What women want...

[chernoble]

Ok this is really difficult for me to explain properly but here goes.  I am planning on a trip to Kiev this summer and it feels great.  I met this wonderful person and we have spoken on the phone and chatted online.  Her English is great but she needs to learn some more vocabulary words which I am very happy to help her with.  I am planning on bringing some Russian-English books with me to help her English skills and I am interested in learning more of her language and having her teach me Russian.  I just want to know from Russian/FSU women do they think this kind of thing can get boring?  My greatest concern in my trip is that I dont bore her or have her lose interest in me.  I want to do everything I can to make this work.  It really means a lot to me.

What do FSU women expect of American men who visit them?  To show them a good time?  I can do that by going to restaurants, amusement parks, etc.  She had said she would show me around the city when I come to Kiev this summer so I really want this to work out and I want her to see the real person inside of me as an honest caring human being.  I admit I don't have a lot of experience in social skills but I don't want that to make me any less of a man than anyone else.  I have already changed a lot and I want to change more for her and myself.

Opinions are appreciated thanks.

[Shadow]

Have you met her in person yet ? If not (as I seem to conclude from your post) it will be a first trip.
What a woman expects from the first trip is to get to know you in real life, and compare it to the image in her mind. This can happen in the first 5 minutes already. Then she will expect that you want to know a lot about her life, her family and friends, and the city/country.

You are expected to have interest in local culture and background, and to have some things you would like to see. You should not take this as an excuse to make her a tourist guide. Instead you should take her suggestions to see the parks and have a walk there while talking. Maybe her friends want to meet you (good sign) or get busy at the last moment (bad sign).
If it gets really serious, expect to be introduced to the parents. Do not see this as a sign to pop the question at first trip, but as a sign that she feels you are marriage material.

She will expect you to be interested in and follow local customs, and she will watch out that the men do not feed you too much drinks.

Use the tourist attractions as escape when things go less than optimal, and take her suggestions without becoming her slave.

[chernoble]

Oh man this is making me sweat even before meeting them.  I have to look good to both her and her friends.  I just know my body reaction will be shyness no matter how much I try to beat it out of me when I first see them.  I have to somehow be interesting for everyone and I am not used to being the center of attention.  Is it ok to spend money for her friends coming along with us when we eat, go out, etc?  Should I ask her to meet me at the airport when I get there?

And I take it you mean I use the tourist attractions as an escape from her friends and bring her along with me?

[Shadow]

Shyness will go when needed, don't worry. What you should worry about is not getting up your expectations too high before you even meet. This is what I was trying to say about the tourist attractions.
If things go well, you might not see a lot of them. If things go less, you might see too many.

But the most important thing you must do now is not allow yourself to get carried away. No matter how nice the pictures, no matter how sweet the letters, no matter how much fun the phone calls or chats. It can be lost in the first day.

Regarding her friends, it is ok to spend money on them, but do not overdo it. If the friends are impressed with you, they will want to do something for you. And you should avoid hurting their pride or coming over as a guy who waves around his wallet to impress.

[Daveman]

Shadow has given you some great info... read it twice.

Listen, let me tell you my simple secret for successful meetings which works for me like a charm... didn't say they lead to marriage :-), but makes the meetings go without a hitch.

Just don't take it, yourself, or anything at all about it too seriously... relax,  you are a charming and confident man, all women adore you, and so will she... right?  If you try to walk on eggshells you will look ridiculous..

"I'm bad, I'm here, and I chose to visit you.. let's have some fun"..  The real key to success is you have to be able to truly not care about the outcome..  not caring whether or not she likes you lends you a relaxed affect and inspires a confident demeanor that will not only allow you to be yourself and very naturally impressive, but will completely blow a woman's mind.  Not cockiness, just complete and absolute confident control (of yourself and situations). 

You chose to be there and you can choose to walk away at any time.. doesn't that give you a feeling of confident power over your destiny?  

Confidence.... it's a magnet..

Good luck on the trip.. still a ways away, so as mentioned.. don't build it up in your mind to be anything more significant that it actually is... a first date with one woman out of a sea of millions on the planet YOU chose to meet.

Dave

[chernoble]

If it gets really serious, expect to be introduced to the parents. Do not see this as a sign to pop the question at first trip, but as a sign that she feels you are marriage material.

Shadow I need to know why is it a bad idea to ask for marriage in the first trip?  If we really like each other and she introduces me to the family what is the probability she will say no?  Because if it really works out for us and I can only come once a year I really don't want to keep her waiting.  This is not something that can be done over the phone.  I remember how Taz wrote that friend of his kept a woman waiting a year and that killed things so if I can only go there once or (under emergency circumstances maybe twice) this is something I will definitely leave as an option IF we hit it off and have a real connection with each other.

Also do you think it is better to buy a ring in Ukraine or USA??  Are the rings the same quality or could I be scammed shopping for such jewelry in Ukraine?

And I think it does sound like a good idea for me to ask her to meet me at airport seems romantic IMO 

[jb]

chernoble,

Why can you only go once a year?

[MaxxumUSA]

Chernoble...

I know others will possibly give me a second circumcision saying this...  But I think it is OK to propose on your first visit.  BUT...  I would have some serious conversations with her way before doing this about many things in life.

Also - I would be cautious to make sure what I know about her via telephone and Internet is what she is about in real life.

In addition to that it is my opinion that you also need to feel a soul mate and/or best friend connection in order to seriously think about marriage and make that decision on your first visit.

I say all this because this is what I did.  I met my wife online and within 5 or 6 weeks I was visiting her and we committed to become married.  I did not officially propose because I was already planning another visit.  But if I had visitation constraints I most certainly would have proposed that first visit.

How long will your first visit be?  If it is only a few days I would try to change your plans so that you could take another short visit a month or two later to propose.  If it is 2 weeks or more you might have enough time to get an idea of whether you two are wanting to take a shot.

Like others said above - confidence is attractive to women.  All women - not only russian women.  Save all that sensitive mamsy pamsy crap for your wedding vows and while you're over there be a man.  Be a gentleman.  And yes - expect to foot the bill for all activities.  If friends of hers join you and offer to pitch in then by all means use your best judgement.  But for your lady pay for all meals, activities, etc.  Even if she offers insist on paying because you are the man.  Trust me on this one.  My wife has many RW GF's that have foreigners visit them and they all compare them to me.  These poor guys get kicked to the curb pretty fast because I have set a high standard. 

Other things you should do is take a lot of american souvegniers (sp?) and/or knick knacks for her friends and family.  Cigarettes are usually a winner for some of her friends and family - I can assure you some or all of them will smoke and appreciate american smokes.  Get them at the duty free shop.  Only $2.60 per pack there.  Take a carton.

You don't need to "Take charge" and be in control of all the plans.  After all this is her city and she is hosting you.  She will happily take on this project.  What you CAN do is a little research of a nice restaurant and surprise her a few times with plans you have made.  If you have contacts in the town she lives from this forum or elsewhere then you can use them to help you make a few little surprises.  I did this with my woman and she was not only surprised - but the mystery and suspense of what plans we had was quite romantic.

If you're a drinker then maybe you can have a few cocktails to help with your shyness.  Don't overdo it but hey - enjoy your time and relax.

Like I mentioned in another thread...  You will get whiplash from all the beautiful women.  DO NOT be intimidated by them at all.  Just enjoy their company and by all means let them enjoy yours.

Back to the marriage proposal...  Have you had discussions about marriage being your goal?  Does the have this desire/goal?  Does she know that you are meeting for the possibility of serious relations only and you are not a sex tourist?

Just curious as to how much you have already discussed.

Also...  you say you can only visit once a year.  Why?  Financial?  Time off from work?

Why are you waiting for summer?

I know I'm not a RW but I am married to a very happy one that is here in the US for a little bit now.  I also spent 2 months in Russia last year during my 4 visits.

[Jet]

Shadow I need to know why is it a bad idea to ask for marriage in the first trip?  If we really like each other and she introduces me to the family what is the probability she will say no?

Do you make a habit of asking girls to marry you on the first date? Do you REALLY want a wife that would agree to marry someone she barely knows?
The probability that she'll say "no" is directly proportional to her intelligence/desperation level. 

Because if it really works out for us and I can only come once a year I really don't want to keep her waiting.  This is not something that can be done over the phone.  I remember how Taz wrote that friend of his kept a woman waiting a year and that killed things so if I can only go there once or (under emergency circumstances maybe twice) this is something I will definitely leave as an option IF we hit it off and have a real connection with each other.

It's a pretty big "IF" for a penpal. In the BEST case, I'd leave her to think about the possibility of living in a foreign country. If she can comeback with an answer in the affirmative a month or two down the road, after reality has had time to set back in, then you can start making additional plans. Right now you seem to have the cart WAY out in front of the horse.

Also do you think it is better to buy a ring in Ukraine or USA??  Are the rings the same quality or could I be scammed shopping for such jewelry in Ukraine?

You should really take some time to study the culture of this woman you are infatuated with. There is no "engagement ring" in the culture of the FSU (former Soviet Union). By now they know what it is, and may even hope to see one if courting with a foreigner, but they'd not expect it from a Russian or Ukrainian Man.
 

And I think it does sound like a good idea for me to ask her to meet me at airport seems romantic IMO 

What's more romantic, is letting her know your travel itinerary well in advance, and letting her suggest she meet you at the airport, rather than pressuring her into it 

[Daveman]

I guess not caring about the outcome is absolutely out the window...

Her English is great, you said... so hopefully you can communicate very openly and easily about anything and everything.

Still, you must understand and accept that this one visit proposal approach, without follow up visits to keep the romance and passion burning with face to face time is enormously high risk (I'd say it's even 'risky' that you'll make it all the way to the meeting in summer - you probably will if you remain "friends", but going for the gusto and trying to grow the flower without the soil.. it rarely works and usually just burns out).  Even if it goes well, and you have chemistry, etc..  you might not have a solid enough foundation to withstand the months of waiting for the Visa.  If you are serious about taking this route.. then begin planning your strategy to use that "Emergency" visit to head over again in the middle of the waiting period. 

If you use Max's story as an example.. remember - he also spent over two months of face time with her spread out over the time period........ that in itself changes things considerably from his situation to yours.  It doesn't extrapolate well.

Not our lives nor our decision, but know that this scenario as you described it has a rather dismal success rate.

[Gator]

Chernoble,

I have mentioned to you before that you are not ready for this.  You are young, have little experience with women, and can spend little time in the FSU.  These women are not you salvation for your loneliness.  If I recall correctly, I was also concerned about the type of woman you were attracted to when you first started posting here.

I feel for your predicament, but you are setting yourself up for possible failure.

I encourage you to go to the FSU, yet you should go only to meet this woman and to see what this is all about.   You should not go with the expectations of becoming engaged, starting visa paperwork, etc.  Having those expectations may make you overlook some very important considerations such as whether the two of you are indeed compatible.   

If you discover that this woman is as special as you hope she is, you will somehow find time to see her again and again.

[Serebro]

What do FSU women expect of American men who visit them?  To show them a good time?  I can do that by going to restaurants, amusement parks, etc.  She had said she would show me around the city when I come to Kiev this summer so I really want this to work out and I want her to see the real person inside of me as an honest caring human being.  I admit I don't have a lot of experience in social skills but I don't want that to make me any less of a man than anyone else.  I have already changed a lot and I want to change more for her and myself.

Opinions are appreciated thanks.

Do not try to look better than you are.One day when you get tired of pretending to be what you are not she will be more dissapointed...

it is always sad to compare:
-what he was like at the beginning
-what he is  like now...
Like he seemed to be excited about everything: like he wanted to read your favourite book, to see your favourite movie, to learn your language, but every time you ask him about the book he says that he didn't have much time to read it, and when you try to teach him your language he just smiles and says that "maybe some other time as he is tired at the moment"...

I don't think that the main thing a GOOD woman want to get from the trip, especially from your first trip is having a good time like visiting restaurants and amusement parks...
Visiting all these places is a less important  thing which is practised to have more oportunities to know each other, not as the main purpose of your visit.

[I/O]

Chernoble: If you know your way around women in the west, you shouldn't need to ask many of these questions, if you don't know your way around women near home, don't bother leaving home, you are wasting your time and money. International dating is not entry level dating.

I/O

[Shadow]

Chernoble if you hit it off you are in for a real challenge. The reasons why not to marry her on a first trip are already explained, not enough time together. If you can only make one trip a year, how do you imagine things after proposed and are back home ?
It will take at least 6 months to get a K-1, during which time you must keep the romance flowing.
In my own, and many others experience, a long delay between visits, even if you are both 100% in love, will kill the starting relationship.
The reason is that you will not be there in person to reassure her, to help her, to answer on doubts cast by others.

[chernoble]

Chernoble...

I know others will possibly give me a second circumcision saying this...  But I think it is OK to propose on your first visit.  BUT...  I would have some serious conversations with her way before doing this about many things in life.

Also - I would be cautious to make sure what I know about her via telephone and Internet is what she is about in real life.

In addition to that it is my opinion that you also need to feel a soul mate and/or best friend connection in order to seriously think about marriage and make that decision on your first visit.

I say all this because this is what I did.  I met my wife online and within 5 or 6 weeks I was visiting her and we committed to become married.  I did not officially propose because I was already planning another visit.  But if I had visitation constraints I most certainly would have proposed that first visit.

How long will your first visit be?  If it is only a few days I would try to change your plans so that you could take another short visit a month or two later to propose.  If it is 2 weeks or more you might have enough time to get an idea of whether you two are wanting to take a shot.

What kind of things should I talk with her about before bringing up the question?  Im not gonna tell her about my marriage proposal in email.  Im gonna wait until we know each other in person and we both have good feelings with each other.

Well then I'll plan to make a 1 or 2 month visit. (I was originally going for a 3-4 week one)  I'm going to have to find an apartment for this so the hotels won't drain me dry.  Anyone know any good deals in Kiev not too low quality please

Like others said above - confidence is attractive to women.  All women - not only russian women.  Save all that sensitive mamsy pamsy crap for your wedding vows and while you're over there be a man.  Be a gentleman.  And yes - expect to foot the bill for all activities.  If friends of hers join you and offer to pitch in then by all means use your best judgement.  But for your lady pay for all meals, activities, etc.  Even if she offers insist on paying because you are the man.  Trust me on this one.  My wife has many RW GF's that have foreigners visit them and they all compare them to me.  These poor guys get kicked to the curb pretty fast because I have set a high standard. 

Other things you should do is take a lot of american souvegniers (sp?) and/or knick knacks for her friends and family.  Cigarettes are usually a winner for some of her friends and family - I can assure you some or all of them will smoke and appreciate american smokes.  Get them at the duty free shop.  Only $2.60 per pack there.  Take a carton.

Yeah I plan to be very confident sure of myself.  I will NOT be indecisive when it comes to making decisions in front of her whether small or big things.  If she asks me where I want to eat I will choose a place for her but I will let her give me the tour around the city and go to any good places she suggests but I will also pack my own suggestion list.  I plan to teach her some English while Im there and she can teach me some basic Russian so we can have better communication with each other.  She speaks good english but her vocabulary is a little limited.

I also plan to bribe her friends and parents. I'm gonna have to ask her if they smoke or like alcohol b/c there are people in Ukraine who don't smoke or drink.

You don't need to "Take charge" and be in control of all the plans.  After all this is her city and she is hosting you.  She will happily take on this project.  What you CAN do is a little research of a nice restaurant and surprise her a few times with plans you have made.  If you have contacts in the town she lives from this forum or elsewhere then you can use them to help you make a few little surprises.  I did this with my woman and she was not only surprised - but the mystery and suspense of what plans we had was quite romantic.

If you're a drinker then maybe you can have a few cocktails to help with your shyness.  Don't overdo it but hey - enjoy your time and relax.

I know but I've never really drank vodka before (except for a few sips of a screwdriver 7 years ago).  I never drank more than 2 glasses of wine and that was last year ago so I don't know if I will get drunk with more.  I'll go along with their local culture it will probably be fun!

Like I mentioned in another thread...  You will get whiplash from all the beautiful women.  DO NOT be intimidated by them at all.  Just enjoy their company and by all means let them enjoy yours.

Back to the marriage proposal...  Have you had discussions about marriage being your goal?  Does the have this desire/goal?  Does she know that you are meeting for the possibility of serious relations only and you are not a sex tourist?

Just curious as to how much you have already discussed.

I didn't really discuss it with her yet.  I'm planning to talk about it with her but in an indirect kind of way.  I will ask what she sees in the future and if she was ever considering moving to a foreign land.  But I want to build up the relationship more before we get too indepth.

I could visit her again if need be but it would be a short kind of visit like 1 or 2 week thing in fall or next early Jan.

[chernoble]

Do not try to look better than you are.One day when you get tired of pretending to be what you are not she will be more dissapointed...

it is always sad to compare:
-what he was like at the beginning
-what he is  like now...
Like he seemed to be excited about everything: like he wanted to read your favourite book, to see your favourite movie, to learn your language, but every time you ask him about the book he says that he didn't have much time to read it, and when you try to teach him your language he just smiles and says that "maybe some other time as he is tired at the moment"...

I don't think that the main thing a GOOD woman want to get from the trip, especially from your first trip is having a good time like visiting restaurants and amusement parks...
Visiting all these places is a less important  thing which is practised to have more oportunities to know each other, not as the main purpose of your visit.

I am serious about learning the language.  You are talking about a possible someone I will spend the rest ofmy life with and start a family with.  If it gets to that level I do want to learn her culture and language as much out of respect for her as well as my own interest.  Besides there are lots of things about FSU and Soviet Union I am interested in.  Like the military history of WWII and all sorts of Russian/Ukrainian technology and science.  Its very fascinating to me.

[Gator]

Mon Cherie wrote,

I will ask what she sees in the future and if she was ever considering moving to a foreign land.  But I want to build up the relationship more before we get too indepth.

If you are doing a WOVO, these are exactly the types of questions you should be asking before you decide to make the trip.

What are you talking about these days with her?  You need to learn what makes her tick, her goals, her values, her intellectual capacity, mutual compatibility, etc. before committing to a long trip.  This venture is far more than finding a pretty face who speaks English.

Does she know that you want to spend 3-4 weeks with her on a 24-7 basis?  She has a job, yes?  There is a lot of solitary time if she is still working.  I have been this route, and these women have a busy life so it is difficult to make herself available.  And now you are talking about two months!!!!

If you do persist to follow this route, I suggest that you do a 10-day trip and follow it up with a 2-month trip if the two of you like each other.


This woman is young, yes?  Read DKMM's and FSURookie's threads about hooking up with young UW and RW.  Both men fell well short of their target, and I assert both had much more experience with women than you do.

Careful.  Careful.  Careful.

[jb]

chernoble,

Like most things, and problems, you will ever encounter, building a relationship, a solid relationship, upon which a couple can base a lifelong marriage,,, well, the devil is in the details.  You simply cannot learn all the details in such a short time.  It is silly and even dangerous to think in that way.  Your situation that prevents you from frequent travel is going to be the hardest hurdle to over come.   There are some here who will encourage you to use the 90 day K-1 visa as a "trial marriage", where you can learn if you and she have real love for each other.  Frankly, I think that's a mistake, if at the end of 90 days you decide to send her home, IMHO, that is borderline abuse.  She will have quit her job and said goodbye to family and friends, so she goes home, humiliated and disgraced, she will have to hunt for another job, will have lost whatever seniority and comfort she had, basically she has to start her life from scratch.   Is that what you want?  Are you willing to support her with a stipend until she is up and running again?

Think long and hard about this thing which you are contemplating.

[MaxxumUSA]

Before I get into the other things on my mind...  I need to let you know my concern in your situation.  It seems you are emailing now and have talked on the phone only a few times.  Comparing this to my situation it is different.  Me and Elena emailed very little.  Maybe two or three emails in the beginning and then once every week or two after that.  Most of our communication was via SMS, cell phone, home phones, skype chat, and web cams.  After our third email we started talking live via skype and webcams almost every single day for at least 45 minutes.  Typically 15 minutes in the morning before she went to work then another 1/2 hour or so before she went to sleep after work.

As for "teaching" her english...  FOR ME...  I know if I tried to correct mistakes in my wife's conversation to help her learn english all the time - it would wear on our relationship.  As a matter of fact the first few weeks most of the time I spoke in written russian using google language tools to translate back and forth in russian via skype chat.  Her spoken english quickly and naturally progressed as we talked on a daily basis.  Today - after one year of communicating with me - she only needs the translator once or twice a week or so for a word here and there.

If you plan to visit for a long period of time be prepared to spend a lot of time waiting for her to get out of work.  Most women that I know in Russia worked long hours - like 10-12 per day - and at least 5 days a week but probably 6.  My wife worked 6 or 7 days per week.  When I visited she took time off but I needed to help her a little with money to help replace her loss of income due to my visits.

As for marriage conversations...
First of all - she would (probably) not be talking with you if she was not interested in relocating internationally.  These women "Know the deal" in many respects.  They know that if they meet a foreigner and fall in love that there will probably be a proposal and a visa process for her to move.  She knows a foreigner will probably not be interested in moving to live in her town for marriage.

Having said that - I would NOT assume that this woman is serious about ME unless there was some clear, to the point, and direct conversation about such a possibility.  For me I said this in my very first introduction email.  I said "I am ONLY interested in serious relations leading to marriage."

When I was talking with my now wife in the very beginning I restated this directly and even added a requirement that she have.  I told her that if she is not interested in marriage then please inform me.  I did not say "if you're not going to marry me" rather I said "Are you interested in marriage?"

But - YES.  I made it clear and direct that I was coming to meet her and that the reason for my travels were to find a wife for a long term lifelong partnership in marriage.  I did not make this the focus of every conversation and email.  But I did take a break from the fluffy get to know you fun stuff and have some serious conversation about this.

Same as I did this approach in writing I also used this approach on my first visit.  I spent almost all of my time focused on just enjoying her company, having fun with each other, bonding physically, and meeting friends/family.  Then on the very last night we sat down and had a serious conversation, admitting to each other we wanted this fun to turn into a lifelong relationship.

Ok...  bribing parents and friends...  Hey...  worked for me!  LOL  But seriously - I did take at least a little something for everyone.  I also took extra goodies in case I forgot some.

We're all giving you a lot to think about... 
Good luck.

- Maxxum

What kind of things should I talk with her about before bringing up the question?  Im not gonna tell her about my marriage proposal in email.  Im gonna wait until we know each other in person and we both have good feelings with each other.

Well then I'll plan to make a 1 or 2 month visit. (I was originally going for a 3-4 week one)  I'm going to have to find an apartment for this so the hotels won't drain me dry.  Anyone know any good deals in Kiev not too low quality please

Yeah I plan to be very confident sure of myself.  I will NOT be indecisive when it comes to making decisions in front of her whether small or big things.  If she asks me where I want to eat I will choose a place for her but I will let her give me the tour around the city and go to any good places she suggests but I will also pack my own suggestion list.  I plan to teach her some English while Im there and she can teach me some basic Russian so we can have better communication with each other.  She speaks good english but her vocabulary is a little limited.

I also plan to bribe her friends and parents. I'm gonna have to ask her if they smoke or like alcohol b/c there are people in Ukraine who don't smoke or drink.

I know but I've never really drank vodka before (except for a few sips of a screwdriver 7 years ago).  I never drank more than 2 glasses of wine and that was last year ago so I don't know if I will get drunk with more.  I'll go along with their local culture it will probably be fun!

I didn't really discuss it with her yet.  I'm planning to talk about it with her but in an indirect kind of way.  I will ask what she sees in the future and if she was ever considering moving to a foreign land.  But I want to build up the relationship more before we get too indepth.

I could visit her again if need be but it would be a short kind of visit like 1 or 2 week thing in fall or next early Jan.

[catzenmouse]

I surely do hope that the synapses start firing soon.

What is it with all these trains around here recently? Before long someone will be shouting to the engineer that the bridge is out...

[BillyB]

chernoble, most men entering this endeavor try and fail. Figure out what you need to do to increase your odds of success and if the woman isn't into you, there isn't much you can do so don't try to force a relationship if things aren't right. As of now, you're betting a lot that this woman is the ONE. She may be but the odds aren't in your favor.

[Makkin]

JB,

  That was very good advice and concern for the woman and her job,friends,lifestyle..etc..It shows your concern and forward thinking about the women in general.
   If I were in this persons shoes (chernobe) I'd listen to you on not starting a visa for a test run and to better attempt to visit for extended periods of time in possibly her country first and then a neutral country of each others choosing.
  Very good advice JB.

Makkin

[chernoble]

Ok first off I appreciate all the advice given it makes the situation very clear for me.
Let me say a few things about myself and my values.  I come from a family with a certain culture that I grew up with and I personally have certain different moral codes inside me that may be unconventional and when I say I'll marry her if we truly LOVE each other I don't mean a trial marriage of the 90 day waiting period I mean I will walk down the aisle and file the marriage paperwork on Day 1 as soon as its practically possible.  Translation: I mean I will not leave her or treat the 90 days as a trial marriage, I will see it as a REAL marriage PERIOD. 

The ONLY situation that could convince me to leave her during that time is if one of the following things happen: She tries to murder me or anyone else, there is overwhelming evidence that she married me as a gold-digger/passport seeker and she doesnt give a damn about me, she commits a terrorist act or she commits some very serious crime.  Even if we don't get along I understand there are rough patches in every relationship and life isn't perfect least of all myself.  I owe it to her as much out of affection as loyalty for her sacrifice in coming with me to a strange new land and choosing me over the local boys in her town.

Now I have been thinking of talking with her on the phone.  I only called her once before.  Now I have 2 phone cards for her and I want to ask her in the next email about calling her on days when its good for her and all.  But theres the language problem.  She does not have a camera on her computer so the best we can do is call each other when shes at computer and I can try translating my English into Russian on  this GREAT translation site called http://translation2.paralink.com/  and she can write English to me when I don't understand certain things she said.

I said she spoke good english but she does not know certain words and has to look it up.  I'm a little hesitant about calling her if it inconveniences her but I truly love to hear her voice its like an angel's voice and we laugh so much on the phone that time!  Since theres a 7 hour time difference I can call her at night and it would be morning for her or I'll call at noon and its going to be evening for her.  She does not work she goes to school. 

[catzenmouse]

Chernoble,

 The simple straight answer here is this: To be thinking about, considering, or planning ANYTHING to do with marriage BEFORE you have met is silly and stupid at best and totally wacko bonkers insane at worst.

 Get to know her, get to know how the two of you are together, make as many trips as needed for you BOTH to be sure about this then, and only then, consider the marriage part.

 It really seems that there is no horse here at all and you just have a cart with a fantasy of a horse in front of it.

FWIW,
 Ken

[Daveman]

Now I have been thinking of talking with her on the phone.  I only called her once before. ..But theres the language problem. ..I said she spoke good english but she does not know certain words and has to look it up.  I'm a little hesitant about calling her if it inconveniences her but I truly love to hear her voice its like an angel's voice and we laugh so much on the phone that time! 

Chernoble... DUDE... read what you are writing here.... seriously... why in the world are you already talking about visas, proposals, engagements... you've had ONE real conversation with this woman..

Slow down... get the horse back out there in front of the cart where it should be...

Laughter is a GREAT thing for sure... and a good sign to CONTINUE TO COMMUNICATE... nothing more nor less..

Reel your head in from the stratosphere and see this for what it is and not what you DREAM it is...  dreams are wonderful, but there are ways to make them real and ways to ensure they remain dreams.. get grounded so you can really make it happen...

Dave


yeah... what Catz  said...