Where's Turbo?

[Turboguy]

Ken,  I think you totally misunderstood what I was saying.   I am not implying that Lena does not have great qualities or that you were desperate.   

I was saying that you had a great deal of luck to find someone who has filled your life with happiness the way Lena has and that you could easily have searched for 10 years without finding what you did.   To think that gals with the quality of VWRW or Lena are falling out of trees and everyone should meet one on the first trip shows an oversimplification of what pitfalls are out there for AM.

BC, nice post.  The whole truth may be that no one really understands all that much about the subject.

[BC]

Hard hats on sale... only $2.99

[Simoni]

I disagree with this ...I was searching for 17 years before I found the right one.

I do think the amount of time spent in the pursuit is relevant to the outcome, the more you meet, the more you put into it, the better your knowledge & the chance for success when you do make the final call.

All star quote.... true wisdom.

[BC]

This is one of the things I always get curious about and never seem to get answers to.  Why do you feel more would have been too much.   I am just wondering since the age difference seems to cause no problems for VWRW & I. 

Along with the many other considerations discussed in that thread, a couple more years age difference and my wife would have been younger than my eldest daughter, maybe younger than both.  Our youngest daughter is now 13 representing 'only' a 34 year age difference.  In realistic terms the 'envelope' is already at the limit.  But hey - that's just me.

Sorry BC but where do you see any inconsistencies at all.   VWRW is from Barnaul and the woman I was talking about.   We had daily correspondence that showed me the qualities that made her special to me but as is advised here I was not about to fall in love with photos or letters and was waiting until we met to see how things went in person.   Had that meeting not gone well I would have returned to Ukraine and spent more time with two women I met on Jack's tour.  The meeting with VWRW was everything I hoped for an more and I stopped my search.   My actions and words were as consistant as anything could be.

Your interest at the social was primarily for the benefit of your son, and your mind was already in Bernaul.  The women at the social had at the most an outside chance and your disinterest obvious.  You stated above you were already 'in love' but at that point had never met VW.  -Whatever floats your boat.  Turbo, I really have no bone in this.. just one favor - don't continue fooling yourself - your words vs actions are schizophrenic.

[vwrw]

This is post from Turboguy:

BC, I have had a number of times that I thought I had found someone wonderful and when the meeting occurred there was some kind of problem.   Sometimes it was that there was just no chemistry.   Sometimes the chemistry seemed there but so was the scams and lies and dishonesty, sometimes it was other things.  

Yes, I went on Jack's tour for my son and because I did not think he would go alone.   I had very high hopes for VWRW and I had a few on the back burner in case we did not turn out to be right for each other.   Read paragraph one.   I was not going to count my chickens or burn any bridges.   My plan was to meet VWRW and if that didn't work go back to Ukraine and meet the hairdresser (no English) from Zap that I called the nose and a Concert Pianist (No English) from Kharkov.   If that didn't work it would have been off to a few Russian Cities to meet some more.   I was just determined to spend as much time as I could to find the right one.

So your only problem with the age difference is in your own mind.   That it bothers you that a younger woman could be younger than your daughter.   There are no real problems from it except what your mind can accept as normal for you.   Had you dated many younger woman before your wife?  

[timothe]

Tim,  My impressions are that for the most part the quality of the guys in the search have improved a lot.   I do have to temper that with the knowledge that the guys I encounter are from different sources than they used to be.   For example the guys I met on Jack's tour were head and shoulders better than the guys I met on my three EC tours.   I see a lot of new guys introduce themselves here that seem like good guys.  Some of the ones that I have met in hotels, airports and internet cafes there seem to have far less quality.  I have to think guys who care to join RWD and learn and try to do things right are higher quality than guys who get fixated on the physical and go over blind or with a sleazy agency.

The two guys I met at the hotel in Kiev and the two guys I met on the plane ride home were very dysfunctional people.  Maybe it was just my personal experience, but I didn't meet any man like you'd find here in my travels.  

When I was dating my ladyfriend in 2003, I was doing the deal at the same time as guys like Jet, AJ, MarkinTx, and Leslie.  Back then, it seemed like most of the people I met in my travels were decent people like them.  That's what led me to my conclusion.  (but again, my sample size was very small)

[BC]

This is post from Turboguy:

So your only problem with the age difference is in your own mind.   That it bothers you that a younger woman could be younger than your daughter.   There are no real problems from it except what your mind can accept as normal for you.   Had you dated many younger woman before your wife?   

Turbo,

Reading comprehension is obviously not your greatest asset.  Either you really do not understand or insist on beating around the bush.. - I don't have a clue which.

You may wish to revisit that thread, IIRC there was a lot of good content you obviously overlooked in denial. Yes I admit I enjoyed dating younger women (what red blooded male doesen't) but never with intentions to marry one (talking max 12 years).  I will also be the first to admit that the true consequences of our decision were a bit hazed  by rose colored glasses.  Reality does catch up with us however and after 5 years together we both today agree we have much tougher times ahead.

For those that don't know, I'm 47 and my wife is 30.

[KenC]

Quote from: Rvrwind on Today at 08:05:53 AM

I disagree with this ...I was searching for 17 years before I found the right one.

I do think the amount of time spent in the pursuit is relevant to the outcome, the more you meet, the more you put into it, the better your knowledge & the chance for success when you do make the final call.

All star quote.... true wisdom.

Simoni,
It is "true wisdom" only if you take it out of context!  When you attach 10 or 17 years to the statement it is idiotic.  Ever hear of the point of diminishing returns?  I would think that if after a few years a man did not make much progress, he should go in another direction.  Not too many guys make their search into a 10 to 17 years Holy Crusade like some.  (Step back from the forest and see the trees, please)
KenC

[Gator]

I would go on and venture to say that any man that needs 10 years to find a suitable mate is: using the wrong methods, has a criteria that is absurd, not very serious, has some serious mental issues or some combination of all.

My case:
1999:  Wife says, “Find a girlfriend; I want an open marriage”. 
1999 – 2007:   Two exclusive relationships with AW and two exclusive relationships with RW and a large number of others. 

Hopefully, my Moscow woman will be here in 2008.  That adds up to 9 years.  What would be my reason for taking almost 10 years? 

“Using the wrong methods” -  I am careful, and I made battlefield mistakes, but I do not consider my methods wrong.  Why? I had no method, other than to meet women.  If I liked them and they liked me, we dated again and again.  Our reasons for parting had nothing to do with a method.  In fact until I went to Russia I never looked for women – somehow the AW found me. 

“Absurd criteria” – Maybe.   I am not easily satisfied and throughout my dating life have always limited my choices to high-quality women (brains, beauty, partner-like, and fun-loving).   Well, one did not speak English and I can only guess that she was smart, but she sure was fun!  While I am fastidious, I choose to be that way and I live contently with the consequences.  We are all unique individuals with unique aspirations.

“Not very serious” – After a long marriage I was in a rebound.  It is best to delay if not avoid commitment when in a rebound.  But it does not mean that I was insincere or misled women. 

“Serious mental issues” – You must have talked to my golfing buddies.

Simply stated, I see my situation as someone who would not settle for anything less than someone very special.  I rather live alone than live with someone who is not my sunshine.    Why can’t we say that about Turbo?

Turbo, you have your hands full with VWRW.  Do not defend yourself here.  Take Vaughn’s advice and concentrate on helping her adjust and achieve her dreams.  Do not waste any of your energy on people who somehow can not wish you well without criticizing you for the 1000th time.

Please continue to check in and let us know how the two of you are doing.   I sincerely would like to know how VWRW progresses because my RW is also full of drive and determination.  So please give us that periodic report.  Hopefully your progress there will silence a few.

[Kuna]

Richard,
How many men would enter into this venture if they thought it was a 10 year commitment?  If your 17 years searching were all in Russia, I too would think you were an idiot or at the very least, not sincerely searching.  I would go on and venture to say that any man that needs 10 years to find a suitable mate is: using the wrong methods, has a criteria that is absurd, not very serious, has some serious mental issues or some combination of all.
KenC

KenC,

I wish you would stop taking the words out of my mouth... 

To parallel someone who was "single" for 11 years (me - if you don't cont my 4 year "live-in fling" - but trust me... I was still "single" then) with someone who travels to FSU for 10 or 11 years "looking for marriage" is a pretty big stretch.

I know what I was doing for those 11 years and if my experience is similar in any way to Turbo's he's not only a "nice guy"... he's one hell of a sex tourist. 

My ONLY concern is that others might look at Turbo's posts and think that his is a valid method of finding love and marriage in FSU.  Sure... following his method might give a one in a million chance, but I believe RWD is best at helping men reduce their risk and Turbo does NOTHING to reduce risk.

There's a lot of discussion about the age thing...  Ultimately we will all choose the age gap we are comfortable with.  Sure, increased age increases the risks but if one accepts that then they own the responsibility for whatever happens.

Turbo says (almost) with disdain that some of the women he met on his early trips would be pushing 50 now...  OMG.... imagine that?  A 67 yr old man with a 50 yr old woman.  The concept is disgusting (for some).

My biggest concern is this...

Turbo, the nice guy, is very helpful.  I believe he wants to share in the experience with others but his advice is almost always shallow are ill-conceived.

Some really simple examples are:

- His recommendations for service provides that he has never used.  Someone comes in and asks a question and they get a PM "XYZ is a great guy, he really helped me, he is honest and you can trust him."...  he forgets to tell people he's never met the guy.

- He says openly the age factor isn't as big a deal for him as it is for others BUT IT IS.  What's different is his disregard for the dangers - but the dangers and complexities are still there.  The biggest difference is that his fantasy is stronger than his reality.

- A VERY RECENT EXAMPLE...  Yesterday in a thread someone is asking advice about Language software.  Turbo gives a long and detailed recommendation for Pimsleur but doesn't moderate his review with the fact that even though he prefers Pimsleur (because he can listen to it in his car rather than making dedicated time to learn a language) he still isn't near fluent in Russian.  After 10 years of travel to FSU, so many language programs AND these "best of the best" (Pimsleur CD's) he STILL isn't fluent... yet he recommends this guy goes with Pimsleur because it's easier.

An HONEST answer would be "I've tried them all and traveled to FSU for 10 years and none of it worked for me.  Learn a few phrases from free web sites and I'm sure any lady you meet will be happy you've made an effort".

If someone asked him how many tablets to take if they wanted to suicide he'd probably say "Take the whole bottle", rather than ask why they wanted to know how to suicide"


Turbo IS a nice guy...  no one can doubt his tenacity... I believe he wants to help and be involved but he is VERY dangerous to anyone that listens to him.  No one would wish him ill but I just wish he would stop misleading people.



vwrw... whenever you post in here I wonder who it is, the proven liar or the sweet, honest, intelligent girl Turbo has seen on all of those vacations in exotic locations.   

Our contempt for each other is well known.  I wish you all the best and hope your dreams plans come out exactly as you desire.

btw... My shower comments were all in jest...  I can't criticise you for not picking up on it but I thought I'd point it out anyway.





In closing...  Anyone supportive of Turbo decisions, advice or conduct (when they are clearly inadequate) isn't only making themselves feel good at the very moment they cuddle up to him - they are leaving a record supporting actions that increases risk for others to read in future.  You're not only making yourself feel good.... you're putting others in danger.  I hope you're around to provide encouragement and a cuddle to those future members who will suffer.

I know several members here that have done risky things (me included) but they don't come here to brag about it and try to make it appear legitimate.

[Simoni]

Quote from: Rvrwind on Today at 08:05:53 AMAll star quote.... true wisdom.

Simoni,
It is "true wisdom" only if you take it out of context!   When you attach 10 or 17 years to the statement it is idiotic.  Ever hear of the point of diminishing returns?  I would think that if after a few years a man did not make much progress, he should go in another direction.  Not too many guys make their search into a 10 to 17 years Holy Crusade like some.  (Step back from the forest and see the trees, please)
KenC

Rvrwind (Richard) wrote--- "the more you put into it, the better your knowledge & the chance for success when you do make the final call."

I guess we all provide context, KenC.  What I read that Richard wrote was that he would have been a fool to marry a girl just to get married. Some guys do that, you know.  They make it a race.  Their goal is to get married.  What is far smarter is to view dating in the fsu like dating at home.  (So yes, step back from the forest and see the trees, please)

Thus yes, Richard's quote says a lot. 

And BTW-- if we are counting years in the "search," it is the entire search, from the date of divorce until the second marriage.  Some guys look around in American 8 years and then 2 years in the fsu.  That is still a 10 year search.

[Son of Clyde]

Fall in  love with a picture?

BC, I believe Turbo had previously met VWRW, not just her picture. I may be wrong, but I seem to remember they did meet in real life. If this is not so I know they did correspond for awhile.

[Son of Clyde]

What really disturbs me about this thread is that while you are wishing Turbo well you are also looking for reasons for the union to fail. It is my opinion we should have a positive attitude and let the relationship evolve without the implied negativity.

If I had a dying relative and people were saying how sorry they were and in the same breath saying at least it will all be over soon, I would be very upset.

Give the relationship time, I am sure Ray will be honest about how he and VWRW are doing. And I hope they prove you all to be wrong.

[KenC]

BC, I believe Turbo had previously met VWRW, not just her picture. I may be wrong, but I seem to remember they did meet in real life. If this is not so I know they did correspond for awhile.

Clyde,
If my memory serves me correctly, I do believe you are wrong.  Turbo had not yet met VWRW, and stated so, earlier in this thread, when he was on Jack's tour.  Remember, he headed home only to jump back on a plane to Barnal to meet her?
KenC

[I/O]

If I had a dying relative and people were saying how sorry they were and in the same breath saying at least it will all be over soon, I would be very upset.

Is it just me, or do others find this strange? :noidea: :noidea: To my way of thinking that is exactly how caring people think.....Death for a suffering friend/relative is sad but the joy is in the pending relief. I hope that is exactly what people think when my turn comes.

I/O

[KenC]

Is it just me, or do others find this strange? :noidea: :noidea: To my way of thinking that is exactly how caring people think.....Death for a suffering friend/relative is sad but the joy is in the pending relief. I hope that is exactly what people think when my turn comes.

I/O

Not for the Clydster.
KenC

[Son of Clyde]

No you have it all wrong I am referring to when people are sympathetic on the surface but really are praying for the worst. Maybe my analogy was wrong. Sorry KenC you can jump all over me on this one, but even if the Turbo & VWRW age difference is 37 years, since Turbo looks a good 10 years younger than his chronological age and is in very good shape, I can see the relationship as standing the test of time. What makes your relationship any more acceptable? You came from a priveledged background (father an executive) and have some $$$$'s as well. Is it because you took less time finding your wife or made fewer trips to the FSU?

[Turboguy]

Reality does catch up with us however and after 5 years together we both today agree we have much tougher times ahead.

The mind is an amazing thing BC and I am sure if you convince yourself of that it will happen. 

[KenC]

No you have it all wrong I am referring to when people are sympathetic on the surface but really are praying for the worst. Maybe my analogy was wrong. Sorry KenC you can jump all over me on this one, but even if the Turbo & VWRW age difference is 37 years, since Turbo looks a good 10 years younger than his chronological age and is in very good shape, I can see the relationship as standing the test of time. What makes your relationship any more acceptable? You came from a priveledged background (father an executive) and have some $$$$'s as well. Is it because you took less time finding your wife or made fewer trips to the FSU?

Clyde,
Please re read this thread and find where I said anything more than just a passing comment about Turbo/VWRW's age difference.  I have not.  I have also said that I live in a glass house on this issue.  I have wished them both well and the issues I have with Turbo have been explained.

Maybe you should ask yourself some questions though.  Like, why is so important for you to constantly bring up wealth and money?  Do you feel so inadequate around people who are not in your same tax bracket that you feel you must throw insults?  It is you, Clyde that keeps bringing that up, not me.

As for my success or failure, I can only say that I have had a good marriage for the eight years so far without too much trouble.  i would consider that successful so far, but you can always have a different opinion.
KenC

[Rvrwind]

It is "true wisdom" only if you take it out of context!   When you attach 10 or 17 years to the statement it is idiotic.  Ever hear of the point of diminishing returns?  I would think that if after a few years a man did not make much progress, he should go in another direction.  Not too many guys make their search into a 10 to 17 years Holy Crusade like some.  (Step back from the forest and see the trees, please)
KenC

How ridiculous...I was divorced for 17 years, it was an ongoing search for a mate. Whether it be the FSU or anywhere else it was 17 years of looking. Maybe some of us are just a little more choosy in who we choose to be with than others. Maybe some of us got lucky & found her licketty split. Maybe some of us are divorced one week & remarried the next. It is all irrelevant...what is relevant is what was obtained in the end by your preferred method & to your preferred standards.

Ever hear of the point of diminishing returns?

What in hell is that supposed to mean? She isn't a chattel...I wasn't in a hurry, I was choosy & I wasn't about to settle for less than I wanted. I also wasn't celibate, does that make me a sex tourist???
A slut maybe, but not a sex tourist!!!

[Turboguy]

We just came back from our first clothes shopping trip.   I have a happy RW on my hands.   I even got a few things such as she finally got me into shoes other than the $ 19.95 WalMart ones.   Now I have a $ 6.95 pair from a shoe store.

Kuna, you crack me up sometimes.   Knowing you does make me think Timothe was right.

KenC,

vwrw... whenever you post in here I wonder who it is, the proven liar or the sweet, honest, intelligent girl Turbo has seen on all of those vacations in exotic locations.   

VWRW says to wonder all you want you will never know.  

SOC,  Ken is right on that.   I did not meet VWRW until 2 weeks after Jack's tour.   I am sort of glad it worked that way only because I would have found Jack's tour very difficult if I had met VWRW first and knew what I had found with her.  I may have had some reservations about my future with anyone I met but it was not a done deal at that point.

Ken, as far as SOC's comments about wealth, nothing personal but he probably keeps wondering how a cranky old fart can end up with any women never the less a beautiful and intelligent one.

Gator,  Thanks, that was a nice post.  I am not sure why the length of time anyone searches is a factor at all other than I think being a one week wonder is sometimes not good.   Ken was lucky and they were able to get a student visa for Lena which is not an option for most guys, otherwise he would have been in the same boat.

I think it shows more wisdom to spend time getting it right than to rush into something you will regret.   Funny thing is the only one in my first 7 years or so who struck me as one who might have had possibilities was one from my very first trip.  Otherwise most everyone in that period were scammers or wacko's

I used to sit around with tons of free time while I waited.   I don't have nearly as much time now and do make VWRW my top priority.   Something like answering Kuna's foolish comments that are mostly the same drivel he has said for ages is not worth the effort.  I will try an keep people updated.  

Gator, I am sure your woman will do well in the American scene.   I see so many women who don't want to lift a finger to help themselves that the drive someone like VWRW or your gal has just amazes me.   I am looking forward to helping VWRW's dreams come true and I think I will get as much enjoyment and satisfaction as she will without all the hard work she will have.

Nice post Rvrwind.   I think that is about as right on the mark as anything could be.   Russia may have some great women but they don't exactly fall out of the trees and you can have some of the other kind create detours.   It is just not something that needs to be scored with a clock.   Finding a good woman and happiness is what is important.

[Vaughn]

  It just keeps on comin' folks!

There've been several gems of wisdom in this thread by various posters. Perhaps it's just me,
but I see this "regular reporting" as very self-destructive  -  at least, it would have been
to us - and "us" is really my only valid point of reference, other than a sizeable number of
couples who were extremely sparing or totally absent in posting the details Turbo seems to
enjoy doing. Apparently with his fiance's blessing. Defensive statements, explanations,
regurgitated history, and now - shoe purchases. So be it.

It's just not how we operated, that's all. I'm through advising this couple, and out of this thread.

Vaughn

[Turboguy]

Vaughn, thanks for your participation.   I might want to say the topic of the thread is "Where is Turbo?" and we have never asked for any advice. 

I am always happy to hear peoples opinions.   I respect their right to those opinions even the ones I disagree with.   Opinions and advice are two different things.   Never once have we asked advice or expressed the need for any input from anyone about the course we want our life to take.

Anyone who felt they were dispensing advice should have said so in advance and I would have been happy to tell them they were wasting their breath.     

[KenC]

Richard,
You have got to understand that  am referring to 10 and 17 years of searching for a wife in the fsu countries specifically not total time between marriages.  There was about 8 years between my divorce and marriage to Lena.  During that time I was never looking for a wife quite frankly and was quite happy with my bachelor ways. I always said that I would never get married again unless it was perfect.  Lena is damn close in my book, nuf said.
KenC

[KenC]

Anyone who felt they were dispensing advice should have said so in advance and I would have been happy to tell them they were wasting their breath.      

Turbo,
Well, that does kind of sum things up.  Best of luck to you and VWRW in your future together.
KenC