Is this a good idea?

[Shadow]

Hi James,
First of all it is possible for a young girl to like the looks of a 39 year old, providing he looks good. As you have not ventured more than a look in the mirror, it is up to you to hold up in the looks department.
Women in bars and discos will pick you out as American at once, and the ones rubbing up to you might not be wife material.
Meeting though a respectable agency would be a better choice, providing you are ready.
The main problem seems to be your attitude. You should not forget that displaying such an attitude towards Russians will not get you anywhere. Leave it at home or stay at home.
Coming from a 41 year old prune who will marry a 34 year old babushka. 

[tim 360]

You guys are giving James Tee good advice but I'm afraid you are just wasting your time and good intentions.  He has received good advice before and scorned it.  He is from under the bridge.

Few years ago he did the same on the old PL Board when he was looking for a young hotsmokinkova "trophy wife".  And it seems he still is....Cheerio, tim360

[William3rd]

Good advice so far. I'll stick with the agencies. Any suggestions? and as for..."Men who say they look younger than they are usually are poor at seeing reality..." People can't believe I'm 39. Really. I pass for 29 easily. I'm just lucky, that's all. I just hope I don't get a lot of "advice" to date-women-my-own-age coming from dried up old prunes married to 25 year olds.

I cant tell whether this pedejo is a shill for unethical, scumbag agencies or another troll. . . .

The only positive agency mention was about First Dream and their tour. . .
Most comments about romance tours are highly negative without any disagreement.

Yet this guy claims that there is positive feed back.

The other combative statements lend more toward trollhood. . . .

It is appropriate to have a someone like James here on Turkey Day. . . . .

[Mir]

Looks like he has been searching for a few years while keeping his age frozen at 39 and looking 10 years younger then that
Unfortunately the girls don't agree with the delusion.
Still it looks we are wasting our breath since he has already left for the disco full of young hoties.
BTW you can check your age here:
http://www.realage.com/reg/regvar/st1.aspx?mod=LONGFORM

[catzenmouse]

Think our good buddy here is famous. Here's a couple of books written about him. One about his career and one about his adventures frolicking with teen age girls. I'm impressed! 

[carraig]

James, give the beach a miss if your thinking of going any time soon, its a bit nippy right now

[Globetrotter]

Maybe I missed something.  Didn't he say he is chased by little girls already?  So, why go to a different country, culture, and a language away if he already has the pool of women he's interested in right here?  Just wait a few years till they're out of high school, and boom, done!

Also, Lily is probably right in that teachers are not highly thought of over there, as teaching is a low paid "women's profession" given very little respect.  Sounds like James has his work cut out for him even if all of his ducks were in a row and he had buckets of cash!

Just the opinion of another old guy!

[Blues Fairy]

Doubtless.

Why, you don't believe that girls can be young, stupid, and decent at the same time?

[Mir]

Why, you don't believe that girls can be young, stupid, and decent at the same time?

Cause he has not been able to find these girls

[I/O]

Why, you don't believe that girls can be young, stupid, and decent at the same time?

BF: Quite possible, however when you add the "Daddy substitute" and other things from your original words, I suggest the likelihood of decency is greatly diminished.

I/O

[pk-uk]

James,

Haven't read any of this thread, and I'm sure there are many diverse opinions in there, but this worked for me.  My biggest trip was an 18 day tour of Ukraine.  What I did was this....

First of all I worked out the places I wanted to go and how much time I wanted to spend there. As I didn't want to spend much more than 3 days before moving on (except Crimea, which I wanted to explore for longer), I reckoned on five places - so made a shortlist of eight.  For travelling, I decided to use overnight train as it saved on a hotel and made good use of "dead" time.

I used a mixture of contact through agency, 'personals' and addresses from agencies. I wrote to around 80 girls using a mixture of snail-mail and e-mail for initial contact. Those I used e-mail for I got addresses quickly & wrote snail-mail also.  My hit rate on replies was around 65%.  I quickly whittled it down to what I considered the most promising 30 or so, at this point narrowing down to my five 'bases'.

I didn't exclude a girl on level of English.  I worked on the basis that if I was that keen on them I should make the effort.  For that reason, all my initial contact letters/e-mails were in Russian and English.  In a way, they were 'form' letters but I did individualise them as far as I could to the girl's profile.

I used an agency for translation, but only had any one paragraph translated once.  If it was to go in more than one letter I copied & pasted.  I also ensured that where interpreters were going to be necessary, they were in place.  Some girls brought their own (friends), I used two agencies and found a third interpreter through Google.

I booked the trip through a Travel Agency specialising in Ukraine travel.  I could have got lower prices by putting it all together piecemeal, no doubt, but I just gave them my 'requirements' and they sorted it all.

By the time I started the trip, about 10 weeks after first letter, I'd narrowed it down to 18.  In each place, I arranged initial meetings of 2 - 6 hours, mostly on the shorter side, but left a day at the end so that if any appealed I would spend a day with them - provide they wanted to spend it with me, of course.  I also left a week-end at the end in Kiev, so that if there were any I wanted to suss out a bit more I could invite expenses paid.

During the ten weeks prior to the trip, I struck up a good relationship with a small agency in Kharkiv, having contacted a couple of girls through them.  Unfortunately someone told me recently the guy had moved on, but, because my schedule might have gone AWOL, he took on the job of co-ordinating my visits where the second agency or interpreter wasn't involved - even though I never visited any of his girls in the end.

All in all the tour went fine. I visited some wonderful places, was invited into many homes and met some wonderful girls. No real problems except with one agency I wasn't dealing with insisting on setting up and charging for the meeting with one girl I had written to.  They only spoke French, Russian & Ukrainian and unfortunately I don't know how to swear in French, but I'm sure they understood "international" directives in respect of going forth.  My interpreter got the girl's phone number from the local telephone directory & arranged the meet.  Problem? No problem 

Like I said James, haven't read the thread (yet).  Nevertheless, I imagine there is an element of doubting your integrity and intentions, character assessment (usually negative) and anything fom sheer indignation to dollies flying out of prams if you dare to ignore advice.  My advice....

You know who you are and what you are looking for better than anyone on this forum and you don't have to explain yourself to anyone.  The above is what worked for me, there is no single way to do this - use it as you wish, I sure it can be adapted and tailored or just filed in the WPB.  I did wonder just before I went, whether would work or whether I should abandon it given some of the posts I received when looking for advice.  However, I had a couple of chats with a guy called Jack who occasionally posts here and with his encouragement never looked back.

Can't answer your question re the girls.  Whilst I might feel like a 21-year-old I'm not sure I could have found one to feel 

Good Luck,

Paul

[Gator]

Bluesfairy,

Why, you don't believe that girls can be young, stupid, and decent at the same time?

Many perhaps are; however, I would not want such and therein rests your sarcasm.

Hey BF, I saw your photo at the Ocean City MD beaches.  You are very much the whole package!!!  I thought you were in North Carolina.  There is very much about you that remains a mystery.  How is everything going in your new country?  When is the wedding?   

I ask because this thread is dead.  JamesTee has vaporized, his last post calling Ken a grandpap!  Very dignified!  Pity the young, stupid and decent (sincere) RW who ends up with him.  However, if one is stupid, one needs little more.  Pigs in mud.

The largest problem I see is that he is teaching our next generation.

[Blues Fairy]

Hey BF, I saw your photo at the Ocean City MD beaches.  You are very much the whole package!!!  I thought you were in North Carolina.  There is very much about you that remains a mystery.  How is everything going in your new country?  When is the wedding?   

Gator, thanks for the compliment!  The problem with being old, wise and decent at the same time is that the search process is so damn long! I'm sure you understand.

No I'm still in Moscow, meeting with various friends and waiting for my latest album to be completed.  It's currently being mixed at a studio in St.Pete and I'll have to make another trip there to pick it up.  My fiance has found a nice apartment in Raleigh and sends me pictures of it and the surroundings.  I plan to move around December 6-7.  Airfare rates are murder.

Wedding?  Well...  So far the plan is to gather everybody in VT, my guy's home state, in the last week of January, rent a chalet, have a ceremony, party, and then ski for the rest of the week!  I'm hoping his folks and brothers can make it; my crowd will be travelling half the world to join us. 

But knowing my fiance and his relatives, I have to understand that things can change in the last moment.  It's the Russians who need to plan their travel way in advance.  Americans just don't get it!

[catzenmouse]

JamesTee has vaporized, his last post calling Ken a grandpap!  Very dignified!

Actually I am so that part is true. My oldest girl had a baby girl a few months ago. Now I know how you can really get in trouble with a RW. Call her a grandmother. Evil eye, growl, and barely contained violence are all there just waiting for the next wrong word... 

Pity the young, stupid and decent (sincere) RW who ends up with him.  However, if one is stupid, one needs little more.  Pigs in mud.

The largest problem I see is that he is teaching our next generation.

The last line is probably the scariest part of all. This person is passing their values and belief system on to these kids while doing his hidden Aqualung impression. Very scary indeed!

Blues Fairy,

 Best of luck with the album and travel plans getting the family together.

 Any chance of posting an .mp3 or your music or pointing us to a You Tube?

Ken

[55North]

I'm a bit concerned about the amount of cash some off you seem to think an FSU venture must cost.  Maybe I've been lucky, or just extremely prudent, but it is possible to be successful on less than a teacher's pay (and significant mortgage commitment).  A profound plus for teachers are those magnificent holidays.  I have found my problem to be time poverty rather than that of cash.  Of course, my former home social expenditure, and all holiday expenditure has been devoted to the cause, but it has been worth every penny. 

Yes, I'm UK-based, but there doesn't seem to be too much in it flightcost-wise when I compare to US friends, giving that UK prices are way above the US.
 
I should add that the use of a credible agency with focused visits is much more economic than speculative touring and socials.
 
Incidentally, a friend of mine from the Eastern US seaboard, of the same modest income, has been enjoying himself for some 5 years in Ukraine.
 

[pk-uk]

I'm a bit concerned about the amount of cash some off you seem to think an FSU venture must cost.  Maybe I've been lucky, or just extremely prudent............

Yes, I'm UK-based...........
 

I nearly questioned the amounts stated too.  Despite a relatively poor financial position - my divorce had left me bankrupt and I'd had to enter an IVA with my creditors - I managed to find the girl of my dreams in the FSU - and marry - on a lot less.

Of course, Americans do seem to have the reputation of splashing the cash over there and being a good target for a good time so possibly therein lies the answer.  I don't know.

:usdeyes: :noidea:

[Shadow]

There is a difference between enjoyng a holiday and actually bringing over a partner.

But lets see... if you have been using your holiday budget for 3-5 years on 2 trips a year. (4-10 trips)
One 7-day trip will cost you about $850 if you are not spending a lot on shopping and diners. ($500 on flight plus $50 a day).
After 10 trips you will have spent $8500, without result.
Add to this the cost of agencies, calls and visa applications.

You do not have to spend all this at once, but you must be able to spend a fair amount.

[Mir]

Yes James T (was T for Troll?) has long departed.

Airfares have tended to be a bit lower from UK, chasing hot 20 year olds can be expensive as it would be discos, restaurants, shopping etc over multiple trips.
Finding a more appropriate, marriage minded lady (may be around 30 which is outside James's target range) could be less expensive but more the number of trips, the more the expense.
One of the quickest to get married recently is Kuna, lets see what his final tab comes to when he does the counting.

[Turboguy]

I think the key difference is that what is important is what you should be prepaired to spend.   If you get into anything undercapitalized you are begging for trouble.  

There are guys who write women through something like free personals, make a trip and get some travel bargains, find an affordable apartment and get engaged on trip one.  

When I made my first tour trip with EC one of the guys along was a tow truck driver from Colorado who had saved his pennies to take the tour.   Actually he through a few bucks in a jar each day for 3+ years to take the tour.   When I think of someone who had little chance of success he is often the first to come to my mind.   To me the minimum someone should be able to handle to give much serious though to this is to be able to afford to go at least two times a year for at least a week a time.  

I will agree it is much cheaper for someone from Europe to go and if someone really knows the language and their way around it can be much cheaper for them as well.  

[jb]

I suspect James Tee has long since left the building.

I/O, you guys don't need me to help sniff out a troll, there are a lot of good and clear thinkers already right here should I decide to take a trip to Houston for a few days.

55North, likewise I don't know where some of these numbers come from.  Although I don't recommend trying this on a middle-America teacher's salary unless there is some significant savings already in the bank to back things up.   When I was involved in the courting phase, I was earning more than twice the typical teaching pay and still had to watch my spending habits.  My wife is currently a teacher and we certainly couldn't afford to take several trips abroad each year on what she makes.   IMHO, teachers in this country are among the most educated and least appreciated,,, sad, but true.   

Regarding "how much" is enough, well,,, as I wrote in the FAQ section, that's hard to say.  What I will say is that this endeavor gets even more expensive once she arrives.  There are so many more additional costs associated with getting a RW/UW up to speed and able to function once she gets here.   A woman simply cannot pack up their life in two large suitcases and relocate.   I think it's safe to say that a new female wardrobe is going to set a man back a few thousand in the first weeks she is in her new home.  Teach her to drive and buy her a good used car/w insurance, and you've spent an additional $6 - 8,000, for even a 5-6 year old Toyota Camry, or equivalent.  Run her by the dentist and watch another 5+K go away.   If she was living at home, did her salary help support her aging parents and grand parents?  By taking her away, you took food off their table, are you prepared to supplement their income to the tune of a few hundred a month?  Indefinitely??? 

And God help you if you fall in love with a woman with a child, because things just got really expensive.

Can a man do this on a teacher's salary?  Maybe.  Can a man go searching for a "10" hottie, half his age, on a teacher's salary and expect to keep her happy, I sincerely doubt it. 

pk-uk, I'll ignore the "Americans splash cash" comment since you obviously don't know very many Americans.

One 7-day trip will cost you about $850 if you are not spending a lot on shopping and diners. ($500 on flight plus $50 a day).

 

Shadow, I don't doubt the cost of your airfare at $500, however I do question your daily expense rate of $50.  I don't know where you travel, but I've never found lodging, meals, and daily transportation that cheap anywhere, and I've spent a lot of time in the FSU.  Not recently of course, but even back when things were dirt cheap it cost more than that. 

[Gator]

Even in provincial cities, a respectable apartment will cost $70/day. 

I could eat in Russia on $50/day if I were on a cabbage diet, took my date to McDonald's, and did not buy her any cake with afternoon tea.

JB's FAQ about "What does it cost" is here:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?pid=10

[Turboguy]

jb, nice post and I agree with what you said.   Two points though.

I think income is not all that related to financial ability to persue this venture.  I think disposable income is a better measure.   You mentioned having twice the salary of a teacher and needing to watch your money.   They salary I take from my business is not that much more than a teachers salary and I was able to afford to go as often as I wanted for as long as I wanted.   It only used to cost me about a weeks salary to make it though a month so I could save tons of money for a trip.

I think too when the RW arrives there is a world of difference.  I can recall one of our good members talking about $ 800.00 linens within a day of his gals arrival.  VWRW has been here now for 6 weeks and I have not spent half of that on her in total and to put that in context I don't think there was anything she asked for that I did not get her.

I don't think we can say who can and can't afford this in many cases but I do think we are helping them in making them aware that it is something they should evaluate very carefully.

[55North]

I think the key difference is that what is important is what you should be prepaired to spend.   If you get into anything undercapitalized you are begging for trouble.  

There are guys who write women through something like free personals, make a trip and get some travel bargains, find an affordable apartment and get engaged on trip one.  

When I made my first tour trip with EC one of the guys along was a tow truck driver from Colorado who had saved his pennies to take the tour.   Actually he through a few bucks in a jar each day for 3+ years to take the tour.   When I think of someone who had little chance of success he is often the first to come to my mind.   To me the minimum someone should be able to handle to give much serious though to this is to be able to afford to go at least two times a year for at least a week a time.  

I will agree it is much cheaper for someone from Europe to go and if someone really knows the language and their way around it can be much cheaper for them as well.  

It's all about 'horses for courses'.  You can make your own luck by careful partner selection, with a view to life-style expectations back home when you have won her, and her capacity to contribute economically, etc. And by being brutally frank so there are no huge surprises.  I have no dependants.
 
67 days in 7 trips in Ukraine over 18 months with one partner with own apartment, no dependants, English teacher, fiancee visa, her fare over, - and return.  It didn't work out then, but she's still writing me regarding a second chance.
 
However, I've moved on. By next spring, I can add 40 days in 3 trips to the North Caucasus (twice the travel cost to Kyiv inc. visas), Fiancee Visa, her fare, English teacher, no dependants, wish to work directly, jobs aplenty.
 
All on a wage similar to a (British) tow-truck operator, albeit with a credit card able to take a decent hit at the back end of the venture, especially for the new wardrobe!  No car necessary in this (European) city.  Even I don't own one at present.  All she earns will be the household 'surplus'.  After I've upped my credit card repayments!
 
But I don't for one moment assume that my (our) lifestyle and consumer level will satisfy many on this board.  As soon as someone mentions the words 'yacht' and 'Caribbean' in the same paragraph, I lose interest.  That is precisely why it is unwise for strangers to cost each others spending requirements too precisely, though indeed behoven on us 'experienced' ones to give reality checks were necessary.

[pk-uk]

pk-uk, I'll ignore the "Americans splash cash" comment since you obviously don't know very many Americans.

Hmmm...  so how is it obvious I don't know many Americans?  My post was in the context of the reputation that Americans seem to have gauged on comments from FSU girls I have met and agency owners.  Given the seemingly high amounts that are quoted as needed then I wondered if there was any truth behind it?  Like I said, I didn't know.

After all, it is only a small percentage of the AM population that do go over there.  For all I know maybe it is mainly the relatively better-off and that those who aren't suffer the label.

Of course, what is good advice is to plan out the financial costs to ensure that you can afford it.  To some extent it is possible to tailor your search criteria to try to manage the costs. For example, whilst I wanted a wife with children.  There has also been good advice on how the method of searching can make a difference.

However, one can only advise someone.  It is up to them to work out if they can afford it, not to blatantly say it will cost this or that or you need this or that - as you say, it is hard to say.

And by the way, how do you know I don't know the costs and difficulties of a lady emigrating to America  

Best Wishes,

Paul

[Shadow]

$50 a day is possible if you stay on the low-expense side.
Although I must say that I have not been able to stay in that limit, but that is a personal matter 

Still when you manage to get a cheap apartment and enjoy local cuisine instead of those French or Japanese restaurants, a small amount of money still goes some way.