A year ago this would have surprised me.

[HiTech]

I am speaking to my lady today, she tells me how a man was sending her 11 congratulation flowers for her getting engaged.  Agency offerers her money or the flowers. They go to the flower stand and take pictures holding rented flowers for $1 and she pockets $10.

Man is happy with photo.
Girl is happy with money.

Life in the Ukraine.

Dale

[Shadow]

You can call it practical, or you can call it a warning. Up to you to decide.

[HiTech]

You can call it practical, or you can call it a warning. Up to you to decide.

I no longer call it either or even try to evaluate it, I just call it with my catch all phrase.

"Ukrainian Tradition"

[Shadow]

I no longer call it either or even try to evaluate it, I just call it with my catch all phrase.

"Ukrainian Tradition"

I have been discussing with Helen too long 
It is just that when I see such a thing that seems to be an innocent incident, I look at it from a different perspective. Your lady was telling some guy that she was engaged (how long ago did this take place for her to write him now ?) and he reacted by congratulating her. Instead of appreciating the thought by accepting the flowers, she posed a picture to 'put noodles on his ears' and cashed the money.
As a cynical reader (see my Helen remark) I see someone who is faking being happy about the thought while thinking of the cash in her pocket. This worries me, especially if this is a common thing. I am sure that being your fiancee the $10 is not an amount she needs for survival.
I might be making an elephant out of a molehill here, this is why my first post was very short. And I hope that I have not offended you with the explanation.

[Serebro]

I am speaking to my lady today, she tells me how a man was sending her 11 congratulation flowers for her getting engaged.  Agency offerers her money or the flowers. They go to the flower stand and take pictures holding rented flowers for $1 and she pockets $10.

Man is happy with photo.
Girl is happy with money.
Life in the Ukraine.

Dale

Your lady sounds like an aexample of honesty to me.
Why didn't she send him the photo of her holding banknotes or the photo in a shopping mall with her spending money for the flowers?!

[Serebro]

I no longer call it either or even try to evaluate it, I just call it with my catch all phrase.

"Ukrainian Tradition"

It looks like FSU is full of traditions I have never heard of...
Ask your lady for more traditions so we can warn the other guys to choose the most expensive things to send as they will be sold anyway

[wxman]

I would find it pretty rude to pull a stunt like that, much less trust a woman who would partake in such a scam. Man is happy because he thinks the woman kept the flowers and appreciated the gesture. Obviously the meaning of the gesture has no meaning, and money has greater meaning. Cold, very cold indeed.   

[rose]

Ok, I totally agree with you on this. But what about the American tradition to return unwanted presents after the Christmas. And how many of us pretended that they are very happy to the present which in the best case scenario will end up somewhere in the deep corner of the garage?
I believe it's almost the same. We try to be polite, girls try to be polite.

I don't justify this Ukranian tradition, just pointing out that there is one very similar here.

[Serebro]

Ok, I totally agree with you on this. But what about the American tradition to return unwanted presents after the Christmas. And how many of us pretended that they are very happy to the present which in the best case scenario will end up somewhere in the deep corner of the garage?
I believe it's almost the same. We try to be polite, girls try to be polite.

I don't justify this Ukranian tradition, just pointing out that there is one very similar here.

It's interesting to hear that from the person with a flower name;)
But the case you are speaking about is a little different-the flower seems to be the most innocent and romantic present, it's not even a presnt, but just a kind of a compliment, or a hug or a kiss.

In other words it's like you prefer a couple of dollars from your mother instead of being kissed by her

[wxman]

Ok, I totally agree with you on this. But what about the American tradition to return unwanted presents after the Christmas. And how many of us pretended that they are very happy to the present which in the best case scenario will end up somewhere in the deep corner of the garage?
I believe it's almost the same. We try to be polite, girls try to be polite.

I don't justify this Ukranian tradition, just pointing out that there is one very similar here.

I consider a tradition as something that brings back fond memories or something you cherish. Returning unwanted gifts or taking cash instead of flowers is just rude, whether it be American or Ukrainian. Have we become a society that no longer values the kindness in the thought, and instead cherishes the value of the item in cash? I really hope not.   

[rose]

Maybe I wrote not clear enough?

I don't understand how people can criticize others for doing something while they do practically the same. I do not try to justify Ukrainian girls, I definitely would prefer flowers, but I wouldn't return a present, too.

[wxman]

Maybe I wrote not clear enough?

I don't understand how people can criticize others for doing something while they do practically the same. I do not try to justify Ukrainian girls, I definitely would prefer flowers, but I wouldn't return a present, too.

This thread was opened for discussion. Sometimes honest criticism is good. I believe as you do. I would never return a gift or flowers. The kindness of the thought and act has tremendous meaning to me. Returning the gift or exchanging for cash would be like slapping the person in the face.   

[Serebro]

Maybe I wrote not clear enough?

I don't understand how people can criticize others for doing something while they do practically the same. I do not try to justify Ukrainian girls, I definitely would prefer flowers, but I wouldn't return a present, too.

No, you didn't write clear enough.
Why do you think that people who replied do the same things in Ukraine or in the USA.
I live in Russia and it's not a tradition here to give the presents to shops to earn some cash or exchange roses for money or set prices for every letter you write ....
maybe it's different in the country where Tolstoy and Dostoevsky  lived and wrote...but i just feel to post as i don't do the same things and I have high moral values.It's fine with me

[rose]

You know, Serebro, I can't quite understand your point. Maybe if you write in Russian I'll understand you better.
I only have feeling that for some reason you probably decided that I was writing you personally in this thread. That's why you took such offensive position. Anyways, write me in Russian, maybe it'll help.

[Mir]

You can argue one way or the other about the ethical/moral justification of such acts but to call this a specific tradition of Ukraine or any other country (except in jest) is pure nonsense and slander to the name of that country.
This is an example of a soft scam, and scamers exist in all FSU countries.

 

[Nando]

I am with Shawow in this one

How can you trust your lady isn't doing the same with you?

Sorry it is what I think

[Sort]

What wheel barrel did you fall of from????????
Either you are very much in love with this "woman" or you are one of the most STUPID  there is.
Have you met this "woman" in person?
It's your money m8 but don't complain later when she scam your ass of.

[Kuna]

I am speaking to my lady today, she tells me how a man was sending her 11 congratulation flowers for her getting engaged.  Agency offerers her money or the flowers. They go to the flower stand and take pictures holding rented flowers for $1 and she pockets $10.

Man is happy with photo.
Girl is happy with money.

Life in the Ukraine.

Dale

Dale,

I don't understand the original post....  DO I understand that you're engaged to a woman and someone sent her flowers to congratulate her on her engagement?

I thought you were restarting your search not at the point of engagement?

If you were now engaged to a woman wouldn't you have spent enough time with her for her to cut all contact with other men by now?

If you are engaged and she is still in contact with other wouldn't there be more than two choices when they send her gifts???  (Accept the gift/Swap it for money/Politely decline because accepting a gift in such circumstances would be inapprorpiate)???

It doesn't make much sense to me... but if it is happening as you seem to say it was happening I think you need an immediate and serious rethink!


I also agree with mir... I think you probably made the original post thinking it would be funny but attributing one woman's (and her agenices) scamming behaviour as "Traditional in Ukraine" is highly insulting and inaccurate.

If you think such things about Ukraine I'd suggest you spend more time with real people there (not first dates, guides, agencies, etc) and come to appreciate the wonderful character of the people.

Sure... there are problems there but it's arrogant in the extreme to pass this off as "tradition".

Sorry if I misunderstood your original post and you're not engaged.  No apology for the kick in the pants for the insinuation that tradition makes all Ukrainians dishonest scammers!

[Serebro]

Well, let's look at it differently.

You know there's a category of men(but most of them are russian men, rich russian men, i mean)who simply like to have great time with beautiful women and they are ready to pay for it.
Moral values aren't that important to them, maybe hiTech is one of them, he has his own criterias and he simply likes to be one of that girl's men.
Remember USCFAn's thread where he put physical beauty as the main diference between RW and AM he has met and it was the main reason of his search.

[HiTech]

The "Ukrainian Tradition" is a joke.

Accepting the flowers is not a problem because he sent the flowers after she sent him a letter that she had gotten engaged, hence congratulation flowers.

Kuna if you believe this is not fairly normal for agencies you do not know the agencies well enough. Of the 2 agencies I worked with, everyone here would consider some of the best. One did the flowers, the other was writing letters for girls.

Did she make the same choice as most people would make in the west. No she did not. But as my statement said, this type of behavior when every penny counts for a person I no longer view as a major red flag.

Dale

[Serebro]

Accepting the flowers is not a problem because he sent the flowers after she sent him a letter that she had gotten engaged, hence congratulation flowers.

Kuna if you believe this is not fairly normal for agencies you do not know the agencies well enough. Of the 2 agencies I worked with, everyone here would consider some of the best. One did the flowers, the other was writing letters for girls.

 But as my statement said, this type of behavior when every penny counts for a person I no longer view as a major red flag.

Ok, the situation is getting clear.
Have you met your girl through the agency that wrote letters for your girl.
and another question-about her counting every penny after being engaged to you... it looks like she is starving. How long do you know your girl, when were you engaged and have you sent money to her?!

[Kuna]

The "Ukrainian Tradition" is a joke.

Accepting the flowers is not a problem because he sent the flowers after she sent him a letter that she had gotten engaged, hence congratulation flowers.

Kuna if you believe this is not fairly normal for agencies you do not know the agencies well enough. Of the 2 agencies I worked with, everyone here would consider some of the best. One did the flowers, the other was writing letters for girls.

Did she make the same choice as most people would make in the west. No she did not. But as my statement said, this type of behavior when every penny counts for a person I no longer view as a major red flag.

Dale

Dale,

1. I believe you're genuine in your search and one of the "good guys"...  so I'd suggest you think very carefully about "jokes" in future.  While it might have seemed quirky to say it at times future "quirkiness" might end up with you sleeping on the couch.

2. Congratulations flowers? Strange... but it takes all sorts.  Still makes me wonder about the gap between you meeting her and building a relaitonship with her to the point where she "disengages" from communication with other men. Again... it takes all sorts I suppose.

3. I don't know agencies as well as you (didn't use one... I went the "direct route")  ... but if you're insinuating that the agencies being recommendd in here are dishonest I would suggest you speak up quickly and name them.  If you don't it'll now cast a shadow over any agency recommended in here and if you have evidence of one being dishonest you should name them for the benefit of the RWD community.

So... who are the dishonest ones?

4. Her decision would be a BIG red flag for me.  These girls are not starving....  They were surviving in a lifestyle they designed well before we started writing to them.  If they earn a low income they adjust their lives to suit the income.  They live with family and avoid doing expensive things.  They have nice clothes because they look after their possessions.  They don't own cars but that's the norm for single women in FSU. 

If you think your lady was so desperate for money that she needed to take it rather than accept the "Congratulatory flowers" you see things very differently to me.  Some would also say that if your lady was so desperate for money AFTER your engagement you should have been sending her some money to put food on the table.  I didn't send regular "payments" to my fiance but rather sent a few transfers to cover extraordinary costs (visa, travel, one holiday, etc).

5. Serebro makes some good points....

Best of luck!

Kuna

[HiTech]

Kuna: First I did not open my relationship for discussion.

And my point still stands, when I began this endeavor something like taking money instead of the flowers would have surprised me. It no longer does.

HiTech

[Mir]

Did she make the same choice as most people would make in the west. No she did not. But as my statement said, this type of behavior when every penny counts for a person I no longer view as a major red flag.

[/b]

Dio ci salvi dal povero arricchito e dal ricco impoverito

[SANDRO43]

I would never return a gift or flowers.

Very impractical, either, since they exhibit that deplorable tendency to wilt .

BTW, for those not possessing Mir's laudable command of Italian: "God save us from the enriched poor, and the impoverished rich" .