So confused,, Ok experienced one's, I need advice!

[Mishenka]

Finally after endless days of waiting, Tatiana finally wrote me an email and then called to talk things over for 45 minutes.  The email said,  "My cuddle bear, I'm sorry I just don't feel any chemistry anymore and I can't be in relationship where there is no chemistry"   Thank you for all the wonderful songs you wrote me, nice dates and everything you do for me. You make me so happy.  Your tanushka.

The first 8 weeks were filled with nice dates, fireworks and what she called "chemistry and sparks" between us.   The last 3 weeks were empty, a short call back for 5 minutes once a week to say "everything is fine, just so busy".   The next 2 weeks she is silent.  Tonight, she  calls me, floods me with compliments,, saying I'm handsome,  I do all the right things, I'm her kind of man,  that I tell her just what she wants to hear. I write her love songs, she loves to get my emails. Tells me that I'm such a loving man,, her good friend,  when she is in school and can't stop thinking about me, she is distracted in class and can't do her work,  etc.

 She builds me up with 20 minutes of chat and then says,, but,, the chemistry is gone.  So I tell her, well you haven't seen me in 3 weeks.  It is typical if you don't spend time together you will drift apart like a ship without an anchor.  She says you are a good friend, such a nice man,   I don't want to loose your friendship. I asked why she didn't tell me this 3 weeks ago, she says she didn't feel this way then.  She says,  there is no chemistry and she feels nothing now.  She says is lonely, when I'm right here waiting for her to call or come see me. 

Then  tonight she tries to hook me up with her best friend Lena, who we get together with and have a few drinks,,  so now I'm confused. She sends me emails tonight with links to Russian dating sites, and gives Lena my phone number.  How awkward would it be to be sitting across from the woman I love and be dating her best friend??  I don't get it,  what is going in here??  Why build me up and then with one word "chemistry" cut me down? What is she really afraid of? our last date she could not keep her hands off me, and now there is no chemistry?

 She confuses me. She wants to still date but not get to serious.  She wants to keep looking for the perfect man who she "clicks" with. So I guess my "click" wasn't a big enough fire works for her.   

I didn't try to sweep her off her feet on purpose, no $200 nights out at expensive restaurants, or 2 dozen roses delivered to the table, no expensive wine. I kept everything simple and low key so we get to know each other because she asked me to. With my ex gf I was spending at least $250  each week on dates, and it back fired on me.  Sometimes one partner having money and the other not having much,  builds a wall between people.  I think that is what happend here in both cases.  I feel she is being honest, but im trying to read between the lines.

Any suggestions?  Anyone?

Misha

[Lily]

Oh my, that is really sad to read.  My sympathies to you Michenka..

People can be sometimes confusing..may be she took for chemistry the feelings that were not the chemistry, actually. May be she wanted to fall in love very much. May be she worked hard to create this chemistry, to help it happen, but it just did not come through. Probably she lost interest...Probably she did not have enough trust in herself..well, we never know.

This can happen to many people. Sad, sad, sad. 

If a person however knows what she really wants from the beginning, knows her instincts and is able to recognise the chemistry whether it is here or not, things like this will not happen.

[Mishenka]

Thanks Lilya, 

Tanushka was saying tonight that Lena keeps asking about me, or about us,, like how is it going and all the things best friends talk about,,  but it strikes me as odd to have her tell me "I gave Lena your phone number" 

The other thing, while we talked,  I kept reassuring my love for her and she would say, thank you,, so I wonder, could all this be a test? Sometimes a woman will act this way and see how I react to her.  Then if I am still serious about her she will change her mind and come back.  So she writes two emails tonight after talking and here I thought it was over.

Later in the conversation she asks if I want to come down and sing to her and Lena,, one night the songs I wrote for her,  There are 3 of them and two she has not yet heard.  so I said, sure I will do a mini concert.  one one condition,, Because these two take a belly dance class at the local college. I offer to sing if they dance! 

We will see how it goes.  Still, my heart is crushed, I need some time to heal.  I asked Tanya, please don't give my number to Lena so soon, but,, I think its to late. 

Hummmm,, intresno 

[Lily]

Test? If she finds that you are still serious about her she will change her mind and come back to you?

It looks like Tanya has a sort of a deep inside mistrust to men, and hardly can believe that a good man could really love her. Well, this thing sometimes happen to women. They may not really believe it is true when a man loves them.

[Mishenka]

Lily, 

Tanushka was married 5 years to a Russian guy, who was living in America.  She tells me they met at  6 years ago at a weeding in Siberia, then he moved her here, even when she didn't even know him.  After 5 years, they divorced,  about 1 year ago.  She says tonight, they never talk,  he drank to much and was abusive, and left her with nothing when they divorced. She got a job, moved out and then divorced him.  She does not want to go back to Siberia!   I feel bad for her.  She struggles so much in life.  She tells me she wants to find her equal but not a Russian man.  She wants American guy.  So, maybe you are right?    Is it possible to stay friends?  Or just let her go?

"It looks like Tanya has a sort of a deep inside mistrust to men, and hardly can believe that a good man could really love her. Well, this thing sometimes happen to women. They may not really believe it is true when a man loves them"

I hear about these tests people do on each other to learn if they are serious or not.  She knows my heart.  She did make a strange comment. " you are handsome man, you must have a lot of women"  I told her no,  I don't.  I am very careful about who I date.  I was married 22 years and never cheated.  She had a hard time believing this. But its true. 

[Jumper]

advice..

While you may feel hurt now,

instantly stop the bleeding, and move on.

There is no good to come from playing more adolecent games with a woman,
acting immature ,and pseudo-interested..
or VERY intentionmally sending you mixed signals,
her real age is irrevevent ,she is acting 16.

There is no good dwelling on wether she is testing you..
and there is no good to come from dwelling  on things she did last week or last month.

this type wil only lead to wasting time towards more heartbrea kor trouble.
the more contact, simply the longer it drags  on,
and the more of each others time you waste.

she said there is NO chemistry, take her at her word,
end contact with her ,
and look for someone TRULY interested in you.

when you find this person, you will not NEED  to guess at thier feelings,
you will have no doubt how they feel.

and recognize it easily by thier words ,actions ,and behaviour in every way
both large and small.

life is to short for wasting time with weird behaviour, or game players.

There are plenty of good women that would not play silly school girl games,
or play and toy with your emotions (a few weeks ago)


harsh?
 maybe,,but hey,
 you asked for advice...

The women you would be interested in,
would respect a man that did not waste time with foolishness.

[Jumper]

She does not want to go back to Siberia!   I feel bad for her.  She struggles so much in life.  She tells me she wants to find her equal but not a Russian man. She wants American guy.  So, maybe you are right?    Is it possible to stay friends?  Or just let her go?

all i can say is 


she was married *here* 5 years..
in another post you talk about one RW that was married 10 years *here*, then divorced

same girl? typo?
two different RW divorcees?

anyway she moved here (by her words) with a guy she met at a wedding and did not really know..

(come on! think man! why would she do that? the answer is obvious)

now they divorced..

she doesnt want to go back,
 struggles hard in life..

and

almost amazingly..

wants an american man..(wonder why?)

yes she could be sincere about it, but her own words of her past, show a pattern that would
make any sane person a bit uneasy..
add in her immature behaviour towards you ..

run forest RUN!

and I would perhaps not date recently divorced RW in the USA..
you seem to be repeating a scenerio with them??

i'd try a new tact!! 

just sayin'

[Mir]

Moya dorogaya Tanushka is from Siberia. She is very independant and strong yet she has a heart of pure gold and an innocense about her. She is 37 but looks much younger. There is a peace and calm about her that I can't explain. She is always happy and never has raised her voice. We rarely disagree on anything and never had a fight. We are both very diplomatic.   I am so proud of her!!  I admire her for so many reasons.  She is taking an English class tonight at the local college and will start the RN program soon so she can be a nurse and have a great job.  This is a huge challenge for her and she loves it!  She is never to proud to ask for help.  Imagine that.

 She is very nervous driving on freeways here in California (aren't we all?) where people are overly aggressvie but she is getting better all the time.  She is doing well in school.  she got her phlebotomy certificate so she can work while going to nursing school but had to take the State exam over again because of the tricky questions.  I explained that sometimes there are two correct answers, you have to choose the best of those two.  I have been acting as a tutor to help with the meaning of new words and how to use them properly in a sentance.  She loves to learn!  It keeps life fun and gives us something constructive to do together. 

Above is your second post here, made on the 18th of October. Reading it looks as you are in a happy,secure and committed relationship. Now you tell us that for the last 3 weeks there has hardly been any contact with her.
It sounds rather strange to me.

[I/O]

She says you are a good friend, such a nice man,   I don't want to loose your friendship.

My suggestion? P!ss her off and get your sch!t together because it is never gunna happen with this doll. This is the classic old line, don't want you but want to be friends. Translated from womanish means, I have someone else or am looking for someone but would like to keep you there on the side as a possible fall back position.

She doesn't want to go back to Siberia? Load of schit IMO. My wife's family have equally as good if not better lifestyle in many ways in Siberia as I do here and I don't exactly live in a trailer park as it were, nor do I live poor. This is just a sucker line to keep you on a string in case you are needed somewhere along the line.

My tip is that even if you turned her thinking enough to get hitched with you, it would last 2-5 years max and that might even be stretching it a bit. If you wait long enough you might just get fitted with the mule suit, but if you were just a touch smart, IMO you'd give her the short shift quick and lively. In case you didn't notice, I have no patience with mamby pamby play the game of love women and this one IMO is a classic.

Move on....!!!

I/O

[Bruce]

Great advice above from AJ and IO.  Now its three strikes in a row for you ie. NEXT!   By the way run, don't walk.

[wiz]

Move on man..... don't waste your time. I did and paid very high price for it.
Go out have fun and forget her...... and soon you will find the right one for you.

You were/are the classical case of Stop gap. She divorced her Russian husband, used you in between till she found a "Better bigger deal", wants to keep you as a fall back, like people said, and now she pass you on to her friend to do the same.

My story is here in the experienced section. It is all there under "The Dilemma" for you to read, How NOT to date a Russian woman or any other woman for that matter!

When you find the right woman for you I can assure you you know it!
Now I have found the right one and I am absolutely happy with our relationship.

Listen to AJ, I/O etc......they told me the same early in my relationship, I did not listen to them..... and I had a dissastrous and nightmare relationship for a year.

[Kuna]

Mishenka,

As harsh as the comments above might feel right now... they are right.

I won't comment on the precise content of your posts right now because what you post will be coming from a broken heart and a confused head.

Most importantly is the central facts that start with:

She told you she doesn't feel the chemistry and there is no future.

That hurts...  but it's fact.  Any thoughts you have that she may be testing you or playing a game are simply thoughts that come from the hurt and the confusion...  It's over...  harsh...  but over.

The most important thing to remember is this...  YOU know there are great women out there and YOU can  choose who you meet and when.  Her offering her friend etc is all BS to my mind because it almost puts you in a child-like position and doesn't all YOU to make your own decisions.  This is what I find most offensive.

So...  you'll now have to ride out the pain and the best way to do that is break off ALL contact with her.  Don't make a mistake and drag out the pain like some people do. Have the courage and TAKE THE POWER by letting go now AND FOREVER.  You'll find your heart heals MUCH more quickly that way... but it is difficult.

Once you feel like you're ready again THEN you can make decisions and who, where, when and why.

You should count yourself lucky you didn't get too heavily involved with this woman and THANK THE BIG GUY you didn't marry her.  This is difficult BUT IT IS BEST... for now!

All the best to you,

Kuna

[wiz]

I am tottally confused after reading this!

Posted by you at 6.04 GMT.....just looked the time on this thread and is 8.02 GMT.

I wonder what happened in between?

Zemjka,

Rule of thumb from family councillors for any divorced couple is to take at least 1 year of being single for each 5 years of marriage.   2 years to heal for 10 years of marriage, etc.  This depends on many factors.  I dated my last Russian girl friend for 6 months.  She was married 10 years in America, then divorced,  she took the last 2 years to heal but still was not ready for new relationship. We often forget that divorced parents will always have to see each other because of child custody visitation,  this brings back many issues from the failed marriage.  Parents fight for years arguing about how to raise their children after divorce.  Many times I was stuck in the middle of heated discussions between the parents and kids. I was the new man around the house,  so the girls were very interested in me and they would not want to go to their dad's so I had to stay away until they were taken to his house.  We would be on a dinner date and this guy would call and cause problems etc. 

My advice is the same as all the men here.  Make sure both partners are fully healed and ready to take on the responsibility of a new marriage. Especially where children are involved.  Also make sure the children will accept such a relationship. They have rights too.

Misha

 :selfharm:

[USCFAN]

While you may feel hurt now,

instantly stop the bleeding, and move on.

There is no good to come from playing more adolecent games with a woman,
acting immature ,and pseudo-interested.. or VERY intentionmally sending you mixed signals, her real age is irrevevent ,she is acting 16.

There is no good dwelling on wether she is testing you..
and there is no good to come from dwelling  on things she did last week or last month.

this type wil only lead to wasting time towards more heartbrea kor trouble. the more contact, simply the longer it drags  on, and the more of each others time you waste.

she said there is NO chemistry, take her at her word, end contact with her, and look for someone TRULY interested in you.

when you find this person, you will not NEED  to guess at thier feelings,
you will have no doubt how they feel. and recognize it easily by thier words ,actions ,and behaviour in every way both large and small.

life is to short for wasting time with weird behaviour, or game players.
There are plenty of good women that would not play silly school girl games,
or play and toy with your emotions (a few weeks ago)

I think A.J. 'nailed' it ... in fact ... I'm going to use some of this advice myself for my 'situation' ...

Good Luck Mishenka !

[KenC]

Michael,
Women!  Can't live with them and you can't kill em.  Oops I mean, can't live without them.  Who the hell knows what is going on in her head?  She probably doesn't have a clue either.  But one thing is clear (crystal clear) she doesn't want you.  Swallow hard and move on.  Everything else she said after the not wanting you part is all pity.  Never ever try to talk a woman into changing her mind in order to stay with her.  Even if you succeed, you are only short changing yourself from being with a woman that truly wants you.

Move on.  Forget about her.  Do not perform your mini concert.  What is that? An audition for the girlfriend?  Buck up dude, and move on it is over.
KenC

[Gator]

A significant percentage of RW can be high maintenance - not just your money, but your time and your emotions.  The emotional confusion and roller coaster is the worst of the three.  No woman is worth such torture (for a weekend is okay  ). 

Yes, you now have the pain of your broken dreams.   But think about all the future anguish you have avoided.  It will not be long before you are smiling again, probably with your next erection.   

[Misha]

Finally after endless days of waiting, Tatiana finally wrote me an email and then called to talk things over for 45 minutes.  The email said,  "My cuddle bear, I'm sorry I just don't feel any chemistry anymore and I can't be in relationship where there is no chemistry"   Thank you for all the wonderful songs you wrote me, nice dates and everything you do for me. You make me so happy.  Your tanushka.

She confuses me. She wants to still date but not get to serious.  She wants to keep looking for the perfect man who she "clicks" with. So I guess my "click" wasn't a big enough fire works for her.   

Any suggestions?  Anyone?

Misha

Ouch! That really, really, really hurts! I agree with what has been said. I would even add another possibility: perhaps she found someone else. All the signs are there: you did not here from her in 3 weeks (i.e. time she was spending with someone else), all of a sudden she calls you and says that she does not feel the chemistry (i.e. she found it with someone else) and tells you that she wants to look for the perfect man (more than likely she already has a candidate), and then she wants to keep you as a friend (in case it does not work out with the other guy).

In any case, I would certainly suggest cutting your losses and moving on. Let her find chemistry, while you find another woman that will truly  love and respect you.

 

[William3rd]

I agree with Gaubaud and the similar posts-

That is a goodbye post. Nothing to be confused about. You cant argue chemistry issues.

You are #2 for this one no matter what you do.

Move on, dont look back, and dont accept being second best.

There will be a woman out there for you that you will be #1 for and that is who you should be looking for.

[Mishenka]

Hi guys,, thanks for all your advice.  A quick answer to Wiz on when this all took place,  between the 2 posts you speak of at 6PM and 8 PM,, Tatiana called and we had a long conversation.  After that it went to emails.  She says she only came to this conclusion right before she called me. This I can't accept. She was silent since the Sunday before the fires.. a week. 6-7 days went by with not one word from her.  During a huge crisis in San Diego, well known through out the world, and I was concerned about her saftey she doesnt call?  RED FLAG.  This is too strange, especially when all schools were shut down. She had no classes. So she had spare time. Her excuse,  the fire dept told all of us to stay off cell phones.

We had become very close, and she valued our relationship,  now it is obvious to me, I fell in love with her and she didn't with me.   She calls us "close friends"  and not lovers.   I understand her completely.  I was married 22 years, my wife left me with the kids and took off.   6 years later she claims to still love me and wants me back,  But I have no feelings towards my ex wife.  They are dead, nothing, no chemistry.   Tatiana is being honest, if there is nothing there, I accept it.  But her actions were that of a whole lot of chemistry,, she was VERY affectionate with me all the time we spent together.


I told her not to give Lenochka my phone number that I need time to heal.  I don't like being passed off to someone else and I have no clue why she even offered this.  This is acting like Jr High school  student  she is 37.   She still wants to get to gether with me as friends and I'm OK with one last meeting but thats it.   I'm not as hurt as you all think. I'm not angry, I am frustrated.   I just want to understand Russian Women and their culture.  I see all of this as insecurity on her part, coming from past experiences and the result is fear. Just like most of us.  

The woman leaves her home, with total trust in a man to take care of her. She doesn't speak the language, can not work to have her own money, it takes time to settle in and deal with all the huge changes.  She says her Ex Russian husband was a control freak, abusive and would not speak English in the house so she couldn't learn.  So she had a lot going against her.  Finally she gets a job, a car, goes to English class and Files for divorce. 1 year has passed,  she says she is ready for a new man.  I disagree.  She is not ready. I told her to take time,  heal your heart. do not date anyone.  it is not chemistry she is after it is fear ruling her heart.  Until she can overcome this fear, no relationship will work.  

I won't use the links to Russian dating sites.  I only date women I meet face to face and can observe with my own eyes.   She still tried to get me to jump right into another relationship. I said no!  I'm not who you think I am.  I don't date women just to have something to do.  I turned down a lot of dates with nice local ladies in the last 2 months, who continue to call or write emails.  I don't need a dating service.  

I did notice last night she has removed her profiles from Yahoo and from the link sites she gave me.

Bolshoi Spacibo vsem!

Misha

[Misha]

She says her Ex Russian husband was a control freak, abusive and would not speak English in the house so she couldn't learn.  So she had a lot going against her.  Finally she gets a job, a car, goes to English class and Files for divorce.

Always be wary of the "he said/she said" after a divorce. It is rare when somebody will say "yes, I was the complete loser and everything was my fault."

Her husband was Russian. What language did she expect him to speak at home? It is normal that he would speak to her in Russian and that he would expect her to go to English class to learn English and eventually find a job. Yes, she had a lot going against her, but no more than the average immigrant that must learn a new language and find a job.

This may be too early to ask, but could it be that you are seeing the woman that you want to see, instead of the woman that she really is?

[Gator]

I fell in love with her and she didn't with me.

You are not alone.  An unconfirmed survey of RW/AM marriages reported:

-  60% of the women did not love their husbands when they married.

-  99% of the men 'loved' their wives when they married.

I'm OK with one last meeting but thats it. 

Don’t even think about it.  You will recover quicker if you do not meet.  Hit the “delete” button (impossible, but try)

I won't use the links to Russian dating sites.  I only date women I meet face to face and can observe with my own eyes.

 

Are you not limiting yourself to RW/UW who have divorced their American husbands.  I do not hear nice things about such RW/UW.  For sure, a man may be a control freak and abusive, but why did she marry such a man.  For sure she did not love him and her intentions were not love.

Yesterday a local man told me of his experience in dating a beautiful UW (beauty contest winner) who married an AM and quickly divorced him.  He came to love her fairly soon, yet it slowly died as she kept looking for someone else, something else, and was never happy.  As WilliamGo would say, some of these RW/UW have impaired souls.  Beware!  You can never please them, and some need therapy, something they would never admit nor do.

[Mishenka]

KenC,

The mini concert idea with belly dancing was just damage control on her part. We had talked about this early in our relationship, so it was more a personal thing between us. She was trying to let me down easy by making offers of dating Lena, and singing these songs I wrote her,to lighten things up.   Lena by the way, is too much like my past GF Nadya,  and I won't date her.  She the negative personality traits that I saw in Nadya.  I know the look she was giving me across the table. I don't like when women flirt with me right in front of my girl.   I know I had posted before that our Lilia reminds me a lot of Nadya, but she has all Nadya's best virtues.  Huge difference. Night and day. No, I won't make a list.   

Also,, looking on the calendar,, Mir,,
it has been two weeks.  not three.  It has been 6 days since we talked on the phone, Sunday before the fires.  During the fires,, her reason for not calling was to obey the firefighters request to stay off cell phones.  So I sit and worry for a week about her safety!!! There is no excuse for this one in my book.
Anyway,, whats over is over. now we move on.  Still, I just want to understand these women and their culture. I'm learning fast.   I have spent time in Russia with beautiful women who were so sweet and kind.  I expected them to all be that way like my interpreter Lana,, from Zaporozhye Ukraine,, So precious so caring and sweet.  anyway,, my turn will come someday.

[Misha]

KenC,

Anyway,, whats over is over. now we move on.  Still, I just want to understand these women and their culture. I'm learning fast.   I have spent time in Russia with beautiful women who were so sweet and kind.  I expected them to all be that way like my interpreter Lana,, from Zaporozhye Ukraine,, So precious so caring and sweet.  anyway,, my turn will come someday.

Define spending time. An evening? A date? I am not saying that there are not a lot of great Russian women, but there are many that are less than great. Many of the not-so-great-ones will make you think that they are the sweetest and kindest women on this planet. It takes time to really know a woman. The mistake most men make: they fall in madly in love before they truly know the woman and they fall in love with the illusion instead of the reality.

[OhioGuyRob]

FWIW,

My wife and I just celebrated our 2nd anniversary.  I met Natalya in August of 2004.  Made SEVERAL trips to Odessa before she came to stay for the "90 day fiancee visa stay"

Rule #1 as a man when dating any woman.   REALITY.  See things as they ARE not what you wish they were.  99% of the time 99% of us men fail to follow this rule.  Reality is what she does.  You can't count on what she says but you can always trust what she does or doesn't do.

Rule #2  If she says there is no chemistry Then for Pete's sake, BELIEVE HER.


The challenges you face when marrying outside your culture are tough.  Thing's prior to marriage have GOT to be "perfect"  if they aren't then your chances of making it go down dramatically.   

YOU CAN DO NOTHING TO MAKE SOMEONE ELSE FEEL DIFFERENTLY.   Time to move on

[BillyB]

Tatiana called and we had a long conversation.  After that it went to emails.  She says she only came to this conclusion right before she called me. This I can't accept.

She had planned this with her friend way before the call since the friend was all for going out with you. Women can discard men quickly when they lose interest. You too should move on and don't try to marry a woman that's not in love with you. No amount of love songs or other displays of love is not going to change the fact.

Misha, you've had many posts here speaking about the abuse these RW go through and I have no doubt that you're totally against abuse and sympathetic to all women who have a story to tell. Unfortunately the fact men may be aggressive does not significantly factor against for many women when they choose their mate. Many women are attracted to bad tough boys and based on that, it encourages the bad boy behavior among men to attract those women.  Many women don't think the aggresive behavior of these men will be applied to them when they marry those bad boys. Mnay are wrong.

Your lady has given 5 years of her life to her abusive ex husband but now she finds a nice guy, you, yet she won't give you more than 11 weeks. Actually 9 weeks since she went silent on you for 2. What a woman wants is a real man and although she may have enjoyed all those love songs and poems you sent and sang for her, she may have thought you to be on the immature side and infatuated with her which is a turn off for many women. Who knows? What I do know if you always reassure a RW that you love her, you are cheapening the words. They want to see action not words. Action as not in giving presents and gifts but action as in taking care of business at work and at home and being responsible.

Good luck on the next one Misha.