Give me your opinions/advice please? :-)

[HazyKnight]

Hi!

Call me Hazy. You can see my intro thread in the intro area above this one for info on who I am and since I'm new here.


So here's the story...

I had a relationship with a Ukrainian woman back in 2001. I met her here on American soil, so there was no "greencard" impact, except she was her on a work Visa. Anyway, that relationship basically didn't work out for other reasons. However, she had great ethics, morals, libido, and was/is still a great woman. We are still friends and she is now married to a different American man.

I decided that when I was ready to marry, I would look in Ukraine and Russia for a woman to meet, date, and marry. I then decided to try and meet a foreign woman through the Internet for marriage. I went with the agency "Globalladies.com." It was a good site that let me choose who I wanted to speak to and had cheap translation fees. If anyone has any positive or negative things to say about that site, let me know because I am interested in others feedback.

I wrote emails to many, and many wrote back to me, but I kept going back to one woman's profile. There was something special about her. She wasn't flaunting her goodies, and she was educated and speaks English.

We wrote each other for a year, and I then decided I would fly to Moscow and meet with her. She's actually from a smaller town. She wasn't too impressed with me for one reason or another. I didn't like how she wasn't very affectionate. I was upset at flying all the way over there after having spoken on the phone and writen numerous letters for a whole year to not even receive a kiss! She was cold, and quiet. She didn't seem interested. She warmed up when we got back to her home town, but then had to leave me early to go back to work. I figured "ok, first time meeting, understandable to not kiss, etc." I complained about it, and she said to give her a second chance. Well, I thought that was her second chance. She thought it was mine. So we met again in Prague this year, and spent a week together. Again, no kissing, etc. And I did a lot for her. Her sister wanted a cactus, so I brought that, along with a pineapple, chocolates, magazines, and other things to show her I cared.

Essentially, in the end, I think she is settling for me because she can't find her version of Antonio Banders. Yep, she likes Latin romantic men. Now I'm romantic, but all of my efforts went unnoticed, and I further banged my head on the wall. She can't even say "I love you," over the phone when I do.

Is this normal?

I know she loves me, I can see it in her eyes, but why doesn't she show me affection? When I ask her, she says "Just so."

She's 26, I'm 28.

Thanks for your time and energy for a respone.

ps- I paid for everything on both trips, her travel to Prague, to Moscow, the Hotel, my planes, etc.

[William3rd]

Sounds like an ice princess. And it sounds like you are not compatible. Perhaps you should thank and excuse and then move on to someone more attuned to your desires.

[Jet]

so I brought that, along with a pineapple, chocolates, magazines, and other things to show her I cared.

You smuggled FRUIT for her? ...and the b*tch wouldn't "put out"? I'm shocked I tell ya, shocked!  :hairraising:

Essentially, in the end, I think she is settling for me because she can't find her version of Antonio Banders. Yep, she likes Latin romantic men. Now I'm romantic, but all of my efforts went unnoticed, and I further banged my head on the wall. She can't even say "I love you," over the phone when I do.

Is this normal?

I know she loves me, I can see it in her eyes, but why doesn't she show me affection? When I ask her, she says "Just so."

She's 26, I'm 28.

She may very well love you - likely like she'd love a rich brother or uncle, but for sure she isn't "in love" with you. There's an old saying around these forums that if a woman is into you, you'll know it. If you have to ask a second opinion about "Is this normal?", she ain't into you, and you already know it. It really sucks to invest so much time, energy, emotion, and cash into something and have to later walk away from it, but it really is the best thing.

If I had to play Monday morning quarterback, with the info you've provided, I'd have to say you waited much too long to make that first trip, and as a consequence you became the dreaded "friend"  .

[Vaughn]

In retrospect, my advice for the second journey would have been to insist on meeting
her family in that "smaller town" - and her ducking the suggestion would have spelled the very end without the expense (money, time & emotion) of Prague.

For the future, I'd say you should keep your expectations reasonable - but reasonable
by whose standards? Pineapples, and telephone "I love you's" don't guarantee much except disappointment when the feeling's not mutual. Keep your chin up. Search for a woman who's
"into you" - and like others here, I'll agree that a woman who cares about you will
let you know it in no uncertain terms.

Vaughn

[BillyB]

Is this normal?

No, Say goodbye and find a woman where you'd have no doubts that she's into you. But if you like ice princesses and making love to the equivalent of a dead horse, proceed.

[Gator]

Are you kidding us?   Is "kiss" a code word for doing the naughty?

Nothing personal Hazy, but I think your situation is typical of a WOVO plan gone bad.  But to repeat it and still wonder why she does not kiss you when you know she loves you...... (no comment necessary).

The third time you spend a week with this woman, please do the following....Just kidding.   This type of woman is generally referred to as a vacation whore except that she did not do her part.  Such are out there.  Beware.   Everyone - is this typical for GlobalLadiescom (I have never heard of them)?

Okay WOVO men, what did he do wrong?  Help him so that he will not do this a third time.  I am a WMVM man and have no idea what to suggest other than convert him to WMVM.

Hazy, erase those thoughts in your head that she loves you.  The vast majority of RW/UW are not Mormons or anything similar.  They will seduce you if they like you.  Love...well that takes a lot of time.  You first must earn their respect and trust if they are over 30.  26, I don't know what to do, so why am I writing all of this?

Next time go WMVM.   Or get some good advice from the WOVO men.

Good luck young man.  As Vaughn said, keep your chin up.  Some other men here have made bigger mistakes than you, much bigger.

[ScottinCrimea]

Maybe better to take baby steps to WFVF with a back up plan.

Heck, there were times when I would have given you more than a kiss if you had smuggled some American foodstuffs over to me!  Find a woman who will show that she is really into you and doesn't just love you for your pineapples.  You won't have to ask - you'll know.

[BillyB]

Everyone - is this typical for GlobalLadiescom (I have never heard of them)?

 Many men have said they don't like them or are bad news, but not to the degree of Aweb.

[Turboguy]

First off let's talk about Global Ladies.   Global Ladies is owned by European Connections along with some other names they use such as E-700 and more.   Instead of me trying to tell you anything just pull up a goggle search and type in the words Global Ladies and scam and see for yourself.   Global ladies and the Steckels who own it are really probably a decent outfit.  The problems come from their affiliates in Russia who can generate a lot of money for themselves by not being ethical.  By the way, it only took me $ 100 with Global Ladies to figure out that what I was getting was too good to be true.   

My next advice is to not worry about what to do right now.  The thing you need to do is come here and read, read and read more.    This site will do you so much good that you will look back on finding this site as the thing that changed your life. 

In the meantime forget your gal.  It will never go anywhere.   She will take all the trips to exotic places you want to take her and never get friendlier than she is now.    I spent a lot of trips meeting women just like her.  When you have the right woman you will know it without a doubt.

[SANDRO43]

... not even receive a kiss! .. Again, no kissing, etc. ... Is this normal?

Shyness +  a bad case of chronic halitosis ?

[Todd]

It would seem to me that you should spend no more than 2-3 months communicating remotely prior to meeting in person.  Even if you can only get a couple of days off work, you should be able to arrive in Moscow/Kiev/etc. on a Saturday afternoon for a first date or a secondary Russian city on Saturday evening.  Then, you could stay a few days and fly back with the knowledge that you are both into each other other.  If you spend a whole year between dates, then you are going to be single for a very long time if you aren't very lucky. 

Todd

[Shadow]

The thing you need to do is understand the signals and make a decision based on them.
If she is distant, seems shy and does not want to kiss it is clear. She does not see you as husban material. Even if you get along great in writing and telephone calls, she does not want to marry you.
If you insist and make her offers of free holidays, she might accept them, just because for her it is a chance at things otherwise out of reach.
If you visit one woman, and I am the same kind of type, your visit must be directed at her. Not the Kremlin and Arbat in Moscow, not the old beauty of Prague. The main things you need is to sit at her kitchen table talking until midnight, meet her friends, and ultimately let her shock her parents by showing a foreigner. She is not your tour guide, not your mistress. she is a potential life partner, which means you should ty to find out if her daily life is something that might be compatible with yours.
Tell her that you understood the both of you will be nothing more than friends, and that you will continue your search and if needed help her out with hers. Who knows if she has a friend that already likes you.
Then write a number of women to get the feel between the reactions on what you write. Bring down the number of candidates to a manageable number (3 or 5 if you get this many with real interest) and pick the one you want to visit first. Keep the others until you are convinced.
On your way back, or latest the day after you return, examine your gut feeling. Not your little head (it might need some rest anyway) but where your thoughts go when you think of her. If it feels like something you can not miss, probably you hit the jackpot. If there are any kind of 'strange' things you get back, move on.

[groovlstk]

I know she loves me, I can see it in her eyes, but why doesn't she show me affection? When I ask her, she says "Just so."

I've seen a lot of delusional posts here over the years, but this takes the cake for denial.

[Jazzyclassy]

yeah she obviously does not love you at all just uses you as a foreign puppy

do not waste your time with her

[wiz]

The thing you need to do is understand the signals and make a decision based on them.
If she is distant, seems shy and does not want to kiss it is clear. She does not see you as husban material. Even if you get along great in writing and telephone calls, she does not want to marry you.

If you insist and make her offers of free holidays, she might accept them, just because for her it is a chance at things otherwise out of reach.

If you visit one woman, and I am the same kind of type, your visit must be directed at her. Not the Kremlin and Arbat in Moscow, not the old beauty of Prague. The main things you need is to sit at her kitchen table talking until midnight, meet her friends, and ultimately let her shock her parents by showing a foreigner. She is not your tour guide, not your mistress. she is a potential life partner, which means you should ty to find out if her daily life is something that might be compatible with yours.

Tell her that you understood the both of you will be nothing more than friends, and that you will continue your search and if needed help her out with hers. Who knows if she has a friend that already likes you.
Then write a number of women to get the feel between the reactions on what you write. Bring down the number of candidates to a manageable number (3 or 5 if you get this many with real interest) and pick the one you want to visit first. Keep the others until you are convinced.

On your way back, or latest the day after you return, examine your gut feeling. Not your little head (it might need some rest anyway) but where your thoughts go when you think of her. If it feels like something you can not miss, probably you hit the jackpot. If there are any kind of 'strange' things you get back, move on.

Shadow

Best advice, for a newbie, I have seen lately and speaking from personal experience, YOU KNOW if the woman is in you or not right away, when you visit her and have your first time together.

Actually shadow that is the path I am walking through at the moment, with my current woman in Ufa.

Why don't you try the Free dating sites?
At your age and you have the need for help from the Dating agencies?

[Kuna]

Okay WOVO men, what did he do wrong?  Help him so that he will not do this a third time. 

HazyKnight,

My search started as a VMVF but in reality I think I was a "WOVO in denial".  The first girl I met was the one I was most interested in and I regretted wasting time by meeting others.

A couple of thoughts...

Writing for a year is crazy in my opinion.  If a lady has decided she wants to seek a foreign marriage she DOES NOT want to write for a year.  She might remain curious for a year - but she won't think YOU are serious. They want someone that is serious!

If she doesn't think you are serious when you meet (and she's a "good girl") she won't allow herself to become emotionally or intimately attached...  You may not even get a kiss (depending on her own value system).  Other women may (and some do) put out for a pineapple or a cactus - but they aren't the type of women you should be looking for anyway.

In your case... sadly I would say "goodbye"... It would be incredibly difficult to turn this around without risking your butt on something that may never happen.  She might like you as a friend or companion but it's clear she doesn't see you as a partner.

In my opinion... if you're going to WOVO again (and I think you CAN be successful) I would suggest:

1. Book your flights and DO NOT write to anyone before 2 months prior to departure;

2. Make a personal list of all of the things important to you but try to use your big head instead of your little head... Think about character, values, goals, and the things you'll appreciate in 20 years...  not 20 minutes Forget about hair colour and cup size!;

3. Search the big sites (EM's, bride.ru, freepersonals.ru - in that order) and ONLY write to ladies that meet your criteria.  If you see a profile with a stunning photo but nothing that suggests potential compatibility get up from your computer and go for a walk.  The last thing you want is a hottie that is not compatible.  Focus on words not photos.

4. Write to 40 or 50 ladies but be very specific with what you are looking for and why. Tell them you are serious but not desperate.  Tell them you are traveling on X date and you would like to meet "the right girl", BUT for you it is about character, personality, value and life goals.

5. Ask her questions about her, her life, her family, her friends, her favorite day of the year, her favourite book, her favourite movie... AND WHY.
  
6. DO NOT brag about what you've got or what you own. NEVER send photos of your cars, boats, houses or ex-gf's... it won't impress the right sort of girl.

7. Read the 10 commandments here and stick by them... after you've read them keep reading them until you're married.

8. Read and reread your own list of WHAT YOU WANT and never let a beautiful photo or mushy words distract you from your original goal.  The type of women you should be seeking WILL NOT write mushy letters. scammers will because they are looking for fools who believe it!

9 When you get replies delete any that don't answer your questions. Delete any that bore you. Delete any that conflict with your wants. Delete ALL that send provocative photos or mushy words.  FSUW DO NOT fall in love via email.  Fat Yuri frequently does!  Be brave... Great women are out there that are compatible wit you.  You don't need to settle for a scam and a long and painful journey.

10. After 6 weeks or so you'll be down to a few girls... maybe 3... maybe 4.  Now comes the hard bit.  Choose one... not just any one.. your favourite one.  For me it was the one who I shared the best communication with. I knew we differed on a few things (like she had asked if I was prepared to live in Ukraine because that was he preference) but I was MOST interested in how we communicated about the things we differ on. In a relationship the happy times are easy... it's the difficult times that need good communication.

11. Tell her you arrive on X date and you want to spend time with her.  Tell her you're serious. Tell her you're not desperate. Tell her you want to meet and if things feel good for both you and her you will want to continue to get to know her better.  Tell her you're looking for a serious woman and if she is serious then you should spend time together.  If not "It's OK, we can still be friends" (and then move on).

11.  The fun bit... go and meet her...  There is NOTHING like the first trip!

12.  Another hard decision.  Did you click?  What was her reaction? Did she seem similar in person as she did in your phone calls and emails - or was she faking in your communication?  Did she react positively to you?  (Try to contain your own feelings - it's all about her reactions!)  If the answer to the above is YES...  relax a little and enjoy it... See where it goes.  Take the initiative and be a real man.  She'll respect you for it.

13. If the answer is no (she didn't make it obvious she was into you - Oh, and that doesn't mean sex... it could be introducing you to friends, family, workmates, holding hands in public... whatever...) just be honest with her and tell you that you're not confident it will work between the two of you.  It'll be hard... but you'll have to move on.  Letting go might be the hardest thing you'll ever do but one of two things will happen:
a) She'll react and show she wants more, or;
b) It'll end and you'll go to your Plan B.  YOU HAD A PLAN B DIDN"T YOU?

14. Plan B - Visit agencies and do some speed dating.  Line up a dozen dates over the next 4 days or so and if you find one woman that you really click with spend a few days getting to know her and plan your return trip.

If this all sounds hard I can promise you it is... but my honest opinion is that if you're not prepared or able to put a huge effort into this you'll either fail and give up or bounce along in FSU until you finally find someone.

This journey IS tough... it's painful... and it's exhausting... BUT IT'S A WONDERFUL ADVENTURE.

The hardest part of this pursuit is not finding the right one... it's letting go of the wrong ones.

Good luck...  and HAVE FUN!

Kuna

Oh, one last thought... it's REALLY important you don't let yourself get emotionally attached to anyone before you meet and confirm reality.  I personally believe a woman will respect you more if you aren't gushing all over your emails.

Another last thought... it IS possible to create attraction in emails and phone calls but NOTHING is real until you meet.

Looking back now I think there was a few things I did that really helped me catch my girls attention and keep it.  She still comments on some of those things now...  Oh.. and she';; be here in 18 days!   ... and I couldn't be happier!

OK... no more last thoughts!   ... for now!

[Todd]

Kuna,

Great list.  I would like to put in another vote for communication.  I picked who I did to visit first based upon how well I communicated with her.  I understand that a great number of men have found success with women who didn't know English, but I just don't think that I could.

Also, best of luck Kuna in 18 days.

Todd

[BC]

3. Search the big sites (EM's, bride.ru, freepersonals.ru - in that order) and ONLY write to ladies that meet your criteria.  If you see a profile with a stunning photo but nothing that suggests potential compatibility get up from your computer and go for a walk.  The last thing you want is a hottie that is not compatible.  Focus on words not photos.

Many browsers allow you to turn off images for a particular site.

I wonder what the result would be if someone made a list of desired characteristics, turned off images before doing the search at EM's or other sites, found some good profiles that matched the requirements and then turned images back on again to peek at the photo's..

 :hairraising:

[Kuna]

Many browsers allow you to turn off images for a particular site.

I wonder what the result would be if someone made a list of desired characteristics, turned off images before doing the search at EM's or other sites, found some good profiles that matched the requirements and then turned images back on again to peek at the photo's..

 :hairraising:

BC,

That's exactly the issue I faced before writing the first email to My Girl.  I read her profile and saw things in there that stood out way and above all other profiles I'd read.  Then I looked at her photos and to be honest... they were breathtaking. So beautiful and such a michevious look on her face.  Not posed... just a girl who obviously had chrisma.

I didn't write that night...  and for a little over a week I kept searching that same site and sorting out who I wanted to write to and her profile was still there taunting me.

OK... I had a decision to make.  Should I break my age rule I'd set and just see if she might be "the one" or should I stick to my guns?

BTW... My acceptable age range was a maximum 10 year difference...  we have an 11 year difference... I was sttretching my "reality" by a year...

A complicating factor was the fact that I was dating much younger girls at home and NONE were fulfilling...

Eventualy I wrote the letter but didn't get a response for almost a week.  When I did get a response it just said. "Can I see your photo please?"

Hmmm...  not what I expected after my masterpiece...    (By the way in my profiles I only put the bare info and no photos... I didn't want women contacting me...  in fact I didn't respond to any that contacted me. 

So I sent a photo with a short message.

No response for a day or two...  Next email simply said, "You have a Ukrainian name. Why do you live in Australia"?

D'oh... this wasn't going well...  another response...  basically back to my first email and then our correspondence started.

Soon afterwards she wrote a reply to one of mine and included her phone number (without me asking) and said it would be better if I called. 

Weekly phone calls started and she was a little shy on the phone but the tempo of her emails (and interesting observations on life) made her stand out.

Before long I would call and we would spend an hour talking about so many different topics and enjoying genuine laughter... the humour coming from both sides.

I'll admit she is rare and unique... but shouldn't that be what we should all be looking for?  I truly believe CHARACTER is the foundation of an equal realationship and those that focus on more frivolous things may still succeed...  but their risks will multiply.

Newbies... control your hormones and you'll reduce your risks!

Kuna

[BillyB]

HazyKnight,

In my opinion... if you're going to WOVO again (and I think you CAN be successful) I would suggest:

If HazyKnight is going to be successful going WOVO, he needs to understand his weakness and if a guy can't gauge the interest from a woman towards him after a year of writing, and gauge the interest from the woman after meeting her, he won't be able to do it again unless he somehow acquires a lot of knowledge/experience in a short time. Or he needs to change how he does business and communicate with as many ladies as possible, then he might find one that is so into him he can't be mistaken about the "into' part.

I'm not sure if HazyKnight even called the lady before he met her. I don't even know if the woman invited him to meet the family after their trip in another country. I still don't know what type of person HazyKinght is but based on his two posts, but if he goes on WOVO again, he will depend on luck, not skill, to find a good woman.

[ScottinCrimea]

Great posts Kuna and definitely a reasonable guidebook for a newbie to follow.  Of course there are other ways that many here have gone that worked well for them, but as a way to minimize the risks and optimize the opportunities, I think yours is a winner.  Of course I followed none of your rules and advice and it worked for me, but if I were to do it over, I would follow your suggestions nearly to the letter.

[jb]

Kuna,

That was a really great summary of "how to's".  As far as the list is concerned, I also had a list of desirable qualities in my head when I first met my wife.  Number one on that list was that I wanted a wife who would treat me well,,, What I got was a woman who treats me like a god.   That is to say, she regularly places burnt offering before me which I'm supposed to eat.   

[mspanky]

I'm gonna be blunt here. The reason she probably will not kiss you has to do with halitosis or horrible teeth and hygiene. Too many peopel completely ignore the fact your mouth has to look palatable to  the opposite sex. I remember going on a date with a knock-out RW. But her breath almost knocked me out! Damm! how could something that hot be such a trurn-off. But she was. I've heard others talk about females personal hygiene and when she took her panties off they could'nt do it due to odor.

 If you sent her your pictures and she knew what you looked like before,unless the pic was 15 years old or you gained 50 lbs look into yourself and see why she may not want to kiss you. Most likely she is'nt the only one to blame here. I've  sat next to otherwise decent looking men on planes and almost threw up at body odor or their breath. Fellows take time to go to the dentist,wear deodorant,wear clean clothes and underwear. That goes a long way. Can't always blame the woman for cold behavior.

[HazyKnight]

OK,

I'm going to respond to everyone's thoughts. Since I'm new here, please explain what this is:

Next time go WMVM.  Or get some good advice from the WOVO men 

.

What the heck is WOVO and a WMVM? And a WFVF? VMVF?

It would seem to me that you should spend no more than 2-3 months communicating remotely prior to meeting in person. 

I spent a year talking to her first. Also, yes I now know it has to happen faster. And btw Todd, I own a restaurant, so its hard to just get up and fly to Moscow.

The thing you need to do is understand the signals and make a decision based on them.
If she is distant, seems shy and does not want to kiss it is clear. She does not see you as husban material. Even if you get along great in writing and telephone calls, she does not want to marry you.
If you insist and make her offers of free holidays, she might accept them, just because for her it is a chance at things otherwise out of reach.
If you visit one woman, and I am the same kind of type, your visit must be directed at her. Not the Kremlin and Arbat in Moscow, not the old beauty of Prague. The main things you need is to sit at her kitchen table talking until midnight, meet her friends, and ultimately let her shock her parents by showing a foreigner. She is not your tour guide, not your mistress. she is a potential life partner, which means you should ty to find out if her daily life is something that might be compatible with yours.
Tell her that you understood the both of you will be nothing more than friends, and that you will continue your search and if needed help her out with hers. Who knows if she has a friend that already likes you.
Then write a number of women to get the feel between the reactions on what you write. Bring down the number of candidates to a manageable number (3 or 5 if you get this many with real interest) and pick the one you want to visit first. Keep the others until you are convinced.
On your way back, or latest the day after you return, examine your gut feeling. Not your little head (it might need some rest anyway) but where your thoughts go when you think of her. If it feels like something you can not miss, probably you hit the jackpot. If there are any kind of 'strange' things you get back, move on.

Good info Shadow, thanks  .

I've seen a lot of delusional posts here over the years, but this takes the cake for denial.

Gee, thanks.


Kuna, good advice, thanks. I read it all.

If HazyKnight is going to be successful going WOVO, he needs to understand his weakness and if a guy can't gauge the interest from a woman towards him after a year of writing, and gauge the interest from the woman after meeting her, he won't be able to do it again unless he somehow acquires a lot of knowledge/experience in a short time. Or he needs to change how he does business and communicate with as many ladies as possible, then he might find one that is so into him he can't be mistaken about the "into' part.

I'm not sure if HazyKnight even called the lady before he met her. I don't even know if the woman invited him to meet the family after their trip in another country. I still don't know what type of person HazyKinght is but based on his two posts, but if he goes on WOVO again, he will depend on luck, not skill, to find a good woman.

Yes, I called her many times. We spoke on the phone many times, and got to know each other well. For a year I looked and wrote women, but eventually decided on her. On my profile, I had it listed that I wasn't going for at least 1-2 years, so they should have known this. Anyway, I selected her because of her CHARACTER, not her beauty. I wanted to go to her home town (Penza) and meet her Mom and Sister. I was a good visit. Her Mom and Sister are really nice, but the "commander" just is ice cold. I'm going to end the relationship because there so many more red flags you guys would be shocked! I'm too embarrassed to tell them anyway.

I'm really down about this though. I got the Visa approved (no lawyer, did it myself) and got everything together. We came really close to getting it, or maybe I should say, she came close to achieving her main objective?

Thanks again for the responsese guys. All of you. I look forward to having more discussions about FSUW's in the future, but for now I'm uncertain. One thing that was also helpful was reading that EM's and other agencies were good.

Kuna,

That was a really great summary of "how to's".  As far as the list is concerned, I also had a list of desirable qualities in my head when I first met my wife.  Number one on that list was that I wanted a wife who would treat me well,,, What I got was a woman who treats me like a god.   That is to say, she regularly places burnt offering before me which I'm supposed to eat.  

No, I don't want anyone to treat me like a god. I just want what you guys want. I'm the average guy, with a little more experience, but not refined in the dating world.

I'm gonna be blunt here. The reason she probably will not kiss you has to do with halitosis or horrible teeth and hygiene. Too many peopel completely ignore the fact your mouth has to look palatable to  the opposite sex. I remember going on a date with a knock-out RW. But her breath almost knocked me out! Damm! how could something that hot be such a trurn-off. But she was. I've heard others talk about females personal hygiene and when she took her panties off they could'nt do it due to odor.

 If you sent her your pictures and she knew what you looked like before,unless the pic was 15 years old or you gained 50 lbs look into yourself and see why she may not want to kiss you. Most likely she is'nt the only one to blame here. I've  sat next to otherwise decent looking men on planes and almost threw up at body odor or their breath. Fellows take time to go to the dentist,wear deodorant,wear clean clothes and underwear. That goes a long way. Can't always blame the woman for cold behavior.

You're absolutely right. I don't blame her for everything. It always takes 2 to tango. After getting off that 14 hour Aeroflot plane, no one looks great, and she should of expected this. Anyway, after cleaning up, I looked fine. No, I didn't gain weight, I actually lost weight before meeting. In the end, I'm not romantic enough, probably not rich enough, nor able to "woo" her. The row boats got too many holes, and I'm tired of pumping out the water, just to have her shoot more holes. I'm abandoning ship, and we'll swim our different ways.

[jb]

That was a really great summary of "how to's".  As far as the list is concerned, I also had a list of desirable qualities in my head when I first met my wife.  Number one on that list was that I wanted a wife who would treat me well,,, What I got was a woman who treats me like a god.   That is to say, she regularly places burnt offering before me which I'm supposed to eat.   

No, I don't want anyone to treat me like a god. I just want what you guys want. I'm the average guy, with a little more experience, but not refined in the dating world.

Sorry my friend, my comment was not meant as advice, it was an attempt to lighten up a really dark topic/thread.  If you own an eatery you should have picked up on the humor.  Food,,, burnt offerings... Treats me like a god.  Something got lost here.