Why do men want to marry?

[Lily]

Have seen this quote in a recent thread.

Marriage of any sort for a man infers division of wealth, multiplication of problems and abolishing his powers. Get used to the idea if you have forgotten.

I/O

Could you guys please share your opinions on why do you still want to marry a good woman? Why not leave everything as is and not to potentially increase problems in your life?

Many RM do not want to marry and prefer meeting nice women, having girlfriends and change them from time to time. Some men want to get a wife when things go bad, and when they need support; but as their life improves to the better, some may want to alter their opinion on relations. There is a saying, 'when one is doing no good, he looks for a woman. When one is going great, he looks for another woman'.

Also, how do you decide between making a woman a wife or a girlfriend? For the sake of hypothetical, let's assume there is about a woman of high quality.

[Turboguy]

I think some of it is necessity because of the visa situation.  I guess if someone did not want to marry they could move to Russia and be with their gal and stay single.  The K-1 process does not give you much choice.

Some of the people who know me were a little surprised to see me get married since when any AW wanted to get serious I sorta ran for the hills.  I do think a serious factor is that you have finally met someone who makes you feel complete and is the kind of wife you have dreamed of having.  Well, mostly the kind of life you have dreamed of having.  Close enough you are as happy as you could be.

[Gator]

Lily,

A very serious question.  I must take off for a golf match; nevertheless, some quick answers.

Humans are hardwired to live as couples.  If she is a Russian woman, marriage is the only way other than moving there.  Nevertheless, I find comfort in the commitment made by marriage.   Then I am reminded by the definition of love - "temporary insanity curable by marriage."

There is a saying, 'when one is doing no good, he looks for a woman. When one is going great, he looks for another woman'.

A man looking for another woman is not in true love.   I stayed with my American wife as my career rocketed upwards.  I was a better father than husband, however.

Now an example of why some men never will marry:




 

[BC]

Now an example of why some men never will marry:

.. or never stay married.

I would think major purchases would be discussed and agreed upon ahead of time.

Financial aspects can be quite troubling for a young couple.  Often true 'partnership' is overlooked, at least until a breaking point is reached.

Since the guy is selling his bike instead of filing for divorce he must have reconsidered and reached some compromise.

"It's either the bike or me.. "

[Lily]

 Then I am reminded by the definition of love - "temporary insanity curable by marriage."
 

Gator,

I find this definition almost perfect.

Well, it seems to me that some men just do not trust the woman enough. A guy may think that the risks of marrying an evil person able to destroy his life outweights a prospect of living the rest of his life under protection of a fine person who will love and cherish him..

[Daveman]

Very interesting question, Lily.  Also probably many different answers. 

I wasn't interested much in marriage when I was younger because it seemed every woman I dated wanted to change me in some way. It could be argued that it would have been for the better, but it seemed that when the relationship would solidify and become stable into something more serious, the nagging would begin - which always made remaining single more attractive. It's easier to avoid the nagging and have peace by moving to a different woman than to convince the one you're with that you are not going to change, regardless of how vocal she might be about whatever her peeve du jour might be.  Of course we always grow and change in some ways, but I don't think many men enjoy having change thrust upon them.

Date for fun - bachelor for peace... move on when the peace no longer exists.

I can't remember the exact quote, or its origin, but it goes something like - a man loves a woman for who she is and doesn't want her to change; a woman loves a man for who she *thinks* he'll become (or who she can make him become).  True? I don't know, but my relationships did seem to follow this pattern.

Even today, I am quite okay with being single.  I am not lonely, and have a great time in life.  I would like to have a partner who will bring something wonderful into my life - a passion to be alive, a joy in her presence, being a better man simply because she exists.. you know, those intangible dreams we pursue but can only touch when we are fortunate enough to find a partner who really fits together with us. Not just a good quality woman, but that elusive soul mate.  I still believe it can happen.

I guess it's a matter of priorities.  For me, peace and solemnity are top priorities which may indeed keep me in a life of bachelorhood because as my peaceful existence is threatened I grow more distant and usually will walk away. 

Of course any relationship will have disagreement, spirited debate, etc, but when daily life becomes more of a hassle than a joy, the yearning for peace prevails every time.  It's easy to guarantee that peace is only a doorknob away when single.  Once married, the route to get out of potential hell is far more complicated.

Hope that makes sense
Dave

[timothe]

I've managed to successfully avoid marriage for 35 years, largely because the responsibilty required to have a good relationship with a woman was more than I was capable of doing.  I was lucky in that I was so immature for so long that I never got roped into any bad relationships for an extended period of time.  The women I dated in my 30s were mostly desperate women, but obviously not desperate enough to tolerate my selfishness. 

I don't know how I would have behaved if any of the women I met during this time were lovely and smart enough to knock me off my feet.  Maybe I would have grown up sooner...maybe not.  It didn't happen, so there's no reason for me to speculate about it. 

The Lithuanian woman I met in Chicago 7 years ago was desperate too, but she was so much different than the others!!  That woman lit a fire under me that has pushed me into adulthood.  It was a slow change, as I was very resistant to give up my old habits.  (still am)

I had pretty much given up on my idea of marrying a woman that excites me after the Visa process ended with Olga.  (the first time)  I started to slip back into my old lifestyle but found that I couldn't live that way anymore.  There was now more pain than pleasure...most of that pain being loneliness and self pity. 

So I put all of my efforts and energies into work.  (That Jackson Browne song "Legal Tender" really makes sense to me now.)  I figured that if I wasn't going to marry, I wanted to have enough money to enjoy life.  I moved from Chicago to Dallas to advance my career and it has worked out pretty well. 

When Olga found me at the beginning of the year, I was perfectly happy with my single life in that I was doing what I wanted to do and I had very little stress.  I always cared for her, so I thought seriously about the idea of marriage and family but my life was so good and my love of money so true, I couldn't pull the trigger to see her again. 

In August, she finally convinced me to see her.  (I wrote a trip report about this.)  And now I can say that I love her and I want her to be with me.  I don't see her as a sacrifice on my freedom, but rather, an extension of me.  She's sick now, so we've had to go through some difficult days, but we are both looking forward to our future together. 

Lily, I guess the long answer to your short question is that for me, I did not see the need for marriage until I got bitten by love.  When I first went to Russia, I wasn't in love...I was just looking for someone that could excite me like the Lithuanian woman.

Some of the more mature guys here were married before, so maybe they had different ideas about what married life would be for them.  But for me, I have no idea what married life will be like.  I just want my Olga to be here as I go through it.   

[SANDRO43]

Also, how do you decide between making a woman a wife or a girlfriend? For the sake of hypothetical, let's assume there is about a woman of high quality.

I'd say the probability of this transition is directy proportional to the pleasure (in ALL the possible senses of the word ) felt when being in her company.

In this, Epicurus is my guide and mentor:

Epicurus believed that the greatest good was to seek modest pleasures in order to attain a state of tranquility and freedom from fear (ataraxia) as well as absence of bodily pain (aponia) through knowledge of the workings of the world and the limits of our desires. The combination of these two states is supposed to constitute happiness in its highest form. Although Epicureanism is a form of hedonism, insofar as it declares pleasure as the sole intrinsic good, its conception of absence of pain in the arse as the greatest pleasure and its advocacy of a simple life make it quite different from "hedonism" as it is commonly understood.

(Emphasis inserted by me, not in the original ).

[Mir]

And another of Epicurus's disciple states:

In this last case, as I have explained, the thing in us that responds to the stimulus is the seen that comes with ripening years and strengthening limbs. For different things respond to different stimuli or provocations. The one stimulus that evokes human seed from the human body is a human form. As soon as this seed is dislodged from its resting place, it travels through every member of the body, concentrating at certain reservoirs in the lions, and promptly acts upon the generative organs. These organs are stimulated and swollen by the seed. Hence follows the will to eject it in the direction in which the tyrannical lust is tugging. The body makes for the source from which the mind is pierced by love. For the wounded normally fall in the direction of their wound: the blood spurts out towards the source of the blow; and the enemy who delivered it, if he is fighting at close quarters, is bespattered by the crimson stream. So, when a man is pierced by the shafts of Venus, whether they are launched by a lad with womanish limbs or a woman radiating love from her whole body, he strives towards the source of the wound and craves to be united with it and to transmit something of his own substance from body to body. His speechless yearning is a presentiment of bliss.
This then, is what we term Venus. This it the origin of the thing called love-that drop of Venus’ honey that first drips into out heart, to be followed by numbing heart-ach. Though the object of your love may be absent, images of it still haunt you and the beloved name chimes sweetly in your ears. If you find yourself thus passionately enamoured of an individual, you should keep well away from such images. Thrust from you anything that might feed your passion, and turn your mind elsewhere. Vent the seed of love upon other objects. By clinging to it you assure yourself the certainty of heart-sickness and pain. With nourishment the festering sore quickens and strengthens. Day by day the frenzy heightens and the grief deepens. Your only remedy is to lance the first wound with new incisions; to salve it, while it is still fresh, with promiscuous attachments; to guide the motions of your mind into some other channel.
(Lucretius)

[SANDRO43]

Gorblimey, I didn't know that Lucretius could be allusively hard-core .

[jb]

Gator,

I laughed till I cried over that motorcycle classified ad.  I had the exact same situation over a 1978 Beech Bonanza V35B.  It was; "one of us has to go, me or the airplane".  Like a fool, I decided to get rid of the airplane first.  That was one of the dumbest decisions I ever made.

[chernoble]

Many RM do not want to marry and prefer meeting nice women, having girlfriends and change them from time to time. Some men want to get a wife when things go bad, and when they need support; but as their life improves to the better, some may want to alter their opinion on relations. There is a saying, 'when one is doing no good, he looks for a woman. When one is going great, he looks for another woman'.

Also, how do you decide between making a woman a wife or a girlfriend? For the sake of hypothetical, let's assume there is about a woman of high quality.

This is interesting.  Lets see, if there was only attraction based on sex (guy sleeping around, looking for new sleeping partner, only care about her body) that would be a pretty shallow life IMO.  Because one day that playboy would wake up bald, toothless, and alone and wonder what the hell was he wasting his life for not developing a serious relationship with someone and making it last.

#1 reason to get married is simple: to start a beautiful loving family.  Sex lasts till the morning, feelings last a lifetime.  Here are some quotes I find useful.

Marriage (and kids) is our last, best chance to grow up. 
Only two things are necessary to keep one's wife happy. One is to let her think she is having her own way, the the other, to let her have it.

[Lily]

This is interesting.  Lets see, if there was only attraction based on sex (guy sleeping around, looking for new sleeping partner, only care about her body) that would be a pretty shallow life IMO.  Because one day that playboy would wake up bald, toothless, and alone and wonder what the hell was he wasting his life for not developing a serious relationship with someone and making it last.

A RM may reason to this that until he is definitely not marketable with women, he 's enjoy life to the fullest. When and if - some men take good care about themselves - when and if he is bald, ugly and cannot afford girlfriends, then may be - again may be but not sure - he would eventually find a single woman of similar quality. just in case he wants and finds one.

There is a point among some men that the men sometimes marry if they feel not sure that they can have a variety of girlfriends. If a man is of high quality, he has a constant supply of female adorators and is unlikely to want a wife. Why to buy a cow when he can have lots of milk anyway. If a man is not that good, he would marry in order to secure at least one woman on their side...Sad point, I can tell you... I don't want to believe it and would like to see some arguments against this point.

[SANDRO43]

Why (to) buy a cow when he can have lots of milk anyway.

Interesting analogy, shall we be seeing a new MOC acronym (Mail Order Cow) next ?

[I/O]

shall we be seeing a new MOC acronym (Mail Order Cow) next ?

Look around the dating sites, there is wedges of them.

I/O

[Daveman]

Interesting analogy, shall we be seeing a new MOC acronym (Mail Order Cow) next ?

LoL! good one... MOOOOOOOving right along...


interesting point Lily.  I don't know. For me personally, it was/is never about 'many' women. It was more about not really caring about 'marriage', but finding the right woman.  Marriage would be a given in that case, but not 'married to avoid being alone'.  I would simply rather be alone than to be married to someone other that my passionate, enthralling, 'can't live without her' soul mate.  I think it is completely related to passion. I think any man or women could be married easily if marriage were the only goal - even to a stunningly beautiful woman or dashingly handsome man. But finding that special "how in the world did I get so lucky to find you" partner is a bit more difficult.

Dave

[SANDRO43]

I think many people, particularly those without a previous experience, harbour some false assumptions about marriage.

IMO, since marriage is a 'container', an institution, it is neither good nor bad in itself, but rather neutral: it's those 'contained' therein that can make it a spectacular success or a dismal failure. You could spend the whole night arguing whether any institution is good/bad, say schools, but a good school is much more than just walls, equipment, etc. it's its teachers and students that basically make it work, or not.

Although it must be said that marriage is a very effective litmus paper for a relationship, since 24/7 proximity may bring to light the worst in either member's character, now that the 'dressing up for the date' phase is usually over.

Someone said that "If you can tolerate the worst you partner can come up with, then you've got it made", or words to that effect .

[Gator]

There is a point among some men that the men sometimes marry if they feel not sure that they can have a variety of girlfriends.

Immature reason to marry IMO.

If a man is of high quality, he has a constant supply of female adorators and is unlikely to want a wife. Why to buy a cow when he can have lots of milk anyway.

I see nothing "high quality" about a man who is constantly playing the field and avoiding a loving, enduring and intimate relationship (intimacy of the mind and spirit).   Not to worry Lily, these men are transparent and you will recognize them - maybe not on the first date, but it will not take many dates. 

If a man is not that good, he would marry in order to secure at least one woman on their side...

Some men are desperate or lack confidence.  Lily, I doubt if you would find such men appealing after you really got to know them.   Besides, if he is "not that good," how long will his bride stay with him.  Marriage secures nothing because divorce is so easy.

I don't want to believe it and would like to see some arguments against this point.

In summary, Lily, these points do not describe all men.  In fact, they are for men who will never win your heart.

[BillyB]

one day that playboy would wake up bald, toothless, and alone and wonder what the hell was he wasting his life for not developing a serious relationship with someone and making it last.

I don't think that comment is going to make Playboys think again and change their behavior. Most will not live in regret for their actions. They are selfish people and use women for personal gain. When they get old and ugly and can't get women for free, they will simply rent a hooker.

Why to buy a cow when he can have lots of milk anyway.
 

Lily, playboys in America say something similar. "Why buy a cow when you can get the milk for free?"

[chernoble]

Interesting analogy, shall we be seeing a new MOC acronym (Mail Order Cow) next ?

I think "Male Order Bride" would be a better shot... They won't make as much noise in bed  

There is a point among some men that the men sometimes marry if they feel not sure that they can have a variety of girlfriends. If a man is of high quality, he has a constant supply of female adorators and is unlikely to want a wife. Why to buy a cow when he can have lots of milk anyway. If a man is not that good, he would marry in order to secure at least one woman on their side...Sad point, I can tell you...  I don't want to believe it and would like to see some arguments against this point.

Marriage to me will always be to have children and family.  Marriage provides the cohesive support and bond needed to take care of the children either brought in or produced from that union.  I know older couples marry for other reasons (have someone to talk with, play with, etc) but the compatible partner has to have a generous heart and be able to care for the offspring not just think of their own enjoyment.

In the end both sides got to sacrifice somethings in marriage not just for themselves but for the human beings they create and raise together.  Those men who sleep around are trying their hardest to enjoy the fun without the responsibility (basically acting like children themselves) but once they get someone pregnant and she wants to keep the baby they will have a whole new world to get used to and without being in a pre-existing stable institution of marriage to deal with it.

I don't think that comment is going to make Playboys think again and change their behavior. Most will not live in regret for their actions. They are selfish people and use women for personal gain. When they get old and ugly and can't get women for free, they will simply rent a hooker.

Thats what STDs are for.   

[I/O]

Lily: Interesting you picked up on my comment, which although made slightly as a joke, IMO is very true. Why would men want to marry under such circumstances. I've read the most screwball reasons over the years and I guess each to his own, but for me it is simple. I have now been married twice and in each case it was a thing called love that crept up and bit me on the arse. In both cases, lifestyle, economics and life entertainment would have clearly dictated a single life being much easier.

At the end ot the day, most of us have a desire to love and be loved which will, given the opportunity over ride almost all other emotions. When that happens, there is an unaviodable desire to articulate that and confirm that to the other person via a public, legal, (sometimes spiritual) and moral declaration in the form of marriage. Plenty of marriages fail, too many, but there is some sense of security during the rougher times for both partners knowing that it is not necessarily so easy to simply walk away.

Bottom line IMO is love.

I/O

[oldernotwiser]

Ahh, thought I would comment, I am not sure it will add anything to discussion, I guess I just thought I would give my opinion.  I am sure many people enter into marriage for a variety of reasons.  But I would think that many enter into marriage with the intent of developing partnership, they see relationships as good things and are hoping to make their relationship the best it can be, the people I am thinking of would not see commitment as a negative but a positive thing in a relationship.  I think those relationships that are the healthiest are the ones that build on the partnership, and the two people involved in the relationship are better off because of it.  I think this is what we seek, and it brings in the idea of soulmate, the person who is are other half.  Maybe you are complete as single person, however, you will develop a new special entity that is your partnership (marriage) after finding your soulmate. 

I guess I feel it is more than just signifying commitment to make babies and raise them together, not to make light of the babies made through this institution or the commitment to them.  And bless any and all children at Christmas time.  It’s just that I feel that there are many exemplary marriages that exist that may not result in children.

[pk-uk]

Interesting analogy, shall we be seeing a new MOC acronym (Mail Order Cow) next ?

I think "Male Order Bride" would be a better shot... They won't make as much noise in bed  

Really  ???

[pk-uk]

Could you guys please share your opinions on why do you still want to marry a good woman? Why not leave everything as is and not to potentially increase problems in your life?

Of course, a couple don't have to get married. They can "live in sin".  Then, when you break up it seems there is no hassle from the courts over the house and finances etc.

I don't really know why I prefer to be married.  Personally, I think it it the biggest form of commitment one can give to another and for me, whether or not my feelings are justified, it gives me a sense of stability.  Plus, I don't spend all my time looking for the next woman and can relax and enjoy life with the one I've found.

Interestingly, stats in the UK point to children in families where parents are not married are more likely to see their parents split up.  Also, of the people I know who were living together, most eventually married - even after years of 'living togetherness'.  So I guess it must have a lot going for it.

Also, how do you decide between making a woman a wife or a girlfriend? For the sake of hypothetical, let's assume there is about a woman of high quality.

If she'll jump into bed within a few weeks of knowing me than she's probably girl-friend material.  Hypocritical?  Maybe, maybe not.  I'm not saying I'd be husband material for everybody 

As one who always wanted kids, I would usually ask myself two questions:
- could I imagine myself living the rest of my life with this woman
- do I think this woman would make a good mother for my kids

I'm not really sure what is meant by "high quality", but I'd certainly be looking for "good temperament".

Maybe I should have been looking at cows 

[Gator]

If she'll jump into bed within a few weeks of knowing me than she's probably girl-friend material. 

Did you mean "hours" or "weeks"?

Regardless, I think it is disingenuous and inappropriate to measure a woman's value in such a way.  What if the woman really liked you and you liked her?  You will forsake any thought of marriage because you and she did something together that is natural and closely personal?  Frankly, this mentality mostly disappeared two generations ago.