Hot Russian Brides busted!

[ConnerVT]

I remember many things.  It constantly surprises my wife, also.  What I always forget is names and dates, which is a bummer, for I truly love history.  Go figure. :?

I try to play your role at RMP (a kinder, and of course, better looking version of you  ), where I deal out congratulations when they're deserved, and a dollop of no nonsense reality when needed.

[jb]

I try to play your role at RMP (a kinder, and of course, better looking version of you )

Kinder,, quite possible.  Better looking,, never~!:cool:

[Jack]

Well Jet, considering the cheapshots you have taken of me previous, considering the source of your information from the questioned cheapshots, considerng your position and involvement with this particular Russian discussion board, it's pretty much the response I expected from you.
 
If it's any consulation I think it speaks well for you that you are beginning so spend much more time on what I consider the best, most honest, fair and ethical Russian discussion board in the world, the RWD.
 
And yes, to Mr. Thinks he knows it all Jet, I will comment on your Rule number 3 that you mention. Prior to my being banned I had ONE account, it was Jack. After I was banned, let me repeat so you might understand this, AFTER I was banned, I entered the site with a new name, made 3-4 post's and one evening talked with a few guys on the chat line under this new name in which I told certain members on the chat board that evening it was me. Anything else you may have heard is just more of the unfounded truths you are used to hearing from your favorite watering hole and the bullscit you wish to believe.

[RacerX]

Jack,

Could I ask you a somewhat personal question?

Do you have any financial interest in this board (either in the development or maintenance)?

[Jack]

Racerx, no, absolutley not. Despite what dumbass sterlitz says and thinks, I have NO financial interest in this site. I am not an owner, part owner, manager, nothing.

When Dan did start his site I, and several others, offered him a free service that he could give away to some members during a free drawing. I have only offered one free gift to date. 

[Admin]

Jack,

Could I ask you a somewhat personal question?

Do you have any financial interest in this board (either in the development or maintenance)?

Racer,

What makes you ask this question?

It is not the first time someone has hinted at this (no-one has come out and asked me that question, however), and I am wondering why this comes up?

- Dan

[RacerX]

OK Dan,

If I might ask the same question of you? (if it's none of my business, I will accept that as an answer:)

In my field, medical, if I should write a journal article evaluating a product or device, I am required to devulge any financial interests. Obviously, making money is what we all do, but sometimes it just helps to know who-is-who.

To be quite honest with you, I've heard rumors that such a link might exist.

[jb]

Dan,

I think this question stems from the obvious market slant to all of Jack's posts here and elsewhere.  Jack never misses a chance to push his company.  There's nothing wrong in this, it just sometimes gives the wrong impression.

Oh, and Jack;

I will comment on your Rule number 3 that you mention. Prior to my being banned I had ONE account, it was Jack. After I was banned, let me repeat so you might understand this, AFTER I was banned, I entered the site with a new name, made 3-4 post's and one evening talked with a few guys on the chat line under this new name in which I told certain members on the chat board that evening it was me. Anything else you may have heard is just more of the unfounded truths you are used to hearing from your favorite watering hole and the bullscit you wish to believe.

We both know that's not quite the way it happened.  You might fool the newbies, but I was there when it went on.  You are a sly dog, I'll give you that.

[Jack]

Well JB, you are mistaken.

Yep, it finally happened, jb has made a mistake.

Care to prove it? You can't, but please jb, go ahead and prove you are right and I am wrong, please.

[Bruno]

Jack,

Could I ask you a somewhat personal question?

Do you have any financial interest in this board (either in the development or maintenance)?

 

I don't reply for Jack but for my own case... my site is not a business but in case if it was one...

Yes, publish on forum can lead to a financial interest... if you make good post, people have interest in you, they select your profile and click on the link to your site... in some way, it is a free publicity...

But this is true if you make informative post only... like post the phone number from a good taxi compagny in Moscow...

But if you begin post in controversial topic, you have the reverse effect... people doubt of you and you can loose customer...

[jb]

Jack, I don't think I've made a mistake to remind you of old history, WRT to multi-online idents and screen names, whatever you wish to call it, you are as guilty as sin, and you know it.  You prefected the plan to come onto a board, pretending to be a rank newbie having trouble with a RW relationship, then, under another id, rescue the troubled newbie and give all credit to the First Dream Agency for all this wisdom.  I saw you do it several times myself.

Don't kid yourself into thinking you are squeaky clean, we know better.

Whenever I see the screen name "Landscaper" I get flashbacks.

As to proving anything, Jack, I'm not in the lawyer business, I don't have to prove anything, it isn't against the law to post an opinion.  It is my opinion that you somehow screwed Spencer Forest at RWG, I think he was right about you.  You somehow figured a way to screw him to the wall "legally", which doesn't mean he was wrong, it just means you won a lawsuit.  To my mind there's a lot of difference between being found "Not Guilty" and being found "Innocent", if you can understand the difference.  You can prosper under the rules of the court, but to my way of thinking, that doesn't necessarily make you a good guy.

[Jack]

Hey jb, you like being called a liar? Probably not.
 
I will ask you now to prove that on the site you are referring to that I posed as a newby having trouble with a RW relationship and then I rescued such person. jb prove I used more than one identify BEFORE I was banned! You can't do it jb. Your only going on what Marty/camergurl made up. Or don't you remember the quote from the infamous camergurl, "I am100% Jack Bragg and BarryM are the same person".  And what did camergurl do when he found out he was wrong?  Nothing. Not a thing. Did he have the balls, the high morals and ethics to go back and tell the board he was wrong? Nope, just let it stay, no problem. And what did he tell you when he knew he had made many false claims? Nothing.
 
JB I am calling you a liar unless you can prove I used more than one identiy before being banned and I am calling you a liar unless you can prove I posed as a newby having a RW relationship probelm and then FD coming to the rescue. These are just a few of the many untruths being reported on the site you are referring too. You have NO proof, you have hersay. And I will be the first to apoligize to you for calling you a liar if you can prove you are right, which would be impossiable to do. Just pure fabriaction JB. Give dates, show me the writing of this newby who was having RW relationship problems, YOU CAN'T do it jb, NEVER happened.

[jb]

Jack,

I've already said proof isn't necessary, you know the facts better than I, your last post let the cats out of the bag on that one.  The problem Spencer Forest had was that he didn't keep good records, you beat him up with BS technical details.

I won't get into proving, one way or the other, anything. I just have vivid memories of the events as they unfolded.  And you looked pretty bad at that time.

[Admin]

OK Dan,

If I might ask the same question of you? (if it's none of my business, I will accept that as an answer:)

In my field, medical, if I should write a journal article evaluating a product or device, I am required to devulge any financial interests. Obviously, making money is what we all do, but sometimes it just helps to know who-is-who.

To be quite honest with you, I've heard rumors that such a link might exist.

Sure I'll answer.

First, there does need to be some form of financial transaction for there to be a financial interest - yes?

As Jack points out (some would say, like a broken record ), RWD does not have any paid advertising and I assure you no-one is passing me anything under (or over) the table - but I am willing to entertain offers - contact me off-list.

Way back when (2000, or so) when I was an active contributor to the Brama (Ukraine travel) board, I was asked to look into improved board software because someone (the Handy Andy cartel) had attacked the board with unceasing spam. I found some BBS software that purported to import the native files used for Brama.

Maybe a year (or so) later, I started thinking about starting a Russian board. When I first launched it, I used that same BBS software - which, as it turns out, was not very friendly for the user community. Bruno even stumbled onto the site just the other day. That site remained up for quite some time - just very little activity.

Early this year, I found some improved software and crafted a new board from it - the present RWD.

Now - how does this tie into my association with Jack? I met Jack in Dallas sometime in 2000. We were both contributors to the Planet-Love board and when I traveled to Dallas for business, we decided to meet. Late that same year, Jack and I went to Alabama with another contributor of the P-L board to do some deer hunting.

Since then, I have hosted his wife in Kyiv and have visited with one of his tour groups just to see if anyone needed anything. On both occasions my wife, Olya, was with me.

I began travling widely throughout Ukraine in 1998. Because of my travels, I had formed quite a large network of service providers whom I knew well and trusted. At various times, I have recommended them to Jack and they have become trusted service providers to Jack and his company.

In return, when I needed some technical assistance with the website development, one of Jack's employees offered some time to work with me.

There has never been a single nickel exchanged between Jack and me.

I know Jack. I like him. I occasionally disagree with him - as may be seen in this very thread. I do not hesitate, and never have, to tell Jack if I believe he has stepped over the line.

As for those rumours - I'd sure be interested in knowing from whence they emanate (that is - who you hear them from )

As I have said before, I am happy to answer any questions you (or anyone else) may have. There is nothing surreptitious going on.

Satisfied?

- Dan

[Jack]

Oh, proof isn't necessary. So it's true then you molest children, right. I heard that you were a child molester and you liked little boys.  Proof is not necessary, right.
 
jb I took someone to court over making claims that they could not prove. YOU are making FALSE allegations jb, I simply ask you to prove what you are saying and you say proof is not necessary?  Then how do you know these are true facts jb?  From hearsay jb. Or am I wrong? Please tell me how you know your allegations are true facts?

[Admin]

Hey jb, you like being called a liar? Probably not.

I will ask you now to prove that on the site you are referring to that I posed as a newby having trouble with a RW relationship and then I rescued such person. jb prove I used more than one identify BEFORE I was banned! You can't do it jb. Your only going on what Marty/camergurl made up. Or don't you remember the quote from the infamous camergurl, "I am100% Jack Bragg and BarryM are the same person". And what did camergurl do when he found out he was wrong? Nothing. Not a thing. Did he have the balls, the high morals and ethics to go back and tell the board he was wrong? Nope, just let it stay, no problem. And what did he tell you when he knew he had made many false claims? Nothing.

JB I am calling you a liar unless you can prove I used more than one identiy before being banned and I am calling you a liar unless you can prove I posed as a newby having a RW relationship probelm and then FD coming to the rescue. These are just a few of the many untruths being reported on the site you are referring too. You have NO proof, you have hersay. And I will be the first to apoligize to you for calling you a liar if you can prove you are right, which would be impossiable to do. Just pure fabriaction JB. Give dates, show me the writing of this newby who was having RW relationship problems, YOU CAN'T do it jb, NEVER happened.

OK - let's leave that over at that other board. No need to have that spill over onto this one.

- Dan

[jb]

Well, that's it for me.

Adios, via con Dias

[RacerX]

Satisfied?

- Dan

yes, thank you both (Jack) for answering something that usually off-limits as a board topic - BTW, I think RWD is great!

[Maxx]

Lawsuits can start happening again if people don't cool off. If they don't the costs of the litigation will make a concession and settlement necessary even if they are within their rights or did the right thing. "Winning" in these cases proves nothing on who is right or wrong or wronged. 

Maxx

     

[Bruno]

Jack, I don't think I've made a mistake to remind you of old history, WRT to multi-online idents and screen names, whatever you wish to call it, you are as guilty as sin, and you know it. You prefected the plan to come onto a board, pretending to be a rank newbie having trouble with a RW relationship, then, under another id, rescue the troubled newbie and give all credit to the First Dream Agency for all this wisdom. I saw you do it several times myself.

Don't kid yourself into thinking you are squeaky clean, we know better.

Whenever I see the screen name "Landscaper" I get flashbacks.

Me too, the name "Landscaper" give me flash back...

In these topic, i have complain when someone have ask to ban landscaper... i have complain when Dan have censured some part of the post... and after this, i was not more able to log...

If i good understand, JB think that Jack and Landscaper are the same person... Really, it is easy to check if they are same people... just ask to Dan for check the IP in his log... so, we will know who lie and who say the true...

[Admin]

Me too, the name "Landscaper" give me flash back...

In these topic, i have complain when someone have ask to ban landscaper... i have complain when Dan have censured some part of the post... and after this, i was not more able to log...

If i good understand, JB think that Jack and Landscaper are the same person... Really, it is easy to check if they are same people... just ask to Dan for check the IP in his log... so, we will know who lie and who say the true...

Bruno,

No, the landscaper who posted here is NOT the same as Jack.

- Dan

[jb]

jb I took someone to court over making claims that they could not prove. YOU are making FALSE allegations jb, I simply ask you to prove what you are saying and you say proof is not necessary?  Then how do you know these are true facts jb?  From hearsay jb. Or am I wrong? Please tell me how you know your allegations are true facts?

Take me to court, at your leisure, have a go at me if you wish.  You will find a different stress level here in Neuces County, the courts here will probably laugh you out of town, You got lucky in Dallas, it probably won't go as you wish down here. We recognize a charlitan when we see one.

[corncrowe]

Way back when (2000, or so) when I was an active contributor to the Brama (Ukraine travel) board,

Dan,

Is this the old Travel Chernovtsy message board on Brama?  I remember that board so fondly.  Whatever happened to Anatasia?  The Baron even posted there for a while until she just got smarter.

Wow, I went to that old board a couple weeks ago just to remind myself how much trouble went on there...

Ironically, that's where I first met Jack online...then again five years later in Dallas.  I agree, Jack is an interesting guy and I too like him...

P.S.  I have no financial interest in either this board or First Dreams!!!

Jon

[Maxx]

I dug this up on a link Landscaper provided here at RWD. Just a refresher of what all the bruhaha is and was all about...

Randy2 wrote this
 

Apparently he thinks glowing TRs and recommendations are a good marketing strategy (which, generally speaking, they are) -- however, if mixed in among those postings are denigrating comments and slurs about other agencies or service providers, then it tends to erupt into flame-fests.

What people tend to forget is -- this is a private bulletin board. You participate according to the terms of use -- or you aren't allowed to participate. Its that simple. It is NOT a freedom of speech issue -- its a private bulletin board.

I think Jack is ticked off because this board has grown to the point where it is one of the largest and most respected sources of information about RWs and his banishment denies him the opportunity to put his services in front of thousands of eyes.

And -- these continuing discussions about him does get his name in front of those eyes -- despite the fact he has been banned. So -- if nothing else, one has to say he's persistent.

 
Anono posted on behalf of Leslie_D 
 

Back in January 2003 there was a blow up on RWG. It was in fact fall out from a much more serious argument on Planet Love where there was positive proof that Jack had used a "troll" account to promote his business. I read the threads on RWG before Spencer deleted them. As a result of this fracas Spencer banned Jack from RWG even though he never posted on those threads. Jack then began to pressure me to influence Spencer to get him reinstated on RWG. This I could not do. Spencer did not want the flames and strife from the "trolls" which hound Jack on the boards. Jack began to question the independence of the RWG board on other public forums. He felt he had been treated unfairly (I partially agreed) and his attitude turned rancorous. He made (at that time) certain assertions that Spencer had "sold out" and was taking in advertising revenue from "scam" agencies. I had NO evidence that this was true. I began to distance myself from Jack. I never felt he was never telling me the whole story. Sometimes his attempts to manipulate me were laughably crude. Really I had no wish to become embroiled in this situation. I finally had enough just before my Trip in May 2003. I cancelled my trip arrangements with FD and went to Ukraine for 5 weeks on my own arrangements. I have not contacted Jack since.

Jack's personal style has made him a LOT of enemies on the internet. In a real sense he can be his own worst enemy. He is almost "evangelical" in promoting his approach to finding a wife in FSU. I never subscribed to this though I recognize that he is VERY knowledgeable. If you post contrary views Jack can be very personally insulting - you should ask JB or Mark in Texas about this!! Jack also actively uses the internet boards to promote his business. I have read (on Planet Love) that Jack and Spencer are involved in a law suit. If they are sensible this will be quietly dropped. IMHO neither side will win and a great deal of mud will be slung to the detriment of both sides and the public image of our mutual endeavor. I want to make one thing very clear. I want nothing to do with this. It is none of my business.



Anono (Robert) is not Jack's Schill. I have known him for some time and he is a genuine guy who is seeking a wife in Ukraine. He is a very satisfied with the service he has received from First Dream and is prepared to say so in his trip reports. Marty (Cameraguy) you should drop your personal vendetta against Jack. You have NEVER done any business with him. Your mutual antagonism is based only on postings made on the internet boards. Enough has been said.



Randy makes some interesting points. Robert's trip reports promote Jack's business; but so what if RWG purports to be an independent discussion board?? Are ALL trip reports which promote an agency's services to be banned? I know that RWG is NOT an independent board. It is Spencer's private property and is managed to support his commercial agenda. The main reason for my resignation as a moderator and member of RWG was my unwillingness to support Spencer's editorial policy. The current situation where Jacks name and that of his business are included in the foul language lexicon is extremely childish. Spencer, in view of the pending lawsuit why not openly ban all reference to Jack and his business on RWG by making and additional statement in the terms of use?? This would be understandable and would clarify this situation in an open and honest way.



I no longer participate on any of the internet message boards. Now that I am happily married, I have neither the time or the inclination. Finally may I wish my many friends here good luck and success in this endeavor. Truly, it is worth all the effort.



Leslie_D

 

[BC]

Instead of dredging old ditches why not constructively discuss new stuff..

Jack, what was your motivation for starting this thread? Public service?