Hello..hopefully full filling my 1st obligation for registration

[Turboguy]

No jb, I think his name means that he is going to fax both his pa and is pa in law before he posts so they can proof read it so that he does not say something for which jb will yell at him.

Nice to see you back.  Sometimes it is quiet here without you.

[Faux Pas]

FAx Pas, your not risking much time and effort writing one than if you wrote many. Although there is a romantic side to WO if things work out in the end, most of the time in reality it doesn't work out and thus not very romantic. You're not cheating on a woman if there's no relationship so if you're feeling guilt by writing more than one, don't. Most women allow multiple men to contact them and they are sizing up every man on who's best for them. Thats a good thing! For someone who someday would be the most important person in your life, I would hope you'd put some grueling effort into finding her for your benefit. Some guys spend more time and effort when buying a car that's suits their needs than they do when searching for a partner for life. They don't have their priorities straight. Don't be one of those guys.

BillyB

I understand what you are stating and I can see the logic in that. Quite honestly I don't think it is a "guilt factor" for me. Maybe it's my lack of concentration. It's not my lack of effort, I have written many before. I am not opposed to writing many. But for me personally there comes a time to separate the wheat from the chafe or the cream rise to the top so to speak. I'm not going to correspond with many for any long period of time. I do not in any regard fault some who wish to do so. It's just not for me personally. I was referring more to making a visit to see many. Again for me it's a personal choice. I would make the trip to visit one special woman or one I considered to be special but I not would make the trip to do the "visit many".

Again were talking personal preferences here. I read Pikes trip report. I also read where he was blasted for telling about his trip. I didn't see where is crossed any line or did anything wrong. But dating women in that fashion is just not for me. I know many do it and power to them but I prefer to just visit one. If she doesn't work out I won't be heartbroken and it won't be because I didn't want it to. It'll just be because , it didn't work out. In the case that it does not, I would prefer to meet as I go without a strenuous or rigorous schedule. I wouldn't ask a lady to be number #2 in case #1 fell through or doesn't work out. I don't see how either the lady or myself could be cheating when neither of us are attached to begin with. So it really isn't a guilt thing, just a preference.

I have a really hard time dating 2 or more AW at the same time. I have done it many times throughout the years but I find it too difficult for me. May be it's my lack of mental capacity....LOL....I don't know.  

Forgive me, but I'm still trying to figure out what a "Fax Pas" is.  Did you mean a "Faux Pas"?  A "Fox Paw"?  From the French to mean a false step, or a social blunder?  And what has that to do with FSUW?

Sandro, where are you when we really need you?

jb

Yes thats exactly what I meant. faux pas as in social no no. I mentioned earlier in the thread that I didn't realize my misspelling until I had already registered and now do not know how to correct it. Not a big deal to me either way. It has nothing to do with FSUW. Just the nickname I choose at the moment. Just kind of popped into my head at the time. Is there a jb connection to FSUW I need to know about?

[Mod1]

jb

Yes thats exactly what I meant. faux pas as in social no no. I mentioned earlier in the thread that I didn't realize my misspelling until I had already registered and now do not know how to correct it.

Spelling error corrected. Faux Pas it is.

[jb]

Is there a jb connection to FSUW I need to know about? Smiley

Certainly not.   I've just been married to a RW for about 6 years now.  Surely,,, I know nothing at all about what you are walking into.   Frankly, I don't even care.   My question was simply one which referred to a man who purports himself to be an educated man, yet makes a rather obvious spelling error.   One must be careful of what one writes, we all judge based on what we are able to read.

[Turboguy]

I could have sworn you were married on Feb 14, 2004 which makes 3 + years with my math.   Some people can't spell and some can't add.  Damn, I only have 1 year and 362 days for OMB status and need to practice so I am ready.

[jb]

You math is, as usual, faulty.  Feb 14, '04 was the Orthodox church service in Corpus Christi, TX.   The original marriage was April 11, 2002 in Moscow.  Yeah,,, we are coming up on 6 years this spring.

T/G, what is your problem?  Just got to find any discrepancy in anything I post?  You are such a loser.

[Kuna]

You math is, as usual, faulty.  Feb 14, '04 was the Orthodox church service in Corpus Christi, TX.   The original marriage was April 11, 2002 in Moscow.  Yeah,,, we are coming up on 6 years this spring.

T/G, what is your problem?  Just got to find any discrepancy in anything I post?  You are such a loser.

Naah,  he's not a loser...  He's an "incredible success" now  - forget the constant failure (excluding meaningless BJ's in hotel rooms) over the past 10 years.

Soon he'll be able to offer advice like an OMB and future newbies will look up to him as a God... "Gee... look how old he is...  and he got a young one... I can do it too".   

Of course none of the newbies will know what a dysfunctional life he lead over the ten years it took to find someone to take the bait...  the problem, is we won't know for a long time who was fishing - and who was the fish.

Good to see you posting again jb...  this journey lacks enough reality.  Merry Christmas to you and yours if I don't get a chance beforehand.

Kuna

[Turboguy]

All I knew was that you posted that you had gotten married on that date.  Shows how wonderful RW are.  Most men who marry American women think one wedding is too many.

Thanks,  I think saying I am a loser is a promotion from your previous opinions.

[Gator]

FP,

It is best that you ignore some of the comments given around here.  You have made some comments and asked some questions to which I wish to add my opinion.

I would like to ask you your opinion of why the "hurry" to get over there? Some advice is go quickly other advice is slow down and take your time.

In summary, it is a waste of your time and her time to drag it out unless either of you needs some more courage.

A longer explanation.  You are a rookie.  I recall my rookie days nearly 6 years ago of writing and writing.  I spent as much time as you did getting to understand strange women from a strange land.  When everything is so new it does take time, and I am glad that you have found a woman willing to walk this road with you (many RW do not want long correspondence).

Since my initial trip made in 2002, I have started over three separate times.  I wrote successively less with each campaign. 

It boils down to this:  in just 3-4 letters an experienced man can learn 80% of what is possible to learn in correspondence.  Next comes telephone calls where one can learn 5x more than letter writing.  And it takes only a few calls.  Doing this is enough to decide if she is worth making a trip to visit. 

And when you do meet, you will quickly realize that spending time with her is infinitely more revealing.  In fact, it is so revealing that a six-month letter writing campaign can crash in minutes.

[Gator]

FP,

Some more of your comments.

Quite honestly I wouldn't make the trip at all if it wasn't to meet her.

I am going to meet a friend with some hopes of long range implications.

Proper and reasonable attitude for a first trip.

You and BC are correct as I am not on a marriage or wife finding mission.

 

Again, a reasonable attitude, but you are not going over there to study the architecture of Orthodox churches.  You are going to Russia to meet this interesting woman, and if you like her, you will romance her, and if that progresses, you will marry her (eventually).  I suppose you are saying that you do not expect to return to the US engaged.  Great, or otherwise we would call you a One Week Wonder.   Nevertheless, you trip is one of romance.  In contrast my trip was 50% romance, 50% travel adventure.

Please pay attention to Kuna's post in which he said,

I think the more interest you have in the location, culture, adventure, etc rather than and obsession with the woman/women - the better your "luck" with the woman/women on your trip.

It is true, so put on your National Geographic hat when you travel.

[Gator]

FP,

Some questions.

You are right, we are not google-eyed teenagers but the excitement and interest is still building. We've both declared such and that we both want to see where this can go.

It is good that the two of you are about the same age.  Too many men, such as me, are with women much too young for them.

What exactly do you mean by "We've both declared such"?

My hopes are certainly high but I would not be crushed or devastated if either she, I or both of us did not feel a mutual attraction. Disappointed maybe, but hell bent on making some lemonade with my lemons.

Again, but what do you mean by making lemonade?

I feel relatively confident that I could meet some ladies on my own should that situation arise.

Do not count on this unless you speak Russian or hanging out in Moscow where many women work for international companies and know English.  Even in Moscow it is not easy outside of discos, and the 40s women usually avoid the bars and clubs.

You need to at least have with you the telephone number of a local agency with whom you have reviewed their inventory of profiles.  RW are hospitable and your woman will probably schedule her vacation time to spend 24/7 with you.  Is that what you want to do if the two of you just happen to not like each other romantically.

[Gator]

I am not going to string some other ladies along in case I wind up with free time to meet them if things go south.

They are not staying at home waiting for your call.  But this is your call, and each woman  and each man is different.  If your primary woman knows you are seeing other women in her city, she will not likely take any vacation time for you.

The travel time alone is going to be 3-5 days to and fro.

Where are you coming from?  Do you require a nap after each leg of your trip?

I read Pikes trip report. I also read where he was blasted for telling about his trip. I didn't see where is crossed any line or did anything wrong.

Pike is not like you or most of us.  He takes lengthy business trips to the FSU where he avoids boredom by bedding different women.  Evidently he is not looking for a serious relationship because he has not found one over 5-7 years of doing this.   He goes by other names.

Mandatory reading for you - Kuna's trip report.

I/O,

Seek out TurboGuy's opinion regarding travel routes and providers also. He's was at this for 10 years before he met his waterloo.

Okay, do Oz history books provide a perspective of Waterloo different from that of Napoleon taking his last gamble, getting his ass kicked and never rising to power again?

[I/O]

I/O,
Okay, do Oz history books provide a perspective of Waterloo different from that of Napoleon taking his last gamble, getting his ass kicked and never rising to power again?

No. Turbo, like many of us, is now spending much of his time getting his arse kicked by a RW. (And hating every bit of it..not) As for power, Gator Gator Gator, you have lived with a RW, but you ain't yet been married to one. You are obviously still in grasshopper territory. Marriage of any sort for a man infers division of wealth, multiplication of problems and abolishing his powers. Get used to the idea if you have forgotten.

I/O

[jb]

I/O, thanks for the Season's good wishes, I sincerely hope your 1st Christmas/New Year together will be a happy one with many great memories.   Since I'm away from home again this year we've already celebrated ours.  It was wonderful.

Marriage of any sort for a man infers division of wealth, multiplication of problems and abolishing his powers. 

This is absolutely correct.

One point that gets missed by the newbies is the twin cultures that exists in the FSU, that is to say, those women which were raised and educated before the fall of the USSR, and those that came up after.  This of course refers mostly to women from the larger cities, the "village" girls will be less affected by the changes since the early 1990's. The economical improvements have been slow to reach some parts of the hinterland.   The point being that a Moscovitchka in her 20's is going to be a very modern girl, on par with any of her western sisters.  The 35-45 y.o. will be more Russian, if that's possible.   I almost said "traditional", but I think that's a misleading word.  However, the mental differences between these two age groups can be enormous.

Regarding the notion of wealth, if I'd the good sense to marry my Russian wife 20 years earlier, I'd be as rich as Gator by now.   The older women have a mind set to count every ruble twice, or thrice, before spending.  I've never been fussed at so much over how I spend money, and my bank account has never been so pretty.  There is something to be said for being thrifty, but she can be overboard in that department. 

About the multiplication of problems, until I got married to a RW, I guess I had been leading a fairly carefree life.  I never knew how difficult life could be. 

Power???  What's that?

[Turboguy]

No. Turbo, like many of us, is now spending much of his time getting his arse kicked by a RW. (And hating every bit of it..not) As for power, Gator Gator Gator, you have lived with a RW, but you ain't yet been married to one. You are obviously still in grasshopper territory. Marriage of any sort for a man infers division of wealth, multiplication of problems and abolishing his powers. Get used to the idea if you have forgotten.

I/O

Ah, had I taken a video the other day when VWRW was playfully kicking my arse this would be a good time to post it.   I do have to agree with the voice of experience in your post I/O.   I do think that jb is right as usual about frugality and the older RW, however perhaps some of it is passed down to the daughters of the older RW as well.  My gal is as careful with money as you can get.

jb, some guys (or gals) can never admit they are wrong.  After spending days and days going back through 357 pages of posts you have made, the data I quoted was in your very first post here.  Had I spent more time reading it I would have read that you were right in the (nearly) 6 year comment and my info was wrong, I was wrong in other words.  I hope the next 60 are as pleasant for you as the past 6.

[Simoni]

 The older women have a mind set to count every ruble twice, or thrice, before spending.  I've never been fussed at so much over how I spend money, and my bank account has never been so pretty.  There is something to be said for being thrifty, but she can be overboard in that department. 

Marina is like that, too.   We lead a much more "thrifty" life now.  A RW does not like to "waste" money.

She was 18 when the soviet union fell, so was raised as a RW.   I think that guys who go after younger woman lose that soviet upbringing, which I view as a positive in Marina.

[Faux Pas]

Certainly not.   I've just been married to a RW for about 6 years now.  Surely,,, I know nothing at all about what you are walking into.   Frankly, I don't even care.   My question was simply one which referred to a man who purports himself to be an educated man, yet makes a rather obvious spelling error.   One must be careful of what one writes, we all judge based on what we are able to read.

jb, you obviously put much more stock into a nickname on an internet blog than do I. I made no reference to your knowledge of the subject but merely (and light heartedly) asked what the name "jb" has in reference to FSUW. Much in the same way you asked me about Fax Pas. I took the time to explain to you that is was a mistake, it was a typo. If you wish to consider me uneducated, please have your fill and get your jollies if it makes you in feel in some way superior. I really do not care but I won't get in a pissing contest with you on the subject. I apologize because  the word or name has french origins and you may have in your infinite wisdom on the subjects been offended. I also apologize to you because my typo offends you. It's pretty obvious a man of your "blog stature" has never made a typo. With that being said, now get over it.

[Faux Pas]

FP,

It is best that you ignore some of the comments given around here.  You have made some comments and asked some questions to which I wish to add my opinion.

In summary, it is a waste of your time and her time to drag it out unless either of you needs some more courage.

A longer explanation.  You are a rookie.  I recall my rookie days nearly 6 years ago of writing and writing.  I spent as much time as you did getting to understand strange women from a strange land.  When everything is so new it does take time, and I am glad that you have found a woman willing to walk this road with you (many RW do not want long correspondence).

Since my initial trip made in 2002, I have started over three separate times.  I wrote successively less with each campaign. 

It boils down to this:  in just 3-4 letters an experienced man can learn 80% of what is possible to learn in correspondence.  Next comes telephone calls where one can learn 5x more than letter writing.  And it takes only a few calls.  Doing this is enough to decide if she is worth making a trip to visit. 

And when you do meet, you will quickly realize that spending time with her is infinitely more revealing.  In fact, it is so revealing that a six-month letter writing campaign can crash in minutes.

Hi Gator!

Thanks for taking the time. You are correct sir. I am a rookie and realize there is much I do not know and much more for me to learn. I pretend to know nothing of this type endeavor. All I do know is what I have been in thus far. Perhaps I should have heeded your first advice first and ignored a post but I choose not too. It is what it is.

It was pretty obvious to me after the first 6-8 phone calls that a meeting with this lady would be imminent. I understand your statement on how a 6 month ordeal can crash and burn in minutes. I'm considering that as I make my plans. I hadn't however give that much consideration before joining this forum.

FP,

Some more of your comments.

Proper and reasonable attitude for a first trip.
 

Again, a reasonable attitude, but you are not going over there to study the architecture of Orthodox churches.  You are going to Russia to meet this interesting woman, and if you like her, you will romance her, and if that progresses, you will marry her (eventually).  I suppose you are saying that you do not expect to return to the US engaged.  Great, or otherwise we would call you a One Week Wonder.   Nevertheless, you trip is one of romance.  In contrast my trip was 50% romance, 50% travel adventure.

Please pay attention to Kuna's post in which he said,
It is true, so put on your National Geographic hat when you travel.

Agreed. I am going because I am romantically interested in this lady and wish to meet her. I see such a trip as an adventure whether she and I, have the chemistry that were believe we have or not. I've been married once and divorced for 16 years. In those 16 years I have had relationships and dated many women, all AW. Many much younger. I tell you that not as a boast but to tell you this; In all that time I haven't found a woman or lifetime partner so my expectations are not all that high. I'll enjoy myself and make a trip out of it regardless of the outcome with the lady.

FP,

Some questions.

It is good that the two of you are about the same age.  Too many men, such as me, are with women much too young for them.

What exactly do you mean by "We've both declared such"?


Again, but what do you mean by making lemonade?

Do not count on this unless you speak Russian or hanging out in Moscow where many women work for international companies and know English.  Even in Moscow it is not easy outside of discos, and the 40s women usually avoid the bars and clubs.

You need to at least have with you the telephone number of a local agency with whom you have reviewed their inventory of profiles.  RW are hospitable and your woman will probably schedule her vacation time to spend 24/7 with you.  Is that what you want to do if the two of you just happen to not like each other romantically.

We are close to the same age, 3 yrs difference. My interest from the start was a lady closer to my age. Just what I prefer. We've both said to each other we would like to travel down this path and see for ourselves if this is something we'd like to pursue. It is her first time and mine as well.

Making lemonade I was referring to if this trip does not turn out on the positive side with this lady I am prepared to make the best of it anyway.

I know very little russian and I understand most in Siberia know no or very little english. I am not opposed to going to another city or simply making the best of it in Siberia. I wouldn't be disappointed either way.

I am going to take that advice of an agency number. I/O suggested it as well as part of a "back up" plan. No I would not expect the lady to spend all her time with me if we did not "hit it off". I would bow out gracefully as much as possible and let her know my feelings as soon as I knew and would hope she would do the same. Whether it was positive or negative.

They are not staying at home waiting for your call.  But this is your call, and each woman  and each man is different.  If your primary woman knows you are seeing other women in her city, she will not likely take any vacation time for you.


Where are you coming from?  Do you require a nap after each leg of your trip?


Pike is not like you or most of us.  He takes lengthy business trips to the FSU where he avoids boredom by bedding different women.  Evidently he is not looking for a serious relationship because he has not found one over 5-7 years of doing this.   He goes by other names.

Mandatory reading for you - Kuna's trip report.

She may or may not be home awaiting my calls. That would be her choice either way. We haven't met so we're surely not committed. I really do not expect anything from her at this point. We're still strangers who want to meet and see where things go, whether it be right or left. She is always there to answer. She may be seeing some other people at this time, I wouldn't blame her.

Gator I am still a relatively young man of 46, healthy and full of vigor. Traveling both bores and tires me but no, no nappy required.


Pike is what he is. His particular method indicates to me he's not interested in a wife but who am I to say? I really do not have a desire to travel to FSU for a sex-a-thon. I would stay in the US for that. Certainly I love sex like most everyone else. It's like baseball for me, there maybe lots of people better at it than I but, there is no one that enjoys it more than me. I'm interested in meeting this one lady. I wouldn't travel to russia for a sex fest. Whats the point?

[Faux Pas]

Oh yeah, I look forward to reading Kuna's trip report. I have not done so. Have a link by chance?

[Turboguy]

Faux, you seem to have a good attitude about it and that is great.   Don't mind jb.  What you saw is just the way he is.  He may be rough around the edges but he does have good abilities to spot problems and his advice is usually worth listening to. 

I think you would be smart to take some agency info with you just in case but even if it does not work out sometimes the first trip is one you need to get out of the way in the learning process.

Siberia has some great women.  May we ask where in Siberia you are planning to go?

[I/O]

Faux Pas: Word of advice. Read JB's posts twice or thrice. There is always a note of very sound advice in them. I've never met  the man personally, more is the pity, however, I have learned that he is the type of guy I would have number one in my trench under fire.

Just a note on English. Throughout the last few years I have found the percentage of people who have some English much the same in the major Siberian cities as it is in the West Russian cities. That is, many have some very limited English, but fluency is still relatively rare. If you can speak with your lady by telephone, that is a good start, but it is just that, a start. Don't underestimate the value of free and fluent communication.

I/O

[jb]

I/O, you are too kind.

Faux Pas, there is no need to apologize to me.  I always make the point of correct spelling and good grammar to the newbies who are in the midst of a letter writing campaign.  One must remember that the women they are writing to usually have limited English and that was probably learned in school some years ago, and if they were lucky enough to have had a native English speaker as an instructor, he, or she, was probably from the UK.   Americans do not speak English, (ask any Brit), when we write we must carefully exclude the usage of slang or any Americanisms, as that only muddies the water for someone who is struggling with a second language to start with.  This also includes many of the so called professional translators working in the MOB industry.  It's very easy to miscommunicate an idea or cause other confusion.  A confused woman will very quickly throw up her hands and declare, "This is too hard", and simply walk away.

I think you have the right attitude, BTW.

I did a couple of winters in Siberia back in the bad old days when it was still the CCCP, I quickly learned to love the Siberian people.  You will not find more hospitable and friendly folks in the world.  They tend to be a bit distant and stand-offish in the beginning, however, if they decide to befriend you, it is the shirt-off-my-back kind of friendship.  I hope you have the same positive experience I did when you visit Siberia.  I just hope you don't have any food prejudices, Siberians tend to think about what is edible in rather more broad terms than we do.  Very little of the cow, pig, chicken, or fish, goes to waste.

[Gator]

FP,

It is called Kuna's Ukraine trip report. 

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=3650.0

Earlier, he wrote much about planning his trip in a separate thread.  Very good reading about correspondence.  I do not know the link, but if you search over time you may find it.  Anyway, you are past that point so it has less value.

[Faux Pas]

Gator

Finally, I have finished my homework assignment of reading Kuna's TR thread. Looks like he had a great time and success. Seems like he's a good guy. I seem to have picked up some good information from his trip from his report when I get my feet on the ground (although I'm not sure of the difference in Ukraine and Siberia)  I did search but could not find the Kuna trip  planning thread you mentioned. I'd like to read that if anyone knows of it's whereabouts. Actually, I am still in the planning stages. After listening to yours and some others advice I attempted to move my trip sooner than originally planned but my lady says it's impossible for her vacation to be any earlier than June/July when her department shuts down. She works at a college and is limited when she may take her vacations.

She insists my trip be then so she can spend all her time with me unencumbered. Otherwise we will only have nights and no days except on the weekend. We have discussed that my time in her town would be no more than 7-10 days. I really do not sense any nefarious intentions on her part, but, a genuine desire to be with and entertain me. Perhaps I am reading this wrong, I do not know. I really do get the "I'm peeing in my pants for you to come" attitude. I also sense a fear from her that she feels either I will not come or I will come and visit others. Neither of which is true at this juncture.

I can understand and respect the guys that WMVM Kuna included. Quite honestly, that is just not my bag. On many occasions I have dated multiple AW and it's always led to disaster for me. For many reasons which I will not go into now, other than it just doesn't work favorably for me.

Tell me O'great one. Lead me, help me find my way. I'm not being facetious. I would really appreciate direction here. I feel a connection with this lady, as much as one can through emails and telephone conversations. There is no declarations of love or overt infatuations but a genuine care for each other. I'll welcome anyone's advice. Not that Ill necessarily follow it but, it is welcome.

[catzenmouse]

I did search but could not find the Kuna trip  planning thread you mentioned. I'd like to read that if anyone knows of it's whereabouts.

It was actually a blog called "The Final 40 Days" and can be found here:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?ind=blog&op=home&idu=1539

Ken