Seeking a bit of an advice

[KenC]

Turbo,

You can twist my words and creativly edit them, but the truth is I never said that a better life style was the end all reason or that it was the only reason or that I 100% agree with what jb & Andrew wrote.  You and your snipping buddy Photo are just too dim witted to deal with the facts without making sheet up.

KenC

[Turboguy]

Ken, I did not twist your words.   You said you did not say something and I remembered that you had, went back and copied it and pasted it intact and unedited into my response.   I did copy only the statement that you said you did not make and not the hole post.   My only point was that you had said exaclty what you said you did not say.  

Can we move off this.  I would rather discuss positive things and not nit pick little differences in sematics.    As far as I am concerned BC summarized it in a way we should all be able to agree with.   Sometimes when you talk about ideas and issues and don't try to trash the people behind them you get things resovled a lot faster. 

[jb]

KenC, BC, et al marrieds

We need to find a sort of Zen-like philosophical balance that brings both some happiness to our RWD dimwits and at the same time, some psychic relief to ourselves without endangering our own sanity or giving up those truths we know and hold dear.

Hereafter when they make some off-the-wall comment, I'm just going to shrug my shoulders and encourage him to go with the flow.  If some man is actually foolish enough to think that a young girl, with whom he has spent less than two weeks, who is perhaps 20+ years his junior, is really willing to uproot her life and leave her friends, hearth,  and home because she is sooooooooo in love with him and the improved money and lifestyle have no bearing on her decisions and motivations, who am I to say otherwise?

Some people are indeed wearing blinders, but I don't think it's the girls.

[corncrowe]

KenC, BC, et al marrieds

We need to find a sort of Zen-like philosophical balance that brings both some happiness to our RWD dimwits and at the same time, some psychic relief to ourselves without endangering our own sanity or giving up those truths we know and hold dear.

Hereafter when they make some off-the-wall comment, I'm just going to shrug my shoulders and encourage him to go with the flow. If some man is actually foolish enough to think that a young girl, with whom he has spent less than two weeks, who is perhaps 20+ years his junior, is really willing to uproot her life and leave her friends, hearth, and home because she is sooooooooo in love with him and the improved money and lifestyle have no bearing on her decisions and motivations, who am I to say otherwise?

Some people are indeed wearing blinders, but I don't think it's the girls.

jb,

Words of wisdom some will never understand.  I doubt very seriously that any twenty something is or will be willing to give up her life in the FSU for any man who is twenty years her senior, "unless" she is desperate, seeking a green card, or just stupid.

I have known or shared experience with too many guys who live this fantasy.  I personally perfer a woman closer to my age, with similar life experiences, and some maturity!

Cheers,

Jon

[Maxx]

I guess I am in with the "marrieds". My take on all of this is that the younger and prettier they are the more money one needs to keep a lid on things.  The selfless RW content with a very modest lifestyle is a rare thing. As mine said to me when she got here "You want Russian wife you must pay".

Maxx

[Maxx]

I just occured to me. Because I am no longer married to a RW I can be brutally honest about what a life is like with one of them. The "marrieds" can only hint at the difficulties.

I know one fellow in his middle - later forties who had his life in Michigan whose new Russian wife (quite young) insisted they move to California. He did. Started his own business. Became successful in this and is now happily married for a number of years. That first year or so was tough from what I understand. Good thing he was a go-getter or who knows what would have happened.

Maxx

[BC]

Maxx,

The world is full of 'rules' and there will always be exceptions.  Unfortunately too many think they are THE exception, which obviously will not add up in the end.

imho many who go such extreme lengths to find that 'perfect' RW have simply swallowed the 'hype' hook line and sinker and are primarily driven by resulting obsessive behavior.

Looking at other forum discussing virtues of any exotica such as cars, boats or stamps etc you will likely find  parallels to discussions, personalities, behavior and emotions shared on this board.

It would be nice if all could find a good mate in this manner but it is just not going to be that way.

The MOB business is a catalyst that forces reactions to take place in unnatural and uncertain ways. You're much better off simply trusting that someday, somewhere you will find your perfect match.  Nothing beats this method.

What's that old expression.. 'Vegas was not built by winners' (or something similar). MOB is exactly the same.

[Bruno]

I just occured to me. Because I am no longer married to a RW I can be brutally honest about what a life is like with one of them. The "marrieds" can only hint at the difficulties.

Maxx, i was too long time married with a RW... and i have know some difficulty... but now, i have a other regard on this... i don't reject all the mistake on my ex-wife... in some way, i am responsible of what have happen with her, i have make the wrong choice...

She was very and sexy... mother but never take care of her own child, it was the responsability of his parent, she was always at school and have never work... in some way, i have mary a woman who have know nothing of the life... so, it was a big shock for her to spring in the role of wife and mother in the same time... she was not mature enough...

Several time, it is us, man who make the wrong choice of woman... more attracted by a sexy body that by a adult mind and spirit... of course, a RW of 20 yo is more adult that his western equivalent... but she stay a young woman from 20 yo with the problem of these post pubert woman...

I am almost sure that these like BC, Ken, JB, Dan who are always happily married have not marry a young cutie from 20 year old... but more a adult woman between 25 and 35 year old... i think that a woman below 25 year, who have never know some experience of life and always protected by parents is a very bad choice for a foreign marriage... of course, some exception exist but they are seldom...

Us, these who are divorced are very bad placed to judge RW... but very good for analyse our own mistake and inform other about this... so, newbies will not know the same story that us...

 

[BC]

Us, these who are divorced are very bad placed to judge RW... but very good for analyse our own mistake and inform other about this... so, newbies will not know the same story that us...

Unfortunately obsessions and testosterone filter sounds and virtual ink very well. We tend to hear what we want to hear. Usually it's that 'I told you so' ringing in our heads that begin to make us think... maybe..

[Bruce]

Just read this whole thread.  I wonder how Matt is doing with his Siberian Suprise anyway....................lets hope he doesn't down a bottle and keeps his wits about him.

Good thread.  I really tip my hat off to guys like KenC, JB, Jet "presently happily married to RW" and others who painstakingly repeat the same point again and again and again to drive some sense into alot of the "presently unmaried" people on this board.   Its also nice to have Bruno and Turbo picking apart point after point so we all are completely spoon fed what most of us will or have already gotten ourself into in our personal lives of marrying a girl from the FSU. 

Photoguy - it really is a shame guys are taking a bit of a "risk" when they post photos of their girls / share their lives.  Most of us are really proud of our girls and would love to show pictures.  It is really nice that you / Bruno put pictures etc.  It helps others relate to you and your trip report etc. - something that I for one just can not do.  Remember that beauty is in the eye of the beholder and if the girl is beautiful to you that is all that counts. 

My take on this thread....................back to the same old advice, from me anyway:

     1.  You have to have the ability to make your girl feel and really ultimately know that you are a secure provider, since thats such a large part of how the majority of girls tick...........so a certain amount of $ / disposable income is essential to the process.  One caveat is to make sure you are not fooled by some of the girls blind desperation to "get out" of their miserable situations and fall prey to their ability to do any and everything to make their life better.   Its your life and you have to take care of you, so it all gets down to your ability to choose wisely.  Character traits are what should win out in the end. 

     2.   You need to take the time to get to know your potential wife prior to doing a K-1.  Different couples take different amount of time so I can not say what is best, but a minimum of three trips and alot of phone / email communication is essential prior to a K-1 in my humble opinion.  K-1 as far as I am concerned makes the most sense, though DCF and K-3's have worked well for some couples.  One key factor is the ability to really communicate with your prospective spouse.  Language is a huge key.  In my case the girl had to know alot of English, but other guys have worked things out well with girls who knew no English ie. they knew Russian well or they proceeded very slowly until they could really communicate properly so they both knew what they were getting into.  Remember my adaptation of the old Russian adage that a guy loves with his eyes and the girl with her ears - there is alot of truth to it at least initially.  What I am talking about goes well beyond that.  Time and pain staking conversations to really get to know how the other person thinks and how you plan to proceed as a couple are essential.  If a girl is too dumb or too immature at any age you need to realize this and learn to cut your losses sooner rather than later.

     3.  Great - you both are attracted to each other for whatever reason.  Do you really get along socially.  Do you really share common hopes, dreams and aspirations for the future?  Do you really make your girl feel truly special deep in her psychological core?  Only then, in my opinion, is one ready for marriage.

     4.  For newbies the key is to go over somewhere in the FSU that strikes your fancy sooner than later.  Once you get your feet wet you'll work out what "approach" is best for you.  Go, and go now.  Good luck, because it always is a mine field out there.

 

[Turboguy]

Nice post Bruce,  You made some good points there.  I think some of the others have good points too.  I really don't disagree with thier ideas as much as they might think.  I think with a few of the people they would get thier point across a little easier if they were more positive and construtive in the way they presented it.   If I am refering to any thing in particular it is someone who made the mistake of posting photos.

Finding someone your own age is probably a smart move.   If things fall apart for my gal and, I that will be something I keep in mind.   The nice thing about the FSU is that type of gal is easy to find.  You can go to any underpass or metro entrance and they are sitting on the steps with scarfs on their head, their head down and their hand out.  Other than that you have to remember the life span in the FSU is pretty short.   other than the babuskas, the gals my age have already died of old age.

[BC]

I really hate the comparison, but many older guys are shopping for gals like they do cars.. new, sleek, sporty and flashy.

[KenC]

I am almost sure that these like BC, Ken, JB, Dan who are always happily married have not marry a young cutie from 20 year old... but more a adult woman between 25 and 35 year old... i think that a woman below 25 year, who have never know some experience of life and always protected by parents is a very bad choice for a foreign marriage...
 

Bruno,

Just a little correction needed here.  My wife was 21 when we married.  She did move from her parents home into mine.  Her lack of experience in having her own houshold was a difficult transition on top of everything else.

On the other hand, she was afforded a rather good lifestyle by her parents and was not in "need" of improvement in that area.  I am sure that I met her "minimum financial requirements" but she was influenced less by material goals and more by "affairs of the heart."  The fact that she had a good lifestyle and a very good future ahead of her in Russia was a key factor in my taking the huge risk in regards to such a young woman.  So far so good. (6 years)

KenC

[Turboguy]

I really hate the comparison, but many older guys are shopping for gals like they do cars.. new, sleek, sporty and flashy.

Well I usually drive a pick up truck.  I look for reliability, comfort and load hauling capabilty when I shop.   It was in interesting comparison though.

[BC]

lol Turbo.. I'm a van man myself.. plenty of room to stretch out and keeps the skeeters out of the back seats..

[jb]

I really hate the comparison, but many older guys are shopping for gals like they do cars..

That's a very interesting observation.  It's a better comparison than you might think.

I wish I believed that the newbies were putting as much forethought into selection of a MOB as they do for a used car. A  car can at least be test driven at a local dealership, the MOB cannot.  There is a standard of "Truth in Advertising" in the car business that doesn't exist in the MOB agencies.   Since most of the "models" a MOB agency puts on display are used "second or third hand", the potential buyer has no inkling of how the MOB was handled by a previous owner, i.e., how many times she was driven hard and not garaged properly, is there hidden damage under the bonnet, etc., and there should be better disclosure as to how many miles are actually on the chassis.  

What is even more disturbing is that many newbies are making full blown mental commitments to purchase the used merchandise based on a few e-mails written not by the MOB herself, but by an employee of the seller. Enhanced photographs contrived to show only the best side of things are also part of the sales pitch.  The MOB agency hype would lead the buyer to believe the MOB is provided with improved, advanced, or sophisticated features not found in locally available brides, while most of the men already cruising with a RW know this is just not the case.  They can be every bit as tempermental and hard to start on a cold night as any of the locally grown versions.

Caveat Emptor: (Let the Buyer Beware)

[Turboguy]

There is probably a lot more truth in that statement than there is in a lot of the information guys get about the gals they are trying to get to know.

[Bruno]

Bruno,

Just a little correction needed here.  My wife was 21 when we married.  She did move from her parents home into mine.  Her lack of experience in having her own houshold was a difficult transition on top of everything else.

This can only show that i have right... i don't recommand young woman to newbies... If you was successful in the transition, it was because both of your have work very hard on this... How much man are ready to make these hard work !!! It is only your own merit...

I am sure that I met her "minimum financial requirements" but she was influenced less by material goals and more by "affairs of the heart." 

Yep, here you give reason to the affirmation of turboguy who say that money is not the main reason to marry a foreign man... and it is true for some woman... not all...

[Bruno]

That's a very interesting observation. It's a better comparison than you might think.

I wish I believed that the newbies were putting as much forethought into selection of a MOB as they do for a used car. A car can at least be test driven at a local dealership, the MOB cannot. There is a standard of "Truth in Advertising" in the car business that doesn't exist in the MOB agencies. Since most of the "models" a MOB agency puts on display are used "second or third hand", the potential buyer has no inkling of how the MOB was handled by a previous owner, i.e., how many times she was driven hard and not garaged properly, is there hidden damage under the bonnet, etc., and there should be better disclosure as to how many miles are actually on the chassis.

What is even more disturbing is that many newbies are making full blown mental commitments to purchase the used merchandise based on a few e-mails written not by the MOB herself, but by an employee of the seller. Enhanced photographs contrived to show only the best side of things are also part of the sales pitch. The MOB agency hype would lead the buyer to believe the MOB is provided with improved, advanced, or sophisticated features not found in locally available brides, while most of the men already cruising with a RW know this is just not the case. They can be every bit as tempermental and hard to start on a cold night as any of the locally grown versions.

Caveat Emptor: (Let the Buyer Beware)

Wonderful post... now, over MOB agency, you have several type... some earn money with e-mail... so, they can make false letter... other sell adress... but they don't hurry to remove women who are not more free, of maybe already dead... other are free but generaly, they are the home of scammer... but you have some who are honest in the three categorie... the problem is not really the MOB but the honesty of agency...

And really, who buy a second hand auto without control it... and without a test drive... of course, these who know nothing to mechanic can buy some craps... and it is why RWD exist, for the basic lesson of mechanic... for help people to find the difference between a good second hand car of a deadly car... of course, some thief are specialist to transform a old car in a dream car... it is the risk of the game...

 

[KenC]

[user=21]KenC[/user] wrote: 

I am sure that I met her "minimum financial requirements" but she was influenced less by material goals and more by "affairs of the heart." 

Yep, here you give reason to the affirmation of turboguy who say that money is not the main reason to marry a foreign man... and it is true for some woman... not all...

Bruno,

This is no dfferent than what I have said all along.  Men and women have a "minimum criteria" set in their brains.  That doesn't make it the only criteria as some have suggested I said.  These "minumum standards" also apply to looks, intelligence, moralistic behavior, and even hygene.  Once a potential partner fits this very broad profile, then the finer points come into play.  If the "minimums" are not met, then the "potential partner" is rejected with no further consideration.  Finally, if all goes well, love even enters into the equation.

KenC

[Turboguy]

Something that someone who was paid well to know about these things said a long time ago was that you fall in love when you meet someone who fits the general criteria of the type of woman you think you would fall in love with.

As far as the other statements I don't totally disagree and I don't totally agree.  When I was looking my criteria was age, somewhere between 18 and 50.  Height somewhere between 4 feet and 7 feet, Weight, not too much,  intelligence, some but not in too demanding a career,  Moralistic behavoir, yea, I would be less bothered by a gal who didn't kiss me on the first visit than I would by one who hopped in the sack one hour after meeting me.   Hygene,  Heck, when I grew up people took Saturday night baths.  I have a garden hose if she gets too bad. 

I have always liked brunettes better than blondes (don't tell my gal)  I never thought a gal who looked like she was going to pack on some pounds down the road was a choice I would make which my gal is thin but I have a feeling 10 years from now that won't be the case.  Personally I think you go into this with preconsieved ideas about what is important to you and you fall in love with whoever you fall in love with.

You know the saying, "Love is blind"  If it wasn't why would these Russian gals want to fool with us anyway.   Ohhh, the money,  that is right.  I forgot for a minute.

[Bruno]

Bruno,

This is no dfferent than what I have said all along.  Men and women have a "minimum criteria" set in their brains.  That doesn't make it the only criteria as some have suggested I said.  These "minumum standards" also apply to looks, intelligence, moralistic behavior, and even hygene.  Once a potential partner fits this very broad profile, then the finer points come into play.  If the "minimums" are not met, then the "potential partner" is rejected with no further consideration.  Finally, if all goes well, love even enters into the equation.

KenC

About hygiene, i think that it is a serious thing for russian women... i have listen from some RW who visit European that they have complain about the house hygiene from the man... when it was not the personal hygiene... and it was enough for they begin a other search...

You make a good hit, it was something that we have never speak before in these forum...

 

[Maxx]

[user=21]KenC[/user] wrote:  

If the "minimums" are not met, then the "potential partner" is rejected with no further consideration.  Finally, if all goes well, love even enters into the equation.

KenC
[/quote]

Of course all this goes out the window if a greencard or a better life is first and strongly foremost.

Love for later? Love as a possibility? Many RW justify their marrying a man they don't love with that possibility. Sometimes (many times) love never comes. Then the result is they move on or they stay in a lifeless marriage and probably sleeping in separate rooms.

I would recomend at the very least in marrying a RW who is crazy about you (wanting you). At least there is a good chance that love might develop later. It is also a justification of a less than perfect union but at least there is a chance that love will come in time. Of course what is love?

Maxx

 

[Bruno]

Love for later? Love as a possibility? Many RW justify their marrying a man they don't love with that possibility. Sometimes (many times) love never comes. Then the result is they move on or they stay in a lifeless marriage and probably sleeping in separate rooms.

Maxx, do you know my first russian wife ? It is the perfect definition for her... :?:?:?

[Maxx]

Love for later? Love as a possibility? Many RW justify their marrying a man they don't love with that possibility. Sometimes (many times) love never comes. Then the result is they move on or they stay in a lifeless marriage and probably sleeping in separate rooms.

Maxx, do you know my first russian wife ? It is the perfect definition for her... :?:?:?
[/quote]
My guess not but I may have married her twin sister. Did your's insist on sleeping with her child?

Maxx