Russian lessons

[carraig]

Hi, Im not sure if this is the right section for this topic, but as Im still a sort of newby, Im posting it here!
I am about to enrol on a night class for Russian language lessons. The cost is £86.00 for a semester (September - December) at 2 x hours a time. Has any one ever taken this approach?? how usefull was it? did it really make a difference??
Experiences appreciated!

[chivo]

Carraig,

It will be useful in that you will get acquainted with the alphabet, help you learn a few numbers, words and phrases, and possibly help you when you read Cyrillic.

I'm not sure where you are with your Russian now, but I'm assuming you know very little at this point.

Obviously I wouldn't be of the mindset that you'll be anywhere close to understanding the language at the end of the course, but you should know more about the grammer (very tricky), feel less intimidated by the language, and maybe even be able to navigate your way around a Russian city by yourself should you chose to do so.

I always suggest to learn as much about the language of your lady (in this case a RW) as possible, and you do have to start somewhere.

I think the class along with a CD course such as Pimsleur would be a good start. Of course a good teacher will make a difference.

The money your suggesting is nominal, and certainly worth the effort.

If you're looking at fluency, or close to it, as a final destination, think along the lines of 5-10 years...if ever . Good luck.

chivo

[Turboguy]

Russian is not an easy language to learn.   I have tried virtually every recorded or computer program there is.  Personally I think doing what you are planning is great and I think class rooms are a far better way to go than programs like Pimsleur.  I will agree with Chivo that the Pimsleur set would be a good add on or follow up if you don't continue with your classes after December. 

Knowing a little Russian and the alphabet is a tremendous help when you travel there. 

[carraig]

Thanks guys, I agree, just learning the cyrillic alphabet would be a good help, I have already been to Ukraine once and I would have liked to understand even basic things like street signs etc. I have been using a cd "VISA RUSSIAN LANGUAGE COURSE" to learn some very basic phrases, (£4 from e-bay! lol) but even using them was bringing some Ukrainians into fits of laughter at my attempts. I doubt I would ever become fluent at Russian, but I would like people to know that I at least will make the effort to speak their own language!

[jb]

I doubt I would ever become fluent at Russian

Trust me,,, you won't.   Taking Russian language classes will only make you wonder how, over there, even the little kids can speak Russian.  It's hard...

Best thing to do is to learn to read the alphabet, learn it by rote, you can navigate with a city street map if you can match up the road signs.  Following a Moscow Metro map is the next level.  Learning a few phrases is important, the most important is how to ask "WTF are we?" as you point to your map.  You'd be a lot better off selecting a woman/girl who already speaks English and let her show you around.  As her love interest of the moment, she will make sure you don't screw up too badly and don't get lost too often.   

Been there, done that.

[ScottinCrimea]

Someone once described learning Russian very well.  They said, "With most languages, the more you learn the easier it gets.  With Russian, the more you learn the more difficult it gets."  Every time I think I have a concept down, they throw another curve at me.  Still, I think taking a course is a great idea for you.  Even if you only get to the "dog" stage, where you understand most everything but can say nothing, it's a great help and you can be sure that your efforts will be appreciated both by your lady and those you interact with in the FSU.

It does require a lot of patience, though.  Even after two years of actually living in Ukraine, I wouldn't necessarily call myself fluent.  I can understand maybe 85% of what I hear and read and can express my needs and wants but fully expressing my ideas is still going to take awhile.  Still, it is a tremendous advantage in communicating with my wife in English or helping her with her English because I can phrase things in ways that is more understandable to her.

[Vaughn]

I agree with jb, you'll never be fluent - unless you make it your dedicated mission
in life - and few have the time, ability nor desire to pull that off. Your efforts will
be appreciated, and you will have a deeper sense of enjoyment on your every visit.
I'm sure you know the "laughing" is good-natured; hell, I laugh each time my wife
mispronounces "unusual" as "unusunal" and she likewise is ticked at my lousy soft L's.

Take the course, and practice, practice. Picking up new verbs and phrases is sort
of my hobby - long term half fast speaker I am - and I'm nowhere near fluent, but
I can go shopping, navigate my way, and speak enough to get by without
crutches. That satisfies me.

Scott's opportunity to actually live over there for a few years was invaluable in
absorbing what is a very difficult language.

[SANDRO43]

Carraig, I endorse what most others say about taking a "traditional" class to learn the basics of Russian, at least you'll be able to ask questions when you don't understand something.

Now, depending on your current status (you say "Looking" but your avatar shows company ), the gender of your Russian teacher might also be a factor to consider .

[carraig]

Now, depending on your current status (you say "Looking" but your avatar shows company ), the gender of your Russian teacher might also be a factor to consider .
[/quote]

Sorry, I forgot to adjust my settings, thats me and Olga, a few weeks ago in Prague!
I will find out next week what gender the teacher is ??? I am also curios to see the make up of the class! maybe Im not the only guy who is pursuing a FSU lady!
BTW!! I made a mistake with the price I quoted, its £68.00 not £86.00

[SANDRO43]

Sorry, I forgot to adjust my settings, thats me and Olga, a few weeks ago in Prague!
I will find out next week what gender the teacher is ???

In that case, it would be wiser to give any SmokinTeacHotkova a wide berth .

[FredC]

From my own limited experience, the single most expensive part of my travel budget has been the cost of the interpreter. I have started the Rosetta Stone Russian course. I would take a classroom lesson if one were available in my area.

[Taz]

I was in the process of finishing up a new topic regarding learning this. It is in a different thread. Classes have benefits but often don't meet frequently enough to really help.

[2tallbill]

I think that for most learning Russian is like eating an elephant. You just can’t eat the bugger in a day a week or a month. But if you eat an elephant sandwich every day for two or three years then you will have eaten the entire thing. It’s the same with Russian except that if you miss a couple of elephant sandwiches (elephant gets boring after a hundred sandwiches) you have to eat them again.

There are a few (very few) people who are given a gift from God who can learn languages like Monet can paint or like Mozart could compose music. Most people don’t have this gift.

Just my two kopecks,


Bill

[Turboguy]

I am sorry, I just can't resist this.

Bill, there are some people who feel we should all post only things we have direct experience with.  Therefore I have to ask if you have really tried eating an elephant or what qualifies you to post on this topic?  Perhaps you have a friend or associate who has actually eaten an entire elephant.   Have you done time studies.

Perhaps if each of the 2000 members here would kick in $ 10 or so we can buy you a dead elephant so you can have factual information to post.  If you feel a need to continue to post on this topic could you at least research the price of dead elephants for us so we can determine the feasibility of a time study?

[Jet]

I am sorry, I just can't resist this.

 

[I/O]

Turbo: How's about posting something of value. I thought Bill's analogy was rather accurate, however in my case I have never had much desire for eating elephants (Russian language) other than enough to not be totally ignorant of what is happening around me when I visit.

I'd never discourage anyone from trying to learn the language of their foreign girlfriend, but frankly I think it is overvalued by many. I see far more value in placing time resources in other areas during the search phase. After you hook up with someone, put those resources into her language skills. Ultimately she is going to need them one way or another.

The knights in armour brigade throw their hands up in horror by saying, if she can learn your language, you should learn hers. Yeah, whatever. Bring on the pussywhips. She decided to seek a foreign husband, she knows the deal. If she doesn't understand the deal, go find someone who does, there is plenty of choices.

I/O

[catzenmouse]

While the analogy may be a good one I thought it was damn funny TG. 

[jb]

I/O is right.  During the search phase, a man should learn to read the alphabet so as to be able to navigate the Metro and recognize Street signs (presuming of course, he can read a map), should he find himself alone in a country that speaks little or zero English.  He should be able to order food from a menu and give rudimentary instructions to a Taxi, beyond that he's wasting his time.  After the little woman is firmly placed in her new home she needs to get her English up to speed ASAP, letting her speak Russian at home isn't going to help her get adapted to her new country.

After a few years living in an English speaking country, (even the US), a fairly sharp woman will be speaking English with the best of them.  Of course, when she makes friends and meets with another RW, the Russian will fly at a machine gun pace for a little while, then it's back to English and the real world.

If I were a newbie just starting out, I wouldn't worry about becoming fluent in Russian, just learn enough to get by with.

[I/O]

I/O is right. 

Obviously you ain't looking for any friends here JB. That's almost fightin' words round these parts recently.

I smile at the notion pushed by some of being able to avoid being taken for a ride if you can speak a little Russian, funny how the passport control guy who tried to stitch me with "you have a problem" understood "Well phucin well fix it" quite well and many a taxi driver with no English has understood "phuc off" quite well when I tired of their BS.

I/O

[Turboguy]

I am glad you enjoyed that Ken.   I do agree that it is very worthwhile to try to learn some Russian.   I think anyone wanting to be fluent before making a trip to meet potential women would be making a big mistake.   That is a huge task and not all that important unless he plans to live there. 

I have heard, and I believe, that you do in life those things you consider really important.   I played with learning some Russian for a long, long time.  Languages never came easy for me.  Even in High School my most difficult subject and the one I had the worst grades in was French.  It is really helpful to be able to read street signs, to know the word for restaurant and a few phrases.   I never did learn or feel the need for the words for fluck off.  I don't need it much in English either. 

Women seem to really appreciate that someone has made the effort to learn some of their language.  I guess for me it shows the success I had because it often gave them a good laugh.

I look at VWRW and her efforts.  She amazes me a always but she works her tail off to learn English.  To her it is important.  She spends hours and hours every single day.  I am sure if I made that effort to learn Russian I would be far ahead of where I am and at this point I no longer put effort into learning Russian.  You need a woman who will try hard to adapt to your country and it's language.  Learning hers is a nice touch but not life and death.  It can make your trips much easier.

[jb]

Obviously you ain't looking for any friends here JB.

Never have,,, never will.  People either see some value in my experience, or they don't.

[Daveman]

I agree that it isn't really important to speak fluent Russian, or even well prior to making a visit.  I think knowing a little certainly comes in handy and can make one's experience in FSU more interesting by expanding the circle of interaction to include many of the locals.

The choice to learn Russian for me was pretty simple.  Short version - someone said,  "you can't do it, it's too difficult".. which triggered my normal "phuc you, watch me" response.. and the rest is history in progress.  Shoving the words of idiots right down their throats, taking out a couple teeth in the process with a bright smile on my face is one of my favorite past times.  God I love that...

While obviously a questionable beginning, I certainly don't regret it a bit.  But necessary? nope.. don't bother with it unless you are really into it.

Dave

[SANDRO43]

Could we agree that it would be nice though not essential to have some fluency in Russian ?

When I am in an English-, French- or Spanish-speaking country:
- I can understand more about places, situations and people.
- Local people appreciate my communicating with them in their native language, and this opens doors that otherwise would be shut, or barely ajar if I didn't.

I already recounted how having a smattering of Arabic allows me to handle Moroccan windshield-cleaners at intersections. By the time they recover from the surprise of hearing a few Arabic words, the traffic light has already turned green and I am off with an ! السلام عليكم (as salaamu aleikum), and a smile following me .

[Jumper]

jb said

I/O is right.  During the search phase, a man should learn to read the alphabet so as to be able to navigate the Metro and recognize Street signs (presuming of course, he can read a map), should he find himself alone in a country that speaks little or zero English.  He should be able to order food from a menu and give rudimentary instructions to a Taxi, beyond that he's wasting his time.  After the little woman is firmly placed in her new home she needs to get her English up to speed ASAP, letting her speak Russian at home isn't going to help her get adapted to her new country.

After a few years living in an English speaking country, (even the US), a fairly sharp woman will be speaking English with the best of them.  Of course, when she makes friends and meets with another RW, the Russian will fly at a machine gun pace for a little while, then it's back to English and the real world.


If I were a newbie just starting out, I wouldn't worry about becoming fluent in Russian, just learn enough to get by with.
 

matches my experience.


i DO think anyone traveling there should learn more than a passing phrase.

do yourself a huge favor.. by learning the alphabet
Russian is very phonic (why isn't phonic, spelled fonic?)
and there are some familier words and signs that just simple crylicc will let you understand.. 
restaurant, bar , taxi, airport, telephone ,pharmacy, ,
just to name a  few.

as a traveler ,to not prepare yourself just a little,, when it is not that difficult is silly.

My advice is to learn some basics.
Learn enough to generally be polite, and let preople know what you want.

while Russian is extreemly difficult to become fluent in,
it is not climbing mt everest to just learn the common phrases
you might need  to get your point across!

your grammer may be horrible , but if it gets you by, your demeanor and confidence level while traveling in a country where few speak english,
 will be much better and you will likely be more *yourself*.
.just how much is that worth to you , when meeting a potential partner?


I would say this isnt about learning the language to communicate with your potential spouse,
(although a basic understanding WILL let you phrase your english in alight more easily understood)

this is more often about learning enough to make you more comfortable, and able to handle routine situations during your travel and stay there.
IMHO

i recently was in italy, and felt a fool because I did not learn any italian beforehand, Thats the first time ive ever been traveling anywhere,without at least learning some basics.while we managed,  a little Italian would have made things much easier- it was dumb on my part and it wont happen again.



 
 

[Serebro]

I have  met  WESTERN people who spoke perfect Russian maybe twice in my life(their ancestors migrated from Russia about 100 ago, they had a bad accent but they only made a couple of mistakes).
Even politicians, even workers of embassies don't know it very well, they can speak good Russian or very good Russian but not perfect Russian.(and it's not about their accent)
Sometimes people who have/had Russian parents and moved from Russia at a very early age can speak perfect Russian but I can't say the same about people who start learning Russian RSL when they are adults and they learn it very well.

At the same time I know a couple of students from Lebanon who speak nearly perfect Russian and they started learning it about 2-3 years ago...