A big mistake

[jb]

gabulb,

What you don't seem to understand is that Panama City, FL is a sh1t hole.  There aren't many who want to live there full time.

[Serebro]

One thing about the FSUW you come into contact there. About 99% are
working in the hotel/condo  industry on seasonal work visas as maids. Most of them
are not the cream of the FSUW crop and come from extremely poor circumstances, but many are trying to save money for college back home. Most
of them have a very poor opinion of Americans

I am sorry to dissapoint you,Wm, but America in summer time if full of 18-26 yo Russian students who haven't graduated from their universities.Some of them come to earn some money and to see the counnry and to know future oportunities for their possible MA/MS or PhD or the opportunities for finding a professional job and internship programmes, others come only to earn money in summer time as students salaries are normally low in Russia.

Some students especially if they live in small towns with no big future in Russia prefer to stay but their number is still lower than the number of RW who wish to stay when they married AM and it doesn't work out. Most of these students are going to become people of very nice and well-paid professions, I even remember meeting one future space engines engineer , but most of them go back to Russian every autumn when the study begins. From what I have heard so far the author of the thread has met one of those students and it's the beginning of October and the student girl had probably gone home.
the "quality" of these people is sometimes MUCH higher than of the women you can see on any website. At least they don't wish to stay in the USA that desperately(of course there are exceptions)and they don't post their bikini photos on websites to attract men.
These students don't belong to this category

Most of them
are not the cream of the FSUW crop and come from extremely poor circumstances

and most of them dress the same way as americans do as they are smart enough not to attract men with "prostitute  clothes style" and high heels.
Russian people from extremely poor circumstances don't have an opportunity to pay $1500-$6000 for a summer/half a year programm.
I am 26 and I was one of those students many years ago, most people who saw me there didn't believe I was a Russian as I didn't use a bright make up and didn't go anywhere being overdressed and I didn't know anything about websites like EM or AWeb...And I wasn't interested in meeting men "on purpose". Sometimes people made comments about me getting married soon or looked at my hands I was surprised and considered that to be a type of some strange joke as I really didn't understand that they thought I was one of the girls coming to USA just in order to find a husband.I realised that a couple of years later when I started reading more russian online forums about life abroad;)
So most of these girls is the example of the Russian "best middle class" unspoilt by humerous dates with AM of any age and categories.
I would advise the author of the thread to try to meet more girls in the place where he lives as it's probably one of the best choices.I am serious.
When I was in the USA I didn't judge AM by their look as it was very different from what I could see in Russia, it didn't bother me at all, I am honest, I had read many students' threads before and I was a student myself and jeans and t-shirts were the things that I had expected to see.Later when I had a relationship with an AM here in Russia I was rather surprised to see him wearing classical style clothes, asked myself what had made him look that way but in fact I didn't pay much attention to his clothing style.
So many girls will not."Low class" girls may judge americans by the way they look like. If you are going to attract them just go on, if you want to attract good ladies just be yourself and they will appreciate it.I am honest and good luck.
 

[KenC]

When reading these posts, I always get a chuckle. Russian women are often described as these mysterious creatures and it requires so much skill and experience to handle them carefully. For many here, it is such an ego boost: they managed to navigate the dark and mysterious FSU and came back with the prize of the indomitable Russian Woman.

If you are talking about a high quality woman, like my wife, your damn tootin!!!
 

In my experience, it ain't quite that hard. The goal that you have to keep in mind is that you have to find one woman who will love you.

It is all relative, I guess.  If you set the bar low enough, everyone can qualify.

You don't have to please all women, you don't even have to please most women, you just have to find the one who will love Panama City or  life in the country or life in a shack in the Appalachian Mountains. How to do it is pretty much the same both in Russia and North America: meet a lot of people, talk with them and get to know them, think a lot and avoid your hormones getting the best of you, and eventually you will find someone. If you are truly lucky she will truly be the one.

I have always said that there is no great trick in finding a woman in the fsu to accept an offer of a K-1.  As a matter of fact the "entry level" is rather low IMO considering the scammers and green card whores just about any man with a blue passport will do.  But to romance an intelligent, beautiful woman with options, you betcha I think is a hell of an accomplishment.  My wife just doesn't fall into the "any man will do" catagory.
KenC

[BillyB]

Chris, its seems like you're leaning to stay. Personally I like to do things military style. First I would befirend you. I would recognize your talents and compliment all that you do well. I would buy you dinner and show you around town or base. I will offer you exotic vacations and trips around the world on my dime. After your ego has been stroked and you trust me unconditionally, I have you sign some papers. Then you enter boot camp where I turn the dogs loose. Your feelings will be hurt something fierce and you will be broken down, possibly crying. You will be in a World of hurt. Then you will enter into a rebuilding process where you will turn into a lean mean fighting sexual machine. Does that sound good to you or what? Boot camp RWD style. Who volunteers to be the drill seargent? Speaking of the military, I just watched "We were Soldiers" last night. Excellent performance by Mel Gibson and great examples of REAL MEN in action. It's also based on a true story.

[Misha]

If you are talking about a high quality woman, like my wife, your damn tootin!!!
 
My wife just doesn't fall into the "any man will do" catagory.
KenC

Well, she fell in love with YOU. Would every woman in the FSU fall for you? Probably not. Is that not a bad thing? No.  Would any woman fall for me? God no! But, I found a woman who loves me and I love her. Yes, you have to be wary of scammers, but IMO most people fall for scammers because the buy the hype.

[KenC]

Well, she fell in love with YOU. Would every woman in the FSU fall for you? Probably not. Is that not a bad thing? No.  Would any woman fall for me? God no! But, I found a woman who loves me and I love her. Yes, you have to be wary of scammers, but IMO most people fall for scammers because the buy the hype.

gabaub,
You made a point of making light of the effort necessary to marry a woman from the fsu.  I disagree with that notion.  I think it takes a great deal of effort on the part of the man even under the best circumstances when you consider the level of difficulty to find her, communicate with her, travel to meet her, whatever it takes to woo her and of course whatever it takes to bring her home.  And that list doesn't even begin to consider the burden faced once she arrives in your home country.

I am happy for you that you found this process so easy, but that isn't typical.  When I witness men like Turbo searching the fsu for over ten years, or Bruce, who made dozens of trips to find the right woman or BillyB who literally wrote to thousands of women, how can you mock that they feel a great sense of accomplishment when they do find "Mrs. Right?"
KenC

[Misha]

gabaub,
You made a point of making light of the effort necessary to marry a woman from the fsu.  I disagree with that notion.  I think it takes a great deal of effort on the part of the man even under the best circumstances when you consider the level of difficulty to find her, communicate with her, travel to meet her, whatever it takes to woo her and of course whatever it takes to bring her home.  And that list doesn't even begin to consider the burden faced once she arrives in your home country.

I am happy for you that you found this process so easy, but that isn't typical.  When I witness men like Turbo searching the fsu for over ten years, or Bruce, who made dozens of trips to find the right woman or BillyB who literally wrote to thousands of women, how can you mock that they feel a great sense of accomplishment when they do find "Mrs. Right?"
KenC

Listen Ken, I understand the burden faced when she arrives. Been there done that. And I agree that it does take a great deal of effort to find the right person and that is true when looking for someone in your own country or when looking for someone across the globe. But, from reading some of the posts, you would think that venture is comparable to Livingstone's travels in Africa. I can understand the sense of accomplishment, but at times that great sense of accomplishment borders on bragging. Remember, pride was considered one of the seven deadly sins for a reason 

[KenC]

I agree that it does take a great deal of effort to find the right person and that is true when looking for someone in your own country or when looking for someone across the globe.

gabaub,
I respectfully disagree that there is any similarity in effort in dating AW to dating a RW.  That just doesn't make any sense to me at all.  The shear logistics alone make your comment rather silly to me.
KenC

[Misha]

gabaub,
I respectfully disagree that there is any similarity in effort in dating AW to dating a RW.  That just doesn't make any sense to me at all.  The shear logistics alone make your comment rather silly to me.
KenC

The comment is quite simple: trying to find the right AW or Canadian Woman or Martian if you want, takes time and it takes effort. It will require meeting lots of people, having plenty of boring dates and probably getting your heart broken once or twice. It also requires time and effort.

[WmGO]

[ So,,,not only can our intrepid hero not spell, he can't count either.   Either that, or the official city web site is wayyy off on the census numbers.   [/quote]

Well true, but apparently *I* can't read - or I have premature oldtimers (sometimes I think I do ...........
I thought Chris said he was from PCB which is an incorporated entity the west
side of the Bay (St. Andrews Bay).........in all fairness PC (east side of Bay) and PCB(west side) are considered one geographical entity so considering the two together the population is more like upper 40ks........ maybe even an even 50k.

Still, I think that there are a lot of FSUW who would enjoy living there........just not
the highly educated professionally driven type or the culturally sophisticated
type .........

[WmGO]

[I am sorry to dissapoint you,Wm, but America in summer time if full of 18-26 yo Russian students who haven't graduated from their universities.Some of them come to earn some money and to see the counnry and to know future oportunities for their possible MA/MS or PhD or the opportunities for finding a professional job and internship programmes, others come only to earn money in summer time as students salaries are normally low in Russia.

Some students especially if they live in small towns with no big future in Russia prefer to stay but their number is still lower than the number of RW who wish to stay when they married AM and it doesn't work out. Most of these students are going to become people of very nice and well-paid professions, I even remember meeting one future space engines engineer , but most of them go back to Russian every autumn when the study begins. From what I have heard so far the author of the thread has met one of those students and it's the beginning of October and the student girl had probably gone home.
the "quality" of these people is sometimes MUCH higher than of the women you can see on any website. At least they don't wish to stay in the USA that desperately(of course there are exceptions)and they don't post their bikini photos on websites to attract men.
These students don't belong to this category and most of them dress the same way as americans do as they are smart enough not to attract men with "prostitute  clothes style" and high heels.
Russian people from extremely poor circumstances don't have an opportunity to pay $1500-$6000 for a summer/half a year programm.
I am 26 and I was one of those students many years ago, most people who saw me there didn't believe I was a Russian as I didn't use a bright make up and didn't go anywhere being overdressed and I didn't know anything about websites like EM or AWeb...And I wasn't interested in meeting men "on purpose". Sometimes people made comments about me getting married soon or looked at my hands I was surprised and considered that to be a type of some strange joke as I really didn't understand that they thought I was one of the girls coming to USA just in order to find a husband.I realised that a couple of years later when I started reading more russian online forums about life abroad;)
So most of these girls is the example of the Russian "best middle class" unspoilt by humerous dates with AM of any age and categories.
I would advise the author of the thread to try to meet more girls in the place where he lives as it's probably one of the best choices.I am serious.
When I was in the USA I didn't judge AM by their look as it was very different from what I could see in Russia, it didn't bother me at all, I am honest, I had read many students' threads before and I was a student myself and jeans and t-shirts were the things that I had expected to see.Later when I had a relationship with an AM here in Russia I was rather surprised to see him wearing classical style clothes, asked myself what had made him look that way but in fact I didn't pay much attention to his clothing style.
So many girls will not."Low class" girls may judge americans by the way they look like. If you are going to attract them just go on, if you want to attract good ladies just be yourself and they will appreciate it.I am honest and good luck.
 
[/quote]

No disappointment Serebro.     I think that you discuss in more detail what I already knew and barely touched on. Of course I can only comment on the two dozen or so FSUW I have had interaction with on the northwest coast of Florida (the Panhandle). Perhaps we both over generalize a bit.............at any rate.............good information.

Regardless of the social backgrounds of the FSUW working the summers on the coastal areas of Florida one thing is quite apparent: Chris noticed a BIG difference between his local women (who are typically covered in tatoos and multiple piercings, talk like sailors and constantly party like it is 1999) and the FSUW he met.

I think Chris should try to make contact with the girl he mentioned and if nothing else, learn from her about her country and her/her countrymen's perceptions and attitudes
about America - and the Panhandle. 

[Son of Clyde]

I am starting to see gorgeous Russian women everywhere.
You don't have to travel overseas to meet them.
Many arrive on summer jobs and some manage to stay after failed K1's. If I were starting the search I would look for Russian clubs or Internet groups in my area.
As far as thick skinned I thnk quite a few of us could have fled after the initial insult but we stayed around (maybe we are sadists).
I think there is a wealth of knowledge and some great people at RWD.
Even the nastier guys soften up from time to time.

[ScottinCrimea]

I don't think there's a member on here who hasn't taken his share of criticism and abuse at one time or another.  But then compared to what I have gotten from AW, it's a walk in the park.  I just hate it when the person criticizing me is right. (a very rare occurrance 

[DKMM]

Groov and Gator gave the best advice here, not that i read each and every one...  A lot of guys went through hell to get married and probably think they earned their spot to shoot down others, I see people like that in the workplace and know why they act that way.  Take with some salt, guys twice your age don't really understand the dating scene in today's russia or the younger women...

Chris, they are doing you a favor by roughing you up a bit because its is difficult to mount this task.  But its not impossible to find someone for you.  No two women are alike, and especially in Russia, a vast country where regions produce different cultures.  I'm sure if you have the time and money, eventually you can find someone for you.  But you have to really WANT it like nothing you ever wanted in your life (and then work at it).

Finding a girlfriend there is very easy... but finding a wife?  I'm not sure there could be a more difficult way to go about it than this.  And I agree that you should look in a smaller city, but that's even more hard to find a proper girl.

I do wonder what some of these guys go through though.  Sure RW are blunt but you shouldn't allow a RW to disrespect you in any way.  Sorry if you have to put up with that maybe you should be a bit "stronger"  :noidea:

[Turboguy]

I do agree with you DKMM that Gator and Groov consistently give the best advice of most anyone on RWD.  Both are quite amazing in their ability to understand the core issues and deliver comments that are right on target.

I do disagree with you that anyone did Chris a favor.  If we did, where is he?   He was deprived of one of the best assets for anyone interested in persuing a RW.  Maybe if he was incapable of success and lacking in the inner qualities necessary, then they did do him a favor.  We never allowed him to hang his ballcap on the coat rack and learn.  We never let him hang around long enough to really learn about him. 

Did he really hang up his search for a RW?  I doubt it.  He is more likely picking a friendlier spot to learn like A-Webs website or one of the other scam agencies.  Once you get the bug you don't let go that easily.   

[groovlstk]

I do agree with you DKMM that Gator and Groov consistently give the best advice of most anyone on RWD. 

Thanks for the compliment, but my wife and I have yet to celebrate our first anniversary; every day is literally a new learning experience for us, sometimes I still feel like a babe in the woods (albeit a damned happy baby) with her.

I do think that I have a lot to contribute when it comes to the current FSU dating scene and ways to meet women, but I'm sure in another year or two things will change so dramatically that I'll be just another OMB getting flack for pickin' on guys like Chris 

[ScottinCrimea]

I do disagree with you that anyone did Chris a favor.  If we did, where is he?   He was deprived of one of the best assets for anyone interested in persuing a RW.  Maybe if he was incapable of success and lacking in the inner qualities necessary, then they did do him a favor.  We never allowed him to hang his ballcap on the coat rack and learn.  We never let him hang around long enough to really learn about him. 

Did he really hang up his search for a RW?  I doubt it.  He is more likely picking a friendlier spot to learn like A-Webs website or one of the other scam agencies.  Once you get the bug you don't let go that easily.   

I disagree.  No one deprived Chris of anything.  No one asked him to leave.  He left basically because he didn't hear what he wanted to hear.  I agree that some were overly harsh with him but it has been the same with others who have made the decision to stay anyway because they were committed to the pursuit and understood that this was the best place to find help..  I think even if we had been sugar sweet to him in the beginning he still would have eventually left because he had learned what he needed to know, that now wasn't the right time for him to be pursuing this endeavor.  If you remember, this was the real reason he cited for leaving.  So in our own awkward way, we gave him what he needed.

[LiveFromUkraine]

The comment is quite simple: trying to find the right AW or Canadian Woman or Martian if you want, takes time and it takes effort. It will require meeting lots of people, having plenty of boring dates and probably getting your heart broken once or twice. It also requires time and effort.

I think you are off your rocker buddy. 

Ken made some valid points that clearly make this incredibly more difficult than meeting some from your own country. 

I do know that it has been very difficult just from the difference in culture.  My wife spoke fluent english and we had difficulties understanding each other.  I can only imagine the woment that don't speak english very well.  I don't know how the men do it.  It takes a lot of time and love to get cut through the differences to finally understanding each other.  Much more so than a women you would meet at home.


Thomas



Thomas

[LiveFromUkraine]

Chris, first impressions are everything.  Americans are known for bad wearing.

You will need to be able to develop a more thicker skin.  I don't agree with some of the comments made about your clothing.  I found some downright rude.  But you will get to know that type of behavior if you continue this endeavor.

I can't tell you how many times my wife decided to be my "Friend" and tell me the truth.  I remember the first time she did that.  I think my jaw dropped to the ground.  Now I just make fun of her asking her not to be my friend.  Criticism can be a good thing.  It gives us the ability to grow and become better. 


Take the stuff said here as a way to become better and better prepared if you decide to go further with this.


Thomas

[Turboguy]

Thomas, I agree with much of what you have said.   There are a few things I would like to ask you about though.   I agree that a relationship is much more difficult when there are cultural and language differences but I think that is offset to a large degree by common goals.   You are usually meeting women who want to find a life partner where in American dating that is far less common.   I guess the two would offset to a degree but in actuality I see many more guys finding a life partner than I do on eHarmony.   Of course that does not always mean the life partner they found will be their partner for their whole life.

Was the problem with your wife being your friend the things she told you were things you would rather not know about?   You are not real clear on that and I think the goal often repeated in singles ad's is best friend, lover and spouse so I am assuming the problem was not that she wanted to be your friend.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Thomas, I agree with much of what you have said.   There are a few things I would like to ask you about though.   I agree that a relationship is much more difficult when there are cultural and language differences but I think that is offset to a large degree by common goals.   You are usually meeting women who want to find a life partner where in American dating that is far less common.   I guess the two would offset to a degree but in actuality I see many more guys finding a life partner than I do on eHarmony.   Of course that does not always mean the life partner they found will be their partner for their whole life.

Was the problem with your wife being your friend the things she told you were things you would rather not know about?   You are not real clear on that and I think the goal often repeated in singles ad's is best friend, lover and spouse so I am assuming the problem was not that she wanted to be your friend.

Her saying she was my being my friend was her way of telling me bluntly what was wrong with me. 
She is very direct and does not worry about being potically correct.  She loves me more than anything so I know she has my best interest at heart.
I now joke about her being my friend.  When she starts telling me things that she doesn't like I just say, oh great my friend is back.

I wasn't actively looking for someone from FSU.  We met online due to some research I was conducting on a possible software development center in Ukraine.  We became best friends.  You are correct, we had a lot of common goals and desires.  Honestly, I have never met anyone that wanted almost everything I wanted.  That helped us get through the tough times when we first started to live together.  You really need to love each other very deeply because it can be extremely difficult.  If it wasn't for our love, I don't think we would be together right now.


Thomas

[ScottinCrimea]

I wasn't actively looking for someone from FSU.  We met online due to some research I was conducting on a possible software development center in Ukraine.  We became best friends.  You are correct, we had a lot of common goals and desires.  Honestly, I have never met anyone that wanted almost everything I wanted.  That helped us get through the tough times when we first started to live together.  You really need to love each other very deeply because it can be extremely difficult.  If it wasn't for our love, I don't think we would be together right now.

Thomas

Having now experienced it from both sides, I'm of the conclusion that, as difficult as it is making the adjustments when you marry a lady and bring her to the US, and as much love, patience and mutual support as it requires, it is more difficult in every aspect when the man moves to the FSU to be with his wife.  I have seen many men try and fail and extremely few succeed.  I applaud Thomas because I know what he went through and is going through and he appears to be succeeding at it, probably better than I was doing at 7 months, though I will say that at least at that point my Russian was passable.  It requires a very deep love and commitment to each other, and in my case, an incredible MIL who got us through the difficult times because of her understanding and faith in us both.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Having now experienced it from both sides, I'm of the conclusion that, as difficult as it is making the adjustments when you marry a lady and bring her to the US, and as much love, patience and mutual support as it requires, it is more difficult in every aspect when the man moves to the FSU to be with his wife.  I have seen many men try and fail and extremely few succeed.  I applaud Thomas because I know what he went through and is going through and he appears to be succeeding at it, probably better than I was doing at 7 months, though I will say that at least at that point my Russian was passable.  It requires a very deep love and commitment to each other, and in my case, an incredible MIL who got us through the difficult times because of her understanding and faith in us both.

Thanks Scott.  You can't help but grow as a person throughout these types of experiences.  I am most definately behind on my Russian.   

I think we both are lucky to have found the women we did. 


Thomas