Ask me, I've done it! and have been married for 3 years happily!

[Eduard]

I'am surprised that no one has discussed an option that I mentioned awhile back.  If you travel to the vacation areas of the FSu in the summer, you would have unlimited options.  I saw the possibilities during one summer I spent in Sudak, a resort on the Black Sea.  There are literally millions of single women who flock to the resort areas from all over the FSU in the summer.  During the day they are at the beach and in the nightclubs in the evenings.  If you're into the physical aspects, you could spend the day at the beach and, after you have picked your jaw up from off the sand, you could approach any woman who appears to be unattached.  In the evenings, the nightclubs are packed with a higher ratio of women to men.  The nice thing about all of this is that, because they are on vacation, they don't have any obligations to get in the way of spending time with you if they choose.  They are also more open to casual meetings. They already have their own room rented, so if things don't work out, you both go your own ways with no further expectations.  You could casually meet several women every day and if you hit it off with one, you have the rest of their vacation to spend together and can make arrangements to write each other and possibly visit her in her home city on your next visit.
     Of course there are some disadvantages, for example you are not seeing her in her home environment, but as far as meeting a lot of women in a short time, you can't beat it.

Scott, actually it's a great venue to meet women! If I were single I would probably have a ball there! The only big issue that I see is the language barrier. you most likely will score with some women and have a wonderful unforgetible night with one or 2 but unless you meet one  that you really like and that also happens to speaks fluent english (highly unlikely!) or you learn to speak fluent Russian before making the trip (very likely! yeah, right...) how are you going to take it to the next step and actually get to know each other.
I totally see how this would work if you just want to go, have a good time and get some...but I still think that if marriage is on your mind, it would be best to get to know a few women on line first, without distructions find out each others values, interests, goals, about your families, things that really matter when you are looking to build future with somebody.
Only then i would recomend traveling to Russia to meet face to face and see who you will have the best chemistry with. Does that make sense?

[Admin]

Eduard,

I stopped over at your site today and noticed something. You state:

The only reason that they [RW] are single and looking is because of those statistics - 1 guy for every 8 girls!

Would you be kind enough to produce the source of "those statistics"?

Thanks,

- Dan

[Eduard]

Dan,
I saw those stats a couple of years ago when I was doing research. I can't remember the source now. Anyone who has been to Russia can tell that there are a lot more women than men anywhere you go. And that is the main reason why some Russian women would be open to marrying a foreigner. Do you have a different statistic? I also read that there are 10 women to every 11 men available in the US and I can't remember where I saw that either. If you have better more up to date stats please post them, but I don't think anyone would dispute that there are more single men than women here in the US and more single women than men in Russia. That is probably the main reason this East-West connection is taking place.

[Admin]

Dan,
I saw those stats a couple of years ago when I was doing research. I can't remember the source now. Anyone who has been to Russia can tell that there are a lot more women than men anywhere you go. And that is the main reason why some Russian women would be open to marrying a foreigner. Do you have a different statistic? I also read that there are 10 women to every 11 men available in the US and I can't remember where I saw that either. If you have better more up to date stats please post them, but I don't think anyone would dispute that there are more single men than women here in the US and more single women than men in Russia. That is probably the main reason this East-West connection is taking place.

Eduard,

You can take a stroll through the search function here at RWD. Look for 'statistics' posted by Bruno and other members. I think you will find more than a few legitimate statistical studies that will serve to undermine your claims. Of course, that is really not very difficult. The kind of hype that you are spewing is obviously intended for the desperate or the addled.

Out of curiosity, if when you find some real statistics, are you going to change your site to reflect them?

- Dan

[BillyB]

Ed, in a nutshell, FSU men and women in their 20's and 30's are at a 1 to 1 ratio. Only later on do men die off much quicker. The exess women the FSU have to offer for marriage because there are not enough men in their age group are basically Babushkas.

It may seem that women outnumber men 8 to 1 in the FSU because when we're there, all we're looking at is women.

[Eduard]

If the ratio of men to women in Russia is 1:1 why in the world would any normal woman who loves her family, friends and culture want to marry a foreigner and move somewhere far away??? It doesn't make any sense, I'm sorry.

[Admin]

If the ratio of men to women in Russia is 1:1 why in the world would any normal woman who loves her family, friends and culture want to marry a foreigner and move somewhere far away??? It doesn't make any sense, I'm sorry.

That's a very good question.

Once again - if you are confronted with statistical evidence to disprove your claims, are you prepared to change your claims on your website?

- Dan

[BillyB]

If the ratio of men to women in Russia is 1:1 why in the world would any normal woman who loves her family, friends and culture want to marry a foreigner and move somewhere far away??? It doesn't make any sense, I'm sorry.

A million reasons and motives for women to marry a foreigner besides a lack of men available. I'm going to make your search a little easier. In the younger years, including prime marrying years for women, it is about a 1 to 1 ratio and notice more males are actually born than females in the FSU.

http://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/rs.html

0-14 years: 14.6% (male 10,563,567/female 10,021,316)
15-64 years: 71.1% (male 48,412,612/female 52,061,604)
65 years and over: 14.4% (male 6,360,038/female 13,958,615) (2007 est.)

at birth: 1.06 male(s)/female
under 15 years: 1.054 male(s)/female
15-64 years: 0.93 male(s)/female
65 years and over: 0.456 male(s)/female
total population: 0.859 male(s)/female (2007 est.)

[Admin]

And to reinforce the point, sometime back Vaughn posted this -- http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=2584.msg49087#msg49087 which includes a graphic prepared from statistics gathered by a Russian source.

None of those statistics reflect anything close to an 8 to 1 ratio. For that matter, can you imagine the natural conditions which would have to occur to REALLY see an 8 to 1 ratio?!? Those numbers are so ludicrous as to be totally unbelievable.

So Eduard, will you change the hype on your site?

- Dan

[Eduard]

And to reinforce the point, sometime back Vaughn posted this -- http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=2584.msg49087#msg49087 which includes a graphic prepared from statistics gathered by a Russian source.

None of those statistics reflect anything close to an 8 to 1 ratio. For that matter, can you imagine the natural conditions which would have to occur to REALLY see an 8 to 1 ratio?!? Those numbers are so ludicrous as to be totally unbelievable.

So Eduard, will you change the hype on your site?

- Dan

Dan,
I wonder why you are in such hurry to make me look like some kind of evil dude pushing crack to small children???
I was just studying different threads with the keyword "statistics" in them.
These are the posts I found on the same thread that you are referring to here:

Vaughn
Full Member

 Offline

Gender:
Status: Married 3-5 years
Times to FSU: 4 - 10
Her Country: Russia
Posts: 831


Married Feb 2003

   Re: RW Demographics
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2006, 07:07:26 PM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Speaking only for my wife's hometown of Yoshkar-Ola, there seems
to be a greater number of females, particularly of marriageable age.
We attended what would have been my stepdaughter's graduation -
her class included 18 girls but only 4 boys - two other classes were
similarly disproportionate - and according to my wife, who taught in
that school system for a decade, the lobsidedness is common.

  I once asked my stepdaughter why so many young ladies marry at
a tender age over there. Her reply was instantaneous: "Because there
are so few men, and there's haste to grab the best available before
another does." That's the mindset: you snooze, you lose.

Russophile
Member

 Offline

Posts: 27


 

   RW Demographics
« on: September 03, 2006, 05:54:37 PM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In a previous thread, I made this statement:


Quote
“There is a tremendous shortage of husband material in the FSU.  Anyone looking at the statistics will easily see that millions of otherwise deserving RW will never have the opportunity to experience marriage, family and children in their own country.”

Some of you objected strongly to such a statement so I will give you the figures

Russia 2002 census
Source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w...of_Russia#Population_data

Population: 145 million
Age 15-64  .94 male/female (a 6% excess of females)
6% of 145 million is 8.7 million females in the country for which there is not a corresponding male.

Ukraine 2001 census
Source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w...rainian_Census_%282001%29

Population: 48,457,000
46.3% male
53.7% female  (a 7.4% differential)
7.4% of 48,457,000 is 3.5 million excess females.

Lets round the numbers and say that in the two countries there is a combined total of  about 12 million excess females.

I will make a real conservative estimate and say that 10% of these excess females are of marriageable age (20-50) and have never been married.  That gives us 1.2 million RW who don’t have a snowball’s chance in hell of finding a traditional Russian man to create a family with children.

And having had the blessings and sorrows of two marriages and many children,  I say, without apology, that these statistics make me sad.


 

[Admin]

Dan,
I wonder why you are in such hurry to make me look like some kind of evil dude pushing crack to small children???
I was just studying different threads with the keyword "statistics" in them.
These are the posts I found on the same thread that you are referring to here:

Vaughn
Full Member

 Offline

Gender:
Status: Married 3-5 years
Times to FSU: 4 - 10
Her Country: Russia
Posts: 831


Married Feb 2003

   Re: RW Demographics
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2006, 07:07:26 PM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Speaking only for my wife's hometown of Yoshkar-Ola, there seems
to be a greater number of females, particularly of marriageable age.
We attended what would have been my stepdaughter's graduation -
her class included 18 girls but only 4 boys - two other classes were
similarly disproportionate - and according to my wife, who taught in
that school system for a decade, the lobsidedness is common.

  I once asked my stepdaughter why so many young ladies marry at
a tender age over there. Her reply was instantaneous: "Because there
are so few men, and there's haste to grab the best available before
another does." That's the mindset: you snooze, you lose.

Russophile
Member

 Offline

Posts: 27


 

   RW Demographics
« on: September 03, 2006, 05:54:37 PM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In a previous thread, I made this statement:


Quote
“There is a tremendous shortage of husband material in the FSU.  Anyone looking at the statistics will easily see that millions of otherwise deserving RW will never have the opportunity to experience marriage, family and children in their own country.”

Some of you objected strongly to such a statement so I will give you the figures

Russia 2002 census
Source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w...of_Russia#Population_data

Population: 145 million
Age 15-64  .94 male/female (a 6% excess of females)
6% of 145 million is 8.7 million females in the country for which there is not a corresponding male.

Ukraine 2001 census
Source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w...rainian_Census_%282001%29

Population: 48,457,000
46.3% male
53.7% female  (a 7.4% differential)
7.4% of 48,457,000 is 3.5 million excess females.

Lets round the numbers and say that in the two countries there is a combined total of  about 12 million excess females.

I will make a real conservative estimate and say that 10% of these excess females are of marriageable age (20-50) and have never been married.  That gives us 1.2 million RW who don’t have a snowball’s chance in hell of finding a traditional Russian man to create a family with children.

And having had the blessings and sorrows of two marriages and many children,  I say, without apology, that these statistics make me sad.


 

Eduard,

I asked a simple question. I wanted to know the source of the statistics you referenced on your site. You went on to state that your belief in that statistic is a central theme of RW motivation for seeking international relationships. I challenge that - both the stats and the attribution of motivations. You would not know it, but I would guess that just about anyone who visits here and makes claims of statistical support for their POV finds a significant challenge ahead of them.

The stat you cite has no possible basis in fact. Therefore, it begs the simple question - what is YOUR motivation for making such an outlandish claim?

You have now been presented with legitimate statistical studies which serve to debunk the claim you make on your site. Are you prepared to change the claims you make on your site now that you know the truth?

It was all a simple question - or series of them.

- Dan

[Eduard]

If you add to those stats of available men to women ratio:
1. men who are not interested in marriage and who are quite happy just playing women, having 4-5 girlfriends at a time
2. men who are alcoholics
3. men who are abusive both mentally and physically
the ratio begins to look exactly like what I claim it to be on my site.
On top of that I've been to Russia many time since 2000 and it's so obvious!
Anywhere you go (unless you visit the army baracks or a soccer team locker room)
you see women in overwhelming majority.
I firmly believe that these diproportional numbers is the only reason that WM have a chance to meet and marry these beautiful women from Russia. If the numbers were 1:1 as Billy claims I think this forum wouldn't even exist.
From everything I know about Russian women and Russian culture (and it is my culture so I propose that I know a lot!) I can tell you that other than some occasional WM+RW marriages like they happen anywhere else ( i.e. An english guy marrying an Italian woman) the vast majority of RW would be marrying RM, staying in their country that they love, staying close to their family, friends.
The only reason that Russia and Ukraine became a Mecca for the aging WM who can't find a younger, beautiful woman who would be interested in them in their own country, is because there are so few available RM. This is the truth. And if you don't believe me go to some Russian women's forums and get an oppinion.

[BillyB]

46.3% male
53.7% female  (a 7.4% differential)

Ed, I believe those numbers but they are still closer to 1 to 1 ratio than 2 to 1. One will only approach a 2 to 1 ratio of females to males if they look at women 65 and older. Most of the available women without a man to marry are Babushkas who are probably widows and that is why there are more women than men in the FSU. The men die off earlier. For the younger generation, everyone has someone to marry. They may have a hard time finding him/her but she/he's out there.

[Daveman]

...the vast majority of RW would be marrying RM, staying in their country that they love, staying close to their family, friends...

That's exactly what they do.. only a minuscule percentage actually marry a westerner

The only reason that Russia and Ukraine became a Mecca for the aging WM who can't find a younger, beautiful woman who would be interested in them in their own country, is because there are so few available RM. This is the truth. And if you don't believe me go to some Russian women's forums and get an oppinion.

an opinion is not a statistic backed by a verifiable demographic and sample. 

That 8 to 1 ratio is just bizarrely absurd...  Gullible's Travels ... a great name for a new business endeavor. 

[BillyB]

Ed, you will find here that men ages 18-35 outnumber women 18-35 in Russia. At age 36, women begin to outnumber men. If you just look at men and women age 70, you will find there are more than 400,000 women over men alone at that age.

http://www.geocities.com/protopop_1999/pyra.html

[Admin]

If you add to those stats of available men to women ratio:
1. men who are not interested in marriage and who are quite happy just playing women, having 4-5 girlfriends at a time
2. men who are alcoholics
3. men who are abusive both mentally and physically
the ratio begins to look exactly like what I claim it to be on my site.
On top of that I've been to Russia many time since 2000 and it's so obvious!
Anywhere you go (unless you visit the army baracks or a soccer team locker room)
you see women in overwhelming majority.
I firmly believe that these diproportional numbers is the only reason that WM have a chance to meet and marry these beautiful women from Russia. If the numbers were 1:1 as Billy claims I think this forum wouldn't even exist.
From everything I know about Russian women and Russian culture (and it is my culture so I propose that I know a lot!) I can tell you that other than some occasional WM+RW marriages like they happen anywhere else ( i.e. An english guy marrying an Italian woman) the vast majority of RW would be marrying RM, staying in their country that they love, staying close to their family, friends.
The only reason that Russia and Ukraine became a Mecca for the aging WM who can't find a younger, beautiful woman who would be interested in them in their own country, is because there are so few available RM. This is the truth. And if you don't believe me go to some Russian women's forums and get an oppinion.

OK - so let me get this straight.

You are presented with FACTS from 3 separate sources. One is Wikipedia and maybe is somewhat dubious, though many rely heavily on it. One is the CIA Factbook, which most consider rather much of an authority. The other is the Russian Federal State Statistics Service (copied here from Vaughn's post):


None of these statistical sources come close to substantiating your claim of a ratio of 8 women for every 1 man (of marriageable age). In fact, none of them even come close to substantiating a claim of 2 to 1. In fact, none of them even come close to substantiating a claim of 1.5 to 1. Shall I continue?

In spite of the evidence, you choose to doggedly "propose that I [you] know a lot!" And you reject the legitimacy of the presented stats.

Once again - what is the source for your claim that women in Russia outnumber men 8 to 1? Feel free to take any of the legitimate stats you have seen, and play any game you want to play with 'adjusting' them - and there is no possible way you will arrive at any conclusion close to the claim made on your site.

Given that - my other question remains. What is YOUR motivation for citing such ludicrous 'statistics'?

- Dan

[Eduard]

Billy,
I respect your opinion, but I'm entitled to mine, aren't I?
You might be wondering why such differences in m to f numbers?
Years of Chechen war, war in Afganistan, gang wars of the 90s where more young men were killed than in both Chechnya and Afganistan together.

Dan: as I said before I don't remember now where the 1:8 stats came from but they seem quite reasonable to me based on my own personal experience. So I will stand by that number.
I also have video to confirm that. Last summer I shot about 6 hours worth of video in Moscow. Much of the footage was just setting the camera down and watching people go by. If you watch it you will see 6 women go by, 1 guy, 10 women, a couple, 2 guys, 8 women, 2 guys , 5 women and so on. I've shot video on the streets, in a couple of malls, it's always the same.
If you take government stats and just count the bodies maybe it's not 1:8 but when you actually take in account available, marriage-minded men 1:8 is probably right on target.

[BillyB]

Billy,
I respect your opinion, but I'm entitled to mine, aren't I?

Ed, I don't make the stuff up to give an opinion on this, I just repeat what I've learned from reliable sources. Did you study the link in my last post?

[Admin]

Billy,
I respect your opinion, but I'm entitled to mine, aren't I?
You might be wondering why such differences in m to f numbers?
Years of Chechen war, war in Afganistan, gang wars of the 90s where more young men were killed than in both Chechnya and Afganistan together.

Dan: as I said before I don't remember now where the 1:8 stats came from but they seem quite reasonable to me based on my own personal experience. So I will stand by that number.
I also have video to confirm that. Last summer I shot about 6 hours worth of video in Moscow. Much of the footage was just setting the camera down and watching people go by. If you watch it you will see 6 women go by, 1 guy, 10 women, a couple, 2 guys, 8 women, 2 guys , 5 women and so on. I've shot video on the streets, in a couple of malls, it's always the same.
If you take government stats and just count the bodies maybe it's not 1:8 but when you actually take in account available, marriage-minded men you 1:8 is probably right on target.

OK Ed. I get it. Government stats collected by numerous sources means nothing - and your video means everything.

Sorry folks - at this point, logic and reason has evacuated the building and we are left with .... well, you draw your own conclusions.

- Dan

[Eduard]

Ed, I don't make the stuff up to give an opinion on this, I just repeat what I've learned from reliable sources. Did you study the link in my last post?

Billy,
I just llooked at it and maybe I'm not reading it right but it looks like there were
age 27  1049373 males and 976024 females in Russia in 1999
does this sound right? so according to this there is only a little over a million of men in Russia age 27 and a little under a million females? hmmmmm ...

[Eduard]

OK Ed. I get it. Government stats collected by numerous sources means nothing - and your video means everything.

Sorry folks - at this point, logic and reason has evacuated the building and we are left with .... well, you draw your own conclusions.

- Dan

Great job crucifying Dan!
I just wonder why you haven't addressed the other member's post that I quoted that seem to support my claim? A little inconvenient perhaps?
 Here it is again:
Speaking only for my wife's hometown of Yoshkar-Ola, there seems
to be a greater number of females, particularly of marriageable age.
We attended what would have been my stepdaughter's graduation -
her class included 18 girls but only 4 boys - two other classes were
similarly disproportionate - and according to my wife, who taught in
that school system for a decade, the lobsidedness is common.

  I once asked my stepdaughter why so many young ladies marry at
a tender age over there. Her reply was instantaneous: "Because there
are so few men, and there's haste to grab the best available before
another does." That's the mindset: you snooze, you lose.

Russophile
Member

 Offline

Posts: 27

[Admin]

Dan: as I said before I don't remember now where the 1:8 stats came from but they seem quite reasonable to me based on my own personal experience. So I will stand by that number.

Ed,

Does that mean you will change your site to state that this is merely your opinion now?

I mean, it seems evident that any claim you have that the ratio of 8 women for even man being statistically-based is false, and you have stated; "I will stand by that number." So since you do not feel compelled to change your site to reflect legitimate statistical sources, do you plan to clarify the source of the ratio you persist in citing?

- Dan

[Eduard]

Ed,

Does that mean you will change your site to state that this is merely your opinion now?

I mean, it seems evident that any claim you have that the ratio of 8 women for even man being statistically-based is false, and you have stated; "I will stand by that number." So since you do not feel compelled to change your site to reflect legitimate statistical sources, do you plan to clarify the source of the ratio you persist in citing?

- Dan

Dan,
I could clarify that it is my opinion based on personal observation and what I read before (regretfully can't remember the source). But why do you avoid commenting on a post that supports my claim?

Speaking only for my wife's hometown of Yoshkar-Ola, there seems
to be a greater number of females, particularly of marriageable age.
We attended what would have been my stepdaughter's graduation -
her class included 18 girls but only 4 boys - two other classes were
similarly disproportionate - and according to my wife, who taught in
that school system for a decade, the lobsidedness is common.

  I once asked my stepdaughter why so many young ladies marry at
a tender age over there. Her reply was instantaneous: "Because there
are so few men, and there's haste to grab the best available before
another does." That's the mindset: you snooze, you lose.

Russophile
Member

 Offline

Posts: 27

[Admin]

Great job crucifying Dan!
I just wonder why you haven't addressed the other member's post that I quoted that seem to support my claim? A little inconvenient perhaps?
 Here it is again:
Speaking only for my wife's hometown of Yoshkar-Ola, there seems
to be a greater number of females, particularly of marriageable age.
We attended what would have been my stepdaughter's graduation -
her class included 18 girls but only 4 boys - two other classes were
similarly disproportionate - and according to my wife, who taught in
that school system for a decade, the lobsidedness is common.

  I once asked my stepdaughter why so many young ladies marry at
a tender age over there. Her reply was instantaneous: "Because there
are so few men, and there's haste to grab the best available before
another does." That's the mindset: you snooze, you lose.

Russophile
Member

 Offline

Posts: 27

Oh ... I see.

I ask a question. You cannot provide a citation. You challenge me to provide a counter-cite - which I (and others) do. You cling to your previously held belief in spite of overwhelming evidence to disprove your claim - and THAT is what you deem "crucifying"?!?

Ed, I think the problem is several-fold, but principal among them is the simple fact that you are guilty of hyperbole. You probably do not like facing the fact that you are found out - but that is what has occurred. Until yesterday, I had never visited your site. When I did, I found the "statistics" you cite, and it raised a red flag. I then proceeded to ask you a question. Your response has been lacking - at least, for me.

I think another part of the problem is you are coming face-to-face with a false paradigm. You have built a belief system on a foundation that is flawed. Confronting a false paradigm is difficult, and I suspect you will resist. But false it is.

Ed, I have no interest in "crucifying" you or anyone else. You need to understand that at least some of what you are promoting harkens back to earlier days when marriage agencies would make similar claims. Most of them have grown a bit wiser - probably had to deal with their own false paradigms - and no longer make such outlandish and unprovable claims.

Bottom line - if you are going to claim it on your site - you should be willing to back it up - correct? I asked you for that back-up - and am still waiting. If asking you to clarify a claim you make on your site is "crucifying", then I guess I am guilty.

- Dan

[Admin]

Dan,
I could clarify that it is my opinion based on personal observation and what I read before (regretfully can't remember the source). But why do you avoid commenting on a post that supports my claim?

Speaking only for my wife's hometown of Yoshkar-Ola, there seems
to be a greater number of females, particularly of marriageable age.
We attended what would have been my stepdaughter's graduation -
her class included 18 girls but only 4 boys - two other classes were
similarly disproportionate - and according to my wife, who taught in
that school system for a decade, the lobsidedness is common.

  I once asked my stepdaughter why so many young ladies marry at
a tender age over there. Her reply was instantaneous: "Because there
are so few men, and there's haste to grab the best available before
another does." That's the mindset: you snooze, you lose.

Russophile
Member

 Offline

Posts: 27

Ed,

The fact that another member here once held the same opinion as you do is not the issue. In point of fact, in that topic you reference, there were a great many statistics offered which served to counter that one opinion.

Yours is a different matter. You are a business owner with a commercial website. Presumably, you are in business to generate revenues and profits. You seek to attract customers with the rhetoric which is displayed on your site - AND - you cite "statistics" in at least one of your claims.

When asked to produce "those statistics", you cannot. When asked to address legitimate statistics from three separate sources - all of which debunk the claims made on your site - you claim you were "crucified." When asked if you will change your site to reflect what you've learned, you insist on keeping your cited "statistics" as they are because you have a video which proves them.

Ed, you can keep digging - but I think the hole you've dug is deep enough. JMHO

- Dan