Possible Disaster- Please Help!

[ironcat]

Well, this takes the $#@^&* cake. Less than a week for my WOVO. All along, Tanya has been telling me that we will stay at her flat ( a large one in Sumy). Now, the last minute changes, and this has basically caused me to cancel the whole damn thing. She writes me yesterday with her prices for :1) Hotels in Kiev - at $500-800 a night and a resort that she wants us to stay in for about $400 a night
And- she wants to stay in a separate room! I wrote back with the expected response-"Are you kidding?" And she wrote me back in a sarcastic way that she was very surprised that I was making such a big deal about spending a few thousand dollars for the week or so I was there...." WTF? So, today, I am writing her that I am not coming  ( this time) ( My ticket can be exchanged -for a fee- up to one year down the road). I am going to have to go the Agency route, but Ill take my time and write a few different women. So,what do you guys think. Help? I trust your opinions and  right now......feel like a DAMN FOOL!!!!!!

[timothe]

Well, you can try to book the hotel or apartment yourself.  There are many nice apartments in Kiev that will cost you less than $100 per night.  But then you still have the issue of dealing with this woman, which I think you probably don't want to do. 

Knowing what I know, I wouldn't cancel your ticket.  I would find some agency support in Kiev or maybe contact Jack at First Dream to arrange meetings in Kiev or other cities.  I say that because you will be both surprised and pleased at the number of women who will likely be interested in you once you get your boots on the ground. 

I didn't use an agency myself, so perhaps others can help you with that part of it. 

If you decided to go through with your trip, figure on $80 to $120 a day for the room and about $100 to $200 per day for expenses such as restaurants, dates, translator, etc.  (although you could probably do it cheaper)

The other option would be to exchange the ticket for one in the spring, when it's warmer.  That will give you time to do some letter writing before you go.  Letter writing is not the be all and end all, though and you can accomplish what you have originally set out to do by simply meeting women when you get there.

[Jazzyclassy]

Well I think you just met a wrong person, she needs somebody like Hugh Hefner I do not know how his last name is spelled. It is just shows that you did not communicate enough to understand what each of you wishes from such relations. She might be a scammer she might be not, just  money issue is always a very important thing, especially when she, never seen you before, asks you to spend so much money on you being on some resort including pavement for her? that is already a huge red flag.

I never asked my husband to spend money on accommodation, moreover he stayed at my place and never spend a penny on it and only bought food like once or twice plus we always gathered money from our both wallets so he never actually paid alone for food , so I think you need to seriously consider if the girl is really in to you or just wants money and nice fun time, with you spending the whole fortune on her
About the agencies of course many people here will advise you several, but I think you can still try and do it on your own , without any help, just need to be more prominent and careful!

[2tallbill]

Ironcat, I would forget about Tanya and take the trip anyway. You can find a nice apartment (don't stay in a hotel)
for 60-100 per day in Kiev (PM me if you need a contact for this). You can meet someone nice and have a nice vacation.

You say you feel like a fool, I don't see it that way. You didn't agree to her scam (she is definitely a scammer no question about it at all),
although in the future I would be recommend that you should not agree to stay in a woman's flat that you have never met in person (for a
multitude of reasons).


Udachi
Good luck



Bill

[ScottinCrimea]

Wow, Ironcat, sorry to hear about that.  I guess the good thing is that it happened before you got there so you still had a few options.  No reason to feel like a fool, though.  Now if you had agreed to her BS demands like many would, then you could proudly carry the title.  I think it is a little more unusual for a woman her age to pull something like this than someone, say, in their 20's.  I think you were a smart man to not get so emotionally invested as to ignore such foolishness on her part (Though I know that it still has to hurt).

Maybe, for the benefit of others, you could think back and see if there were any small hints that she would pull this that you might have overlooked.

Don't give up.  You've got the ticket, just find the best time to use it and go find a woman who really cares for you and not your wallet.

[groovlstk]

And she wrote me back in a sarcastic way that she was very surprised that I was making such a big deal about spending a few thousand dollars for the week or so I was there...." WTF?

There are plenty of FSU women like this, they simply think you're an American and even if you don't own a yacht or Bentley, you're undoubtedly "rich." And if you're not willing to spend your bankroll on her she assumes you're greedy.

I'd guess she's not a scammer but someone with totally unrealistic expectations, which may have been cultivated by foolish western guys who preceded you.

Either way, drop her like a hot potato. Like others have written, why cancel your trip? Make the best of it, meet other women, tour Kiev, and get to know the lay of the land. A week in the field is more valuable than reading 100 trip reports or writing 100 women.

[Christian]

Well, this takes the $#@^&* cake. Less than a week for my WOVO. All along, Tanya has been telling me that we will stay at her flat ( a large one in Sumy). Now, the last minute changes, and this has basically caused me to cancel the whole damn thing. She writes me yesterday with her prices for :1) Hotels in Kiev - at $500-800 a night and a resort that she wants us to stay in for about $400 a night
And- she wants to stay in a separate room! I wrote back with the expected response-"Are you kidding?" And she wrote me back in a sarcastic way that she was very surprised that I was making such a big deal about spending a few thousand dollars for the week or so I was there...." WTF? So, today, I am writing her that I am not coming  ( this time) ( My ticket can be exchanged -for a fee- up to one year down the road). I am going to have to go the Agency route, but Ill take my time and write a few different women. So,what do you guys think. Help? I trust your opinions and  right now......feel like a DAMN FOOL!!!!!!

A spendthrift will sink a marriage as fast an adulterous one.  Paris may want his Helen and launch a thousand ships, but this poor Tanya just sunk her own ship.

Christian

 

[SANDRO43]

Paris may want his Helen and launch a thousand ships

According to Homer's Iliad (Book 2, "Catalogue of Ships"), it was Agamemnon, king of Mycenae and brother of Helen's cuckolded husband Menelaus, king of Sparta, who "launched" the 1,186 ships of his Achaean coalition.
Troy is not known to have ever possessed a fleet of such proportions. Get your historical analogies straight .

[acrzybear]

Sandro

Why are you confusing the issue with facts? 

[BillyB]

Well, this takes the $#@^&* cake. Less than a week for my WOVO. All along, Tanya has been telling me that we will stay at her flat ( a large one in Sumy). Now, the last minute changes, and this has basically caused me to cancel the whole damn thing. She writes me yesterday with her prices for :1) Hotels in Kiev - at $500-800 a night and a resort that she wants us to stay in for about $400 a night
And- she wants to stay in a separate room! I wrote back with the expected response-"Are you kidding?" And she wrote me back in a sarcastic way that she was very surprised that I was making such a big deal about spending a few thousand dollars for the week or so I was there...." WTF? So, today, I am writing her that I am not coming  ( this time) ( My ticket can be exchanged -for a fee- up to one year down the road). I am going to have to go the Agency route, but Ill take my time and write a few different women. So,what do you guys think. Help? I trust your opinions and  right now......feel like a DAMN FOOL!!!!!!

Ironcat, I read over some of your posts here and you knew she wanted to meet in a neutral place first and you called her smart for wanting that. That is a red flag.

She mentioned in correspondence that she loves you. That is a red flag.

And of course now she wants you to pay $400-$800 a night for accomodations. That is a red flag.

Could you have been overconfident? You've mentioned numerous times that you're a sales pro and you could sniff out bs'ers. Understand when your emotions get involved, you let your guard down and there's always someone out there that will take advantage of that and play you successfully. Surely you were in love and had her brawling over the phone with your romantic words as you've said happened earlier. Do not fall in love before meeting a RW and leave your emotions home.

I suspect Tanya will back off and play you some more by agreeing to meet you in a hotel/flat of your choice. If you don't arrive, how could she take you shopping for a fur coat, $400 shoes and to fancy restaurants?

[BC]

Of course for some, such accommodations may have been well 'within budget'..  I wonder what impressed her (or not expressed by ironcat) that such were realistic expectations..

Sure she was not mixing weekly with daily prices?

I'm tipping on no scam and misunderstandings.. at the most high expectations.

A spendthrift will sink a marriage as fast an adulterous one.  Paris may want his Helen and launch a thousand ships, but this poor Tanya just sunk her own ship.

hmm... what useless wisdom..

If one hasn't figured out her spending habits or sexual attitudes before marriage then shame on you - deal with it.. 

[BillyB]

I'm tipping on no scam and misunderstandings.

Ironcat was at a minimum misled.  With less than a week  before his trip, he was told they are staying at a large flat Tanya owns in the neutral location they'll be visiting. That will put added pressure on any man to proceed with ticket already in hand and wearing his heart on his sleeve. This new revelation of where she wants to stay was actually planned from the beginning IMO. Also she did respond to Ironcat's "Are you kidding?" with "Why are you making such a big deal about spending a few thousand dollars for the week?"

[BC]

Ironcat was at a minimum misled.

Yeah Billy, a mixed bag for sure..

[groovlstk]

Ironcat,

I hope you also learned from this that you should never, ever agree to stay in a woman's flat before you've met in person.

In addition to being an awkward imposition, you're in essence a hostage to this woman if things don't work out. Even if you do manage to escape you'll be scrambling to find accomodations with a suitcase in your hands, hardly the best use of your time there.

You've gotten a tough but valuable lesson in how beguiling these women can be. Learn from it and move on.

[SANDRO43]

Sandro Why are you confusing the issue with facts? 

Wise words, Bear, I must be a hopeless, un-romantic optimist .

[Photo Guy]

Yeah, looks like a lot of red flags. I agree with Groov about the flat.
I remember when I had lunch in a small quaint 'old Ukrainian' style
restaurant that had about 8 tables. I excused myself to go use
the restroom. Larisa and our interpreter were embarrassed,
thinking the restroom would not be up to my high
American standards. Ha. (It was okay, clean) I definitely got the impression
that these women thought we Americans were the Kennedys
or from the show, 'Dallas'.

Plan B:  You can walk from Independence Square to the office
of Kiev Connections. Bring a CD with a photo file of yourself.
Enjoy the city. Taste the culture. Speak to a stranger.
Have a 'terp escort you around town. Enjoy. Start to feel
comfortable there. There will be more trips in the future. Enjoy!
   

[acrzybear]

I must be a hopeless, un-romantic optimist .

I've been accused of the same thing a time or to 

[Turboguy]

Follow everyone's advice.   Go on your own.  Get a flat which should be under $ 100 a night.   Jack at first dreams has some nice ones.   If you need an interpreter I can put you in touch with a great one who is affordable and reliable.  (PG has used her too and would say the same)

Go visit some agencies and meet a lot of good girls and hopefully the right one but say away from the gal you planned to meet.

[Photo Guy]

Ray-
Yeah, I agree- Natalie is a very good 'terp and a nice person who can
show you around Kiev. She is also conscientious about costs.

Mark-
about frugality and spending:
remember that woman you were dating in Ukraine, who insisted on keeping
you from spending too much? I thought that quality was impressive.
(I honestly don't remember much else about her)

[Serebro]

Well, this takes the $#@^&* cake. Less than a week for my WOVO. All along, Tanya has been telling me that we will stay at her flat ( a large one in Sumy). Now, the last minute changes, and this has basically caused me to cancel the whole damn thing. She writes me yesterday with her prices for :1) Hotels in Kiev - at $500-800 a night and a resort that she wants us to stay in for about $400 a night
And- she wants to stay in a separate room! I wrote back with the expected response-"Are you kidding?"

ironcat, I can see nothing extraodinary here if it's the first visit...about the price of the hotels, would you like your girl to put you into  the cheapest hotel?!why not to tell her about that, she was probably afraid to hurt your feelings with offering a cheap hotel for you.


about the separate room in the hotel... are you going to meet for the first time in your life?! if yes, why are you so shocked about the separate rooms?! would you prefer to have a prostitute who would consider the idea of sharing a hotel room with the man she has never met before quite normal?!

if you can't allow that why did you make plans about going to some resort together for the first visit?!

it looks like you had some misunderstandings in your correspondance.... maybe you tried to impress her with something you have and she is sure that you are a rich prince on a white horse and she  can't understand what is wrong...
or maybe she is a model-looking high maintenance girl and you overesimated your abilities...

[I/O]

Pro dater who played the boy like a finely tuned instrument. The world, not only the FSU is riddled with her type and they are fed by men with unrealistic hopes. His mistake? Let himself be guided by unrealistic hope and came right in for it.

Ironcat: Throw your hat up man, you've dodged a bullet here. I support the arguement to go and as Groov says, a week on the ground in the east is worth a 100 trip reports, but I differ from the others in so far as I suggest you give the ladies a miss by and large if you were to go now as I suspect you are not in any state to think clearly about serious relationships right now. Time is your best weapon, use it wisely. It would not be a mistake to delay your trip.

It is not always a fool who is fooled. A good general knows when to retreat. If you have made the decision to give her a miss, then I think it is a wise one.

I/O 

[Photo Guy]

Sure, if his emotions are fried, it might be a good idea to
postpone the trip to next year. ..depends on a number
of variables, like his work schedule.

[Simoni]

Ironcat, you have received some good advice. 

Have nothing to do with a woman with such an attitude.

Instead, go see Kiev and meet the ladies.  You'll have a great time, and you might even meet someone less self-centered.

I'll PM you some good contacts in Kiev and some fun things to see and do.

Best wishes,

~Si

[ScottinCrimea]

serebro does make a good point about assuming that on the first visit you would be sharing a room.  Better to pay for two rooms and end up sharing one than to pay for one room and end up alone in it.

[ironcat]

Like I said I feel like a damn fool, or as our Aussie friends would say, a "bloody idiot"
I emailed her I am not coming , and surprise! No Response. Whew! I have to look at the positives here:

1) I made a great friend in bgreed and his wife Lena

2) I still have a ticket good for a year

3) I dodged a huge bullet ( or should I say Cruise Missile)

But hell, all along, she told me were were staying at her flat, and these changes were only done YESTERDAY. My emotions are fried and frankly going right now with no battle plan other than to plop my ass in an agency would not be in my best interest so, Ill lay low and start some correspondence again and lets see what happens. Thanks again guys, you were great!