The train came off the tracks

[Jazzyclassy]

I think DKMM should really just move on if he wants to be a friend let him try why not, though we all know how difficult it is to be friends after relations though there are cases when people are successfully in friendship

Though all those things what family or friends would say should not exist at all , that is his life he can not just live pretending everything is great for the sake of family and friends that is just foolish

plus as I already told somewhere, if the relations right now are not smooth and he has such an emotional waste , negative emotions, he can not expect that with time and moreover when she moves there it will be better, it is going to be even worse , so he just really need to let it go.

And yes she is a user , emotional vampire money waster person there are such women , and unlike DKMM I am living in Russia all of my life I know such women exist and noway somebody like DKMM will change them , that is their motto in life to live as selfishly as possbile and to take everything from life by the cost of somebody's happiness and so on.

Yet I guess he does not understand this , as he created the thread only just to state his problems, he is too much charmed by her and  can hardly get out of her hook....

[KenC]

Jazzy
You probably can judge DKMM's fiancee better than most here as didn't you meet DKMM and her?

I think a clean break is always best as there are too many emotions and frayed nerves at the end of a relationship.  Continuing contact only continues the disappointment and heartache.  Maybe friendship is possible, but not at this time IMO.
KenC

[LiveFromUkraine]

Jazzy
You probably can judge DKMM's fiancee better than most here as didn't you meet DKMM and her?

I think a clean break is always best as there are too many emotions and frayed nerves at the end of a relationship.  Continuing contact only continues the disappointment and heartache.  Maybe friendship is possible, but not at this time IMO.
KenC

That has always been my philosophy.  I never stay friends with ex lovers, especially when there are strong feelings in place.  Too much of a emotional rollercoaster ride.  I have always just cut off all contact and moved on.  My wife thinks I am odd when it comes to this.


Thomas

[Jazzyclassy]

Yes I met them both and as I already expressed my opinion about her, that she is mean , insincere undercover, secretive person , pretending to be somebody nice ( that is only my point of view, I might be wrong in some statements ) , DKMM is under her spell and I reckon it will be just a period in their long suffering relations torturing relations , as he is not intending to cancel his K-1 visa ,which to my mind is the best decision and to relax from each other for sure.

But once again we can only debate here and give our opinion we can not persuade and it is never our aim and we can not put our heads  to those people.

Honestly I do not see the sense of DKMM's posting this thread as nothing will change , he will still be her puppet, puppy and a person who probably likes such  electoshock waves, burst of negative emotions in his relations?

[KenC]

Yes I met them both and as I already expressed my opinion about her, that she is mean , insincere undercover, secretive person , pretending to be somebody nice ( that is only my point of view, I might be wrong in some statements ) , DKMM is under her spell and I reckon it will be just a period in their long suffering relations torturing relations , as he is not intending to cancel his K-1 visa ,which to my mind is the best decision and to relax from each other for sure.

But once again we can only debate here and give our opinion we can not persuade and it is never our aim and we can not put our heads  to those people.

Honestly I do not see the sense of DKMM's posting this thread as nothing will change , he will still be her puppet, puppy and a person who probably likes such  electoshock waves, burst of negative emotions in his relations?

Jazzy,
That is what I thought too.  He isn't avoiding the train wreck, only postponing it.  Unfortunately, the crash will be more severe later than now.  Oh well, it is his life to ruin.
Ken

[I/O]

Hell just froze over and the polar caps are melting............ :hairraising: :hairraising: :hairraising: Jazz and KenC on the same page on a subject. There is hope yet.

I/O

[William3rd]

I had to read it three times myself !!!!!!! Holy Toledo. . . . . . .

[acrzybear]

DAMN!!!!!! two times within 7 days!!!!

[DKMM]

Well I'm glad to have generated something positive out of this thread.

It certainly helped me realize some things that I couldn't figure out on my own and I appreciate that.  I've figured things out, acted on my hunch and so far appears to be the correct course. 

In any case, the K-1 takes about 8 to 9 months these days so there is hardly a difference between canceling one and letting it continue when hitting a road block.  I hope some people learn to not be hasty when the going gets rough.  I do wonder where some of you people come from with such attitudes towards life but you probably wonder the same thing about me.

[Jazzyclassy]

well but do not you understand that the picture about you in people 's mind here is really doubtful cos you came here with a problem with your girlfriend you think she is not committed enough to you and you wanted to end up the relations, so why then you continue to lie to yourself and make people believe that relations which are built up on lies can be successful? and can actually exist
Cos when you come up with such a serious statement that you want your relations to be ended up and then suddenly turn it upside down and portray it as some normal situation in the relations and you are all in love and happy

If you knew you would not end up the relations with her , why you ever posted these doubts here? it looks not real ,everything

[DKMM]

I am happy to oblige.  It was all a big blowout because I was on a different page than her, not just regarding the wedding thing.  Once I realized what my own actions and thoughts were doing (i.e. she was spurred by my own doubts) then I figured it out.  We have talked on average 4 hours a day all week and sure enough we are seeing eye to eye now and I've never been more relaxed about my best friend and RW (same person).  I don't worry about what will happen now, either we make it or not, and it will all be for the best.

Sorry if that was rambling, i'm past my bedtime.

[KenC]

well but do not you understand that the picture about you in people 's mind here is really doubtful cos you came here with a problem with your girlfriend you think she is not committed enough to you and you wanted to end up the relations, so why then you continue to lie to yourself and make people believe that relations which are built up on lies can be successful? and can actually exist
Cos when you come up with such a serious statement that you want your relations to be ended up and then suddenly turn it upside down and portray it as some normal situation in the relations and you are all in love and happy

If you knew you would not end up the relations with her , why you ever posted these doubts here? it looks not real ,everything

Jazzy,
It is called "self justification."
Main Entry: self-jus·ti·fi·ca·tion
Function: noun
Pronunciation: "self-"j&s-t&-f&-'kA-sh&n
: the act or an instance of making excuses for oneself

You see, Jazzy, guys like DKMM want so much to make things work, that no amount of logic or red flags can stop them from eventually hurting themselves.  They overlook lies, deceit, lack of affection, lack of commitment and all the warning signs and logic to jump into a marriage that is doomed from the start.  He makes excuse after excuse for his bad judgement and her bad behavior.

DKMM is "in love" with being in love with a RW.  Who the girl is has little to do with his fantasy.  He was predetermined to be in love when he bought the engagement ring before he even met her.  DKMM has spent a good amount of time with her and has come to know her but fails to understand that the reason one takes such actions is to find out if there are any flaws in the relationship.  He has found the flaws and yet persists in following through to marriage.  Hoping against hope that "all will be well."  It rarely does end well though.  Expect more drama, more disappointments and eventual failure because DKMM is in a total state of denial.
Main Entry: de·ni·al
Function: noun
Pronunciation: di-'nī(-&)l, de-
1 : refusal to satisfy a request or desire
2 a (1) : refusal to admit the truth or reality (as of a statement or charge) (2) : assertion that an allegation is false b : refusal to acknowledge a person or a thing : DISAVOWAL
3 : the opposing by the defendant of an allegation of the opposite party in a lawsuit
4 : SELF -denial
5 : negation in logic
6 : a psychological defense mechanism in which confrontation with a personal problem or with reality is avoided by denying the existence of the problem or reality

KenC

[Gator]

KenC and Jazzy,

The two of you may be correct in your assessment.  However, DKMM knows far more than the two of you, unless he is indeed blinded by his emotions.

DKMM came here to clarify his confusion.  I attempted to brainstorm some options (perhaps brainsprinkle is better) which could bounce around in his head as he deliberates.

What impresses me is that they have talked 4 hours a day for a week.  There must be something between them to talk that much. 

DKMM's situation is an indicator of the future in the RW caper.  Women have options and are not desperate.  They will become more hesitant about making a decision about marriage when the time spent together is not enough to really get to know the man, much less develop feelings of true love.

The only possible problem, DKMM, with continuing the K-1 process is the implication for doing another K-1 with another RW if this one eventually collapses.  There are time (18 months) limits and total number (two) limits.  Variances have been granted, however.

[Misha]

I don't worry about what will happen now, either we make it or not, and it will all be for the best.

I take it you have never been through a nasty divorce or have never seen someone that has. Those who do go through the nightmare, rarely say when they are in the nasty cesspool that a bad divorce can be that "it will all be for the best" and they are kicking themselves for entering into a marriage with such nonchalance by thinking "either we make it or not."

[groovlstk]

DKMM,

Looking back on your history with this girl I see a very troubling pattern emerging.

1. She does something or you find out something about her that that is serious enough to be a dealbreaker.
2. You decide to break things off with her and then come to RWD to get opinions and support for your decision.
3. You pick and choose among random comments from posters here that rationalize her behavior; slowly but surely your initial stance turns to jelly.
4. You not only forgive her but begin to shoulder the blame for her bad behavior.

This is a terrible pattern to be stuck in, akin to a snake swallowing its own tail.

At the very least, you're telling this girl that she can do almost anything she wants; at this point she probably knows you're hooked and will always blame her bad behavior on yourself. It's classic sterva behavior...

[WmGO]

Jazzy,
It is called "self justification."
Main Entry: self-jus·ti·fi·ca·tion
Function: noun
Pronunciation: "self-"j&s-t&-f&-'kA-sh&n
: the act or an instance of making excuses for oneself

You see, Jazzy, guys like DKMM want so much to make things work, that no amount of logic or red flags can stop them from eventually hurting themselves.  They overlook lies, deceit, lack of affection, lack of commitment and all the warning signs and logic to jump into a marriage that is doomed from the start.  He makes excuse after excuse for his bad judgement and her bad behavior.

DKMM is "in love" with being in love with a RW.  Who the girl is has little to do with his fantasy.  He was predetermined to be in love when he bought the engagement ring before he even met her.  DKMM has spent a good amount of time with her and has come to know her but fails to understand that the reason one takes such actions is to find out if there are any flaws in the relationship.  He has found the flaws and yet persists in following through to marriage.  Hoping against hope that "all will be well."  It rarely does end well though.  Expect more drama, more disappointments and eventual failure because DKMM is in a total state of denial.
Main Entry: de·ni·al
Function: noun
Pronunciation: di-'nī(-&)l, de-
1 : refusal to satisfy a request or desire
2 a (1) : refusal to admit the truth or reality (as of a statement or charge) (2) : assertion that an allegation is false b : refusal to acknowledge a person or a thing : DISAVOWAL
3 : the opposing by the defendant of an allegation of the opposite party in a lawsuit
4 : SELF -denial
5 : negation in logic
6 : a psychological defense mechanism in which confrontation with a personal problem or with reality is avoided by denying the existence of the problem or reality

KenC

I agree with this assessment. This train wreck could be seen coming a mile away - even before DKMM returned to FSU for his second visit wherein he contemplated bringing a CZ ring..............used to see it all the time with guys on the old PL and the results were always the same: crash and burn.

DKMM's story is a text book case of how WM should NOT go about pursuing relationships with FSUW (or any women).

[KenC]

KenC and Jazzy,

The two of you may be correct in your assessment.  However, DKMM knows far more than the two of you, unless he is indeed blinded by his emotions.

Well, Jazzy did meet the future Mrs. DKMM in person.  As always, we can only respond to what is posted here.  To assume it is better is a false assumption IMO as it also could be worse.

DKMM came here to clarify his confusion.  I attempted to brainstorm some options (perhaps brainsprinkle is better) which could bounce around in his head as he deliberates.

  Yeah, he regularly ignores the basic advice given here as it doesn't fit his justificational needs.

What impresses me is that they have talked 4 hours a day for a week.  There must be something between them to talk that much.

  You know I have had long conversations with used car salesmen too, but it doesn't mean I trust them, respect them or want to spend the rest of my life with them.  Who is convincing who in this story?  Besides you have two youngsters in total lust here.  Do you still wonder what the conversation is about?

DKMM's situation is an indicator of the future in the RW caper.  Women have options and are not desperate.  They will become more hesitant about making a decision about marriage when the time spent together is not enough to really get to know the man, much less develop feelings of true love.

All the better for the future IMO.  That is the way it should be.  Is there a better agenda?

The only possible problem, DKMM, with continuing the K-1 process is the implication for doing another K-1 with another RW if this one eventually collapses.  There are time (18 months) limits and total number (two) limits.  Variances have been granted, however.

Gator,
Have you been taking sunshine and rainbow lessons from Turbo?  Of course there is usually a rainbow after the friggen tornado completely destroys your house!  What a warm and gooey thought to hold on to.
KenC

[Jazzyclassy]

DKMM,

Looking back on your history with this girl I see a very troubling pattern emerging.

1. She does something or you find out something about her that that is serious enough to be a dealbreaker.
2. You decide to break things off with her and then come to RWD to get opinions and support for your decision.
3. You pick and choose among random comments from posters here that rationalize her behavior; slowly but surely your initial stance turns to jelly.
4. You not only forgive her but begin to shoulder the blame for her bad behavior.

This is a terrible pattern to be stuck in, akin to a snake swallowing its own tail.

At the very least, you're telling this girl that she can do almost anything she wants; at this point she probably knows you're hooked and will always blame her bad behavior on yourself. It's classic sterva behavior...

Groovie

that is exactly what happens with DKMM, that is sooooooo true

He comes here tells how bad she is and that he is ready to break up with her and then somebody like Gator will wisely generously tell him .... wait a minute think twice do not discourage her and bla bla bla and la la la (Gator you are sweet it is not a bad comment to  you , it is just you are the type of person who is always in balance and in bad person you try and see good things, but sometimes you really do need to clarify what is bad and what is good .... well sometimes at least  I mean we can always see only good things and live in a dreamy world)

so after those comments DKMM is like thinking "..... Oh what am I such a fool , I should not let her go, such a Russian woman , where  else will I find such ? I will better pretend that everything is nice and great just not to be left alone and to be left miserable in front of my friends and family ...." Or something just a suggestion of how he might think , not a statement!

Then he comes back to the forum and posts his breaking post That he was so wrong , he had doubts himself and that has nothing to do with her , she is so innocent and so on and then he starts telling that all those members who advised him  to break up with her are to blame  cos they told that she is a user and a bad person

why then he ever came here and posted it once again I am telling this! it is ridiculous finally

[KenC]

Jazzy,
I agree with you, yet again.

To DKMM's credit, I cannot really remember him lashing back at advice he disagreed with.  I have given him some harsh words (hoping to shake some sense into him) and he has not been disrespectful to me.
KenC

[Jazzyclassy]

Jazzy,
I agree with you, yet again.

To DKMM's credit, I cannot really remember him lashing back at advice he disagreed with.  I have given him some harsh words (hoping to shake some sense into him) and he has not been disrespectful to me.
KenC

well yeah I might been not really correct with saying that he blames members but he puts them in such a silly position that they have ever been helping him and advising him that is what I meant

[KenC]

well yeah I might been not really correct with saying that he blames members but he puts them in such a silly position that they have ever been helping him and advising him that is what I meant

Jazzy,
If you and I keep agreeing, people will begin to think we like each other!
KenC

[Misha]

My opinion: if either has ANY doubts about marriage they should not be planning a wedding. There is no such thing as a trial marriage or a trial divorce for that matter. If you are not certain that you want to spend the rest of your life with someone, you should be dating at best or better yet looking for that person that you are certain that you want to grow old with. You have to trust your intuition.

Also, why does it seem to me that some men put more thought and effort into the next car they are going to buy than the woman that they want to marry? A man and a woman should not be aiming for a fixer-upper marriage in my opinion. Any problem that exists in the marriage will be amplified by 10 as time progresses.   

[Jazzyclassy]

Jazzy,
If you and I keep agreeing, people will begin to think we like each other!
KenC

do not worry

[ScottinCrimea]

It sounds to me like two young people learning about the concept of commitment - what it means, how to do it, etc.  They seem to be testing themselves and each other. I'm inclined to think that many here had similar episodes or worse and worked their way through it.  Hopefully these two will grasp the concept before marriage. (Too many don't)

[Gator]

Yes, I always try to consider both sides because few things in life are black and white.

DKMM and his woman are both adults, and it is their decision.  I also believe that they know more about themselves than we do. 

Evidently, they see enough in each other that they will continue to try to solidify their relationship and resolve their issues, contrary to the intent of the K-1 process.   If it happens, they will marry.  If not, DKMM has wasted his time.  He is young.