Bringing the family

[DKMM]

My brother had a 6am flight back to SVO for his flight home.  We got up at 4am to meet his taxi.  The taxi E called for called us and said they were outside.  We go outside, no taxi.  I go back in E is on the phone with the operator and the operator is arguing with her about the existance of our building.  The building number is one of those corner deals, and it was where two main streets in downtown st. pete meet up next to a canal.  It is physically impossible for there to be another corner where these two roads meet up, the the operator insisted that there is no 16/19 so they sent the taxi to the building 19 on the same street which is apparently not too far away.  for 5 minutes they go back and forth, E clearly getting pissed at the stubborn stupid operator who refused to tell their taxi to come to our building up the street. 

Finally I went outside to find the building when a guy drove buy and asked if we needed a taxi.  He pulled a taxi sign from under his seat and said "taxi?"  I half expected him to put it on the roof of his car... My brother butted in with his poor russian to try to negotiate a deal.  That's my bro, trying to bargain down his only chance at making the airport in time.  Well the guy went for it finally and brother was away.

On the way the guy asked him if he liked the city and the girls.  He saw a bunch of guys beating a guy severly on the sidewalk on the way.  The driver just shook his head... Even though we both told him Pulkovo 1, he took him to Pulkovo 2 after he found out he was American.  When he arrived he just parked outside the gate (airport not open yet) and got out of his car and left!!  So my bro got his crap out and hailed an official taxi nearby. 

As if he wasn't getting enough craziness on his way out of this crazy country, his plane was a TU-134 from about 1959 and surprise(!) it was late.  So he missed his Delta flight again and had to catch another Aeroflot back home.

Back at camp I was snoozing away my final morning with E till 10.  We had a couple hours to kill so we got breakfast (Mom payed for this one which sparked the conversation about who pays in America) and walked around the city one last time.

At long last we were away, and the 3 of us wandered down to Nevsky to catch a ride, a little late by my standards but E was sure we'd make it.  We found a tiny hatchback and piled our crap in for 500 rub.  There was barely room for one in the back but little E sat on my lap and we were packed solid in this car with our luggage.  I learned that Russia actually has seatbelt laws in this moment of our journey.  Fortunately it wasn't the hard way! 

We split up at Pulkovo 2 and I snuck one last kiss with E.  She was embarassed to kiss me because she said the driver could see it!  Ahhh so modest.

Well as it turns out, Air Berlin is so ghetto they don't fly out of Pulkovo 2 so we had to pay 600 rub just to transfer to Pulkovo 1!! 

[DKMM]

~~The nightmare~~

I knew something was amiss when we couldn't even pull up to the terminal.  In a better day, Pulkovo was like an American airport where the departures and arrivals had their own levels and doors.  Now everybody goes in the same doors people come out and of course as all airports in Russia have now you must past security just to enter the building.  Anyways, there was a line of cars leading up to this terminal so we drove around the parking lot and over some landscaping to make our own path to the parking lot.  It got us close enough after I hopped over some trenches they built in between (no liability laws here).  There was a huge line to get inside and tons of people waiting outside for arrivals.  Most of them were "southern" looking and not speaking Russian.  There was a line to get to the room to clear the security but inside the room it was just whoever could push their way up would get through.  My mom was getting worried and pissed so I pushed her in front of me to get us through the line.  Pure chaos and the guards acted like they would much rather do anything than care.

Inside, you have to clear customs before you check in.  Well there were four of these "lines" to get in and about 1000 people all late for their planes trying to get through.  No lines just mobs of people.  Guys were litterally fighting each other to get up to this line.  It was horrible and this was the moment that my mom said she will never return to this country.  I was trying to keep her calm while figuring out what would happen if we missed our one flight outta there.  after a half hour we managed to get close to the door.  This is where it was intense.  You could barely breathe because of the crush of people.  I never knew human beings could behave like this honestly, although I've heard stories of such things.  I was getting rather pissed as a lot of cutters managed to worm their way ahead of our mini mob of people we ended up tangled with.  And when my mom got pushed by some flathead I nearly lost it myself and vowed to never fly out of Pulkovo 1 ever again.  I was holding myself up with all my strength and I'm a tall very in shape man.  Just when we thought it was game over, we both literally got pushed through to the front of the line.  I think it was our wall of suitcases or something but we squeezed through like water out of the balloon.  I was never so happy in my life to walk through a metal detector.

We got to the check in at about 10 minutes before our flight was to take off and surprise there were still 20 of us checking in.  Some foreign women (germans I think) were crying, one was in complete hysterics after making it in.  Probably some more people who will never return.

After checking in, we got in another line for passport control.  Here I learned that other flights checking in were to undesirable locations such as Azerbaijan and other former republics.  I hope its the last time I see people from that country.  People had all sorts of ideas on how to cut in this line and more shoving and arguements broke out.  One group of guys were brawling right in front of the stamp lady window and she just started yelling at them.  Finally a guard appeared and yelled at all of them to step back.  Lucky for me it wasn't in my line.  I made friends with a Russian guy in my line and he blamed it on the dark skinned people (which at the time was a fairly accurate statement).  He stuck with me though because we were on the same flight.

A family tried to cut in our line and some men in front of me got pissed.  They went up to guard our line from cutters by forming a human wall.  Imagine the absurdity of this in an airport passport line?  That's why when people whine about American passport lines I want to just laugh at their stupid a$$.  Actually the concept of passport lines just to leave a country shows just how far Russia needs to go to liberate their own people but thats for another thread.

We got through a half hour after departure.  Still our gate was calling us out.  We rushed in and made our way down to the bus.  It was packed with people and so full that the door couldn't quite close because me and mom were wedged in the way.  No matter we got going in a hurry.  It was soo good to be on that plane.

In Berlin for a stop over we both fell asleep at 7 and woke up at 8am the next day for the flight.  Probably the best night of sleep I can ever remember having.  If you ever stop over there, I highly recommend the Mercure Airport Hotel.

On the plane from Amsterdam to Minneapolis something interesting happened.  When we landed the purser came up to a guy 2 rows in front of us and asked for his passport and she was pissed!  He gave it to her (he was german).  Then when we parked, they told us all to sit back down for a security situation.  Two big cops came on the plane and took this German guy off.  as we walked off, i saw more cops talking to the girl that had previously been sitting next to him... anyways it was a strange end to a bizarre set of events to get home. 

[BillyB]

Pushing and shoving seems to be a normal way of life in the FSU. Probably a trait picked up when people had to go through many lines, a line to get bread, a line to get toilet paper and so on. If you don't push to get what you want quick, you wait a long, long, long time. A Russian guy told me he remembered the days where he had to wait hours in line for gasoline during the Communist years. He said if the attendants decide to shut down for the day and go home, as a driver you have two choices, come back tomorrow and get to the rear of the line again or stay in line by sleeping there overnight.

I am one of many people who have had many unpleasant experiences in FSU airports. Only one thing keeping me coming back for that kind of punishment.

[William3rd]

Pulkovo seems to have changed alot in just a couple years. I made over 80 roundtrips through that airport from 1998 through December 2005 and never had that kind of experience. Even through the airport remodel, it was never remotely like it is being described. Looks like prosperity must have ruined the place. . . .

[ScottinCrimea]

That mob scene reminds me of my experience entering Ukraine from Poland.  I swear there were times when I literally could not move my arms from my sides because of the pressure of the crowd from every side.  One woman in the crowd had her arm broken when she caught it in a fence.  It also reminds me of my first (and last) outdoor Jimmy Buffet concert, with a mob of people trying to fight their way in.  The only difference was that the Buffet crowd were all drunk with several vomiting on whoever happened to be unlucky enough to be nex to them.

[wiz]

DKMM

Very interesting travel report with many observations on your part about Russia, Russian people’s habits and so many other things but as KenC said these are your own observations and not necessary the same as of other people visiting Russia.

I visited St Petersburg in 2004 and frankly I was pleasantry surprised to go through so clean and orderly airport. As William said obviously things have changed dramatically according to the nightmare picture you described.

This year I have visited Russia 7 times, sofar, and every time I have used Aeroflot from London with final destination the Ufa airport. To be honest I got to know the SVO airport very well and like JB, I have not had any problems, whatsoever, going through there. I think Terminal 2 is a very modern airport Terminal and is getting better by the day and I have seen the changes in the past 9 months. In actual fact as my connecting flight to Ufa is always 4 hours later from Term 1, I have plenty of time to sit, smoke (Opposite the toilet you mention) and chat to dear Jazzy, before going through Immigration and from there I can see the lines and when one gets smaller I move fast. I never had more than 20 minutes waiting time to go through immigration. Terminal 1 is a shabby one but now they have build Terminal 3 and soon it will get better, and if you are a seasoned traveller then you should not have any problems there also, like those experiences I read from some American posters here and elsewhere who simply have not a clue how to travel abroad.

I agree with William that LAX and JFK are terrible airports to go through and to be frank I dread my next trip to San Diego to see my grandchildren because is not a pleasant experience after 10 hours flight.

Traffic in Moscow is bad most of the time and I have been through a couple of times but it is the same in London and especially on the M25, a ring road around London, which many people use to go to the 4 London airports. It becomes car park most of the days because of accidents and the huge volume of traffic. Drivers here doing same stupid things as your driver in Moscow and I think your clear panic came through your report and it’s your own fault as you left not enough time to go to the airport on time.

During my many trips in Russia I grown to like the country and to be honest I do like the Russian people, when I got to know them and learn so many aspects of their lives and culture. Of course there are a lot of things I don’t like there and been a big mouth I do criticise them a lot for the wrong things I see (in my opinion) and I have my own way of dealing with their indifferent and ignorant attitude, when it come to good service. For example, I will never buy anything in any shop if when we walk in and the sales person does not show me and my companion any interest. With my previous RW and also the current one I had many instances that I refused to buy anything despite they wanted to deal the Russian way and walked out of the shops…. So now they both learned and accepted my view about the bad service and agree with my point of view that the customer is king, so I have no problems anymore. When visiting the supermarkets I always make joke of the girls on the tills with serious faces and always make them smile by asking them first HOW MUCH IT WIL COST ME FOR THEM TO SMILE (in Russian language) and then I pay my bill. Of course second time round when they see my face I always get a smile from them without asking the same question!

Don’t forget that the Russian people have learn to accept the bad service and attitudes and is very difficult for them to change their habits easily, and nobody will take the initiative to do something about it, as they have survival as more important thing in their lives.

You may think Russia is a crazy country and it people have some bad habits and partly I agree with you, but I like it there despite its failures. Don’t forget “When in Rome do as the Romans do” and I am sure you will come to love it too. I am very fond of Russia and Russian people because it reminds me of my own country (Greece) back in the 60’s.

Serebro

I know that Russian people are very critical of their own country and people and they are very sensitive and don’t like foreign people's criticism but don’t take it personally, as everybody is entitled to his own opinion and Russian people do criticise other countries too!
I will defend my own country to death but of course I will also accept reasonable criticism too.

[Serebro]

Pulkovo seems to have changed alot in just a couple years. I made over 80 roundtrips through that airport from 1998 through December 2005 and never had that kind of experience. Even through the airport remodel, it was never remotely like it is being described. Looks like prosperity must have ruined the place. . . .

wiz

This year I have visited Russia 7 times, sofar, and every time I have used Aeroflot from London with final destination the Ufa airport. To be honest I got to know the SVO airport very well and like JB, I have not had any problems, whatsoever, going through there.

I have been to SVO for about 5 times and I have never had any bad experience, too.At least THAT bad experience.
I have never seen people being beaten up in streets, the worst thing that I felt was heavy traffic, but I don't think that any large city which is the capital of the huge state is very different.
I have never argued with taxi drivers and the dispatchers, on the opposite-I was found by them very very fast, so I was and I am trully surprised what city DKMM has described here.
I have read many threads about people visiting Russia here and have never interfered that way but this story just sound VERY unreal to me.Maybe it is real, but I don't know the real reason , maybe DKMM is just this type of the person who get themselves into trouble everywhere.(read the part about Amsterdam).I don't think that it's very bad, at least you can find entertainment and adventures everywhere and you life is never boring.

I remember one day I read a very long story of one young student who had visited the USA on a students' exchange programm and his life had been full of adventures of any kind-both good and bad ones, the story was very detailed, as I remember it was more than 40 pages long and it had a name like "Take a week-off to read it":)His story was full of everything-he had to sell his Russian car to go to America(he came back without money at all btw), then  he couldn't find the place where he was supposed to live as he got to one town in one state instread of the town with the same name in another state as he had bought a wrong bus ticket and he had to go to some place for one night by foot under heavy rain with his travel bag and cars didn't stop to pick him up.He had some trouble with back people who promised to kill him, with mafia, with police, finally he decided to go to NYC to earn some money in order not to come back home without it and he was stolen his last money there so he had to call to the Russian embassy and they helped him to come back. As I have already told the story was very long and detailed but that man had made an introduction where he had explained that he is an extremely unlucky person though he is a big optimist and very adventurous.And that in fact life there isn't that bad but he was very unlucky and that his story was probably one in a million...

[KenC]

Serebro,
Now that is the way to get your points across!  Examples of experiences that are contrary to DKMM's report.  I sincerely hope you see the difference between that tactic and just disagreeing with DKMM's opinion.

There is a lot in DKMM's T/R to criticize IMO.  How any grown man would take his Momma and brother to approve his fiancee selection, is beyond my comprehension.  These actions and many others in DKMM's past actions make me more than doubt his maturity level to marry any woman.  In fact, I pity the woman he chooses.  This "romance" is a train wreck in the making!
KenC

[DKMM]

yes the mob scene was very real and this was Pulkovo 1.  E went through the same thing in another part of the same airport and she told me it was the worst thing she had experienced since a chaotic train station scene from her youth trying to flee the Azeri civil war that had just broken out.  I'm sure it was just bad timing but I'm just reporting it as it happened, YMMV.  Maybe the oil money is making things worse in some ways...

Wiz,
Don't take the wrong idea here.  The chaos doesn't deter me, I'll keep coming back to my favorite country in the world!  I complain about it, but I will keep returning.  As for my bro, he liked the craziness too but will not be bringing the wife when he returns.

Serebro,
You mistake me for my brother. 

Ken,
In the dog house again?  I could return the favor but I'll let you just sit in your ignorance.

[Jazzyclassy]

   These actions and many others in DKMM's past actions make me more than doubt his maturity level to marry any woman.  In fact, I pity the woman he chooses.  This "romance" is a train wreck in the making!
KenC           

well I would not criticise him, we all have lacks and  what DKMM is doing it is his personal choice and his own life , if he is going to make mistakes and it is natural , let him do this,( they will make him stringer, more mature, independent and develop his will power) if he can not learn on anyone's mistakes and advice- that is how almost all people are, we learn on our own mistakes.

I agree by posting any sort of personal experience on any board one should be ready for critics and some negative points , but that does not mean we have  the right to keep pushing on his psyche, how immature and little child he/she is , one probably knows himself/herself the level of his actions anyway and the reasons and the circumstances....

In person DKMM is a very friendly guy with a nice outlook about the world yes he is naive but that only emphasis that in many questions his soul is pure and he can not see the danger  in people, one can not be blamed for that

[Turboguy]

There is a lot in DKMM's T/R to criticize IMO.  How any grown man would take his Momma and brother to approve his fiancee selection, is beyond my comprehension.  These actions and many others in DKMM's past actions make me more than doubt his maturity level to marry any woman.  In fact, I pity the woman he chooses.  This "romance" is a train wreck in the making!
KenC

Ken, you often offer some great advice and comments but I have to say that one is about as far off as you can get.   

Ken, let me ask you this.  Have you ever read (or given) the comment that if you are serious about a woman and have not met HER family and friends it is a major red flag.   What could possibly be wrong with letting her met YOUR family.  There was nothing in his report that it was for APPROVAL.   I think it is wonderful that his family is close enough and interested enough to go meet her there and to want to understand her world and meet her.   I think it would be a sign to her that she is joining a loving family and that she will have support from them as well as him.   I have seen cases where the family disapproves and has made the guy's life   Just remember he did not take them along for the selection process.   They are already engaged.   You can rate this as a train wreck in the making if you want but I will rate it as he who is most likely to succeed.

[wiz]

Turbo

I agree with you that nothing is wrong with DKMM taking his family to meet the other family and his woman. In my view he shows respect to his family and as you say it is good that they made the effort to go all the way to Russia, as they can afford to do that.

Does anybody here think that DKMM needs his mother permission to marry this girl? Personally I don't think so and I am sure he would marry this girl come whatever, even if the family and mom express disapproval. After all he is 29 yrs old and a love puppy and he will not listen to anybody. At that age we all do whatever we think is right for us and take no notice to our parents.

When I met my ex wife in Corfu and after living with her for a year introduced her to my mother I had a very negative reaction from her for the simple reason that my ex was a foreigner. My mother changed her tune after our wedding, became very protective toward my ex and was very proud too!

Personally I have other misgivings about DKMM's actions regarding his relationship and in one word..... very little face time and he is moving very fast, without getting to know her very well. He also has the additional problem of trust and in the back of his mind always will be the question "Did she marry me for my money?". Russian Women are not stupid and sure they know quickly if you are wealthy or not! That is the main problem that he will have to live with.

I know the problem about logistics and time limits etc...... because of the distances but let's not forget Groov's example for a successful end.

Groov said: "You should not marry a Russian woman if she is not crazy about you".....and that should be the guidance for a succesfull relationship.

Personally I follow the same pattern, as I did with all my ex's, with my current RW and try to have as much face time as possible, already 4 visits and over a month living like a husband and wife and she is coming here for very long Christmas (1 month).

I will not introduce her to my son's untill I am very sure that she is the one for me.

[KenC]

well I would not criticise him, we all have lacks and  what DKMM is doing it is his personal choice and his own life , if he is going to make mistakes and it is natural , let him do this,( they will make him stringer, more mature, independent and develop his will power) if he can not learn on anyone's mistakes and advice- that is how almost all people are, we learn on our own mistakes.

I agree by posting any sort of personal experience on any board one should be ready for critics and some negative points , but that does not mean we have  the right to keep pushing on his psyche, how immature and little child he/she is , one probably knows himself/herself the level of his actions anyway and the reasons and the circumstances....

In person DKMM is a very friendly guy with a nice outlook about the world yes he is naive but that only emphasis that in many questions his soul is pure and he can not see the danger  in people, one can not be blamed for that

Jazzy,
I never said DKMM was not a pleasant guy, but personally I cannot tolerate such dependent guys that are so unsure of their actons they need their Momma to approve.  I quit asking for my Momma's approval at about 16.

How do most RW view such men, Jazzy?  I would like to hear YOUR opinion on guys like DKMM?   (I have to use the term "guy" with DKMM because to call him a "man" sticks in my throat)

Serebro, Lily, Blues Fairy or any other RW's opinion here would be interesting.

Jazzy, it would be all fine and good if this man-child was only going to hurt himself, but what about the poor RW being sucked into his half developed life?  How bright is her future?
KenC

[Turboguy]

And just where did you read that he was looking for thier approval or leaving the decision up to them.   They were already engaged, the decision was made.   I take it when Lena got here you did not introduce her to your parents.   What is the difference between here and there.   I think it is wonderful that his family wanted to go and learn about her country and show thier support and interest in his future wife. 

[Jazzyclassy]

Well, he is learning,  I do not think his mom approved it or not, I also think she just came to get acquainted and to meet his fiancee

Many young boys are lucky who get independent when they are 16 y.o. some people do not have such chance and opportunity

yes, he is a bit much too concerned about what his mom says , but that is natural , that is his mother, whose opinion he appreciates and respects so much , he is grateful to know about her opinion, but that does not mean he will change it in her favour , personally I think so. I might be wrong, I am not American I do not know how young American guys usually do things , so it is hard to say something

I just wish him happiness and prosperity

Just because he is young and doing things a bit different than other people have done on someone's point of view, does not make him silly , stupid or miserable , he is going to marry the girl of his age and that is already my respect he is in too way hurry , I know , but that is just how he does it, I am not saying it is right , if I was him I would not marry so quick , but he is not me  so that's his own life

[KenC]

Well, he is learning,  I do not think his mom approved it or not, I also think she just came to get acquainted and to meet his fiancee

Many young boys are lucky who get independent when they are 16 y.o. some people do not have such chance and opportunity

"Luck" has nothing to do with being an independent self sufficient person.  It is more of a character issue.  Some have it, some don't.

yes, he is a bit much too concerned about what his mom says , but that is natural

Natural to whom?  A Momma's boy too unsure of his own actions?  Look at how much DKMM vascilated on buying a fake diamond until the group here pressured him from doing something foolish.

, that is his mother, whose opinion he appreciates and respects so much , he is grateful to know about her opinion, but that does not mean he will change it in her favour , personally I think so. I might be wrong, I am not American I do not know how young American guys usually do things , so it is hard to say something

First time you let that stop you from giving your opinion.   Jazzy, I have a son a few years younger than DKMM, and if he acted as immature as DKMM, I'd slap him upside his head!

I just wish him happiness and prosperity

As do I.  But I have little hope for that because of his gross immaturity.

Just because he is young and doing things a bit different than other people have done on someone's point of view, does not make him silly , stupid or miserable

Where did I say that?  But if the shoe fits......

he is going to marry the girl of his age and that is already my respect

So because he choose an age appropriate girl, everything will be OK?  I doubt it.

he is in too way hurry , I know , but that is just how he does it, I am not saying it is right , if I was him I would not marry so quick , but he is not me  so that's his own life

Yes he has a right to make a mess of his own life, but I feel for the girl as I doubt she has any idea of what she is getting into with this immature relationship.
KenC

[jb]

Yes he has a right to make a mess of his own life, but I feel for the girl as I doubt she has any idea of what she is getting into with this immature relationship.
KenC

Ken,  In all likelyhood, she is every bit as immature as he is.

[DKMM]

Jazzy,
Thanks

Turbo,
Correct, my family will support me in whatever choice I make.  They wanted to come meet her, its natural in a close family.  Since I live in a close family, E herself asked if I could bring them to meet her and her worried mom.  This all started as E's idea.
I am not of the typical American mold where we are all go our seperate ways at 18.  We are tight knit and that is probably because my parents were very loving and good role models all my life (and I'm sorry for people who did not have that).  My brother has always been one of my best friends and will be my best man.  I only hope to create a family just as great as the one I grew up in (and that is what E liked first about me).  

Wiz,
Correct again!  I'm not sure how I don't know my E as I've already spent 4 trips with her, logged 30 days face to face and speak to her on average an hour a day, twice everyday.  I've not gone a day without communicating with her since mid April.  You telling me most guys here spent more time than that before they got engaged?  Remember also that she speaks good English so we are able to get to know each other quite well.  It seems like a strange concept to suggest I don't know E well, although months ago that was true.  In any case, if Groovs guildlines stand, then I'm doing just fine.  We are spending another 2 weeks together in November but that's probably it until she gets here.

I had a bigger risk here in the US of a girl marrying me for my money.  E actually thinks I'm rather poor and is convinced she will need to get a job so we can save up to have a child.  In this regard I did my best to keep her expectations at a minimum, but there is only so much I can do.

Ken,
I'm guessing you don't have many friends.

[KenC]

Ken,  In all likelyhood, she is every bit as immature as he is.

jb,
You are prolly right there.  I cannot believe a mature RW would not run for the hills when a guy behaves like DKMM.  I asked Lena what she thought about his actions and her reply was "weird."
KenC

[DKMM]

I can take you old farts ragging on me all you want.  I'm sure it makes you feel better for some reason.  But to bash my E?  You dare try that to my face you old piece of shit.  This is why I don't use RWD anymore as it gets run over by the grumpy old men crowd.

I come on RWD to share my experiences and this is the thanks I get.  This is why I stopped using this site so much and honestly a lot of you think you know everything there is to know about getting an RW but that mostly applies to you old guys with younger women types.

Guess what guys the days of going to Russia and rescuing a young girl from poverty are over!  Congrats on your unequal marriages, I'm sure your lady loves you even if you were  broke.  I'm sure a lot of your friends that you don't have anymore see that you basically bought younger women.  

Ken how do you plan to deal with the fact your wife wants a child?  How is that going for you?  You must be home alone a lot since you spend your life on here.

jb,
You are for more immature than anyone my age I've ever met.  I honestly feel sorry for you.

When I finally get E here, this is the last place I'm going to waste my time with losers like you.

I'm done with this.

[jb]

Oh~! Kemo Sabe, you misunderstand...

My point was that you and she are so young and inexperienced, and you have both rushed into something that you do not fully comprehend.   I would like for you to have a good laugh at my expense on your 25th wedding anniversary,,, I just hope you aren't having a good cry on the day of your divorce in a few short years.  The blending of two cultures is dammed hard work, are you ready for that?

I don't dislike you DK, maybe that's a strange concept to you.  However, I see a young guy doing the K-1 after one trip, knowing little of what he's bought into, and I, just like KenC,,, I see a potential train wreck.  Please understand, we've seen all this stuff before.  The P/Gs, the T/Gs of this world,,, they think they have a handle on the elusive  inter-cultural relationship, and are very surprised when it all blows up in their faces.   T/G has done this twice before and was dead sure he knew what he was doing both times... Sorry for the truth here.    Confidence is one thing, foolhardiness is quite another.

Other than that,, Rah,,, Rah,,, go for it~!

[KenC]

DKMM,
You don't have the maturity to "go steady" let alone marry a woman from the fsu.

Us "old farts" (jb & I) have about 13 years more experience in being married to a RW than you, so run your naive big mouth when you get some experience OK?  When I start thinking of asking you for advice, I'll just shoot myself instead, OK?

Yeppers, I just "bought" my wife.  Got to resort to accusations like that?  How mature of you junior.  At least if I choose to use my financial position to secure a relationship, I wouldn't need a loan from my Momma to pull it off.
KenC

[jb]

Yeppers, I just "bought" my wife.

Jezzz, I missed that point.  Well, my friend, I'll set you square,,, I didn't buy my wife,,, I earned her.  By virtue of my superior education, by virtue of my better behavior, by virtue of my many trips to court and woo her, by virtue of my getting through the Moscow airport without condemning an entire race for their line holding ability, and by virtue of a whole host of things you have never had to overcome.  You are beginning to look like the classic "Ugly American",,, what an honor it is to do business with you, Sir.

[Vaughn]

DKMM,

  I never had the chance to meet my wife's father, and she came into my
life too late to meet either of my own parents. If there's anything we could
have had happen differently, it would address those facts.

  I also fail to see where you were asking for parental permission. I did sense
a parental blessing has value to you - and that's not a bad thing at all. There
was a point in my first marriage when it became absolutely necessary for she
and I to develop our own rhythm - without family opinion - and hence we left
our native Northport NY and moved to Texas - where we had the best years of
our lives together, without sacrificing the love and respect of family. This tidbit
is not brought to you offhandedly - and I don't know the strength of your
familial ties well at all - but consider that if your marriage is to survive and
fluorish, you two both have to blaze new trails, so to speak, and independently so.

 I'm one the OMBs at 57 who wants to wish you well - without disclaimer.

Vaughn

[jb]

Vaughn,

Everyone tells me I look your age, and/or even younger.  Although I am really much older.   When they say I'm "well perserved", I tell them; "no,,, I'm just well pickled".