Ask me, I've done it! and have been married for 3 years happily!

[LiveFromUkraine]

Perhaps the fact that my documents are in order and that I do not come out of a bar drunk in the middle of the night contribute to my experience.

Hopefully you are never poisoned by some bartender trying to make some extra cash by serving home made alcohol.  According to what you stated you can't blame the guy since he doesn't make a lot of money.   

I do hope you never have anything like that contribute to your experience.



Thomas

[Kuna]

Kuna, you certainly have never driven across much of Russia. I went from one regional capital to another in Russia. Distance roughly 350 kilometers. It took us 10 hours!!!!! There were huge potholes and the maximum speed we could drive was 50-60 kilometers on nice stretches of road. It is nice to say that paying a bribe to a police officer is a "road tax" but the police won't use their bribes to resurface and pave roads. The lack of infrastructure then hinders business: it takes you twice as long to deliver goods as it should and you will be stuck with horrible roads and the "road tax" that your drivers will have to pay. This in the long run will sap your productivity and will leave everybody poorer. I for one prefer to to pay real road taxes and have decent roads.

gabaub,

We could probably all recite examples of "corruption" in FSU but my point is more about accepting a system for what it is rather than condemning it for being different.

If we are only comfortable with environments and "operating rules" that were identical to the ones we have at home the world would be a very boring place!

It's obvious that corruption and bribery exists but it's never been an issue for me whilst in FSU.  My Wife says at times (for the sake of expediency) you have to play the game but generally she despises bribery. 

To say bribery only slows everything down only ignores the basic things we have learned to tolerate at home.  Example:  resizing of wedding rings in Oz versus Ukraine.  Twenty minutes in Ukraine...  5 days in Oz.  If I could have paid a little extra to have our rings back sooner I would have happily paid but it wasn't possible - the damn jeweler wouldn't take a back-hander!   

My Wife sees that some things here in Oz are LESS efficient than in Urkaine because we've come to LOVE systems and processes.  In Ukraine things are a little more "random" it seems...   

Now...  Whilst we can criticise the bribery MANY Ukrainian individuals and companies are involved in tax avoidance and justify it by saying payment of real taxes will only go into the pockets of corrupt officials.  One might suggest that if proper taxes were paid more would find its way to public infrastructure.

You (and others like Ed) are only comfortable in your environments at home because you are conditioned to accept them.  Take road maintenance and construction as an example.  In Oz we always paid taxes to cover these costs but toll roads popped up because of government inefficiency.  My Wife thinks it's obscene to pay at a toll gate to use a road... and I agree - especially as I still pay a fuel tax, vehicle registrations and GST!

In my region governments started declining responsibility for basic utility installations (sewage, etc) and are passing these costs onto property developers who then pass the costs on to homeowners... (who are usually first home buyers).  Is this reasonable?  We accept it because it's the norm...

The use of our taxes is inefficient yet we continue to be "taxed" in new ways.  We might look at the poor state of infrastructure in FSU but we should acknowledge a lot of companies and individuals aren't paying the correct taxes.  Where does this argument start and stop?  I would suggest it doesn't... it just needs to be understood.

Conditions are different across the world and whilst we might criticise systems that "accept" individual corruption we have systems in our own countries that are far from perfect.

We can criticise it... and complain about it... and ridicule it... but maybe it's best to understand it and work within or around it!  ???

By the way... FSU aren't the only corrupt nations on earth but we as a community don't focus on them.  There's plenty of corruption (individual; and institutional) in our own countries but they have been "normalised" into "acceptable practices" over time.

I only suggest we avoid the complaining and scaremongering (which is just one tool used by those making money out of FSU dating) and spend more time understanding.

Kuna

[Misha]

We could probably all recite examples of "corruption" in FSU but my point is more about accepting a system for what it is rather than condemning it for being different.

Kuna

Kuna, how much time in total did you spend in the FSU? Do you really think that most people in the FSU like the corruption? It is easy being a cultural relativist when you are sitting in Australia or Canada and pine about the advantages of corruption when you don't have to put up with it on a regular basis.

[Eduard]

OK Shadow and Kuna, I can't take this any more!!!
I see the light!!!! Haleluya!!! I was blind but now I see!!!!
I'm telling my wife to pack the suitcases and we are moving back to Russia!!!!
Are you two happy now???? Gosh!!!!

[Kuna]

Kuna, how much time in total did you spend in the FSU? Do you really think that most people in the FSU like the corruption? It is easy being a cultural relativist when you are sitting in Australia or Canada and pine about the advantages of corruption when you don't have to put up with it on a regular basis.

I love that question...  because it catches me out every time...

It's true I wasn't a multi-trip failure so I've only been to Ukraine twice.  Maybe I haven't spent enough time in Ukraine because I'm actually looking forward to going back soon!   

Now... gabaub, where did I say most people liked the corruption?  I think it's more a case of them knowing it exists and using it when it suits them.  It's called survival, and is just like our taxes.  None of us like them but we pay up to ensure survival.

As for not putting up with "corruption" on a regular basis you're missing my point... 

It exists - just like some illogical things in our societies exist. Those things seem strange to our wives but if they reject them or struggle against them their integration in our countries will be much more difficult. 

Are you beginning to see the picture yet? 

You, Ed and some others can sit around pontificating about how bad things are in FSU (with corruption, etc) but maybe it's just because you're not flexible enough to understand it.  At the same time you expect wives to be flexible enough to accept the sh!tty stuff in our societies and throw out words of warnings  to men who have gf's or fiances who have similar attitudes to your own.

I'm saying it exists... accept it.. and learn how to work with it!

I've traveled enough and done enough business in some crazy situations to realise our level of success in many pursuits is dependent on our ability to adapt rather than our ability to complain.

Understand??? Good!   

Kuna

[Kuna]

Hopefully you are never poisoned by some bartender trying to make some extra cash by serving home made alcohol.  According to what you stated you can't blame the guy since he doesn't make a lot of money.   

I do hope you never have anything like that contribute to your experience.



Thomas

Thomas,

What makes you think it was the bartender and not the owner of the bar? 

I think it's probably more likely that the owner was substituting inferior product to increase profits rather than a bar tender...  Lots of pubs do that in western countries too.  Some even do it "legitimately" by making the house bourbon Cougar instead of the usual Jim Beam and charging the same like my local did recently. 

Of course everyone is going to still drink Beam but in effect he has just ripped us off by charging $1.20 more per drink instead of simply raising prices by 20 or 40 cents.

Kuna

OK Shadow and Kuna, I can't take this any more!!!
I see the light!!!! Haleluya!!! I was blind but now I see!!!!
I'm telling my wife to pack the suitcases and we are moving back to Russia!!!!
Are you two happy now???? Gosh!!!!

Cool.... I'm glad you've got a different perspective since becoming a member of RWD.  You're a quick learner... you'll go far!   

On a serious note... something that disturbs me about people like you (those that make money out of the business of marriage) is that they usually have one version of reality.. and that version correlates directly with their own business marketing.

The fact is you can come in here and make as many generalisations as you like but just like everywhere FSU is made up of individuals living within a unique culture (actually there are several cultures spread across FSU).  It might suit you to push the FUD about corruption and crime (because then men will NEED you for their trips to FSU - a similar scam to one attempted by my guide on my first trip) but the fact is it is not a normal feature of travel if someone is sensible and prudent.

Your earlier assertions about "the Roof" and the mafia's protection and manipulation of all businesses in FSU is another example of a wild generalisation. 

I've not yet done business in FSU and wouldn't do so without an appropriate partner but your "roof" might be a good excuse for a bad businessman who fails.  There's lots of westerners who've failed when doing business in China too - and many times they'll also blame corruption rather than their poor understanding of Chinese business culture.

btw...  My BIL is and has been a very successful businessman in Russia and the concept of mafia manipulation has never come up in our conversations (we talk often and have become genuine friends). 

Maybe it'll come up in future if (and when) I do business with (and through) him...  and if it does I'll make sure he contact you for advice because you're SO well informed and SO well intentioned he's sure to need your help!   

Please accept this from me with my blessings... 

Kuna

[Eduard]

Hey Eduard- I got a couple of questions for you-

How did you end up coming to this country and staying here? Professional interest awakens my curiosity.

How often do you return to your old country? Again, professional interest speaks.

I came here in 1979 as a political refugee (refugee parolee status, and yes, Brezhnev was still the president!!!) and became an American citizen in 1984.
I go back several times a year whenever I have a client who wants me to travel there with him to help with translation, finding inexpensive apartments instead of paying crazy prices for hotel rooms, and to be able to freely communicate and get to know the ladies that I had helped them find and get to know on line first, before the trip..
They find my services particularly helpful, because since I've lived in the USA for so long I don't just speak regular english but can enterpret their sense of humor, figure of speach, slang, jokes - things that can not be translated rather need to be enterpreted to really understand the meaning. I noticed that most professional translators in Russia don't have a grasp of American slang that we use here all the time. A funny example:
remember the Black eyed peas song where the lyrics go: "She's got a lot of junk in her trunk!" Well I can pretty much guarantee that a Russian translator will enterpret it literally - that she's got a lot of garbage in the trunk of her car...when in fact that means that "she's got a big butt"  
This is just a funny example, but if you think about it we use a lot of slang here. By the way Russians also use a lot of slang and I'm well familiar with both.
When I'm in Russia I watch some TV here and there before going to sleep. 50 or more percent of their TV programming are American movies and shows but dubbed to Russian.
Sometimes it is really funny to hear how those professional translators who dub movies enterpret American slang - usually it's way off like my junk in the trunk example. Even the movie titles are totally missenterpreted sometimes!
So there is a lot of room for missunderstanding and my clients appreciate very much my fluency in both languages and cultures. I noticed that sometimes when my client meets with a girl that speaks english and they communicate with each other in front of me he'll make a joke or say something totally innocent sounding in english, but it sounds offensive when translated literally, word for word to Russian. When I see a girl's facial expression change I jump in and explain to her that this is just a figure of speach and in fact a compliment. I'm sure that many of you who are married to Russian women had those uncomfortable situations...am I right?

[Eduard]

Kuna,
you don't read well. The 2 people that I know who lost their businesses to their own "Roof"  were actually too successful, and that's why the Roof took the businesses away from them, not because they were failing.
Also I really don't  understand what's the deal with you attacking me for saying that I love USA and would much rather live here than in Russia???
Why the heck don't you go and live in Russia or Ukraine and enjoy it and leave me be?

[William3rd]

Part of the Russian Jewish wave of emigre, I presume. Naturalized at the 5 year mark after getting the green card. . .

Hate to tell you this but I never listened to black eyed peas enough to know their lyrics and I would have have never known about junk in the trunk referring to a large ass but I speak Western Socal so maybe that is why I wouldnt have caught it.

Enjoy your stay. . . . .

[LiveFromUkraine]

Thomas,

What makes you think it was the bartender and not the owner of the bar? 

I think it's probably more likely that the owner was substituting inferior product to increase profits rather than a bar tender...  Lots of pubs do that in western countries too.  Some even do it "legitimately" by making the house bourbon Cougar instead of the usual Jim Beam and charging the same like my local did recently. 

Of course everyone is going to still drink Beam but in effect he has just ripped us off by charging $1.20 more per drink instead of simply raising prices by 20 or 40 cents.

Kuna

Yes, it could have been the owner but doubtful.  I found out aftewards that my wife's cousins knows a bartender there that does it.  Of course they never told me about this stuff until after the fact.  It is pretty widely known that some bartenders do this type of stuff.  I don't see much of quality control from a employee stand point.  No one really monitors their workers from the places I have frequented.


Yes, this stuff could happen anywhere but the reprecussions are far greater when dealing with insurance and law suits.  There is a lot more to lose and much harder to bribe your way out of a bad situation like poisoning customers.  This isn't a legitimate product but a house made product that could kill someone.  My wife, her brother and I was sick for 5 days afterwards.


You have an interesting perspective on the bribing.  It in fact does slow things down.  Why?  The people that are paying the bribes get the jobs done right away keeping the people waiting in lines..well waiting.  Not only that, but people make it extremely difficult to get anything done trying to get you to pay them a bribe to speed up the process.  It should never have taken my wife a year to get her college diploma, especially since she got it the very next day she bribed them.  If that isn't slow than I don't know what is mate.


Sure you can adapt and I have done that.  I know when someone tells me a price to expect it to increase the minute I walk in the door.  I know I will be waiting in line for days unless I find the right person to pay a bribe.  I expect to pay a bribe to get my wife's passport changed over to her new surname since it has been almost 6 weeks because they are out of "paper".  A lot of people don't have the extra money to pay bribes and must continue to take it in the preverbial a$$.


No doubt we have problems in the western world.  But I have to say it is much better than what I have experienced here and it has made me appreciate it a lot more.  I am glad for my experiences and hopefully I have changed for the better because of them.  


Thomas

[Kuna]

Kuna,
you don't read well. The 2 people that I know who lost their businesses to their own "Roof"  were actually too successful, and that's why the Roof took the businesses away from them, not because they were failing.
Also I really don't  understand what's the deal with you attacking me for saying that I love USA and would much rather live here than in Russia???
Why the heck don't you go and live in Russia or Ukraine and enjoy it and leave me be?

Quite the contrary... I do read well and I'm perceptive enough to spot a little BS when I read it!

1. Your stories about "the roof" are generalisations that are similar to those used to support the business of marriage agencies/guides/helpers. It's all about Fear Uncertainty and Doubt.. FUD!

I'll admit you're not yet a heavy salesman like others we've seen (and met) but I have a dislike for generalisations when they are stated to support money generation in this business.

Your example suggests ALL businesses in FSU are interfered with by "the mafia" – and that's not true is it?  I assume some have had issues but a general warning is not appropriate. Don’t you agree?

2. I'm not attacking you... I'm disputing some of the things you're saying.  There is a difference. 

If you choose to live in the US as opposed to Russia that is a personal decision you make... and one that most would make.  I still don’t think you're FUD isn’t fair and reasonable.

As you’re a Russian American I would hope you would be able to provide a mature view of reality in FSU including the beauty in the history, art and culture of Russia.  What makes the people tick?  RW are different?  Why and how?

I think too many men go to FSU on a “wife hunt”, are cared for by “scare mongers” and too few ever develop an appreciation of their RW’s sole, character and spirit. Those things are among the many things I see as beautiful in FSU.

We say RW are “different”... WHY?  Maybe you could explain this to us in terms that no one else here could.  Instead you have focused on the corruption and crime...  the things that make it so unsafe for men to travel without “protection”. wink

3. I may very well live in Russia or Ukraine in future but it's more likely my family will always call Australia home.  My family immigrated from Ukraine (and Germany) in 1947 so I have some limited experience with Ukes.  Even though we're likely to remain in Oz I STILL think your generalisations about Russia are unhelpful - and therefore I pointed it out.

Whilst you may not like your former homeland I just don’t like perpetuating the BS going on about all of the bad things with no acknowledgment of the wonderful things. 

One might think the only good thing in FSU is the women (Agency marketing) but even in my limited experience I know there are many wonderful aspects to Ukraine – even when compared to our nice comfortable lives in Australia and the USA.

The biggest failing in this journey is a lack of understanding... and I hope you can help others understand rather than the approach taken thus far.

Kuna

[Kuna]

Yes, it could have been the owner but doubtful.  I found out aftewards that my wife's cousins knows a bartender there that does it.  Of course they never told me about this stuff until after the fact.  It is pretty widely known that some bartenders do this type of stuff.  I don't see much of quality control from a employee stand point.  No one really monitors their workers from the places I have frequented.


Yes, this stuff could happen anywhere but the reprecussions are far greater when dealing with insurance and law suits.  There is a lot more to lose and much harder to bribe your way out of a bad situation like poisoning customers.  This isn't a legitimate product but a house made product that could kill someone.  My wife, her brother and I was sick for 5 days afterwards.


You have an interesting perspective on the bribing.  It in fact does slow things down.  Why?  The people that are paying the bribes get the jobs done right away keeping the people waiting in lines..well waiting.  Not only that, but people make it extremely difficult to get anything done trying to get you to pay them a bribe to speed up the process.  It should never have taken my wife a year to get her college diploma, especially since she got it the very next day she bribed them.  If that isn't slow than I don't know what is mate.


Sure you can adapt and I have done that.  I know when someone tells me a price to expect it to increase the minute I walk in the door.  I know I will be waiting in line for days unless I find the right person to pay a bribe.  I expect to pay a bribe to get my wife's passport changed over to her new surname since it has been almost 6 weeks because they are out of "paper".  A lot of people don't have the extra money to pay bribes and must continue to take it in the preverbial a$$.


No doubt we have problems in the western world.  But I have to say it is much better than what I have experienced here and it has made me appreciate it a lot more.  I am glad for my experiences and hopefully I have changed for the better because of them. 


Thomas

Thomas,

I don't know your personal situation but I have some questions:

If your wife works does she pay the appropriate amount of tax she is supposed to pay?

How about her employer?

How about your friends there?  Do they all pay the legal amount of tax?

How about you?  Are you aware of and complying with your personal and business tax obligations in Ukraine?

How about your visa?  Are you complying with the visa laws precisely or are you using loopholes to stay in Ukraine?

My point is this... I'm amazed that many people will cry about bribes and complain about conditions yet when it suits them they are just as guilty as those that accept (or demand) bribes.

I don't support corruption - but I have a dislike for these ongoing discussions about it when the reality is distorted and the truth is always made to "fit".

I've done enough business in some crazy places to know strange things can and do happen - ALL THE TIME!

Kuna

[BillyB]

Corruption exist in all nations but some places are just more corrupt than others lowering the quality of life for it's citizens. If possible, people vote with their feet and one way to gauge the quality of a nation, compare the amount of people coming to the people leaving. Where I live, there are tens of thousands of FSU citizens and from around a 50 I've spoken to, they don't want to go back home.

[Kuna]

Corruption exist in all nations but some places are just more corrupt than others lowering the quality of life for it's citizens. If possible, people vote with their feet and one way to gauge the quality of a nation, compare the amount of people coming to the people leaving. Where I live, there are tens of thousands of FSU citizens and from around a 50 I've spoken to, they don't want to go back home.

All because of corruption??

Maybe Quality of Life, Standard of Living, crime and personal safety, the climate, etc has something to do with it?

I just reckon the corruption thing is blown out of perspective by a few people who seem to have little else to add.

[Misha]

All because of corruption??

Maybe Quality of Life, Standard of Living, crime and personal safety, the climate, etc has something to do with it?

I just reckon the corruption thing is blown out of perspective by a few people who seem to have little else to add.

Kuna, what exactly is the basis of your argument. You spent a few weeks in the FSU and you are now the expert?!? Can't you see the link between corruption and quality of life and standard of living? The equation is quite simple: any country with high corruption will have a lower standard of living and a lower quality of life. Why? Quite simple. If you are stealing from the company or the population, you are not investing into productivity. This, in the long run saps the economic strength of any economy. It does not take a PhD in economics to figure that out.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Thomas,

I don't know your personal situation but I have some questions:

If your wife works does she pay the appropriate amount of tax she is supposed to pay?

How about her employer?

How about your friends there?  Do they all pay the legal amount of tax?

How about you?  Are you aware of and complying with your personal and business tax obligations in Ukraine?

How about your visa?  Are you complying with the visa laws precisely or are you using loopholes to stay in Ukraine?

My point is this... I'm amazed that many people will cry about bribes and complain about conditions yet when it suits them they are just as guilty as those that accept (or demand) bribes.

I don't support corruption - but I have a dislike for these ongoing discussions about it when the reality is distorted and the truth is always made to "fit".

I've done enough business in some crazy places to know strange things can and do happen - ALL THE TIME!

Kuna

I guess we should clarify different situations.


If we are talking about police trying to squeeze bribes out of you than that is a major problem.  They have been known to beat people and also pin crimes on them.  That is why it was incredibly dangerious for me when I was taken by the police and my BIL had to give up his phone.  If that happened to you would you say it is just Ukraine or would you have a minor problem with it?


I do think that certain governmental processes are made slow in order to acquire bribes.  I have paid bribes myself and will probably continue to do so.  It is a matter of life here and there is nothing that can be done.  That is why the majority of people here would love a govnernment job.  From my experience here, it does slow things down considerably which was what I was commenting on in your post.  Now I don't know about your experiences, you have a little in Ukraine but may have comparable in other countries, but people need to take off days of work to get simple things done when dealing with anything government related.  The people that bribe go to the head of the line making others wait even longer.  


I don't do business here in Ukraine so no taxes are required.  I was about to but India is calling me.  
I do know most people are not paying taxes on all of their income here.  I bet most of those extra income goes to bribes.  


You are correct in one thing you stated.  There are both pros and cons to any system.  You can work the system to your advantage if you have enough money.  Most people here do not and it hurts them the most.  Other situations make you a target.  You are a target for money when you come to these types of places.  You have no rights and they can do practically anything they want if you do indeed become a target.


You can recon that the corruption is blow out of proportion if you like.  You may think people here have nothing to add since they don't agree with your limited experiences in Ukraine.  I would say they have more to add than you do because of their experiences.


Edited: If you don't mind Kuna, how long have you lived in those crazy places you have done business.  I am sure they were crazy but I am interested in how long you had to endure them.



Thomas  

[USCFAN]

... man, this thread really flew off the tracks ...

Welcome Eduard ... I enjoyed your 'clips' if for no other reason as a visual reminder of what it is like to walk the streets over there and see so many absolutely beautiful women. Man, I gotta get back over there

[I/O]

I just reckon the corruption thing is blown out of perspective by a few people

Kuna: I am not interested in other undercurrents running in this thread, but I will take this point up for a moment. Personally I have never had any much trouble to speak of, BUT corruption infects everything that happens in Russia at every level of business and lifestyle. Pity, but that is how it is and even now, having seen all that I have, my wife opened my eyes a few days ago when relating a story of two friends of hers who set up cosmetics shops in modern shopping centres.

One paid the "Umbrella" and one didn't. Both went to work the next day and one traded as normal whilst the other walked into the smoking burned out ruins of what was left. You figure it out but it is a lot more widespread than the visitor can possibly realise at first. No point calling the police if the next person is paying more than you are. Can't speak for Ukraine to any great extent, but the couple of visits I have had revealed much the same, no difference in Moldova, Latvia, Belarus and so on and in some places worse, so I dunno, but regardless of whatever agenda Eduard might be pushing, I think he is close to the mark on this one.

I/O

[Kuna]

Kuna, what exactly is the basis of your argument. You spent a few weeks in the FSU and you are now the expert?!? Can't you see the link between corruption and quality of life and standard of living? The equation is quite simple: any country with high corruption will have a lower standard of living and a lower quality of life. Why? Quite simple. If you are stealing from the company or the population, you are not investing into productivity. This, in the long run saps the economic strength of any economy. It does not take a PhD in economics to figure that out.

A little common sense developed doing business in countries just as corrupt as Ukraine is the basis of my argument.

gabaub,

Have I said I am an expert???  Please tell me where?  If not... stop getting so emotional!   

Your problem is that you don't like anyone providing a different perspective when you're too blind and or too stubborn to acknowledge anything different from your own narrow ideals.

The thing that really gets me about some of you blokes is that you feel you've acquired some great credibility from many trips to FSU (I don't know or don't remember much or your story gabaub) yet you're still too damn blind to see or accept anything different than you're nice little existence at home.

If you want to see a thriving corrupt economy go to China!  Do you have any answer to that??? Seems like your theory just exploded!

I repeat... I'm not in support of corruption but it exists, I acknowledge it... and I am saying - YOU have to deal with it as best as you can - just like the locals do.  There's no point continually complaining about it just like there's no point continually complaining about taxes in the west!

Kuna

[LiveFromUkraine]

If you want to see a thriving corrupt economy go to China!  Do you have any answer to that??? Seems like your theory just exploded!

Good point Kuna.  Does it take any longer to do business in China compared to other less corrupt countries?
I would also like your opinion on the living standards there.  Do you think if there was less corruption than the distribution of wealth would have increased the standard of living for everyone?

I hate that we have taken over Eduards' thread but this is an interesting topic.


Edited: I think living here, in Ukraine, for the past 10 months gives me a little credibility. 


Thomas

[Misha]

Your problem is that you don't like anyone providing a different perspective when you're too blind and or too stubborn to acknowledge anything different from your own narrow ideals.

The thing that really gets me about some of you blokes is that you feel you've acquired some great credibility from many trips to FSU (I don't know or don't remember much or your story gabaub) yet you're still too damn blind to see or accept anything different than you're nice little existence at home.

If you want to see a thriving corrupt economy go to China!  Do you have any answer to that??? Seems like your theory just exploded!

I repeat... I'm not in support of corruption but it exists, I acknowledge it... and I am saying - YOU have to deal with it as best as you can - just like the locals do. 

Well, in the past 10 years, I have spent close to 4 years in Russia and the FSU. I know the existence in Russia pretty well, thank you very much. And, yes, I have a pretty nice existence at home. I prefer a country that is not bereft with corruption, a country where my ability to get medical care or equal access to an education is not based on my ability to bribe. I also prefer a country where I do not have to pay a bribe to get government services that should be free.

As for China, it is still a developing country, and in terms of GNP per capita it still has quite a long way to go. Corruption will certainly hinder its ability to catch up with the developed countries. Also, if we look at some of the problems that we have seen in China's production (i.e. toys contaminated with lead paint), I would certainly point to these problems as an indicator of the challenges that China faces.

[Misha]

Kuna, just for you, an editorial from the Taipei Times. According to them: "A compelling new report says that runaway corruption in China poses a lethal threat to the nation's economic development and 'undermines the legitimacy of the ruling Chinese Communist Party.'" The editorial continues by stating: "Pei is not alone in assessing corruption in China. George Zhibin Gu, an investment banker who was educated at Nanjing University and earned a doctorate at the University of Michigan, has suggested that corruption may destroy China's economy, which has been growing at 8 percent to 10 percent a year. In the West, a 3 percent growth rate is respectable." (source: http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/editorials/archives/2007/11/27/2003390101).

Simply put, corruption will eventually catch up to China and will sap its economic growth. Corruption along with the political repression hinder long-term economic development: the economies that do best in the long run are those where all ideas can be exchanged freely without undue state supervision.

[Simoni]

I just reckon the corruption thing is blown out of perspective by a few people who seem to have little else to add.

Actually, it is a big problem. Honestly, I think Gator had A LOT to add with this quote.

Any form of corruption is bad.  When it is insidious as in Russia, it undermines good government, justice, economic opportunity, personal integrity, progress, etc. 

For those acknowledging the need for police to supplement their salaries, corruption influences policemen to not patrol the places where needed by society but instead set up shop in places where it is easier to collect bribes.

I once spoke to a vacationing police chief from a city in Ukraine.  His primary interest was not fighting crime.

Gator nailed it.  Corruption is rampant, and very bad in the fsu. 

I think Gator and others had "a lot to add."  And it's all part of the big picture as we discuss Russia.

[Gator]

Eduard (and to other newcomers),

You are new here and do not know the history.  I respect Kuna very much, although at times he can be strong in his convictions.   Kuna approached this endeavor in a careful and savvy manner.  He did well, very well indeed.  His trip report is the best example of "How To" that I have read (or recall, considering my age) over 5+ years. 

Kuna is self-assured.  He navigated himself through the FSU on his own without any major problems.  His largest problem happened with a guide.  His guide had been recommended by several RWD members, yet Kuna found himself being grossly overcharged for average if not unnecessary service. 

Perhaps Kuna's guide was hearing about everyone making money in Ukraine and he decided to increase his rates, with Kuna being his first client for his new rate structure.   The guide, of course, explained to Kuna that a man needs protection from all the scams and crime and confusion in Ukraine. 

When Kuna reported his guide experience, a number of RWD members defended the guide.  Yes, it escalated into a very spirited argument.  You have noticed that Kuna speaks his mind.  So when your explanation for needing a guide is the same as what Kuna's guide said, it probably hit a nerve.

In my 20 trips to Russia and Ukraine, I have always gone alone and have never needed a guide.  The women I met have been my guides, and that made the experience even better.  While you are a handsome man Eduard, you ain't my type. 

Yes, I have had a moments of confusion, but all were short-lived.   Can every man do that?  I doubt it because I have a great amount of international experience, once having traveled freelance by bus to Afghanistan with a friend.

A novice can possibly get into trouble in the FSU.  Nevertheless, I feel that the greatest trouble, other than getting fleeced by an insincere pretty woman, is  missing a transport connection, getting lost when walking around, ordering food one would not prefer, not knowing how to work the payphone, taking a long time to change travel arrangements, contacting a date, or overpaying for roses.  Are those serious?  Not to me, and resolving them is part of experiencing the culture. 

I say the largest benefit of a guide such as yourself is in time management.  Most men have limited time to travel and should not waste any of it.  For example,  if a man is on a power dating trip, I think you would help immensely in getting many dates in with less downtime.  Women change their plans, the train is late, the woman does not meet you on time, etc. would require someone with your skills to adjust the plan immediately.

BTW, welcome to RWD.  I too reside in Tampa; however, I have no woman (one is coming, dependnt upon how fast the mail works).

 

 

[Eduard]

One good thing I will say about my FSU experience is that there is a true treasure there - and it is the women. I've never seen anywhere in my travels the same concentration of gorgeous women as in Russia and Ukraine. Not only they are gorgeous in looks, but unlike feminist western women they are more feminine, and just a pleasure to deal with (in general off course...you meet all kinds in life but I'm talking majority here).
One last responce to Kuna, and then I'm just going to ignore his ignorrant remarks and let his experience in the FSU (if he ever gets to live there for a longer stretch of time) teach him a lesson or two. You know what they say in Russia: "a wise man will learn from the mistakes and experience of others, and a man who is not very smart will learn on his own mistakes and experience"  
It is very obvious to me that people who actually lived in Russia are one side of this debate, and the 2 people who don't have any personal experience of living in Russia on the other ( I don't consider a couple of weeks visit a living experience). This just doesn't make sense and I'm not going to waste my time responding to people like Kuna.   it's like talking to the wall...
He is also accusing me of making money off Russia and critisizing it like it's something imoral. First of all this is only one of my 3 sources of income. And another thing no one in Russia pays for my services. It's the other way around actually - Russia gets me to pay them money for my visa every time I go there and all other expences. My money comes from my clients in the west who need help avoiding scam artists, insincere women and gold diggers. Who need somebody to help them to get to know the women without any language barrier, help them save money on hotels, transportation, cel phones and many other things when travelling to Russia. Men, who unlike you, understand how valueble my experience and knowledge of the language and culture are. I didn't get into matchmaking business for money originally. I was single and very frustrated with the dating situation and American women here, where I live. So I decided to look in the old country. I found, brought here and married my wife. Then I helped a couple of my buddies do the same, for free by the way! Only then they both said that my expertise is very valuable and I should help other single men who are tired of and frustrated with American women find their happiness with a beautiful lady from the FSU. So to me it's not just a cold business situation, but I'm on the mission to help western men and lonely Russian women who are having a very hard time finding a good, family oriented Russian guy find each other, get to know each other, get married and live happily ever after.
A large number of Russian/American marriages end up in a divorce when men go the traditional "agency route". I'm happy to report that all the couples I helped get together are very happy together and so far it's been a 100% success rate for me.
So good bye Kuna. I will only talk to you after you had lived in Russia for at least a couple of years and can actually say something based on experience rather then argue for the sake of arguing. Right now i feel that talking to you is like talking to the wall