The train came off the tracks

[I/O]

There is nothing wrong with having a close family.  I think it is glorious.  Consulting with your family is very wise because no matter how smart one head is, two heads are smarter than one.

Gator: A close family is a great life blessing. I have been fortunate enough to grow up in a very loyal family although it would be difficult to call us close in the sense most would understand. As one of 3 brothers and we all concur on this (One of the very few things we do concur on) we are close and yet not, we see each other about twice a year if that, but if push comes to shove, any one of us would travel the length of the country in a heartbeat to help the other.

The same goes for our parents. We don't see them everyday and yet we still tend to gravitate there for family gatherings from time to time and at 49, 48 and 42 we all, often defer to our father as a "sounding board" when it comes to heavy financial decisions, notwithstanding  2 of us are probably in a stronger financial position than he is in some respects. Further 2 of us have solid real estate/business investment in shares with our father.

Nevertheless, on a decision such as marriage, I have/would/will never consult my parents regarding the person in question. If I ain't big enough and ugly enough to make that sort of decision alone, then I shouldn't be facing the decision period. Add to that, on these sorts of issues, I am very private and my parents, although the first locals to know of my decision, were only informed after the visa was approved and they had no real idea that anything of  marriage nature was developing, although they may have suspected. Basically they were told 3 months out from our wedding.

Again, my parents in a very typical way, never commented on the validity of the idea (Wouldn't have made any difference anyway and they would know that all too well. Go figure) however they immediately raised many of the challenges that the ol' boys such as KenC, JB, Groov and others raise here on RWD and summarised it by saying, "This girl is going to need all of our support". They (And my brothers) have more than lived up to that comment so far to the extent that my parents are out of the city right now and will arrive home today to a very expectant Russian woman. She has been hanging out for them to come home as she really enjoys their company and support. From time to time she goes MIA for an hour or so and if I phone around, if she is not shopping (Russian women ) she is with my mother (Prolly shopping anyway) or father off doing something.

All of that is by the by, but my point is that you can be involved in a close family without being tied to the apron strings. I question the independence of someone feeling they need to get their parents involved at the decision making stage of marriage. To me, it reeks of someone who doesn't know their own mind.

Maybe I am wrong but I think you complicate situation. I think the K-1 visa implies

VWRW: OTOH, I simplify it. What you think the K-1 implies is not the point. The point is that it was designed as a facilitator for a marriage that was already decided upon. One can twist and wriggle and slight the interpretations till the cows come home, the bottom line is using it for any other purpose is trying to slide through loopholes and then people wonder why visas are difficult to obtain. Unbelievable .

I/O

[KenC]

Gator,
I understand your disagreement with my conclusions.  I might even agree with you based on each individual topic.  But if you read between the lines and stand back for an over view of the entire story, I get a sense that DKMM has some maturing to do and that cutting some apron strings are necessary.  There are some decisions that you may share with your parents and then there are others you should be able to do on your own (even in close families).

I cannot remember a single time where I sought out the approval of a girl/woman from my parents.  It was always more "here is who I have chosen to be with, take it or leave it."  As a matter of fact, I can still vividly recall my confronting my Mother when she disparaged the girl I was dating at 17.  That girl ended up being my first wife of many years too.  Sorry, but I see that as the difference between the actions of a man vs. actions of a boy.  Intergrating your gf/fiancee/wife into the family is important, but not in the decisive phase of the relationship.
KenC

[timothe]

As someone who is going through the Visa process (again), I just want to express my gratitude for this thread.  It has been very helpful for me. 

[Jazzyclassy]

I hope that this thread is helpful for people , but I still just can not understand how they will give DKMM a new fiancee visa if he finds another girl? Wont they remember his situation that he cancelled this one? Maybe he should stick to american girls as it is hard for him to sorta understand and make it happen with russians

Because honestly we can not blame only this girl in their broken relations, he is also to blame that he was impatient, jumpt into wedding process so soon, was soft enough to do everything she asks , and so on

I mean with such impatience and huge desire to just be married , he wont be able to make it with any normal  russian woman , cos really it takes time you can not just marry after 2 dates.

I am sure he understands the points am making here and wont get offended

[Turboguy]

I mean with such impatience and huge desire to just be married , he wont be able to make it with any normal  Russian woman , cos really it takes time you can not just marry after 2 dates.
I am sure he understands the points am making here and wont get offended

I agree with you Jazzy but people still do it.   Usually when the do, they not only have the crash course in marriages but divorces as well.

To me the situation with DKMM now reminds me of driving along a street approaching an intersecton and at the last minute you see a stop sign mostly hidden by a tree branch.  If you don't see any traffic and don't see any cops sometimes it is easier to just go through the intersection rather than slam your brakes on for nothing.  From an IMBRA standpoint, he already used up one of his two shots.  If they both feel there is some hope of a relationship if she likes life here and with him then maybe just going on with it is the best option. 

[KenC]

I agree with you Jazzy but people still do it.   Usually when the do, they not only have the crash course in marriages but divorces as well.

To me the situation with DKMM now reminds me of driving along a street approaching an intersecton and at the last minute you see a stop sign mostly hidden by a tree branch.  If you don't see any traffic and don't see any cops sometimes it is easier to just go through the intersection rather than slam your brakes on for nothing.  From an IMBRA standpoint, he already used up one of his two shots.  If they both feel there is some hope of a relationship if she likes life here and with him then maybe just going on with it is the best option. 

Damn Turbo,
I was hoping some steady lovin would help your sense of logic, but I guess there is only so much love can cure.  How the hell can you advise against it in your opening paragraph and then for it in your closing one?  Go back to bed.
KenC

[William3rd]

IMBRA? Why is anybody invoking IMBRA at this point in time?

For those who do not pay attention-

IMBRA waivers are currently being used to screen out the batterers since DV guys are not eligible for a K waiver for either the 1 in 24 months or the 2 lifetime..

My cases have had waivers requested for as much as a 5 k visa applicant and a 6 k visa applicant. All cases have been approved without any comment.

BTW- for 24 months between petitions, IMBRA would apply anyway if he chose to rush.

He was fer it before he was against it? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Ya know- you can see these train wrecks coming a long way off just by reading some of the posters. . . . . .

[DKMM]

There are so many great insights here!  I'm going to write my response in order of yours.  First of all, what a great community here.  I had the night out with friends last night and they all talked my head off about this.  I wanted to take some time to myself to consider more as well but I came back on here and it really got my thoughts going again since a lot of you seem to read my mind pretty well.

Disregard my original thoughts in the post regarding how to do this correctly (i.e. find a desperate woman), that was just my emotions wearing on here.

We were both more into this months ago than we are now.  I will not lie, my own feelings were we need to get to know each other more before her coming to marry me.  I was pushy, and nervous around her because I was not certain either.  I could sense something was not right and that was our relations were deviating from a natural course.  I am sure now we should have dated much longer before getting engaged.  I think that is the seed that caused everything to go wrong because if we were just dating, I could relax about everything and act naturally.  That's what E told me too.

jb absolutely true words.  The facebook thing is she put those pictures up starting right after our engagement and added some slowly over the past 5 months.  She doesn't seem to use the site much based on the few comments I've found, so its not entirely revealing either.  I can't make a huge deal out of that site but it was what got me thinking that my gut feeling was maybe telling me something I should listen to.

I know that E talked about me with her friends, I've spoken with several of them outside of being with E as well as met many more in Russia with her.  They have also told me how she is excited but nervous about moving here with me.  Her best friend told me she is trying to tell me how much I mean to her by showing that she is not wanting to come here but only for love of me (that was before she got on the "I'm not sure" train though).  Also we had an engagement party with our families and her mom wished us success in our marriage but who knows that isn't too telling either because her pulling back is a more recent thing.

When we are together she usually is all over me, unless her mood turns sour.  That is pretty much normal for women but she can get really unhappy easily and she tells me that she is aware of her own personality flaws and wants to improve them.  She says I should not feel like she doesn't love me when she's in bad mood and instead should just wait till she comes around.

I told her that we are not engaged and should be just dating if not 100% sure.  And I agreed with her that I am not 100% either.  She freaked out a bit but thinks we should go with the visa anyhow.  She called yesterday and told me that despite her "questions" she still loves me.  She also wants me to know that she is pretty sure it can work or would never be willing to try.  E told me that she is aware of how difficult it will be and that she will try her best to adapt but cannot know for sure.  She is also sorry that she doesn't act correctly regarding our long distance relationship.  I can't really tell what the hell is going on in her head but that's ok I'm not in a rush to put this thing back on track.

I do love her and am not at all thinking I can just hop back on a plane and go find another.  It will take me some time to get over this...if we do go our seperate ways.

[DKMM]

Special response to Ken and others that are addressing my own person:
Some of you are trying to analyze my mind.  that's a dangerous place to be!    I know that it means you have some sort of issues if want a RW in the 1st place right?  OK all joking aside, part of this problem was due to me being a bit unsure if I'm ready myself.  She was always seeking reassurance that I am willing to be there for her no matter what.   

In my mind I'm ready for marriage, I'm not really sure what I have to do to "know" that.  The CZ ring and upgrade seemed like a good idea at the time, but I learned from that one.

As far as taking my family to Russia, I don't know why that's such a bad thing.  If anything it was the one smart thing I did.  She really wanted to meet them and it was a great trip for our relationship.  I never approached it from a perspective of getting my mom or brother's approval (it wasn't even my idea!).  Even suggesting that kind of thinking leads me to wonder how some of your family relations work.  How is it any different then me meeting her mom and sister on that same trip?

I have my own line of work unrelated to the family business.  Its not really a “business” either, its more like a series of different types of investments.  My family has given me the management and control over this and its one of the ways I take care of my parents, not the other way around.  The only thing that should be relevant is that it does anchor me in the USA.

And as far as what VWRW is saying, my E says it too.  She says most of the girls she knows on her version of RWD or her friends that came to the USA on the K1 approached the visa in the same mindset, as a try and see first.  I have no way to verify that, but it might be insightful for some guys.

[Misha]

She freaked out a bit but thinks we should go with the visa anyhow.  She called yesterday and told me that despite her "questions" she still loves me.  She also wants me to know that she is pretty sure it can work or would never be willing to try. 

Are you sure that you want to be with a woman who is "pretty sure" it can work out? That is hardly what I call gushing with enthusiasm if that is truly what she said. I, personally, would wait for someone who truly loves me and is CERTAIN that it would work, before getting married. It does not mean that it will, but I would rather be with a woman who is fully committed to what she is doing.

[KenC]

gabaub,
Oh what the Hell?  With such a commitment like that, I'm "pretty sure" the train wreck is still coming!   I am only sorry that I got sucked into this pile of crap again and took it seriously.  He deserves whatever he gets.

DKMM,
What's your Momma say about all this?
KenC

[DKMM]

gabaub,

You are exactly right.  That is my paraphrase, not her exact words.  I wouldn't even be talking about this if I was ok with her stance on the issue.  Not very long ago she was certain of wanting to marry me and living here and it is this change in her opinion that caused my alarm.  I am not willing to K1 her just to satisfy her curiousity about my life.  If I don't know that she is giving it her best effort and loves me, then its a waste of my time.  If there is a positive, at least I know that she is not going to lie to me to get married.  I am certainly not going to marry her if I am not 100% convinced she is committed and is right for me.  I don't think we can figure that out during the K1 window either.

Ken,
My mom doesn't know the details like I've shared here so she doesn't have an opinion. 

[Photo Guy]

Okay, so then what are the viable solutions?

[DKMM]

I don't know, the only options are stay the course or terminate it.  Being able to come on here and share my situation helped me out; maybe there isn't much else to be said.  When I first posted, it was all over in my mind.  Then she started trying to convince me that she just has some doubts about doing this but wants me to stay the course.  Meanwhile i'm in limbo deciding what to do, weighing the pros and cons and also reevaluating our relationship in general.  But no rush either way...

I'll let y'all know what happens.

[Bruce]

DKMM - run, run fast, run hard and never come back to this girl despite any lingering feelings of doubt you may have.  This girl has proven without a shadow of a doubt based on what you have written that she is not wife material at this point in her life for YOU.   Remember, you want someone who is into YOU - without a shadow of a doubt.  Go back to the drawing board and think what you really want in a prospective wife.  Go back to the FSU, to a target rich environment and enjoy yourself.  Be prepared to make several trips.  If you happen to find a girl you really like, who equally likes you plan on taking your time getting to know her and her family.  Maybe she will really love you and be wife material for you.  Never be in a rush.  Enjoy every moment of your life.  Best of luck.

[55North]

As someone who is going through the Visa process (again), I just want to express my gratitude for this thread.  It has been very helpful for me. 

I agree.  It has reminded me of some flaglettes that accompanied the demise of my previous fiancee visa, and is the basis of a final checklist before committing again, very soon.
 
Thank you all.

[Gator]

IMO, the two of you are approaching marriage yet in your minds neither of you seem ready for marriage.  That is understandable if she were in America and you had dated the same amount of time as you have met in Russia.

You can delay the embassy interview by 3-6 months.  Upon receiving the visa, you can delay her entry by 6-12 months (not sure of exact length of time but delays are possible).  Will this added time of meeting periodically in Russia change anything?

What if you did the K-1 delays and the two of you just lived somewhere together for 6 months (Costa Rica, etc.).  I would think that more revealing than the present K-1 timetable. Three months together in America is still too short because you need to decide within two months and the first month could be cultural shock for her.

You have a job!  So what.  Quit and look again.  Marrying the wrong woman will have a far more devastating effect on your life than taking a break from your career development.  It sounds as if you can do some of your family business on the Internet.

[I/O]

Quit and look again. 

Gator: Frankly, I would just leave it at that.

I/O

[I/O]

Ooops, double posted somehow.

[BC]

IMO, the two of you are approaching marriage yet in your minds neither of you seem ready for marriage.  That is understandable if she were in America and you had dated the same amount of time as you have met in Russia.

What a concept.

Seems a bit 'catch 22' when the effort of getting out of a situation is greater than that of getting into it.

Vice versa when dating the girl back home.

[Gator]

Yeah BC, we justifiably criticize One Week Wonders, yet how many men have spent as much time with a RW as he would with a AW before deciding to marry?  And an AW shares the same language and culture.

[Gator]

Quote from Gator on Today at 12:20:40 PM
Quit and look again.

Gator: Frankly, I would just leave it at that.

   

Clever twist of words I/O, but acceptable given the situation.

I was just offering another option if they were really into each other, yet still harbored some reservations.  They are young and have the time to take their time.

I had some of DKMM's reservations with my ex-fiancee.   Upon our breakup, she suggested living together in Latin America.  I gave it much thought but declined. However, we continued to communicate as friends while dating others.  The stars in heaven somehow became aligned and with one incredible, dramatic move on her part, we are together again.  And it is far better this time.

Time can be a friend.

[I/O]

Gator: The point you make that stands out to me is that you went on and did your own thing without being hung up on her. Had you wallowed in the situation (Just a guess) you probably would have gone nowhere.

I have always opposed this idea of third location living together and for that matter meetings also. It can work, but for the most part it puts the two people very much in holiday mode and often that bares little relevance to the reality of living together as a married couple with all the home hum drum that goes with it.

I/O

[Gator]

My feeling is that it ain't no holiday after a few months. 

In fact, it possibly can be very trying.  The man has no job to go to.  So she has him for better or worse and for lunch too. 

DKMM knows himself and his woman better than we do, so he has to make a decision.

You are correct - "wallowing" is not the answer.

[BillyB]

DKMM, don't think you will have to endure embarrassment from family and friends if you cancel your wedding. As you mentioned, your mom doesn't know about the current situation and probably other family members neither. Some men feel pressured to proceed with a wedding although red flags appear because they can't face the embarrassment or the "I told you so's". The truth is the people who have a good head on their shoulders would understand that it wasn't easy for you to cancel a wedding and they would end up respecting you even more for being able to walk away.

What is known is you are not getting the attention and affection you hoped for from this RW who you've visited many times. It is not known if this situation will change. Do you have the time to wait and see? What is known is there are women out there that will give you what you need in a relationship with no doubts and that are perfect for you. You may have overlooked them or not found them yet. Personally, I'd move on. As with Gator's relationship, it can always rekindle later if it is to happen at all but until then, get busy knowing others.