it happened to you.

[BillyB]

they should deliver, if they dont deliver then something needs ot be done,

Neo, I think a lot of men have tried to take action and even contacted attorneys but after an attorney tells their client you failed to read the small print and you don't have a case, then not much can be done. If one reads the terms of agreement when signing up and if you have half a brain, you could figure out it is near impossible to meet a HRB/RLM woman unless money is flowing through them full time.

But money is not the biggest loss. The biggest loss is time and having people play with your emotions. Some girls are not sincere but a man will never know because she is not allowed to give her contact info out freely but she is willing to video chat with him all day. It's hard to distinguise what is real or fantasy there. Many guys fall in love with photos and must have a certain girl. They think they could beat the system but most always, they lose.

If a man is signed up with HRB/RLM, he is best off Googling to find the same women he's communicating with elsewhere. If she really likes him, she will write to him around HRB/RLM. IF he can't find her with another agency, he should call and straight out ask for her phone number or on video chat ask her to give out her personal e-mail since you will be leaving the agency. If she likes you, she'll do that.

If all else fails, quit the agency, one shouldn't be falling in love with a photo anyway. One may have faster and better success elsewhere. There are many more agencies and dating sites out there where the path has less resistance.

[Misha]

Neo, I think a lot of men have tried to take action and even contacted attorneys but after an attorney tells their client you failed to read the small print and you don't have a case, then not much can be done. If one reads the terms of agreement when signing up and if you have half a brain, you could figure out it is near impossible to meet a HRB/RLM woman unless money is flowing through them full time.

But money is not the biggest loss. The biggest loss is time and having people play with your emotions. Some girls are not sincere but a man will never know because she is not allowed to give her contact info out freely but she is willing to video chat with him all day. It's hard to distinguise what is real or fantasy there. Many guys fall in love with photos and must have a certain girl. They think they could beat the system but most always, they lose.

If a man is signed up with HRB/RLM, he is best off Googling to find the same women he's communicating with elsewhere. If she really likes him, she will write to him around HRB/RLM. IF he can't find her with another agency, he should call and straight out ask for her phone number or on video chat ask her to give out her personal e-mail since you will be leaving the agency. If she likes you, she'll do that.

If all else fails, quit the agency, one shouldn't be falling in love with a photo anyway. One may have faster and better success elsewhere. There are many more agencies and dating sites out there where the path has less resistance.

I can't understand why anybody would be willing to pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for a service that you can get for free. I have mentioned it before, but I will mention it again: there are many FREE Russian sites. Most of the women on these sites are as attractive (often a lot more attractive) than the women that are on sites such as Hot Russian Brides.

Here are the statistics from one free Russia site singles.ru:

Women from Russia: 568,116
Women from Ukraine: 102,747
Women from Russia online as I type: 6,736
Women from Russia online as I type 18-35 years of age: 5,812
Women from Ukraine online as I type 18-35 years of age: 297

Simply put, there are over 6,000 women online between the ages of 18 and 35. Out of these women, the odds of finding at least a dozen women that interest you and who will be interested in you: close to 100%.

[Gator]

There are many different themes running through this thread.

-   Neo makes a fairly thorough exposé of HRB and how men who run in the fast lane can get caught up in the process and spend far more money than necessary.

-   Some RWD men criticize Neo for buying his woman flowers and perfume, upgrading to the best suite, etc.   They place Neo in that category of idiots trying to buy love, a strategy that rarely works.  Instead, I saw it as a generous man, accustomed to the fast pace and to making things happen, wanting to make everything very special for a woman who had captured his fancy.  Some men are not greedy and are indeed generous.  By the way, it was her birthday, and to not give your RW a gift on her birthday is an unforgivable sin.  And Neo, at the time, presumably had plenty of disposable income.
 
-   I believe it is crazy to marry a woman so soon, yet Neo was trying to accelerate her move to UK.  That fact had nothing to do with HRB.

-   It eludes me why Neo’s relationship could not endure the difficult times.  I guess Neo became resigned that he could never get her to the UK, yet now he seems to be leaving the UK.  This story shows how a RW relationship can wreck your life even when the woman is not a scammer.  This is not a walk on the beach as those first few meetings with your beloved may mislead you to believe.

-   The idea that RW find men disposable may be true for some RW; however, in my opinion that is not the case for the vast majority.  I met many divorced RW.  Their reasons for divorce were “financial abandonment”, “continuous adultery”, “physical abuse”, “alcoholism”, “gambling”, and the like.  These are compelling reasons.  OTOH, how many AW say that they divorced their husbands because “we just grew apart”.  Never has a RW said that.  Of course, I do not have any input from the divorced RM.  Wonder what he would say?

Anyway Neo, I thank you for baring your soul.  You knew from your many years in the FSU and in reading forums that you would draw some criticism.  Yet, you did it.   Good luck with everything.

[neo]

Thanks JB and Gator for your opinion.

Scott.

You simply cannot apply the same financial reasoning that you use to every guy who is looking for a partner in the FSU.

The biggest newbie mistake i have seen over the years is that believing if you go to a country that has a poorer economic standard than the west that all the women will be happier with a simpler life and won't want to spend money.

Now, fair enough, if you go to a small town in Russia or a village you may well find a girl who is happy with a 1 room apartment and a washing machine or a girl whose idea of domestic bliss is her own tin roof dacha, a goat and a diet of borsh and potatoes but i think you would have to be blind or stupid not to walk through Moscow, St Petersburg or Kyiv and realise they are a nation of conspicous consumption.

It is much more accurate to say RW are predominatly less WASTEFUL in nature with resources than western women but to say they are thrifty is way off beam.

For example, a RW wouldn't go down the spermarket, spend 300 bucks on food to fill the fridge then throw most of it away when it goes off - that is waste and its their culture to avoid waste just as getting told off for ordering too much food in a resteraunt, but they also hate MEANESS and the biggest problem most married guys is walking that tightrope.

For example first night we were away i booked into a economy travel lodge, i got grief because it was a cheap hotel and their were no bathrobes. to make amends the next night i booked into a 5 star hotel and got even more grief because there were bathrobes but it was 300 USD a night. The notion to a RW is to spend exactly the right of money on exactly the right thing - too many men confuse that with spending nothing and so the number 1 cirticism adn cause of dissent is the mans "meaness". a RW commented to me "it was better to be with a poor man than a mean man, you know the poor man loves you, a mean man clear does not because he loves his money more than you"

So most urban russians will spend like there is no tommorrow if they have the money but they will spend it on thigns tehy percieve as value, which may include mercedes benzs and fur coats.

So you cannot generalise that a RW is bad because she wants a merc and a fur coat, and you cannot generalise that a peasant girl from the urals will make a good wife because she is happy in a tin shack. Just like America there are urban LA shoppers and there are good home loving country girls from Nebraska, and each man will make a individual choice.

"chelski" in london is home to the UK russian elite, they migrate to live in hugely expensive apartments driving hugely expensive cars eating in hugely expensive resteraunts. Scott and others may find that distatesful and bad form but their will always be people who are capitalist consumers and people who a simple life makes them happy.

My wife wasn't a country girl from the sticks, she was a city girl who had lived in the west and was well connected socially, she had all the good RW values about not being wasteful but like most pretty young russian girls she liked gucci, sports cars and lear jets.

Now that may be a problem for a lot of guys and a "red flag" but in my world a country girl from the urals would fit in as well as a cuckoo clock at a rolex convention - she is simply going ot be socially outclassed by her peers who have all had private educations and earn big ticket salaries.

And that comes back to my point, its no less valid a wall street broker going to Moscow to find a society heiress with a taste for prada than it is for scott or some other guy going to live a simple life in Crimea. We all come from diverse social backgrounds, situations and want differnet things, for some a long happy stable marriage will bring them bliss, others may think a "crash and burn" is a "fun filled rollercoast ride of emotion" you cannot tar every newbie as wanting some homeloving girl who likes to cook, because every guys needs and wants are different.


SCott, i couldnt quit everything i had built up because thats my life, i went to the FSU to find someone special to share THAT life with because i couldnt find what i wanted in my own country, it does not mean i wanted to quit my whole life for that person as hard and cold as you may find it because i could have quit "that life" for a woman in my own country, but rather like a lot of guys who are workhakolics in my country RW are very pleased to have a man who works hard for the family and supports him rather than nags him for more quality time with her and the kids.

So JB hit the nail on the head, it was a nice romantic dream for me to quit the rat race to go and live with her in a simple apartment and get a florists and start over, but we both really new that my inherent nature is to be a go-getter and live life in the last lane so i simply would not settle and i would end up resenting the sacrifice.

YOu may not agree with it, you make think that im flawed by materialism, but thats who i am and you cannot simply change your character to suit a situation.

Gator, the marriage didnt endure for the reason JB touched on, its uncomfortable reading for many, and a lot of guys will not want to accept the fact but you are right, she was 26 and i was 31 and for us both, with no kids, no joint commitments marriage was simply "disposable" when the going got rough.

We made a decision that a lot of our problems were based on our joint situation, and we could probably either go down in love in flames or exit and both come away and start fresh and go on to recover our respective lives.

Now i know for many guys the idea of divorce is abhorrant, and my attitude is a anomaly that cannot be understood, in that respect you need to not go to Russia to marry. JB is spot in in his assesment that you have to forget the agency claptrap about abusive drunken husbands whipping their wives and being abusive, Russian divorce rates are more down to a very pragmatic approach to life that

"when the going gets tough, the tough walk out"

Now a lot of RW go to the west because of the marriage security, my 25 buck divorce comment was to highlight the reality for RM and RW is that you can simpl walk out of your marriage in an hour for the price of a meal without your partner even being present. That is a horrendous insecurity for women with children.

That said, the door swings both ways. Don't for one second think a lot of cases weren't women walking out. I've spoken to plenty of RM and as you would expect their divorce reasons don't tie to the womens "unreasonable demands" or "she expects too much" or "she wont have sex any more" or "shes a bad houswife" or "ive got a mistress half her age".

my RW was happy to go because the reality was life had become too uncomfortable, she knew she was young enough that there were enough wealthy RM knocking at the door with offers that she didn't have to suffer and love came in a close second to a comfortable stress free life.

Again, critics will leap on her for being a bad RW but you cannot generalise like that because her entire family thought we should have called it a day months before and it was her persistance that we loved each otehr that kept her going.

We live in a blame culture, and so what to some may be a fair critique of a "crash and burn" is from their preconceieved notion that divorce is failure and therefore blame must be assigned, but the reality is that some things just fall apart and its a fool indeed who thinks that it couldnt happen to them because they "did everything right". how many guys come on the board and say that? "but i did everything right and she stll left" - at the end of the day we are all victims of random chance.


I am not averse to fair criticism, but i don't leabe blatant opinion unaswered and TBH a lot of the "kneejerk" responses to my initial responese were being passed off as "good advice" instead of "my personal opunion".

I/O, Scott and others, i have long since learnt not to give advice on forums because its almost invariably wrong. YOu cannot beyond the basic rules of play tell any newbie what the right or wrong way to deal with a RW or any given situation, just as its a fundamentally flawed argument to saw that no man should stay in a good hotel in Russia because it sends out the wrong signal.


Clearer advice would be not to spend beyond your situation to give a false impression of your financial status in order to attract a partner.

The second point is, just because a girl is clad in gucci, or lives an opulent lifestyle does not make her a unsuitable wife. Most of the top business guys in london now have wives from russia, they live toe excess and their husbadns are thrilled to bits with them - if you consider them gold diggers, ultra natashas or whatever i would say that exposes a prejudicial view of the wealthy and smacks of jealousy rather than any real world view of what a good RW is. I would say a RW expecting a plumber to buy her a rolex is not a good match, but i would say the daughter of a wealthy industrialist expecting a decent standard of living off a high net worth broker was simply marrying in her class.

I made a light hearted comment about my current liason being "better than my wife". I noted that someone made a nagatory remark about that and i would say generally if you want to always find the nagative you will simply see that and comment and critique it - anyone who has a positive outlook would understand every right thinking man would tell you their current partner is better than their last - who is honestly going to tell their friends or partner "you know you are nice but i really miss my ex", the process of evolution is to always imrpove and better your position and i twas fair comment to say my current liason has better qualities in some important respects than my ex wife had. Thats easy to say now because my ex wife had certain qualities that were imrpovements over her predecessor and so on down the chain, the reason for that is because with every relationship mile you learn something new about yourself and what you want in a good match and you become more discerning and less prone to choosing someone with bad or incompatable qualities. Only after living with a person some time do you see those issues so you are more atuned to spotting them earlier in your next encounter.

I'm quite happy with consdiered comment and criticism as JB and Gator have shown because it shows they have actually tried to understand anotehr guys position then looked at what they know before passing comment, in other cases i just see critique for hte sake of it that misses a lot of salient points, does not address real issues and shifts the focus more onto irrelevents that really just expose the critics own personal views or prejudicies towards a certain pre-disposed view of life.


And for the record, the most successful marriage i know of to a RW was from a guy who met her on a free personals site, broke every tablet of stone rule, flew out after 2 weeks writing, got married a month later on his second visit and the third time he saw her they were living together. He never set foot on a forum, he never even heard of a red flag and he took no advice from the experts and he has 10 years of marriage and kids to show for it.

And thats it, he made it through good attitude and having an open mind and being focused on success and not failuire, love and not cynicism and trust and not suspicion. I think everyone could learn something from him,


Ok let the flaming begin! i didnt come for a ruck but im warming up to it now since you prodded me with a stick.

As for HRB, to be totally honest - do what you feel is best with them i never really did care one way of the other, was asked, told, done - i couldnt give a flying fXXK to be totally honest and i was only trying to be helpful but you look a gift horse in the mouth its going to kick you up your ass.

[neo]

OK i'd like to make this QUITE CLEAR for newbies and board hacks alike.

Im not here to set myself up as a guru on how to marry the perfect RW or live a happy and rewarding life with 2.2 children.

You have to accept i've been a young buck for all of my decade adventures in the FSU so for some of you older guys who lead a more moral, conservative life and want to live in a fairytale world of demure virginal RW who bake cookies and look after the kids i'm going to be a horror show train wreck of a poster to your idyll.

As Bruce could probably tell you i have gone charging about my adventure like a bull in a china shop with all the tact and diplomacy of a WMD attack. I decided to go on teh adventure because as a young buck with a low boredom threshold and a high disposable income the FSU was an exciting, unexplored frontier full of adventure and excitement.

Now the caveat is that if you are a guy of a certain age then you are looking for meeting your lifetime match with a stable and happy homeloving woman,a nd good for you i hope you live happy ever after - thats not what i came into it for.

For many my marriage was a crash and burn, for my close friends and family it was yet another chapter in a unpredictable rock and roll hedonistc lifestyle fuelled by materailism work and playing hard.

I don't sit at home thinking of mrs right and the quiet life, i drop lamborghinis into ditches on gumballs, go heli-boarding offpiste, help close friends wreck 500K superyachts in meaningless races and generally live life to the max, you probably all hate me, good for you. im a symptom of a MTV Jckass generation with poor social values and a over importance on self emotional satisfaction, self reward and glorification of the utterly pointless.

TO that end i don't go out looking to meet nice home loving girls who your mom would like adn will be the perfect wife, i've actively pursued a high risk strategy of going after six foot supernatashas with smokingallova figures and a wild adventurous nature.

I cocked up my marriage because i was young enough and stupid enough to get away with it, but the reality was i loved her, she loved me and for the time we had together we had a good marriage and you can't comment on that because you weren't there.

If i had been older and wiser and stronger i would have made different decisions when faced with those challenges which is why a much older guy would say "you should have weathered the storm" but you have to accept im not that older guy!

i'm a 32 year old n'er do well with too much disposable income and too much female attention from young attractive sorts so in that respect i don't fear other peoples percieved failures because they simply lead to new experiences in my life.

Of course if she was the love of my life we would have stuck at it, made sacrifices and worked better to keep our marriage but we are not you guys and we aren't your age group, we were both and still are arrogant young beautiful things with a overvalued sense of our own self worth and importance to the oppsoite sex, we were both getting a lot of offers from other people so its easy to simply say "you should do better because 10 other guys offered me a better life" and you reply " like i care i could replace you tommorrow with younger and prettier and less annoying" - thats nasty isn't it ? but thats the product if a generation with a MTV attention span.

OF COURSE im older now, and wiser, i don't want to play the field so much or be the rebellious young thats why a guy should never get married in his 20's, you don't learn any form of introspection until you are in your 30's and you simply have no ability to look forward and value your future, its just all live for today.

So before you all decide to tear me down, you have to expect this is like "day 1 - ground zero" to me. At 33 im only just STARTING to learn what the whole process of finding a GOOD RW is all about bbecause i've spent (BY MY OWN ADMISSION) a decade pursuing a frivolous adrenalin and pelasure seeking lifesstyle and my ENTIRE 10 years was spent in the pursuit of nothing more than pleasurable time with a string of fantastically attractive RW.

So im not setting up that any of my experience means anything Bruce is right that they are just basically war stories and make a great "james bond" type read to brighten up a married guys life. I was a very naughty boy and i broke lots and lots of rules and if you followed my example it would lead to financial ruin and possibly trips to certain clinics.

So guys, dont take ANYTHING that i do or say to be an attempt at gospel or the right way to go about it.

THE ONLY THING i have BEEN CONSISTENTLY good at and able to give advice on is how to "close the deal" with a RW - i.e how to charm her, bedazzle and beguille her and use her own cultural and social and emotional expectations to win her heart.

All i have to offer is a lot of gigolo/lothario inside knowledge on what makes RW fall for you, because TB they have. and lots of them. and not because i bought them, or because i used money or tricks. i once lived with a former pro dater at her own expense but because over 10 years spent dating RW i have simply learnt what makes them fall for a guy, what charms them, what turns them off.

I NEVER set out to say I KNEW how to find a perfect WIFE, i never even set out to say that my courtship rituals would be a bible to success, all i know is how to use every trick in the book to get the girl you want.

And thats not to be the BIG I AM SUCH A GREAT WOMANISER  before you have me up for being an ego, im good with RW because i am quite a normal looking guy and i CHEAT LIKE HELL!!!!

so before you rail against me for being a hedonistc hellraiser who should be shot at dawn for crimes against the RW bride thing - just try and put my life in context for a moment, im doing what just about most guys would do in my position, and eventually i will  get to your guys age and realise what a silly sod i was and how meaningless it was but you know i might be dead before i get to your age.

A lot of guys make a mess of their first marriage because they didnt have the skills, expertise or ability to commit to make it work - usually they just arent mature enough or experienced enough to cope with the duties of being a husband. a lot of that applies to me, but you cannot expect me at 30 to be as rational and responsible about something like marriage as you guys are at 45 because im just not there yet, ive learnt a lot and thats life experience for you but i agree with the view people are too quick to JUDGE a situation rather than simply accept it for what it is.

I'm not planning to get married again probably until my late thirties. I understand they i simply don't have the ability to cope with the responsibilty yet, but i continue to date a UW because thats my prefence, she has her own career, and is content just to take our relationship at a normal pace as it comes.

The big thing i do now know is marriage is just paper and its the attitudes and motivations behind those involved that matter and not the paper, what is a failed relationship at the end of the day? does every single relationship have to last forever to be a success? or can you mark success in another way, for example the experience that changes you for the better and had you not bbeen through it would cause a much more serious problem later in life????

We didn't have kids, nobody got hurt, nothing got broken, so it was a success, we will probably both make much better partenrs to another person in the future which will benefit our kids and our partners so in thar respect its not a crash and burn but a very valuable lesson for 2 young people to learn in life.

The fact is, if i had this relationship with a AW and had met her gone to vegas etc it would have been expected and the critique would have centred around things like poor values and disposable western relationships etc, the fact i had a divorce with a RW instead of a AW like a lot of guys do has made this somehow relelvent to the process which i  don't believe it entirely is.

Whoever i married at that age it was probably likely to fail because like most people of my generation we arent read or prepared for what marriage means, the catholics used to have pre marriage counselling but most poeple i know dont focuse anything beyond the wedding. so the reality is you have to accept our "crash and burn" failings relate more to both myself and my wifes young, inexperience and general impatience in life rather than some deep meaningful critical view on the failings of western men married to RW.

I wasnt a good husband, my wife wasnt a good wife, it doesnt demean our marriage or mean we didnt love each other or anything like that and had nothing to do with the process and everything to do with our own personal character - and you cannot say she was a bad wife because she wasnt a good RW, you don't know how good ANY woman will be as a wife regardless of her character until you try it.

you simply cant rationalise a relationship in a dry clincial way because emotional behaviour is as unique to a individual as anything. So lets not make out anything more really happened than the usual human condition - because to try and rationalise ot a newbie that my marriage failed by implication of the fact i stayed in a suite at a hotel on my first visit or i used the wrong agency or some other trivial reason is really leading people down teh wrong path.

The reality is all these rules, tablets of stone, red flags and advice get you to the starting gate and nothing more - all you are really doing for a guy is cutting their risk of failure UNDER CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES but when it comes to knowing hwat motivates a woman or a man you cannot simply say he is thinking with his DXXK and she wants a green card because in every single case i have found that while people have a primary motivation their inevitble downfall is driven by their secondary or lower motivations - for example a woman might marry an older guy for a green card initially but the real reason she left him was because he was a lousy lover or very mean.

As men we are very good at being blinkered into just looking straight down our own narrow point of view, we only understand what we believe and if someone runs contrary to what we believe we dismiss it as their failing, and the reality is its own own failing in not understanding what they are all about.

With regard to some of the criticism levelled at my percieved behaviour, you want to predict the ending before you read the book, and the reality is you don't have the first clue why i do the things i do because you didnt spend 10 years in my shoes. Theres good reasons behind my decision making process and to break it down to simple bullet points of what i did wrong is laughable because you are presuming i know nothing and i just went madcap and did those things without thinking.,

For example there was a  comment about the translator being there. Translator was the wrong word but ill explain, if you play poker you dont show your hand, if you speak russian you dont ever tell people, because when people think you don't understand them they think they can talk honestly in another language and you are oblvious to itm now you enver considered that did you?

Its a dangerous business to think you know better than someone, because as the art of war states a general doesnt fight a battle until he knows hes already won, and when you are attempting to gain intenlligence on a situation you remain covert and dont make it obvious what your skills and weakensses are, the unpredictable enemy can always strike first.

You've got me pegged as some houndog out for a sniff of skirt in your response to my post, and the reality of why i can be so cavaliar in my visit to a big westernised russian city is while you were sat thinking up the great advice i was off out travelling in such fun filled tourist destinations as North Osettia, Dagestan and the lower caucaus and bribing my way into closed cities. I have travlled extensivly and independently and had AK's shoved in my face, been shot at, been detained by the FSB, bribed customs officials to the point i can walk straight ou the airport back gate and got a fake Russian driving license and citizenship

Believe me i have lived an exceptionally crazy life so behaving like the innocent abroad just doesnt really come into the equation any more.

But the simple truth at the end of the day i don't know any more than the next guy, i just live it as i see it and react and act according to whatever comes my way, im not adverse to criticism but people have rammed the paint by numbers approach to RW down peoples throat for years and i just dont see it being a success. The only way you are ever going to get into the heart and soul of a RW is to be a RW because even teh RM have not go the first clue.

I dont have any advice to offer, only experience - good bad and ugly, if that upsets you or offends you then thats your problem, if you think you know better then good for you! go out and do it!!!

I really don't have an ego that im the perfect shining example in this debacle, because im not, im just another joe along for the ride seeing which way the wind blows, i dont mind fair criticims, we can all be critical but my personal pet hate on forums is people passing off OPINION for ADVICE because thats just damn dangerous and stoopid.

I cant tell you the rights and wrongs of HRB, its for you your wallet and your mental health to decide, but i did feel able to contribute ways and means of finding out if you had been taken for a ride (to get CLOSURE) or you could salvage anything by using a private detective or ringing round some agencies ot find your correspondance (TO GET CLOSURE) or if you really should pursue HRB to get whatever you need to get CLOSURE and move on.

because the whole "run away thing" doesnt give guys CLOUSRE, and you might have sucha  robust sense of self that you dont need to get closure but the biggest problem people cannot let go is because they really cannot see that they are past the point of no return.

my goal on the HRB thread was not to navigate the HRB site for a successful long temr relationship with HRB but to figure out what you've done, GET CLOSURE and move on to a more robust way of pursuing a RW.

and for the record, ANY AGENCY THAT CHARGES YOU MONEY TO MEE A RW IS INTERESTED IN NOTHING BUT PROFIT AND NOT YOUR WELLBEING.

AND THATS ALL OF YOU.

you cannot align the wellbeing of 2 people and a business set up to earn money from meetings. it does not matter if you charge 10 bucks an address, or charge per meeting or for chat its still corrupted the whole thing. the only LEGITIMATE business model is the same as we have in the west, you join a 10 bucks a month dating site where you can exchange personal contact info, you make your own VALIDATIONS and ENQUIRIES and you arrange your own visit, because TBH every single tourist agency will cut you a better deal on your apartment, translator, gude and taxis than any agency owner i ever met.

And to that end you cannot say ANY agency that claims to VALIDATE a woman is somehow more trustworthy because its like Enrons board telling Arthur anderson "nobodies cooking the books" -

The reality is validation is meaningless. it usually involves someone checking her passport to prove her name and shes not married, and meeting her family. but whats the truth, you can buy a fake russian passport for a few bucks, and her family arent about to tell someone shes a scammer, GCG or gold digger are they???????

Fact is you are ON YOUR OWN in every single regard. you only have you, your common sensen and a sense of perspective for company in an adventure often fraught with heartbreak, fianncail dsiaster and loneliness, almost everyone trys to put their hand in your pocket to score bucsk from you, everyone has a different opinion on everything and nobody really knows diddily.

SO in that regard i've always thought trying to rationalise travelling half way round the world to meet a woman who might not be psychologically all there not that you would ever know was like hitler trying to rationalise invading the world. "it seemed like a good idea at the time" was probably his last meaningful view when he realised the mayhem that ensued.

So i dont try and rationalise, love is as good a reason as any. i dont want a newbie to fall in love with a letter, a scammer, a prodater, or a serial killer but i do desperatly hope he is lucky enough to go out to bat and get hit by lighting like i was and really feel something very strong for someone and have those feelings returned, becauser regardless on from that point even if he stuffs everything up, does everything wrong, thinks with his little brain he knows he did it because of something that actually meant something.

Id rather be a fool in love than a cynic expert.

So to that end:

A man goes to 3 experts and tells them his wife is having an affair and what should he do

Expert 1: hit him
Expert 2 : hit her
Expert 3: ask them for a threesome.

so the guy goes home, punches the guy in the face, slaps his wife and gets into bed with them and has a threesome. The guy bugger him silly while the wife phones the police and her lawyer. He comes back and tells the experts

Well i hit him so he buggered me, i hit her so she filed for battery and had me arrested and divorced me and took everything i own.

Some experts you turned out to be, i got FXXXed by my wifes lover, FXXXd by my wifes lawyer and now im getting FXXXED by the prison inmates. but the thing that really annoys me is how much ive been FXXXXd by the experts!!!!

So i'm not here to be an expert, theres nothing you can learn from me that is useful. im simply here to share as some people have asked some funny and not so funny war stories about some pretty crazy times in my life spent in the FSU. if thats not your bag then you can happilly shake your head and think "paris hilton with a DxxK" and go off and debate the best way to find a virgin in Moscow.

But for the guys who have an interest in the more crazy or adventurous end of this slighty odd sector of society we live in i hope to simply provide a bit of light hearted entertainment as a break from the dull as dishwater "process" and monotony.

You could kick back and enjoy some crazy tales with me and laugh about my often misfortune or you can go and pay some trash 10 bucks a minute on HRB to tell you what a lovely man you are

But if you want to just take every worse seriously and not read it for what it is - meaningluss fluffle and tales from travels then you should probably not read it, because its NOT a trip report, ITS NOT advice for people its just some stuff you might find funny, sad or insightful.

anyway. enough! already

[Mir]

THE ONLY THING i have BEEN CONSISTENTLY good at and able to give advice on is how to "close the deal" with a RW - i.e how to charm her, bedazzle and beguille her and use her own cultural and social and emotional expectations to win her heart.

All i have to offer is a lot of gigolo/lothario inside knowledge on what makes RW fall for you, because TB they have. and lots of them.

So you are kind of Alex "Hitch" Hitchens when it comes to FSU women?
Great, when do your classes start?

One thing I am sure of, if a man is 30, has a lot of time and disposable income, is not a total jerk and is not physically deformed (although this is optional) then he does not need to know any special skills or knowledge to make FSU women fall for his. In fact he can get similar women/fun in his own country. 

[William3rd]

So what you are telling us is that you have nothing to offer people on these boards that is constructive in the search for a russian bride.

In just 10 posts you went from the great navigator of questionable agencies to marriage failure poster child to a sex guru bragging about his money and his conquests.

You have nothing to teach me and no- I do not have to accept you as anything.

[I/O]

I/O, Scott and others, i have long since learnt not to give advice on forums because its almost invariably wrong.

Then why pray tell, did you head up this thread "The Survivors Guide to HRB/RLM" if you had no desire to give advice? Are you also saying that the advice of the ol' boys on here is "almost invariably wrong". Your logic is beyond me.

Its quite one thing to give people advice on avoidng being scammed, dealing with agencies, and tours and being in country and etiquette but bachelors telling married guys how to be married - thats a bit rich for my tastes.....

I quite agree, however I failed to notice the scenario you mention up thread.  I also wonder which category you put yourself in now? There is very many of us here in exactly the same category, that is been married and now divorced AKA Bachelors.  Many have been married much longer the 18 months.

the best way to find a virgin in Moscow.

Search the Kindagartens?

i couldn't quit everything i had built up because thats my life, i went to the FSU to find someone special to share THAT life with

Here I concur entirely. If at some future time mine wants to move country to keep the marriage together, she is very welcome to do so and keep a marriage together with someone else. Moving country for love was never my intention and is not now and I highly doubt it will be anytime soon.

shifts the focus more onto irrelevents that really just expose the critics own personal views or prejudicies towards a certain pre-disposed view of life.

Agree entirely and one of my predisposed prejudices is little patience with blowhards.

anyway. enough! already

Again I agree.  That's three times.  There is a pattern emerging.

Neo: Believe it or not I feel sincerely sorry for your experience with your former wife. I have been through the horrors of divorce and I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. (I'm not speaking of financial or material costs)

Nevertheless, you opened this thread and took a couple of veiled snipes at (Seemingly) previous combatants from other forums or boards, scited yourself up pretty well and when that didn't go over as you appeared to think it might, you went the "Woe is me" line to put a human face on it. You claim not to wish to advise, but you DO advise everyone who doesn't agree with you on how they should post on boards.  Then you have shifted to the "I was a bad boy" or maybe I am "James Bond" or ...........line and a few other roles you've chosen for yourself in the interim.

I am trying to put this in a good light and if I am to do that, the only explanation I can find is that you are a guy who has suffered much through this process, it has torn your life to shreds and you are in the midst of recovery, demonstrated by the need to talk it all out.  If that is in fact the case, then go right ahead, because everyone deserves that opportunity and RWD has served the role of sounding board to others in similar circumstances.  If this is the case, then the closure you speak of is yet to come.  Hang in there it will come.

If I am wrong as I often am, then there is far too many inconsistencies in your story for it to be taken seriously.  Anyway, I have received a few chips over time for writing lengthly posts, you have certainly taken the prolixus mantle and I wish you the best of British luck with it. Enjoy your writing, it can be a pleasant passtime.

I/O     

[Turboguy]

Neo, I just read this thread.   You have been around forums enough to know if someone is open with their feelings and their experiences they are going to have some people jump all over them.   Don't feel you have to justify yourself.  You don't!    Personally I think they jumped the gun a little on the criticism and should have waited to hear more of your story.

I would have to think you fall more in the category of a crash and burn than a success but I think too you faced tougher situations than most have had to deal with.   We can all have our thoughts about what we would have done in the same situation but unless we have been in your shoes we can't say for sure.

Personally I am not too sure I would want to know much about how to beguile and charm a RW because in real day to day life I am not that charming and beguiling and think I would be setting myself up for a disaster in the future.

I do think we have the potential to learn what not to do in a marriage by being in one and some of us need a practice run.   My marriage lasted 18 years so some might think it was more successful than yours but in reality it was far more a crash and burn story than yours.

You say you are not an expert.   No one is Neo.   A few might think they are but it is not one expert who leads us to the truth.  It is the sharing of many stories, many success, many failures that provides the pathway that may help improve our chances of success.   I think we can all learn a little from yours and I am happy you are sharing it. 

Most here would not touch HRB with a 10 foot pole.  I think any guidance can help those who are in the searching stage and I am sure your information will be helpful.

This thread is going in so many different directions I think there is enough material for 10 separate "hot threads" so it will be interesting to see where it goes.   

Good luck and thanks for sharing.

[ScottinCrimea]

It sounds like a shallow life that someone is trying desperately to fill with adrenaline rushes.  Jumping to the next adventure, the next woman, the next group of acquaintenances when those no longer give the required rush.  You freely crash and burn lamborghinis and yachts, so why should relationships be any different?  You may have advice to offer on starting a relationship, but absolutely nothing on starting a MEANINGFUL relationship and certainly nothing to offer on sustaining one.

[Gator]

We are all different - some more than others.

[Turboguy]

Neo said he was not planning to get married again for a while and I do think that is a good move.   I think there is a time in our many of our lives when we are ready to settle down and be with one person in a committed and stable relationship.   I think Neo realizes he is not there now and perhaps he was not there as much before as he believed he was.

Usually a spousal visa is pretty much slam dunk.   This thread is going in enough directions now but I would find it interesting to know what went wrong in the interview and created all the problems with the visa.

Very true Gator.   For me that relationship would have ended at the complaining about the hotel with no bathrobe stage.  Personally, I would not have had a lot of interest in a high maintenance woman.   Neo's lifestye and priorities are far different than mine.   That does not mean either of us is right or wrong.   We are just different people.

[LadyX]

Hi, all!
I wanna say sorry in advance to those who expect me to comment the name of the topic – The Survivors Guide to HRB/RLM, but I do wanna comment the essential part of what you, NEO have written about your life.
As soon as I’ve read your, Neo, thread, I just could not stay quiet, have so much to tell you..
But first read my story…
I have been to the US twice through student visa, and in the first summer I met my present husband…
The way he loved me, the way I loved him – I have never seen  such a love on TV, I have never read about such a love in the most sentimental classic novels, I have never felt THAT loved, THAT love…
Everybody were looking at us and envy our love! I lived with him all those 2 summers, and I was everything to him, and he… I just could not imagine my life without him, I trusted everything to him. His friends used to tell him “Where have you find her?” His parents treated me good thinking it was just an entertainment. But the entertainment was ready to turn into something more serious when he firstly came to Russia…
Then there was one more wonderful summer in his hugs. We were building plans for our future – our kids, our unit, our team… You, probably, can imagine how it was like – to leave America after all that… I doubted till the last second – if I should stay – I could not imagine how I would survive without him here, in Russia. There were a lot of tears. He promised to come here on my birthday, he promised to take me back, he promised…
And he mysteriously hinted about proposal before I left, took to the mall to choose the engagement ring … but has not made. And I thought “Well, won’t push him, if he didn’t propose, that means he is not ready”. Though for me, just foolish naïve child believing that true love always goes through everything and wins – for me it was just NOT understandable. …Though deep inside I believed that he wanted to make me surprise on my birthday – 3 months after I left US.
I hated my university – the last year for which I came back, and he met my decision with understanding: “If you have decided to come back, then get this thing done for me and our future – study as well as you did and graduate“
I should say I am pretty judicious person. I will think over 3 steps ahead before taking decision, and then I go for my goal stopping at nothing. And I thought through each detail. I trusted him, damn, how much I trusted him! I stepped over myself, over that principal – the one I was trying to get into his head – American head that thinks about money only - so hardly, since we met – I was trying to get into his head that the most important thing in life is love, and you have to fight for it, and it wins, always conquers, you just have to believe, and the miracle happens…
And I didn’t stay also because I didn’t want to be a burden for him, and I got scared – he didn’t make me proposal yet… And then, I thought, maybe it was good - I will get diploma and get things done here. And yet… I was dreaming about his arrival, about he will do everything beautifully, gentlemanlike…
So, I got home, got into Internet and gut fu$ed up when found out visa’s processing time was 6-12 months! Spouse’s visa’s of course! There was no other way! – I just could not accept to stay a month longer here after graduation! For me and for him a month seemed to be eternity! And both student visa, and fiancée – I was just 100% sure I won’t get it. And I told him everything on the phone crying. And he started thinking… not for long time. Then he said OK. When his mom found out there were big fights, and he was protecting me.
 And then a nightmare was started. He started to panic. He changed his decision 3 times, when everything was ready, and the whole city knew about it – ‘cause I needed to arrange everything with papers and people… And he cancelled his refusals after I was threatening to not meet him at the airport when he comes here and to brake up for ever. I was also too bad, I was taking risk, so big risk – he was everything to me…
But I also COULD NOT understand that phrase – “You are everything to me, you are my life and I don’t have to look no more, you are my future wife… but I am not ready yet”. Just could not! For me “to love’ means to break walls, whatever, just to be around each other!
And he came. And there was the most terrible birthday, when all my dreams about fairy-tail proposal were shattered, and I cried out, and he said “my baby, my honey, lapochka, you want, you want me to do it now?”… and he did…
 He was not going to marry. He planned to buy the rings to show me his intensions and get marry in 3 months in the next his arrival, and I tried so hard to assure him that he will have so much work – summer time was coming, I will have to pass the government exams, he won’t want to spend his money, that 3 month – is 3 month more of being apart!...
 
 Through a sea of tears, humiliations and nerves on the …of January we got married. And you know what he said after the marriage ceremony?
“You know, actually it’s so great that we got married now, there are a lot of pluses! Everything will be great – the way we were dreaming about, the time will pass quickly, soon we will be together…” He was happy, so happy… If you could only see him! He swore at the ceremony to all of my family, relatives, friends – he swore them to love me and to protect till the rest of his life, and even if he’s not on the Earth. And he didn’t lie… What to say… He even cried while proposing!...
  Have gathered all the papers he left. Submitted for CR1 and K-3. The first petition was sent on Feb. I was getting all the info for him, was watching over each of his step in the process – have known about how many of Americans apply for layer’s help because of such an easy thing like this process (I am well familiar to any type of paperwork, and believe, it’s much easier to do that paperwork than to get sometimes passport here, in my country) I didn’t want him to spend his money, so I was instructing every of his steps in the process…
Time was passing…
Everything was good first. He called several times a day, there were letters every day. We were arguing a lot.  But I always forgot everything and forgave… He kept his anger, and at every of our fights he could bring up everything…
Of course his parents were in shock.  Then they got used. All of his colleagues and friends could not expect that – being 26-30 year old men, these kids – actually kids – had 3 kids and sad experience of their marriage life – they pushed his mind, making jokes like “so where is your mail order bride? When will you order next one?” And he didn’t listen…
And I was praying to God to make the process quicker because being apart was terrible, so hard… And he was saying all the time “Thank you for being my wonderful little wife”, calling several times a day just to say ‘I love you’… 
And everything went wrong  after his parents interfered in one our private business and asked me to refuse from the conditions we had with my husband earlier. I didn’t, and he didn’t say them  we already had that arrangement… It’s not that matter, but the thing is  it took away any hope to get relationship with his parents back. And he started doubting… He started THINKING…
Our family, that existed 2 years before marriage and only 3 days after marriage and was kept  by hope, belief and waiting – started to destroy this way:
He called me, saying how much he loved me and missed me, and then suddenly  turned into capricious baby, when I was asking sometimes how everything goes with process, he kept something in, then started to talk like I did something wrong. When I was asking what’s wrong, I started to get this type of answers “You made me marry, you, when I told you I was not ready, so now don’t complain about the way I talk to you”. Then called me back saying how much he was sorry, that he had bad day, that he loves me so much…
Then there was worse… I started calling to NVC and found out there was a big advance in CR process a month ago, and he even didn’t tell me anything. The processes ran with a wild speed…
But our relations are being destroyed. We started to talk about divorce. He wrote such a bullshit! Like if I didn’t come back to Russia it would prove him that  I truly love him, like if I stayed 2 weeks longer, it also would prove him that I loved him (f$ck! I would have my visa expired and I was thinking to not be out of low to be able to get another visa – how come he can’t understand that!) – such a bullshit, he was blaming, blaming and blaming…
And I knew, I know, as soon as I show up in front of his eyes – all that bull$ will go away. I was getting out of my skin – just to let myself see him – here or there – doesn’t matter…
Then I surrendered, asking to not call me, to not write. And he didn’t let me forget him – he didn’t call, didn’t write, then suddenly appears – calls or writes something like “I wish you could be here with me”. And every time I forgive him, meet each of his calls with “I miss you, honey” thinking that bull$ is over, and he, have known I still love him, and suffer, he starts acting like an ass$le again…
What a things I was writing to him! That he is a coward, swallowed the bull$ his friends and parents told him, that he is a coward - haven’t wait 2 month longer, that he is a coward – have to show your dignity by not waving your f$cking papers in front of my eyes and by real gentlemanlike actions!...
When I am out of my nerves I just write “f$king as$ole and coward, selfish, where is this childish stupidity comes from, and I don’t want to hear him, see him no more… And he answers “You know, I was already thinking about getting back on our relations but after I got that nasty letter I think you and I together are not gonna work”. Just wanna kill him after these words!
Then I get "I still think about your nice ass and all the crazy stuff we were dreaming about..."
Well, you think ‘2 more days, and I can call”, and calling him with an expectation to get that desirable “I love you”, and he, have found out I am calling, which means still love him, doesn’t pick up the phone.
And this is it.

See, I am writing about our fights which had no any base! Now I look back at all has happened and wonder what a bull$ was our fights over!  How come a man can be that weak sometimes… I knew, always knew as he did – we could go through ANYTHING. You have no idea HOW MUCH he loved me and I loved him… (well, some of you, readers, does, as I read your threads…). Both on the phone and being around each other – when we even fought – it was for couple hours – we just could not be apart. And were not scared to show love to each other, to look silly, we used to breathe by each other… We are different so much… And there were things I could not understand as I’m Russian, he could not as he is an American. But I always knew I would never ever ever leave this person so as he was telling me “if you leave me I will just die because you are the best women I ever met, and there is emptiness even in the house since you’ve been gone, so what to add about my soul…  and you are everything to me, I don’t have to look no more, you are the God’s gift” We were together. And we had all the power of the world to make our own fairy-tail come true.  He could survive those 7 months between those 2 summers without me around, but calling and writing only. And, believe me, I knew he never cheated on me, and still know he doesn’t.  And he was doing good on waiting – I can’t believe – couple months ago he still called me and swore how much he loved me… and now…
And now, Neo, I’m writing it for you and all the visitors of this forum.
My story is another example of weakness. I read your thread, Neo, and see myself in your wife’s position…
But the thing is I met my husband in person, in his territory, speaking his language, living in his house, being his the only one, his called wife and having all the rights of wife… He is 6 years older me, he has a lot of business-mind intentions, ideas, small business running… I was trying my best thinking about our future – as he wanted me to do… And that’s why I decided to come back to Russia – to graduate – only 8 months more! To get the ‘red’ diploma – with only “A”’s in there, have planned my carrier there – the way he would proud of me… I was trying to be the best for him,  #1 and the only one. And I kept my mark. I kept his house clean, I cooked all the time, I was buying him style cloth to go out for dinner (all the married Americans here can understand me – I bet their wives still consider restaurants not as a place to eat but as a place to relax and enjoy by romantic occasion, attract more attention of others not to flirt but to make you, husbands, hold them tighter, proud of them, of their beauty, and love them more)… I was trying to make every of his day amazing, making little surprises – little gifts, big gifts, dinner with candles, bath with candles, dancing for him, buying sexiest underwear (women will understand me)… I gave him some business ideas and brought him his first customers, I was a great housewife, I was great lover, I was the best student at my university, I was everything a men can only dream about… And yeah… it sounds so familiar to me… about the best popka…. I knew my price, I mean the price of my love – it was worthless, but at the same time I never controlled him, I never was self confident. I could do everything I wanted… but with him only around… I was letting him be a man, MY MAN, letting him to make his own decisions. He used to tell to all of his friends and relatives how great I am and how much he misses me and loves me!...  He also knew and told me one day – “Do you know another reason why I see you and only you as my wife? Because with you in my life, such a trustful person, there won’t be the day when I find another man in/under my bed” (he was fed by listening such a type of stories from his friends and colleagues about their bad experience). And keep in mind, guys, I NEVER asked from him a dollar, nor any gifts… And to tell the truth he was paranoid about money sometimes, he even didn’t buy me anything as I can remember… but it was OK with me  -  I asked him to not spend his money, I was a student, but working  I could afford myself everything I wanted and what I could not – I wanted to make myself – to make HIM proud of me. And I liked it best – to see his smile and happiness when he got something from me or when he saw my success… Money was never priority #1 for me. I was trying to surround him with everything he didn’t see in his family – love, care, warm, tight family unit, team… And he loved me for that, he thanked me for that, for making his life happy…
Yes, his love was alittle mixed with love of money as priority #1. But no one gift, no one cruise will compare to his tenderness and love he gave me!
Now I have that f$g diploma in my hands, have job, have that fu$ing nice ass and youth,  have everything… but the most important thing in life that can’t be substituted by money, by another person…  I even can’t imagine myself with someone else but him...
Do you know what it means ‘I trusted him my LIFE’?.. He is my HUSBAND. Which means the closest person in the world I trust everything.
Time apart destroyed everything.  And while I had all the courage of the world to fight and to go through everything till the end just to be with my baby, my baby surrendered…
And no one person in the world will prove me that he doesn’t love me! I feel it and I know it.
In couple weeks I have interview for fiancée visa but I’m not going… He didn’t say a word about divorce, he just left. And sometimes I still get something like “you know, your letters and pics still make me horny”… or “I do miss you and think about you all the time, but things just are not the way I wanted them to be. Always yours, …” 
I don’t know about you, NEO, but I saw and read in your messages only the story of your romance – the way you were writing about your wife, the way you loved her, or just was blind by passion, who knows… – look at what you’ve written! Can you see it yourself? It seems to me like you are writing about all this asking yourself why you did that and looking for reasons to justify yourself or distracting everybody’s attention on expenses issue though actually emphasizing your love, and your weakness, sorry…
Sometimes bad things come to my mind and I wanna say “What the F$!” Looking at your, Neo, story, at mine,  I can think that some man love “for public” – having the hottest, funniest, smartest chicks in the world, having everybody to envy them – their love is just enjoying of themselves!..
But then I find strengths to believe and to hope; to convince myself that was just his fear, just our fear…
Nothing, I swear nothing will make me change my mind. I still think and always will that love goes through everything and wins the most worthless prize – life in each other’s hugs as a happy family unit. I think about him all the time, and even thinking – about his hugs, about the most wonderful place in the world – on his chest – it’s worth it – to wait him, to love him, for all the love he gave me, and I don’t care what my parents tell me, what my friends tell me…
People lose their lives because of such a mistakes, Neo, because they had, saw some fight, some trouble coming up and out  without looking deeper – in to their heart, breaking lives of both… If it was real love, keep in mind that no one will substitute her in your life, you will spend all your life in search but nothing, nobody will satisfy you, and by the time you will aware it, grow up, it might be late…
I don’t write you what a fool you are that let her go and surrendered… But think about what I’ve written – there maybe something similar with your wife’s feelings.
And I wanna say to all the other guys here – please, keep your wives tighter and value all they do to express their love and gratefulness. The more I read this forum the more I am proud of strength, courage, power of love of some Russian women…  They actually need a MAN.
Sorry again, everybody, for my long story. And you, Neo, I understand – business, process, dog tired… but I bet you never felt tired around her… It was worth all the troubles…
  People miss easily the treasure God gives them. It is sad…
You reminded me my husband, that’s why I’m here. I wish my husband could read it…
Wish you all the best.

[neo]

Guys,

I didn't come here to tell you what all to do, WRT to HRB my "survicors guide" was purely inr eference to hoping i could offer any help to pull guys out of the mire before it was too lite but we have gone way o/t for that.


I have bared my sole and given you some quite personal insight into my failings as a man because if nothing else i should be a cautionary tale.

After my marriage break up and six month illness i had a lot of time to reflect on where my life had gone wrong, when you are lying in a hospital bed at 4am and can't sleep for all the tubes sticking out of you, the years spent hard partying with shallow people who care nothing for you, the endless champagne and air kissing functions full of stupid people with no thought in their head, the completely wasteful attitudes of look at me showmanship - you realise when you hit the wall it all meant nothing, you have contributed nothing and nobody even notices you've gone.

I was lucky enough to go through that in a way, althought it was too late to save my marriage, the damage was already done - like a hangover after a long night in the cold hard light of day its hard to see good in yourself. I needed to step away from my entire life and find myself, find some faith in something more meaningful and look at where i was going if i got another chance.

The sad fact is we don't all come the men we hope to be.

Through my work life i was suckered into a shallow pointless existance ruled by socialising and being a percieved success and good showman. I wrote about that period because part of facing my demons is looking at where it all went wrong.

I spent a lot of time on the boards, i become too focused on simply learning to play the game, beat they system and "find my match" - the sad fact is when i did i woke up on the morning after my wedding and i just did not have any idea what to do next - or how to be a husband.

Im not having a go at my board elders. I came here to learn from the guys who went through what we went through and came out with a good marriage and kids, i learnt everything there was to know about FINDING a rw but i learnt nothing about what it took to be a good husband or father.

I was involved in this process a long time, and part of my downfall was being part of the process, my choices in agencies and their polciies and what it does to you to actually navigate through all the various scams and problems turns you into a different person, it becomes almost surreal, people offer advice and row on the boards and all if it goes out the window when its just left with you and your wife and not knowing what you are supposed to say.

I was hoping to try and post some experience so people down go down the road i went down, i wasnt here to preach, i wasnt her as advisor in chief, i was here to learnt as i posted for me im now at ground zero.

I've had to start my life againt from scratch. Ive had to leave my whole life behind, my friends, work, social circile and the endless partying and hedonism and find a new place for myself in the world, where hopefully i kind find some sort of peace and happiness that doesnt involve self destruction.

Part of coming to terms with being a person who is locked in a cycle of self destruction and self abuse wether it be through women, or drugs or drink is understanding where it all went wrong, why you made those decisions, you can really only do that with the support of others who are capable of being tactful enough to ADVISE ratehr than simply criticise and shred you apart again.

The person i was is not the person i am or hope to be. I simply wanted to illustrate in context "that was how my life was and thats how it ended" - if newbies could learn from that and not walk my path then i am more than happy for them.

But i honestly dont need a lot of advise on meeting the perfect RW, that is all i was trying to say, i have met 100 or more perfectly genuine decent marryable RW and i have let them all down by being either too selfish or self absorbed to be a good enough man to deserve them.

Im now involved with someone who is FAR too good for me, i dont want to ruin her life and i dont want to go down my same mistakes, i want to learn to be the better man i hoped to be and try adn learn why i got into such a mess in teh first place, and i hope to learn from some of the board elders who have happy wives and kids exactly what is "next" because i just havent got a clue.

If anyone saw aflie they understand, i wasnt trying to up my ego as a sort of James bond i was just simply trying to say "thats all i am good for" - not because im proud of it, but thats because i wasted 10 years pursuing that at the expense of everything else and now i realise thats all i am and i need to look forward and learn how to be something more useful to society.

So thats what i was trying to communicate. i cant help people in that respect, because i dont think what i have to offer has any value beyond being a cautionary tale of how to ruin your life, so i didnt want people expecting some great wisdom - only a horror show of where my life went wrong at the hands of agencies, bad women choices and my own personal self destruction desire.

So im just trying to start again, its like learning to walk you just go one step at a time.

Im sorry if you think im an awful human being, truth is i couldnt look in a mirror without feeling some shame about a lot of behaviour but you have to understand im not here to post this because im proud of it or i think its something to brag about - its simply to say im not an expert, but i dont beleive any man can really be an expert, we can all learn something from each otehr if we are prepred to listen and reason but i think the cycle of negative criticism that doesnt actual offer anything useful in terms of saying "well you dropped the ball but why do you think you dropped the ball, i think you dropped the ball is because...." is more usuful to debate than simply thinking we "know it all". i always thought i knew more than i did. but as i said, lying there at 4 am it didnt mean a thing.

What i was trying to express to you guys is i spent a decade pursuing some very poor values and i have paid dearly a price for it. I dont want tea and sympathy because nobody made me do it, but being a young guy i was perhaps to easily swayed - in any regard a lot of  "the process" really undermined certain values and contributed towards that - especially dealing with the less reputable end of the world thats fun and exciting at the time but in hindsight was reckless and very damaging to a persons values.

I expected a hard time, Jack Bragg the great enfant terrible on RWG showed me the most dangerous thing you can do is express a controversial opinion on a message board but Jack was still a great guy even if people didnt like his views or agree with him.

Im trying hard to make sense of my life involved in all of this, my thanks go out to guys like JB and gator and others who are prepared to let a guy have his chance to say "this is my life, this is what ive done, ive made mistakes and im noving on" rather than just flaming me for every percieved thing.

So like i said, im here to learn not to preach, and if asked ill talk about my downfall in the hope others can maybe avoid some mistakes, but i really don't need to be told what a reckless idiot i was, i get that idea from what happened to me when the party ended.....

And for the HRB, i was just trying to tell people how to get out without their fingers burnt, i honestly didnt set up with the intetion to say "Join HRB follow my steps and meet a perfect wife" because i really cant say that will happen for you. all i can do is recollect my experience of dealing with the various problems that someone may have and how i got around them, but if nobody wants to hear it i really dont have to tell it.

And at the end of the day, a simple post doesnt give you the full picture, ive led a complicated life and you guys honestly dont know even half the things that led me down the roads they did, people are very quick to judge but people start out to get into such a pattern of self destruction it just creeps up on you and then its usually too late.

[Gator]

LadyX,

I read your post.  It is a classic.  Unfortunately, I need to run and can not give it the time it deserves. 

99% of the stories here come from men.  Rarely do we get the RW’s perspective.  Thank you for telling us how a real RW feels and thinks.

You are a remarkable woman, reminding me of those revered wives of Decembrists, following their husbands to the gulag. 

There are similarities between your situation and Neo’s.  There are some differences too.

In your case your man is selfish and self-absorbed, and in contrast you seem emotionally generous.  He seems very immature because he did not know what he wanted.  His family and friends convinced him that now is not the time for marriage.  Some of this is understandable because he is only 26-27 and many men simply are not fully developed, balanced nor adjusted at that young age.

He did you a favor by ending the relationship because you are too good for him.  You will realize exactly that when your pain of loss eases.  More important, you will love again, and that new man will be very lucky.  And you will be so much wiser.

[Hub]

Lily, remember in another thread I was telling you how if you frequented dating sites headquartered in USA as many of the guys here were suggesting to you . . . . sure you would get a lot of contacts, but when the guys found out some of the problems involved in marrying a woman from FSU and getting her here, they would quickly fade away.

You replied that any guy who could do his job at work could probably handle the problems and you could even help with the paper work.

Here in this thread you see some of the situtations that can develop that really no one can solve.

Yes, these may be the exceptions, but they still do happen.

[BillyB]

… He didn’t say a word about divorce, he just left. And sometimes I still get something like “you know, your letters and pics still make me horny”… or “I do miss you and think about you all the time, but things just are not the way I wanted them to be. Always yours, …” 

LadyX, I suspect your husband was always a little weak and let others influence him. Maybe he did like the dances you did for him, liked your sexy panties and your ass but for some reason, I suspect he thought of you as a low class person as did his family and friends. I think some men confuse a wife who gives her all to her man with a stipper or prostitute who would dance for any stranger. Many RW can be elegant and classy in public but behind closed doors, be anything her man wants her to be. I have no problem with that.

LadyX, I would try to cut down on the arguing, nagging and bad language. That can turn many men off and it is known that some RW have driven their RM to drink.

[Gator]

BillyB,

What we have in LadyX is a woman who gave everything she had to her man, and he rejected her love in a rather childish manner.  And he still is behaving like a child.

While not lady like, you know the phrase. "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned."

I find it amazing that no one picks up on this story.  It could be a very interesting discussion.  Yet, many continue to take their 1,000th swing at Turbo. 

[neo]

Lady X

Thank you for sharing something that i know is probably very private for you

I didnt have the intention to "bare my soul" but i sort of got ambushed into explaining and defending myself and my ex wife so the cat was out of the bag and we might as well let it run around now.

BillyB, i think you have to be there first - pre-marriage everyone is on their best behaviour giving it their best face, post marriage everyone feels just a bit more secure, and in my experience of a number of RW they argue like nothing on earth, surely you have been their enough times to listen to teh next door apartment rows and arguments? You have to understand that the russian temperement is quite heated - like a hurricane they do a lot on emotions. I think a lot of guys can't handle being yelled at or having plates thrown at them, but that is in a lot of european womens nature because they are passionate - both for the good and for bad, the door swings both ways. To an extent you have to take the rough with the smooth and inveitably a fierce row follws some very passsionate reconciliation. Now the AM view of this would be a "dysfunctional relationship" but if you ask a lot of RW why they argue and fight they will say "sport, stress relief, drama or to clear the air" - i think too many western marriages stagnate due to a inability face conflict with each other, and TBH if you argue with a RW on any given sunday she is going to argue back and when you fail to agree with her may throw something at you

Lady X, you are right men have a fundamental weakness in a lot of ways, and western men are not much better than our russian counterparts. I know a lot of Russian men and they are unfairly steretyped in the west that they are somehow weaker or more prone to things like alcohol abuse than western men, but in my experience the difference is purely accident of situation. Most western men lead very relatively comfortable lives with secure employment, financial sitatuation in countries with good social strucutres in place to keep them on a even keel. Russian men face a lot of different challenges not least if they are just an honest guy trying to make a good living, so their "weakness" is no doubt the same "weakness" that all man can potentially suffer if it hits the fan.

My wife paid a lot of attention to "strong man". we all see it written by RW but don't really think what it means to be a strong man, sadly when i was tested i was found wanting and my wife suffered. I have learnt to live with that mistake, and i have now set on a path of self improvement to become a "stronger" man so that if i do marry again then i am better prepared, more mature and more able to play the role of husband.

On these forums you see we focus a lot on "process" of meeeting a woman but very little on relationship, everything is about meeting the right match, avoiding scams and bad situations or girls with bad motives but nobody really talks about the really important parts too much of are we ready to commit? do we really understand the expectations of our future wives? do we understand what it means to be a russian womans husband?

I think all these questions more new guys and old guys who have made a mess of things need to pay much closer attention to, we need get our head out of our asses and listen to the guys who have been married several years to see if we can actually learn from their ATTITUDES towards marriage because clearly a lot of guys just focus too much on winning the prize and not enough on how serious this is.

For the record, i loved my wife, our marriage came from a very close, very strong friendship we developed. we were like best friends and she was wonderful company. the passion and sexual chemistry came much later because initially it was very warm but felt very platonic, so i don't ever think i was blinded by passion - yes she was very attractive and had a hot figure and i wouldn't like if i said i wanted to sleep with her straight away but thats the man in me, but she also had a great character and so i held back - it was the coming together of a strong friendship and whizz bang sexual chemistry and fuelled the furnace of our love affair, because you can't have one with out the other. When we were together we talked endlessly and we were both able to simply "be ourselves" without worrying about we said or doing or saying the wrong thing or looking stupid. She was the firt woman i had a relationship where i could simply be "taken as i am with all faults included" and that was a real revelation to me, because always i had to be something i wasn't, and to be able to be relax and be a silly little boy sometimes made me feel very comfortable with her. You are right, i never felt tired with her and i never tired being in her company, what made life more hard for us was that we really just loved being "together" and spending time together just for companionship if nothing else,a nd so it was incredibly hard emotionally for us to be apart because of it.

You have some good advice to offer, i hope you can continue to offer it because i think there is too much male perspective here and men dont like to talk about feelings or emotions - and the problem is if they lose sight of the reality of this which is the most fundamental key to success is falling head over heels in love with someone to the extent you are prepared to make any sacrifice (and we both know how many their will be) then you are doomed to failure.

TOo many guys just really go out to choose a girl based on what they want. its easy to look at a pretty young girl and confuse love with lust, but i think the really clever guys on the forum know what love is, and you cannot rationalise it or process it or try and make it happen.

We all should value our women better, we spend to much time finding fault with them and expecting them to be perfect and the reality is we need to look at ourselves, and think well what the hell does she want me for? im a sack of SXXXT!!!! - too much male ego and pride is blidning us from teh obvious truth that most of us dont deserve the women who bless our lives,a nd we should be thankful every day that they choose to love us the way they do. And we should also remember that going to russia simply to meet some hot young sexy girl to make us feel better misses the point of what makes russian women special. Lady X is a good example of the RIGHT reason to want to marry a Russian woman is because they love like no other women - they really do just put everything  body heart and soul into it, and its something so incredible you cannot even put a price on it.

They can row with you, throw things at you, tell you that you are the wrost husband on earth, ry, shout and scream and then rip your clothes off you and be so passionate you have a heart attack.

I have never felt so loved, so special or so wanted as by a russian woman, and for me that makes all teh crap with the agencies, the attempted scams, the BS visa situation and everything worthwhile.

But take Lady x advice, when you find it then you need to hold on to it for dear life. because it really is the most precious thing you can be given.

So many thanks for your contribution and telling us your life,. i wish you all the best in your life and i hope your husband manages to find his ass from his elbow before its too late, because he needs to learn that he needs to forget his parents, his friends, his coworkers and every dog, bus driver and guy ont he streets opinions and views of him and concentrate on teh only thing which is worth a damn and thats you.

[LadyX]

Hello, friends!
Neo, I posted my letter for you to show the other side (in some way) of your story only, not blaming or teaching. I’m sorry if my words offended you. I really wish you could find your way to be happy.
I hesitated about keeping on writing here – it was not my topic actually and I don’t have right to take your attention on my story. But I got couple replies that I would like to comment, trying to stay away of snots, nagging, arguing etc. And I’m sorry if it will take a lot of words.
Thanks a lot, Billy B. and Gator.
Every day I wake up and, have convinced this nightmare is reality, I ask myself what I have done wrong. Billy B., you clearly answered my question. And you are not the first one who told me that, who has the same view. No matter who you are – American/Russian/European/African/Asian – feelings are the same; people judge same way – bad or good, blaming me or him. There is no originality. You, foreigners, feel same way as we do, behave same way as we do. It’s like there are good and bad people here as well as all over the world, and nobody will give you guarantee that you find your princess here – the one you expect her to be… 
As I can remember since I grow up I used to ask myself one question. I had pretty wealthy experience and reasons to ask that question: I was looking around, at couples’ relationships, at my own romances, looking at my family where I was surrounded by love and tight family unit but parents who didn’t love each other and sacrificed their happiness for us, children, living together for us only…;   having 2 brothers I was watching them, their psychology, their characters, manners of expressing feelings to their girlfriends…; I read a lot of classic books of different cultures, different epochs. I picked up a lot from those fairy-tales I read in childhood and those novels I read later. I saw there what my soul needed, and looking around I wondered – “Why don’t I see that fairy-tale love in reality?”. All I saw was cheating, betrayal, short blind passion without feelings.
I was looking, because I could not believe it doesn’t exist. And every time I got my fingers burnt. I  can’t half-love, can’t half-trust. Just can’t! Teach me how to do it! If I love, I love giving all myself.  How do you call it? Lack of wisdom? Stupidity? Stubbornness? Foolishness? Maybe. Because every time I got my fingers burnt. Do you know why? Because of such a type of mind you, Billy, have, and a lot of others.
There is well known phrase concerning men as well as women – the more we love somebody the more we push that person away, and, on contrary, the more we act like bi$ches the more attention we get.
For all my short life I have been looking for demonstration of lack of this theory’s substantiation as I consider it as a huge delusion. Love is not what Zighmund Freid (sorry for wrong spelling) wrote about.
I had couple short romances before I met my husband. I also don’t accept this type of thinking – “Well, as I don’t have someone better, I can date with him for a while, sleep with him; then, when I meet someone better I’ll leave”, so those romances were based on seeing my boyfriends as potential life’s companion.
… Do you know what I noticed? No matter how bad a man is, I mean the way he treats you, he ALWAYS strives for love, for being loved, there, where he will be surrounded by warmness. And when he gets that love, he doesn’t know what to do (like Neo wrote), there also maybe society’s principals of free love interfere in his feelings, so one day he  might have hazard, wanting to have his blood boiled, but in the end he comes back. The only thing I can not forgive and forget is cheating. No matter what circumstances were, there is no that word in my dictionary, in my love. We have conscience and we have soul to be different from animals…
My first boyfriend didn’t love me at all, he loved nobody. I was sweet sugar piece for everybody but unapproachable, and I chose him, and it gratified him, that’s why he was with me. But he didn’t need my love. Of course… who needs it in 20?.. (He came back in 2 years after he left me, when I already realized that there can’t be a fairy-tail love when one loves only, he came for the love I could not give him anymore – it was gone: the flower - love - needed water to grow in right time…).
My 2d boyfriend was… how do you call it?.. ‘White trash’? Just a stranger on the street who was hiding from police and in panic running to me asking for help. And I took him out of police’s hands. His gratitude and curiosity about having Russian girlfriend, sweet talks  I wrongfully accepted as something more serious. I didn’t care about his society level. He was drug dialer as I have known later… He betrayed me.
Twice it was hard to go through, though those romances didn’t last long. But I didn’t surrender, didn’t became that disappointed person to assure myself that there is no love in the World so I didn’t  rush into revenging to them, to all the World, practicing free love, hating men etc.

When I met my husband, I could not believe I could ever be THAT happy, THAT loved…
All I was looking for was in him, - the way he loved, the way he treated me was too far from treating prostitute, Billy…He was carrying me on his arms, to say it imaginary. I felt myself a queen around him. It’s funny luck, but he was policeman…  I was pretty cautious by that time in having relationship. But he conquered my heart.
I fully realized my power over him. But I never used it for bad intentions. When I was around, and even here, we were invincible team, no matter how his mom screamed at him, he always protected me, what a sweet talks he used to tell about me to his colleagues and friends… Well, they saw me around him, me helping him in his business, when I had offs from my work, keeping his house glittering,  dancing with him on parties, making him laugh…  they just whispered him where he managed to find me… And he was proud of me, he loved me so much.
He taught me a lot. Everywhere.
So now I am asking myself and you, Billy, what is the best way? To give all myself, what means to love, sincerely, trustfully, being opened, to be prostitute ONLY for him, in his room…  Or to be fake, holding down feelings or lack of them, acting like a bi$ch making all his friend horny to make him jealous, have his $$$ stuck in his pants from boiling his blood because of jealousness, to lie him with fake smile that everything is OK, never letting him know about my feelings, hide, hold my feelings down, and behind his back saying sh$t about him to friends?..
Teach me how to love right way.
Don’t you like doggy love (I mean faithfulness)? But what love can be like without trust, without total trust? It is not love then…
About RW making RM drink… He knew I was sugar piece that nobody else had not. And I could slap somebody in the club for letting their hands touch me or say something bad when he was leaving me for couple minutes. But him – never. He never hit me, never abused. And I never raised my voice at him.  But there were couple times when I raised my hand to slap him because he screamed at me in fury  the way he didn’t hear neither me nor anything around, and in that flood of words he said some things that were just like  a knife to my heart. And I doubt I would hit him, But I raised my hand to stop it, and that was the only thing that could stop him and let him know what he has just said. He caught my hand, huged me tightly,  petting my hair, kissing me… After such a shaking of nerves there was wild sex usually. Sometimes I was coming to the point when thought that was a foolish but necessary way to get that highest satisfaction – first to get on my nerves, to touch me, to start fighting and… to get discharged. It’s not him only, a lot of men and women as I heard, read  and saw in movies… My husband could satisfy me in every way, and he knew it, he was proud of me as happiest person in the world around him. Very high emotional scenes… And those who drink having families – they are just weak. Why haven’t I started drinking after all I went through?.. If you saw me now, if my husband saw me, he would never recognize that beauty he had in this 47 kg sack of bones with fade eyes that is sitting in front of computer now.
But all what happened didn’t break me as I thought, didn’t  break my belief and hope to find the error in that theory. I still believe that love exists – love which means harmony(=love+sex). And it should not be hidden, half-way loving, half-way trusting. Yes, it should be full of passion and trust, it might be wild though… But it is always belonging to each other.
I have one more episode from our life that will emphasize error of considering money as #1 priority in relationship. One day he needed help. Not like everybody’s dieing but that help was needed extremely.  He called to all of his friends asking for help, offering money, but NOBODY wanted to help him making foolish excuses. Money could not make real friends to him… And I said “Let’s bet I am calling to the first of my not even friend but acquaintance and he will help you”. And I did. It was in America, and that acquaintance was not even Russian. He helped my husband without any money.  And all the time when we gathered together with my friends he used to tell me such a funny thing “Do you know why else I love you? Because you can surround yourself with people like you – trustful, responsible, funny… And as I look at you at your university – the way they treat you like teacher /mom, asking for advice,  the way they respect you in any way, the way they help you when you need help… and I love you more and more…”

As I mentioned I lived with him all the time in his house, without his parents. And after I left he decided to rent out the house have moved to his parents’ one. And he called me then saying how much he doesn’t want it – to live with parents again, to see their fights, hear their  shouts, he was afraid of “ losing what I learnt around you, my honey – tight family unit, unconditional love”… And everything went the way he was afraid of…
Gator, thank you very much for your inspired words, yes – exactly the way you wrote – Decembrists wives…  
But I don’t blame him… I just can’t understand…
Well, I am happy about I hope I managed to convince somebody who is looking for love – to convince them that yes, some of Russian women think that way, feel that way as well as, no doubt, women in your own countries. I am sorry for being sometimes too sincere in my letter if you know what I mean. My post will have value for the ones looking for answers to understand what some women feel as I touched several subjects…
I wish you all could be THAT loved and happy as I was.


p.s. I have just read your, Neo, new post and I can say I laughed till the tears ran dawn my face at the way you wrote about russian wives, plates, dogs etc!
It is actually a huuuuge extreme! And, if you noticed, I have just written about the same things but from women's point of you!
Just one more question to you, Neo - why don't you think relationship with your wife can not be revived?