Seeking a bit of an advice

[Turboguy]

That is fine BC but it is not factually correct.   The subject had been dormant and seemed to have faded away into the forum graveyard when Andrewfin made a new nasty comment about Doug's gal.   That is what started this up again.

I think we otta have a truce.   We shoot anyone who ever mentions Doug's gal in a less than positive light and shoot Doug if he mentions anyones past nasty comments about her and get away from all this negativity.  

[BC]

Turbo,

Your post was the last one on Jun 22, and the thread was dormant until Doug's post on Jun 30.

Not factual?

(edit) btw over a week is an eternity in forum time..

[KenC]

Turbo,

This subject would have been dead long ago if Doug didn't make it his crusade.  Even Andrew's comment was overlooked in his post until Doug brought it to everyone's attention.  And just who annoited him King to judge who is and is not civilized?  I don't think he should post here any more but rather just go on Oprah.  Maybe then he will get all the "warm fuzzy" advice he wants so desperately and needs.

My attitude (and many others) toward Doug has changed.  I know some of the guys that have been tough on him and they usually would give forth a great effort to help anyone.  And Doug would be no different, except for his attitude.  And his bad attitude showed long before anyone ever said an unkind word regarding his gf's looks. 

When Doug began his T/R he expressed his confusion over his gf's behavior.  He asked for advice on it.  He got the advice.  He didn't like the advice so he changed his story and attacked the advisors.  The advisors attacked back.  End of story.  Except Doug won't let it end.

I have used forums like this one for many years now.  I used them to obtain all kinds of information on visas, travel and INS questions.  These forums are invaluable for such subjects.  But they are not intended to be used for the developement of of relationship skills.  These forums are also good for hearing the experiences of others in similar situations.  From others experiences one can glean an insight on what worked or didn't work for others.  They can then choose to apply their new found knowledge to their own situation, or not.

I never publicly slammed Doug's gf's looks and I didn't think that was appropriate, but I also understand why other posters thought that it was OK to do so.  Because Doug invited the comments on his personal relationship with his gf.  When you ask a public forum, "What do you guys think of this?", you have to be prepared for the answers.  Doug wasn't prepared for the reaction he got.  The more the posters slammed his gf's actions, the more Doug defended them.  I thought it was amusing that Doug's position changed drastically from the beginning of his T/R to the end.  In the beginning he was confused by her "ambivilant" (his word) behavior.  At the end of his T/R he was confident that she was hot for him.  Huh?  What we have here is a guy that is reacting adversly to the criticisms he himself solicited.

I will gladly take responsibility for my posts, but it is about time Doug does also.

KenC

[Bruno]

Bruno,

Much of what has happened and still happening is in response to Doug's reactions, not the content of his TR.

I don't think you would have reacted in the same manner.

The board 'moved on' over 10 days ago until Doug brought the subject back up agian.

Your TR on the other hand doesn't even appear anymore on the 'recent posts' and both these threads stopped around the same time.

Ask and you shall receive..

Repetition only serves to reinforce. 

I fully agree with you, it is why i finish my previous post by "forgive"... Doug need to forget and forgive what have happen...

An it is not really, Doug who have bring back the problem 12 days ago ... take a look at my own trip report... fight between Doug and Corncrowe :

Corncrowe : There's many attractive women in the FSU.  When you find one then I think you'll understand.

Doug : Is that meant as an insult?

Corncrowe : I was trying to be polite.  But if you want the truth that woman you're pictured with is ugly.  Even my daughter said "ugggh". Sorry, honesty hurts sometimes.  Besides, I heard she never even kissed you?


After Anomo have use my TR for fight Elen... it is why i have ask Dan for send my TR to the Trash section, so the bad comment on other member have stop... And more, a attack against my TR was not interesting for other people... since it was a total misluck, it was nothing more to destroy... [ added after edit ] Everybody have say : What a wonderfull trip... only one have see that it was a total misluck, same with the Luda story... it was JB... and he was right, i was back alone... Luda was the attraction for forget Galina... my therapie in some way... Very strange that only my personal "enemy" was the one with enough brain for make the right conclusion... of course, i have like the good comments, but these was not needed for my learn process... [ end of edit ]

And like KenC have show in his post, all these attack have lead Doug to have the reverse situation... he is now fully involved in his relation... and in some way, if this lead to a misluck, i can say that some here are responsible of this... critic are always welcome when they are constructive but destructive critic bring nothing good... words are a powerfull weapon and take care when you manipulate it... Yes, now internet have a very bad effect but i have know it from the begin... in these time, people have some respect for each other... jerk, scammer, virus,... was almost non existant... but several have enjoy of the anonimity for make bad thing...

In normal life, insult or rise the voice don't resolve problem... why it is not the same here... it is not because you are hidden after your keyboard that you can say everything and make personal attack... i don't think that Dan like all these fight... So, by respect to Dan, stop it... if you wish make fight, use your own personal web space... i use the mine for my marriage agency, use the your for publish your venon and insult... but keep these place clean... of maybe some people here search the dead of RWD...

[jb]

T-Guy,

Ken's right about this.  I think it's nice that you continue to defend Doug in this, but he's really brought this all upon himself.

His T/R has been removed so we can't review it again, but I did once go back to re-read and try to sort some factual data from the arguement.  IIRC Doug recieved about 15 posts giving him the ususal glad handing BS before someone, (me), pointed out that his not being kissed was not a good sign.  After that the fight was on.

I have no personal interest in the welfare of Doug's love life one way or the other, but I still won't lie to him and tell him everything is just hunky.  He asked for our opinions and we responded with our reactions to his description of the events which transpired during his 5 day trip.  I thought he was barking up the wrong tree with this woman, and still do.

Now Doug has a hate on for everyone who told him he had screwed up, and that's ok too.  He manages to insert what he thinks is a barb into any thread he can, in other words, he won't leave it alone.  Believe me, I will never meet meet Doug in a social setting, in fact I would take pains to avoid such a meeting.  Not because I fear for any consequence of my words, but Doug has revealed that he is not the sort of man I would seek out for friendship.  He and I just do not share anything in common.

[Son of Clyde]

I personally think it does not matter what others say once you have decided upon your woman.

I was very offended when Richard said we looked like a geeky couple and when Bucky said she was heavy. I did not hate them for the comments. When Donna Pedro said I looked like a college professor F---ing his student I was offended until she explained herself.

The dozens of positive comments I have received far overshadowed the negative ones.

Doug, you are not the only one who received negative comments.

Sometimes you have to let it rest.

When Irina is here in three weeks I think I am going to retire from RWD & RWG and concentrate on building our life together.

[Admin]

[user=130]Son of Clyde[/user] wrote:

When Irina is here in three weeks I think I am going to retire from RWD & RWG and concentrate on building our life together.

We'll be sorry to see you go - but priority needs to be on making the new marriage work.

As you have time, drop back by and maybe let some of the guys (and gals) here benefit by what you've learned.

Take care,

- Dan

[KenC]

Clyde,

Best of luck to you.  You may be back here sooner and more often than you think though.  The hard part is just ahead of you.  It is good but difficult at the same time.  You may find you have more questions than answers.

KenC

[catzenmouse]

[user=130]Son of Clyde[/user] wrote:

When Irina is here in three weeks I think I am going to retire from RWD & RWG and concentrate on building our life together.

 Clyde,

 Best of luck in this wonderful new adventure coming up for you! Have you checked out the CapitalCouples group? I'll send you the link if you want. We are getting ready to celebrate our 6 month wedding anniversary and I've found lots of helpful information here and elsewhere with all the adjustments Elena and I have gone through.

Ken

[Bruno]

[user=130]Son of Clyde[/user] wrote:

When Irina is here in three weeks I think I am going to retire from RWD & RWG and concentrate on building our life together.

Yep, a good move... since the first year, you will be very busy for help your new wife... maybe we see you back in one of two year... for annouce the first child :D:D

 

[Photo Guy]

Look, Andrewfin made a nasty comment. It came completely out of the blue, out of nowhere, unprovoked. I was not going back to that topic. He was.  If KenC and Tim 360 tell me I should tolerate and expect comments like that because this is an open forum, then I totally disagree. Maybe KenC does have some good advice to give, but when he uses a gigantic font and tells me to get a clue, it was not helpful in any way. It really was not. It was arrogant. It was not the voice of a 'nice guy'. Where were YOU when Andrewfin made that comment?  Lurking is being encouraged in this forum.   Doug

[Photo Guy]

T-Guy,

Ken's right about this.  I think it's nice that you continue to defend Doug in this, but he's really brought this all upon himself.
I have no personal interest in the welfare of Doug's love life one way or the other, but I still won't lie to him and tell him everything is just hunky.  He asked for our opinions and we responded with our reactions to his description of the events which transpired during his 5 day trip.  I thought he was barking up the wrong tree with this woman, and still do.

Now Doug has a hate on for everyone who told him he had screwed up, and that's ok too.

Totally untrue. I am obligated to react to comments that make fun of a woman's appearance and occupation. It's the right thing to do. Other advice and opinions are welcomed. Doug

[BC]

Coming up..... Round Three!!  leeeeaaats Rummmmblllleeee....

[Photo Guy]

Son of Clyde,
I will take your advice.

I do not understand why anyone would quietly accept those criticisms that are non-constructive and are simple put-downs. If I did not defend her, then who here would? If you were me, wouldn't you defend your woman? I appreciate those members who supported me and understand where I was coming from, in terms of my point of view.

Best of luck, Son of Clyde!   Doug

[Turboguy]

[user=62]tim 360[/user] wrote:

Doug,

If you post "whatever" here or anywhere else on the internet and expect polite affirmation....ya got to be nuts.  I got NO idea of why you post all the personal stuff you do???  

You post stuff which invites comment and agrument and not everyone is going to agree with your brainwave patterns. 

 Frankly Tim, I think the guys here were a little hard on Doug.  All he did was post a well written trip report and say something to the effect that although she showed him a lot of affection she had not kissed him He mentioned that it bothered him a bit and asked for comments about it. 

After it got started she was called worst than trailer trash and a worthless shop girl.  Actaully she was called a lot worse.   I don't see where his post invited comment and arguement as you claim.   I have to agree with Doug, a lot of the comments were cruel and had no purpose except to hurt feelings. 

I had really hoped we were moving beyond this.   I will agree there was a big lag in the post and Dougs answer.  I am assuming Doug missed it for a while.  It would have been better for everyone if he would have missed it totally.   It would have been best yet if Andrewfin would have left sleeping dogs lie and not made that hurtful comment in the first place.   

I still think we should have some kind of a truce.   Whatever any of you feel about Dougs gal you have had plenty of time to say it.   What can be accomplished by saying more.  Doug has had his chance to tell some of you what he thinks of what you have done.   Let's move on and find some new things to argue about.

[MandM]

Why don't those members who think they can make nasty comments about somebody else's looks post their pictures here? And then girls could vote whether we would want to spend ANY time with them. Something tells me that not all of you look like Brad Pitt.

Forget this BS that this is an open forum blah, blah, blah, go and get some manners, guys.

Doug, I think you should just ignore any future comments. IMO, knowing that they can get to you encourages them even more. Do you give a s*** what they think? I wouldn't.

[Turboguy]

[catzenmouse]

Why don't those members who think they can make nasty comments about somebody else's looks post their pictures here? And then girls could vote whether we would want to spend ANY time with them. Something tells me that not all of you look like Brad Pitt.

Forget this BS that this is an open forum blah, blah, blah, go and get some manners, guys.

Good comment MandM. It is kind of interesting that those who are doing the nastygrams do not post their pics or ladies pics.

TurboGuy, right on the money. Good advice/bad advice does not have to be given with a S*&t sandwich wrapped around it.

Ken

[Bruno]

 Frankly Tim, I think the guys here were a little hard on Doug.  All he did was post a well written trip report and say something to the effect that although she showed him a lot of affection she had not kissed him He mentioned that it bothered him a bit and asked for comments about it. 

After it got started she was called worst than trailer trash and a worthless shop girl.  Actaully she was called a lot worse.   I don't see where his post invited comment and arguement as you claim.   I have to agree with Doug, a lot of the comments were cruel and had no purpose except to hurt feelings. 

I had really hoped we were moving beyond this.   I will agree there was a big lag in the post and Dougs answer.  I am assuming Doug missed it for a while.  It would have been better for everyone if he would have missed it totally.   It would have been best yet if Andrewfin would have left sleeping dogs lie and not made that hurtful comment in the first place.   

TurboGuy... over the story of Doug, have you follow all since the begin ? ... The story about the kiss problem in the TR is only the second part of the film... All have begin more early...

Do you remember, very long time ago, when Doug have ask if a beautician can go to a beauty convention during two week in Kiev... A lot of people have call Larissa a hooker... who have make some search for see if so convention exist... I have make it... but this have not stop the insult...

And the same guys who have call her a hooker was shocked that she have not kiss Doug and attack him again... i cannot imagine how strong have can be the attack if she have sleep with him the first week...

Several guys have choice Doug like victim... in anycase, what he can say and what can happen will change nothing... if he marry her, she will be a visa whore... if she stay married after the two year, he will be a old man who profit of a young body... yes, the futur attack will be so, the same people go always find some problem in his relation...

Now, Doug know that so convention exist, he have visit one during his stay with Larissa... several of the people here was wrong... but the same continue to attack him... in reality, they don't attack Larissa but they attack Doug via Larissa...

Some people try to build something and the pleasure of other is destroy it... really, so guys have nothing to make here, they need to visit a psy...

Doug, don't reply anymore to attack... it is what they search... they enjoy the fight with you... ignore them... a French proverb say : On n'est jamais sali, que par plus sale que soi-même!

[Photo Guy]

Thanks Turboguy.

MandM,
LOL. Good one. I'm cheered up. I gotta go now. Work to do.
Enough fun for this morning.  Doug, with attitude adjustment

[KenC]

Why don't those members who think they can make nasty comments about somebody else's looks post their pictures here? And then girls could vote whether we would want to spend ANY time with them. Something tells me that not all of you look like Brad Pitt.

If I recall correctly, Anno was the first to slam Dog's gf's looks and he has posted his photo as well as his gf's.

KenC

[andrewfi]

Sorry, been away for a few days.

I see nothing wrong with what I wrote. Given what we know about Doug's 'girlfriend', I would react as I noted. That does not mean she is evil, or a hag, but from her pics we can safely infer she is not a fashion model. From what we have been told by Doug about her her bahviour, I would not have been waiting around for her to decide she liked me. Doug has been a poster boy for a particular kind of behaviour set and hence my original post, which named nobody, and reply to Bruno when he mentioned Doug by name.

Whilst I am not going to post a photogallery here, there are plenty of pictures of me and friends and girlfriends around. I have no fear of visbility, but I also have no need to brag how good my 'girlfriend' looks. I am also a tad more confident in my relationships than some evidently are and thus I seek no affirmation and only very rarely advice in this regard.

As others have noted, it is not reasonable to expect that when we palce a subject, or person in a public spotlight that we will hear only things we want to hear. Usually the things we do not want to hear are the most apposite and, in the longer term, useful!

In respect of the young lady to whom Doug has taken a shine, I did not join in the general hullaballo about her, the trip or Doug himself. So, I am not over chuffed when I end up taking the rap for Doug's difficulties and challenges... If Doug does not want to be an example then perhpaps he might choose to seek to be less of an exemplar?

[jb]

T-Guy,

There is a difference between thinking he is barking up the wrong tree and calling her worse than tralier trash and a low life because she works as a shop girl but of course you also said Doug was low class too because he is a tour bus driver.  

Because it's ALL about Doug, you have overlooked some of the rather assine personal attacks he's made on those who attempted to give him a heads up.  He's not exactly lily white in this either.  Regards his chosen career, I would still say he's playing out of his league.  I do not believe this is an endeavor that should be attempted on a shoe string budget.  On the RWG we had this same discussion some time ago, and IIRC we determined that a salary of about $65-80K, with ample vacation time, and or the ability to take additional time without pay was the bottom line requirements to get into this properly.  A man needs to be able to make 3-4 trips per year during the courtship to build a relationship. It's all about the amount of disposible income he can devote to pursuit of the RW.   So far, Doug hasn't built a relationship, in fact he hasn't even been kissed yet.

You can continue to justify to your heart's content, but the facts of the matter remain undisputed, Doug has very little opportunity to be more than a high risk gambler in this high stakes game.

[Bruno]

Maybe a new disclaimer for the forum... find the model on "ethics forum"... just replace *** by RWD... i like it...

A TIME FOR HONESTY

YOU WANTED A FORUM THAT HELD HONESTY AND TRUTH. YOU WANTED A FORUM THAT NO ONE WAS A FAKE AND COULD SPEAK THEIR MIND. YOU HAVE THESE FORUM WITH *** AND NO ONE COULD STAND WHAT WE SAID. WE WERE HONEST AND BOLD AND NOT TOO MANY COULD TAKE THAT PATH. IF YOU CANNOT TAKE THAT PATH, YOU MADE A GREAT MISTAKE COMING HERE. FLY WITH COURAGE AND SAY YOUR PEACE IF YOU DARE. WE WILL LISTEN BUT WE WILL CHALLENGE YOU AS WELL.

I think that it show very good the spirit of a forum... everyone say his mind here, sometime with a strong way... if you choose to post, be ready to be challenged... the "D" from "RWD" is for "discussion"... a forum without discussion is a dead forum... we need only to learn how to moderate our own reply and try to be gentleman...

People who cannot moderate himself can always visit "What Pisses You Off?"... a forum at http://bbs.whatpissesyouoff.com/ : "What Pisses You Off? is the premier place to debate current topics such as religion or politics in an intelligent manner. You can freely speak your mind about religion or politics without anyone censoring what you say or how you say it." ... If we can remove politics and religion from RWD, all will be more easy... yes, i know, i am guilty too, nobody is perfect... i am working on it...

[Turboguy]

Bruno,

Thanks for your good comments.  I think you are right.  I think the best course for Doug is to just ignore things when someone makes a rotten comment.  It is sorta like when you first get an ex-wife.   Sometimes they do their darndest to agraivate you and if you let them, "they win"   I did not remember the early part of Doug's posts about the convention.   I have been here since this board was pretty young but may have just lightly skimmed through that part.  Thanks for filling me in.

Andrewfin,  I am glad you stayed out of the early maylay.  I will pat you on the back for that.  It still was not a nice thing to say.   It did stir up things again and I think most of us would really like to see this go away.

Ken, Yes, I believe Anono was the first to start all that.   Yes, he did post his photo and "j's photo.   That was only after he had a lot of pressure put on him.   Because he was the first to trash Doug's gal, I just to have a little fun so we were pulling his leg a bit that he should forget about j because he had a poor approach to it and had biased any chance to know if she was really interested in him or was just out for the money.   Anono is a good guy and I just was trying to turn the tables a bit and let him see how Doug must feel.   That is neither her nor there.   I think Anono and j are a pretty good match and I hope they end up together.   I don't really think the fact that he posted his and her photos means we are wrong about the points we are trying to make.   Yes, you are right. 

JB,  You said

 " Because it's ALL about Doug, you have overlooked some of the rather assine personal attacks he's made on those who attempted to give him a heads up. He's not exactly lily white in this either. Regards his chosen career, I would still say he's playing out of his league. "

Unless I missed something his personal attacks came well after his lady was called a lot of really rotten things that were said in really bad taste and you were one of the chief instigators.  That might be a heads up to you but it seems more like a middle finger up to some of us.

As far as his career which you look down upon.   I am sure he would rather have been a brain surgeon or a movie star but the world needs tour bus drivers too which to use your words is his "chosen career".   What you determined in discussions at RWG and a couple of bucks will get you a cup of coffee at starbucks.    A round trip ticket to Kiev in the off season is around $ 700 and an apartment is $ 60 a night.   It is not that expensive to chase the gals from over there.   I have friends who are sucessfully doing it without a big income. 

A lot of what someone can do is not how much they make but how well they handle money.   I used to laugh at a series they used to do in "Money" magazine.   They would analize the finances of a couple in financial difficulty.   The scenero would be something like He is making $ 175,00 and she is making $ 125,00 and they can't pay thier bills. 

I do understand what you are trying to say but I also feel that what you determine does not mean much in the real world.   No one is really going to listen to you.  You might be totally right and still no one is going to care.