Seeking a bit of an advice

[andrewfi]

I know a woman who married a Norwegian guy who was much older than she. SHe liked him, never loved him. She married him expecting that he would make her life better.

As far as she was concerned, sex was never a part of the deal. From day one she slept with her son. The relationship ended at the point at which he insisted upon sex. She moved back to Estonia, with her son. Strange thing is, the guy never actually divorced her. They became friends and he used to come over to visit her and her son. Turns out she is still 'married' to him. She thought he had divorced her until she received some paperwork from the Norwegian government about the guy's pension.

Also, do not think that a woman sleeping with her kids is somehow strange, it is not. Many famlies live in 'one room' apartments, where the living room is the bedroom. Of course the family will be sharing the same room. Convenience dictates that for a mother with one kid, a single sofa bed is used. Nothing strange is going on, just poverty in action.

The problem is reducing, but the average living area in Estonia is IIRC 26m per person. In Russia it is much less, again, by recollection, about 20m in 2000. For context, the Estonian figure is about half the European average and my 63m apartment, which here is a family home, provides the space that an average US resident would have to himself. 

[Maxx]

Also, do not think that a woman sleeping with her kids is somehow strange, it is not.

When there are two bedrooms and the wife decides to sleep with her son in his room instead of her husband's it becomes strained if not strange. I suppose for some couples this is normal and acceptable. For us MOB guys I think most of us expect our wives to be by our sides at night.

Another thing wrong with that arrangement is the mothers usually go to sleep when the children do. Then there isn't any time to be alone with their husbands. It is not just about the sex but the time to be alone during the quiet time when the children are asleep and be able to talk with each other.

As I explained to a Russian/Kazakastan couple I knew, children should revolve around the parents and not the parents around the children. He agreed with me. "The Little Prince / Little Tyrant syndrome" in so many FSU households has in my opinion created allot of disfunctional men. Babied by their mothers they resent it when they are pushed aside by their wives when their children come along. The alcohol and mistresses comes as a replacement. Of course there are other factors. I am just saying FSU mothers would do well to remember their husband's needs  instead of being totally devoted to their children. Also sometimes they get like she-bears driving off the father bear when the cubs arrive....

Maxx 

 

[andrewfi]

Maxx ~ I was not suggesting that for your ex-wife to sleep with her son, in your home, was right. It was not, just as it was not in the case of the woman I mentioned. It was an obvious indicator as to the kind of relationship the woman was willing to offer to her husband (you). In the case of my friend and her Norwegian, the relationship ended very fast, sensibly, he knew that things would not change and removed the woaman from his life. Taking the emotional hit first and fast saved him from the subsequent and ongoing years of turmoil that you have put up with.

I have read others posting about this phenomenon and have thought that the American posters were implying a somewhat prurient situation. My expansion was in order to explain the practical background for a behaviour that many Americans find distasteful and hard to understand.

[KenC]

Every family has it's own traditions in this area.  It may have begun as a space issue, but then just becomes part of the family make up.  My MIL shared a bedroom for sleeping with my wife while she was at home while my FIL had a bedroom to himself.  It is my understanding that my wife's babushka did pretty much the same.  From a practicality stand point, I enjoy that my wife and I have seperate bedrooms, but I also look forward to the late night visits too!

KenC

[Albert]

I am like KenC in that I like my own bedroom.  I actually cannot 'sleep' if someone is in bed with me.  Many of the FSU gals, as well as AW, complain when I won't let them sleep with me in same bed, but it is just impossible for me.  But the ones that I have spent a lot of time with all remember fondly (and mention it often) in the mornings when I say, Svetochka (or whomever), . . . .  come to me.

[Albert]

Andrewfin is right when he tells about how the women sometimes share beds with children.  I have even seen it with the woman and her male teenage son.  For the women, they think nothing sexual about it.  But I have told several that it is not healthy for the teenage boys to be sharing beds with them.  It sets up a lot of conflict problems for the boys, especially since many of these women in their mid 30s are pretty hot looking babes. 

I know it is a space problem, but I think the women need to be looking for other solutions such as two beds that slide one under the other and one can be moved to separate room or area of one room at nights.  I wonder if any sociological studies have been done concerning the effects on the teenagers from sleeping with a parent of opposite sex.

I also observe a lot of these women walking around in panties and bra in front of their teenage sons (and me) when they are getting dressed to go out with me, etc.  I again advise them that this is not good for the boys, but they just shrug off my suggestions.

I know there is the whole question of nudity norms, nude beaches and nude clubs for entire families, etc., but I am not sure how this all affects the psyche of the teenagers.

[corncrowe]

Every family has it's own traditions in this area.  It may have begun as a space issue, but then just becomes part of the family make up.  My MIL shared a bedroom for sleeping with my wife while she was at home while my FIL had a bedroom to himself.  It is my understanding that my wife's babushka did pretty much the same.  From a practicality stand point, I enjoy that my wife and I have seperate bedrooms, but I also look forward to the late night visits too!

KenC

KenC,

I tried to get my ex-wife to agree to separate houses while we were still married!!!  Guess I got my wish a little late...:-)

Jon

 

 

[Maxx]

I know a woman who married a Norwegian guy who was much older than she. SHe liked him, never loved him. She married him expecting that he would make her life better.

As far as she was concerned, sex was never a part of the deal. From day one she slept with her son. The relationship ended at the point at which he insisted upon sex. She moved back to Estonia, with her son. Strange thing is, the guy never actually divorced her. They became friends and he used to come over to visit her and her son. Turns out she is still 'married' to him. She thought he had divorced her until she received some paperwork from the Norwegian government about the guy's pension.

[/size]

I divorced mine 4 months after she arrived. It must be close to the record of quick getting a marriage over. It is more then the Norwegian guy did. As far as the point you will make in regard to my mentioning my situation as "not getting over with it" let me say this. Just 2 months ago I was reminded at an airport by security that my Russian ex-wife has placed me on a Federal watch list. I am in the Federal FAA computer base, certainly the INS and who knows where else. I mentioned this to my attorney and she was surprised. According to her my civil court judgment was only supposed to be entered in the Anoka County and the two cities police computers and is to be deleted this coming July 30th according to law. Do you think the Federal government of the United States is going to adhere to Minnesota State law and a local district court judge? Andrew, I have a Federal file on me and I go through additional security checks when I travel and you tell me to move on? I am trying but at my own pace and in my own way. 

There is only two good things that came from this. One, I am allot less niave than I once was. Two, my experience that I have shared may have some use to those who are wise enough to learn from it. Unfortunately few are. Of course who give a damn about anybody but ourselves? Right?

Maxx

[andrewfi]

Maxx~ You raised the point so...

You continually bleat about your problems and you terrible relationship, it is obvious that you take a perverse sort of pride in your plight. Whether you help others by continually picking over the scabs, or not, is moot.

In your Land of the Brave and the Free, one is placed on watch lists for almost anything. You are not special, this is your country and many millions of Americans 'enjoy' the benefits of being watched. I have no insight as to the veracity of your claim, but I guess that a man who was accused of an act of violence against his foreign wife might well be a candidate for a watch list in modern America.

Have you learned? Dunno, I guess there is one angel in, was it Tver, who gives the lie to that? At least you did not marry her.

There is a time to move on. You have threatened to do so on numerous occasions. Each time, eventually, you backslide into older behaviour patterns. Find a nice American woman, one who's culture you understand. I was really surprised that you did not know about the bedroom thing, after all you have been married to a Russian woman and her son. What else did you miss? What else are you still missing?

[BC]

When there are three beds and five people some kind of arrangement has to be made. I've seen it and don't have any negative second thoughts about it.

Regarding clothing or lack thereof around the house - quite European. We like see thru on the street but not at home?

Separate bedrooms or beds for man and wife though.. that's perverse:D ..but whatever rocks your boat is ok by me. Only regret is that I gave up 'my side' of the bed.. maybe I was too generous in offering.. my bust.

Maxx, I sorta have to agree along Andrew's lines.. it's time to move on.  Am happy to see you are posting here more often as it seemed the virtual ink you laid down on the 'old' board had definite gravitational effects. Let go.

Recovery can be fullfilling, but should not become a new more pleasant rut to stay in..

[jb]

This last few posts have me saying to myself; hummmmmmm.....

I am married to a woman who has had two sons and never slept with either of them after they were out of diapers.  She says that when a small baby is ill it is sometimes easier for the mother to care for the infant if she takes it to bed, that way she can get some sleep herself.  But she doesn't think it's healthy to continue to sleep in the same bed, regardless of age.  

In the case of overcrowding, pallets of warm bedding can be arranged on the floor for children.  They do not belong in the parent's bed at any time, especially if the mother and father are undressed, and casual nudity in front of teens is probably not healthy either.

I have read studies that question the origins of perverted behavior in humans, and while there is not much the experts fully agree on, they all seem to think a wacko gets off the rails pretty early.  Everyone knows even small children have erogenous zones on their little bodies, most of us have laughed to see a little guy with a boner.  Some experts have suggested that sexual developement starts as early as breast feeding.  Perhaps holding or touching the babe inapproapriately during breast feeding may begin to warp the persons outlook.  Who knows for sure?    Does it affect the marriagability of FSU women?  Possibly.  Sigmund Freud was obsessed with this stuff.

To be on the safe side, maybe a man should pay closer attention to the mother child relationship... Ooops~! what am I thinking here,,, that would require more than one trip.

[Maxx]

 I was really surprised that you did not know about the bedroom thing, after all you have been married to a Russian woman and her son. What else did you miss? What else are you still missing?

I made the assumption that Russian women would stop sleeping with their male children when they reached puberty. You know waking up with erections and wet dreams. 

To be completely clear about what I missed I have to bring up the past and I am not supposed to do that. Let's just say things were 100% different in Russia for me. What am I still missing? If I knew that I wouldn't be missing it.

Maxx  

 

[GQBlues]

My girlfriend's famous last words:

"...Darling, why you arrive to Russia and spend time only sleeping...."

Oh yes, I remember those words vividly. Her first 3 days in LA were mainly spent doing exactly 'only sleeping'.

"...Darling, you come to Russia and all the time you want to take taxi. 2 kilometers not so long for walking..."

A week and a half in Los Angeles, she had mysteriously forgotten the art of 'left foot forward, right foot forward'

"...Darling, it is summer. I am from Siberia and we have snow almost 8 months, how I can be cold in Los Angeles...."

She now understands what 'June Gloom' is all about. I have never experienced sleeping with all the windows closed, snuggled underneath a sheet, blanket, and a comforter; this time of year.

Yes, a week and a half ago that proverbial 'one small suitcase' arrived in my doorsteps, and I got to tell you, it reminded me of a time not so long ago when I took the same 'first steps' off the airport tarmac in this country.

My girlfriend arrived to try and live a life with me. She arrived with the same attitude of pursuing and living out our chance and opportunity as we have always often 'talked' about when I came to visit her in Russia. For us men, it is so very easy to get lost going to Russia and have those visitations revolve 'solely' on the obvious presence of sex, hoping only that somehow, in between sessions of swimming in between the sheets, life will one day happen.

I am empowered with the notion that I was right about Nataly so far. She's a wonderful gal. I am delighted that the approach I took during my visitations have yielded an understanding of her character so much better as if she had arrived within the confines of my personal design. I knew I would have never brought Nataly in my world if I never earned her trust and respect. We never would've gotten this far had we not done what we decided to do. The mutual attraction was very obvious, but the other two components really needed to take a place between us before we could've taken this relationship off the ground.

It was a tough year, and now ironically enough, it's been a fun-filled experience this past week and a half.

Yet so far - IT HAS ALL BEEN WORTH IT!

She had so far shown no sign of being homesick. She's adjusted to everything around her commendably. My friends adore her and she feels very much at ease with each of them. She's elated with my family because she had received so much endearement from everyone.

I know it's only been a week. This play is meant to last a lifetime. At least it is for us. 10 miles behind us and 10,000 more to go....The picture taken was during the 4th of July barbeque party we held for the benefit of Nataly's introduction to some of my friends. Nataly in the green sweater, my very good friend Janet, her BF Nick, Gary, and a good friend Tabitha and son Drake.

So far so good. In a week's time, her sister will arive for a month, followed shortly by Momma and Poppa. her other sister living in Germany can't make the trip because she and her husband had business to attend to in Turkey. Nonetheless, they are both in contact with us almost every other day. As soon as everyone arrives, we set sail to Hawaii for our wedding.

I'll be happy to address any question/s, or receive any tip and advice, any of you guys may have.

My Twilight Zone is coming to a close. Wish us life and good fortune.

 

[Turboguy]

Nice post.  Great photo's too.  She is very beautiful.  That was interesting.  You see a lot of posts talking about meeting gals and many posts of the problems that occur in a marriage.  I found it interesting to read about the early days of arrival.   I will be observing that myself in about 3 weeks if all goes well and it was most interesting.

[GQBlues]

"....I will be observing that myself in about 3 weeks..."

Boy are you in for spectrum of emotions!!!:P

TG, seriously though, I learned not to approach RWs first few days according to what 'I' think, but rather how she will react. Grand plans have a way of disintegrating to bits.

Careful one day at a time...

 

[Maxx]

Hello GQ!

 I am glad things are going well. It must be exciting and interesting for you seeing Natalily's reactions to LA. You know how it is because you experienced this excitment yourself. You were 17 right? 

I have responded to your two e-mails but I keep having my returned replys bounced back at me.

Anyway I am hard at work preparing for a nest. Your offer does interest me but first things must come first.

Please give Nat my best. Say hello to Ira and Nikita for me.

Maxx 

[KenC]

GQ,

Congrats!  Your gal is a doll!  I wish you the best, but I don't think you will need luck because you did such a great job in selecting and getting to know her.  If more guys took your method towards this endevor, we would have many less crash & burn stories.  But I also know that ain't ever gonna happen because every sap that takes a shortcut to happiness just knows that his case is going to be different.

KenC

(When you get around to taking your sweetie to Sea World, give me a hollar)

[GQBlues]

maxx-

You said:

"...I am glad things are going well. It must be exciting and interesting for you seeing Natalily's reactions to LA. You know how it is because you experienced this excitment yourself. You were 17 right?..."

One of the most noticeable aspects of perception so far is the following. When I was in Nataly's shoes, I knew I was coming from what one can easily say - a third world country - especially compared to the US.

In Nataly's case, it's not quite in the same extreme. As far as she's concerned, even now, Russia rivaled the US in every facet of life with the exception, of course, of the glitters of Hollywood. Call it a 'superiority complex'.

I completely agree with her when she said: " I prefer St Peterburg over Los Angeles. I think it is a better city." I need to understand that the tone of that statement is strictly based on the cities' history and it's picturesque state. Within those confines, she is absolutely right.

St Petersburg is one of Los Angeles' sister city. In terms of beauty, SP definitely have the upper hand.

After driving up PCH, we got to Malibu and had lunch....

"So Darling, Malibu is a province like we have in Russia. Yes?" 

"Hhhmmm, not exactly babe."

Don't ever tell Scott Jay what she said, maxx


 

 

[GQBlues]

KenC-

I read upthread that you and your wife spent the holiday weekend up my way (in Malibu). GGggrrr...I was having a barbeque party on the 4th, it would've been great to have you guys stop by.

But yes, when her sister Ira and nephew Nikita arrive, I plan on taking the lot to Seaworld, and it would be splendid to meet up with you and wife for dinner someplace. Tentatively the 23rd of this month. Hopefully that'll be a good time for you both.

[Maxx]

maxx-

After driving up PCH, we got to Malibu and had lunch....

"So Darling, Malibu is a province like we have in Russia. Yes?" 

"Hhhmmm, not exactly babe."

Don't ever tell Scott Jay what she said, maxx

 

Back when Scott Jay was a newbie he told a Russian woman he was writing to that he lived on a horse ranch in Malibu (this is true) overlooking the Pacific Ocean. He was doing his best to sound romantic and to impress. In her letter back she said:

"Have you ever thought to sell your horses and move in the city?"

I have the letters.

Maxx


 

[jb]

Matt,

Congrats on successfully getting your g/f over here at last.  It was not an easy task but I think you'll find it was worth the effort.

[KenC]

GQ,

All we needed was an invite!  Left Malibu about 12ish on the 4th and even had time for a stop at South Coast Plaza.  Now you gotta know I would have rather done about anything else but that.  Where did you lunch in Malibu?  We had a great dinner at the Charthouse and Georffry's.  We didn't care too much for Dukes.

KenC

[GQBlues]

jb-

Thank you. In looking back, aside from meeting the person you just felt right about, the process is far easier in comparison to events after she passes through POE. We are both enjoying our days under the LA sun right now but our road ahead is, I still believe, where the real challenges lie. Right now, all we've accomplished is to live the chance we held and strived for this past year. She's showing immense promise. Time will tell...one thing is for certain, I'm more than fully behind this relationship. My first trip seemed like a lifetime ago.

A lot of the things you used to say on the other site rung so true during my FSU phase. I am convinced that the rules governing MOB have gotten more difficult than what it was when I first started. Now more than ever - newbies beware.

 

KenC-

Actually hit Geoffrey's. Believe it or not, she didn't care for the food  I was talking to maxx about matters of 'trained pallette' with RWs. While we AMs are convinced certain things are exceptional, RWs (at least those just arriving to US) reserves their right of opinion. I am beginning to learn that at this point not all things I onced was convinced to be delicious, may not necessarily be so for RWs, at least until they've been here a while. Can't blame you about Duke's. It's just as bad as Gladstone's. There used to be a hip Mexican Restaurant out there just south of Pepperdine University, called ADOBE. Not sure if it's still open but they serve up some pretty darn good Chile Verde....

Last night, she had her first taste of sushi and sake. Surprisingly she totally dug it. I was ordering portions for her to basically try when she whispered to me to promise her that next time she gets her own platter. Her fav - Caterpillar Roll and Yellowtail collar tip.

Keep in mind Ken - you never need an invite. Next time just honk.

[KenC]

GQ,

Oops, you just made your first huge mistake!  Introduce a RW to sushi at your wallet's peril.  Lena can and usually does have sushi on a daily basis.  I used to not mind having sushi occasionally, but now I avoid it as much as possible.  Prepare yourself for the other man in your RW's life: her sushi chief!  In about another week or so, your gal will be coaching you through the sushi menu at her favorite sushi bar.

KenC

 

[jb]

Yeppers,,, Russian ladies do love the raw fish.  We have a Japanese sushi joint in the neighboorhood and my wife brings home a box of the stuff about once a week, plus there's a fish monger in town that carries fresh, (just flown in), salmon and she makes her own salty fish.  She says that's the next best thing to sushi.

Until I married a Russian I had always thought the correct name for raw fish was,,, "bait".