Character Problems with RM and RW

[ScottinCrimea]

Let's see if I can explain it better:

I am not putting AM on a par with RM in walking away from their children in divorce.  I am saying that from my experience, RM initiate the actual legal divorce at a lower rate than AM, children or no children.  In fact, in every case I know, it was the RW who sought the divorce, not her husband.  This is an entirely separate point from AM versus RM behavior toward their children after the divorce.

The part you highlighted in the first quote refers to the fact that some have commented that even within the marriage some RM "abandon" their families by not being there for them either physically or emotionally.  I was just making the point that we also see this behavior in the west with parents spending so much time either in their careers or other interests that they essentially abandon their children in the same way.

The last sentence was not contradictory at all.  I was talking about attitudes, not percentages.
Many men, AM or RM, will only pay child support because the law requires it and then only to the minimum amount possible.  I'm sure that if the law weren't as strict in the US regarding child support, there would be less AM men providing it and in a lesser amount.  I don't really know what the general attitudes are there regarding a father's moral responsibility to pay child support after divorce.  I only know that I have seen it both ways in both cultures - Some men pay only what the law requires of them and some pay more than that because their sense of moral responsibility to their children exceeds what the law requires of them.  It's this attitude that I was trying to get a handle on.

[SANDRO43]

Don't believe everything you read! Lots of woman want a strong family as long as their husband is a hunk, drives a Mercedes, and has a large bank account.

Now you're getting me really confused. I was under the impression that:
1. Most single members here do not conform to your colourful description above .
2. Most single members here are considering FSUW candidates because they appear to possess those family values that they cannot find in local women.
3. Most married members here appear to confirm that they indeed found those family values in the FSUW they married (many of whom were found through agencies, incidentally).

[Misha]

3. Most married members here appear to confirm that they indeed found those family values in the FSUW they married (many of whom were found through agencies, incidentally).

Do the men that are not satisfied stay here and continue posting?

[Jet]

Do the men that are not satisfied stay here and continue posting?

Ask Maxx 

[SANDRO43]

Do the men that are not satisfied stay here and continue posting?

Cannot say for sure, but I'd venture that if they did, it would not be for long, considering the probably ensuing avalanche of "I told you so, you stupid a$$hole" .

[softy]

Scott,
I really am not trying to bust your chops here but I am having a difficult time following your logic or meaning.Are you putting AM on par with RM in walking away from their children in divorce?  If so, I have to strongly disagree.  If anything the percentages are flip flopped.  (A small percentage of AM walk and a small percentage of RM do not

unfortunatly KenC is totaly right. i tried to remember all cases of divorcing around my friends and really only few of them are caring about ex-family good (i meant if they have children in ex-family). and only one supports total both families and ex-one and nowdays one. it's sad but it's our life. our men are weak mentaly mostly. actually many people have same problem in FSU but i don't think it's nation feature, it's because of transition period in our countries (for me Russia, Ukraine and Beylorussia are still like one country).

[Misha]

Mir, some men search in the FSU because women there have traditional values, at least that is what they read at some agency. I find that amusing too. There are good women in Western nations and good women tend to stay married and unavailable in the later years of men's lives such as most of us divorcees. Maybe good women in the FSU are available at a higher percentage than here? Who knows. But I do know if I visit an American dating site and an FSU dating site, there is a BIG difference on quality of women when judging the ladies physically. I can afford to travel and I'm not interested in BBW(big beautiful women) so that is why I looked elsewhere. I know there are high quality women in the FSU but one should not be blind to the amount of trailer trash that exist there either.

Billy, your honesty is refreshing. I do not know how many men I have encountered on forums that think that somehow women from the FSU are inherently more traditional that elsewhere. They hold these convictions in spite of the fact that most of them never met any women from the FSU. They somehow think that women from the FSU are yearning for the possibility of going to America and being a housewife and serving their new husbands.... Or so the agencies tell them. I have yet to meet a woman from Russia who fits that mold. Some do like cooking and do most of the housework, but they still want a career.

[William3rd]

If you think that all these AM are just dying to support their families after divorce, just hang around the Child Support Court on any given morning.

For me, I paid off my support obligation a year early but there is trash in both countries.  Since they seize passports after the support obligation arrearage gets too high here, you wont find too many looking overseas.

We do, however, have a higher level of men trying to maintain a bond with their children here.

[Blues Fairy]

I have yet to meet a woman from Russia who fits that mold. Some do like cooking and do most of the housework, but they still want a career.

In Russia, wanting a career and wanting a family are not such mutually exclusive desires as in the US.  Russian new moms get up to a year (or 1.5 years???) of paid maternity leave.  If most of them go back to work, it's because for most working is a necessity not a choice.  Accepted necessity, on the other hand, may become a desire.  I'm a perfect example.  For me, pursuing a career and having no family was a non-choice for many years, but nobody would have guessed that deep inside, I was dying to relax a little, forget about work, do some cooking and housework... if only I could find someone dependable enough to do it for.  But that's the problem. I don't know if I'll ever learn to be a housewife after all these years, even if I try very hard.   

[Misha]

In Russia, wanting a career and wanting a family are not such mutually exclusive desires as in the US.  Russian new moms get up to a year (or 1.5 years???) of paid maternity leave.  If most of them go back to work, it's because for most working is a necessity not a choice.  Accepted necessity, on the other hand, may become a desire.  I'm a perfect example.  For me, pursuing a career and having no family was a non-choice for many years, but nobody would have guessed that deep inside, I was dying to relax a little, forget about work, do some cooking and housework... if only I could find someone dependable enough to do it for.  But that's the problem. I don't know if I'll ever learn to be a housewife after all these years, even if I try very hard.   

My wife said the same thing: she wanted to rest after years of working, but after a few months, she was bored and telling me that should not stand being inside the same four walls all day. Now, she is studying English full-time which helps.

[Blues Fairy]

My wife said the same thing: she wanted to rest after years of working, but after a few months, she was bored and telling me that should not stand being inside the same four walls all day. Now, she is studying English full-time which helps.

For me, finding things to do would not be a problem since I'm a singer-songwriter and 90% of my stuff is still unrecorded.  The main problem would be the psychological discomfort of being dependent on my SO financially.  I simply have no exprerience of this kind to relate to.

[Misha]

For me, finding things to do would not be a problem since I'm a singer-songwriter and 90% of my stuff is still unrecorded.  The main problem would be the psychological discomfort of being dependent on my SO financially.  I simply have no exprerience of this kind to relate to.

That is a difficult transition. Also, as a signer songwriter you would have to find a decent studio to record and you would need to find colleagues to work with. So, you would not be staying home all the time either and at some point you would would grow tires of a life of washing dishes and clothes.

[Makkin]

Hello,

  I'm a single parent with custody of my daughter and it's been that way since 1997. My divorce was a divorce from my wife and not my daughter as she is my blood and the most cherished thing in my life.
  In my book if a man does not accept the responsibility of his children in any situation he is not and never will be welcome in any aspect of my life. I cannot tolerate the men who do not try 100% to make the best for the children who are affected by divorce or any other type of seperation by their parents.
  I just cannot fathom the actions of a man who would or could let his blood suffer for anything. They deserve jail time for any and all obligations not fulfilled under divorce arrangements and they also should be made to understand how these type actions will sometimes cause damage for the children that may take many years to repair.

Makkin

[William3rd]

Lucky for the US guys that some of the FSU men are so easy to abandon their children. Move aways would be pretty tough if every man went to court to fight for their custody rights. Mom could go but the child would stay behind with Dad.

[KenC]

Hello,

  I'm a single parent with custody of my daughter and it's been that way since 1997. My divorce was a divorce from my wife and not my daughter as she is my blood and the most cherished thing in my life.
  In my book if a man does not accept the responsibility of his children in any situation he is not and never will be welcome in any aspect of my life. I cannot tolerate the men who do not try 100% to make the best for the children who are affected by divorce or any other type of seperation by their parents.
  I just cannot fathom the actions of a man who would or could let his blood suffer for anything. They deserve jail time for any and all obligations not fulfilled under divorce arrangements and they also should be made to understand how these type actions will sometimes cause damage for the children that may take many years to repair.

Makkin

Makkin,
My thoughts exactly!  Even in the best divorce situations, the kids are damaged by it.  Here we have the court system to insure that all payments are made, but there is no insurance that the Dad's will live up to their other parental duties.
KenC

[ScottinCrimea]

There is also no insurance that mothers will live up to their parental duties.  It cuts both ways.

[Simoni]

In Russia, wanting a career and wanting a family are not such mutually exclusive desires as in the US.  Russian new moms get up to a year (or 1.5 years???) of paid maternity leave. 

This can also work in a negative way for the woman.  Marina failed to get several jobs in Ukraine because the boss said "I won't hire you. You will just get pregnant and take maternity leave."

[Makkin]

Hi,

  Ken,

  It breaks my heart to see children without the attention of both parents regardless of marriage/divorce  etc.. Many times I've seen what happens to these children in the long run and it causes pain to myself.

  Nothing in my book is more special than a child who needs love and attention. Once I was a lifeguard in Galveston for a couple of years through the Sherriffs Department and many children became lost and I organized the day care so to speak..lol
  The best compliment I will ever receive in MY LIFE and I always remember this is when a girl was lost and I found her crying because she lost her parents/?? at the beach. After carrying her on my back about a mile we arrived at the playpen and I dropped her off. In this short time she was connected to me very much and cried for me not to leave her. As I wiped the tears from her face and caused a tear or two from (former Marine..lol)me I then and there decided I would wait forever for her parents to arrive.
  A woman of 50 or so years old had been watching the whole time and when the happy ended was made and I was leaving the woman grabbed my arm as I turned around as she was crying. She told me she had never seen such a sensitive action by a man in her whole life and she begged in sorts to never lose "that". I have never lost it and remember that all through my life.
  Children are special and a gift.

Makkin

[WmGO]

In another thread (I think the money thread) AnastasiaAsh
mentioned that most of her AM clients were very succesful - and that the
real question that she deals with most of the time is the honesty of the FSUW.

Anastasia, would you please elaborate including the things you
have experienced over the years? 

[AnastassiaAsh]

Well, i am not sure what exactly you are asking, but I can say that after communicating with my clients for some time i learn more about them and most of them, if not all, are very good honest guys who know what they want and who just need more help and insight into a woman's soul so to speak. If some of them have problems in whatever field or misgivings i always share my opinion. I try to be honest and open and sometimes calling a spade a spade is necessary. I will never put my services interest higher than my desire for their success. I will always stop them where they should and tell them it is useless instead of just letting him be in the dark. This way or the other I understand their particular situation better and who they are by character.

With RW, it is different, because I don't connect with them as often as with men. i mean that most of the time men come to me for some help and advice, not vice versa, allthough there were some women too. So the character of a specific woman is more of a closed book for me than a man's, but through letters and calls it can sometimes become pretty clear and some times not clear even to me. So i help men to clarify all those misgivings that both he and I might have about a woman.

[WmGO]

Anastasia, I referred to the wrong post. THIS is the post I was referring to and seeking your elaboration on:

From your post in the Odds and Ends forum on January 28, 2008
at 10:49:59 A.M. in the Diplomacy Thread:


The last sentence: " But I would say that it is still pretty hard to find a truly
                            honest Russian Woman."



Sidenote:I don't know how to paste that post here - I tried a couple different
ways and failed so I settled for just citing the location.

[Daveman]

I haven't read this entire thread so apologies if this is a repeat.

A little off topic perhaps, as more to do with "weeding out" character flaws than causes or discussion of specifics.

I think the biggest "problem" WM have with RW (or any woman) is that we have a tendency to shut off and ignore that inner warning alarm system that fires off at the subtle indicators of flaws, or of what lies ahead.  If we would actually listen to it and use it rather than rationalize the wailing sirens as some form of new music inspired by the beauty of this "incredible woman", we'd have far fewer horror stories.

We sense much more than we imagine but rarely use that information wisely.

Dave

[Gator]

WmGo quoting AnastassiaAsh

But I would say that it is still pretty hard to find a truly honest Russian Woman.

That is a significant statement.  We do not know if Anastassia was talking about her friends and/or RW she interacts with as an interpreter.  Her statement came in the context of addressing some contentious threads as opposed to a thread dedicated to honesty or character.

My fiancee is very honest, as honest as I have known with any woman.  OTOH, my other RW fiancee was deceptive.  I will spare the elaboration.  Eacch one is different. 

In a society where women in general expect men to be unfaithful and reluctantly accept it provided he does not talk about it, one could question their honesty. After all, what is good for the gander is good for the goose.

[Gator]

Daveman,

we have a tendency to shut off and ignore that inner warning alarm system that fires off at the subtle indicators of flaws

Real men don’t eat quiche, don’t lower the toilet seat, and don’t listen to women directly or indirectly. 

Seriously, to a freshman encountering RW, there is a much static in the signal amid the noise and confusion of being in a different world.  At least that was how I felt.  Yet, after asking questions everything made sense by the end of the day.

[AnastassiaAsh]

Truly honest woman is a rare thing, especially Russian. I think those who are successfully married on this board fished out the best of the best from Russian environment, they are in this sense not typical. Also it is hard to talk about this as the definition of honesty might be different with different people.

Women like to flirt, say sweet nothings, say yes when it means no and no when it means yes, say great when she hates it and vice versa, she can give silent treatments and the whole bouquet of this kind of feminine behaviour. I personally am totally the opposite and haven't noticed my tendencies in any other Russian woman i know back in Moscow.

I am all about quality, meaning, honesty, communication and clarity. These are the words that you could have found in bold in my profile. I am the one who would want to hear true opinion from my husband if these jeans are good on me or not. I trust him to say no if they are not, and i don't get hurt really, but on the other hand appreciate his honesty and thus can change for the better and be truly better! You can't change (in any sphere of life) with out honestly criticizing yourself and only then moving forward.

I absolutely hate 'half truths' or 'half lies'. So much so i have even some difficulty in raising my son in this sense because you absolutely have to use different wordings, make up stories or whatever, that won't be completely true but be for his benefit. I absolutely cannot say Yes and then do what I planned to do any way.

If I say i will be there at 2pm I will never be late other than the accident or something like that. And i hate when other people abuse my time.

Relationship taught me immensely how to be honest but not blunt and rude. It is something I am still mastering but hope i have had a great progress over these years.

I have noticed that Western men are looking more for this type of a woman and consider themselves blessed if they found one like that. No games, no hints. Just clarity, steadfast trust and love. With such an honest woman it is easy to be a one week wonder, it would probably be strange not to. If my man is the same then I can accept his proposal in 3 days (with a long and detailed correspondence preceding it of course). And it will NOT be crazy and immature.

Do you guys know what I mean?

    

And one other thing. Communication is the tool for success in any marriage. It means 'talking'. Very few women find it easy to ask their husbands just to talk about something they don't like in him or what he did. I not only wait but i RUN to do it. It's the key to earning trust, it's the necessary tool for understanding. This is how me and my husband understand each other and come to the conclusion that me and him are not from Venus and Mars, but from ONE planet and we are actually closer and trustworthy than any two girly girls or two true buddies.