KenC's T/R 10 years late

[AnastassiaAsh]

ha-ha-ha-ha! Wow, this is so good! I am telling you, Ken, there is always something more than you might not know.    ...even about yourself. 

[Daveman]

LoL... darn half-week wonders... both of 'em... 

[Gator]

Daveman,

darn half-week wonders... both of 'em...   

 

It is even worse - Ken fell in love with a photo (some justification considering how Lena looks).

Six pages already in your story and only one brief dinner date with Lena, one bad night of sleep, and an impromptu meeting with another woman.  Keep it up.  This could set a record.

[SANDRO43]

LoL... darn half-week wonders... both of 'em... 

Mods, I think that KenC should be banned for figuring that out after nine years, thereby destroying every shred of hope we might have harboured of ever understanding what goes on in the mind of a FSUW .

[KenC]

Meeting the ladies and the guys
LTP had two other side rooms.  One was for their Internet operators that were always busy interpretating letters (incoming and outgoing) and the other for meetings/interviews between clients and the women.

I was scheduled to meet 2 or 3 women in the morning and afternoon and couple more a little later.  I have heard of many men that have had problems with “no shows” but that was not a problem for me. 

The first woman I met that day was Tatiana.  She was an attractive 27 year old with limited English.  She wasn’t quite as attractive in persona as she was in her photos and I found it extremely awkward to converse with her trough the terp.  Still she was genuine and sincere, which I found very attractive.  Our chit chat was light and not very revealing of anything too deep.  Being a total rookie at this, I invited Tatiana to dinner later. 

My next meeting was with an artist type of girl.  I thought she would be a fun person to be with.  I was right.  She was funny, cheerful and had a borderline goofy personality.  But there was no “chemistry” between us and the appointment didn’t really go anywhere.

In between appointments, I would go smoke and shoot the bull with Marc in the video room.  I think he was starved for anything American.  He had married a Tver woman a year before and lived in Tver while working for LTP.  He didn’t like being in Russia and it showed.  I also got to meet a few of the other male clients that day. 

There was an older man (maybe 60) that had had the most miserable luck.  He had been in Moscow a few days before.  He was going crazy taking a lot of photos when a government car drove by.  It was described as a big old Mercedes with flags on the front fenders.  This guy was snapping photo after photo right up until he was arrested.  The police took him to jail, confiscated his camera and made him pay a big fine and released him the following day.  Marc also informed me he was striking out with the ladies as well.

I met an Indian doctor from Michigan.  From our conversation I knew he was well heeled but he was shy and was not having any luck with the women.  Many “no shows” and the ones that did come to meet him were not interested.  Not a bad guy, about my age at the time (mid 40’s) but far from being personable and a bit inept around women.

The third guy I met was a hoot.  He was in his mid to late 30’s, not bad looking, but hyper as hell.  He was always in a panic mode.  Over the course of my stay in Tver, I saw him bring an armful of roses for a new girl 4 or 5 times.  He had a huge list of girls to meet and was determined to meet them all.  By the end of my trip, he was a total mess.  Dazed and confused would best describe him.  He had met so many women that he couldn’t keep them straight.  He even had his terp call a woman to tell her he was no longer interested in her, but got confused and had her call the wrong woman.  This guy came back to Tver a number of times and the last I heard, he still was not married.

I also briefly met an investment banker from San Diego.  Not a bad looking guy in his late 30’s but what a cocky ass he was.  He was throwing his money around like a drunken sailor.  Nothing was good enough for him.  A true “ugly American” if there ever was one.  Supposedly he had the women all over him and had decided on one particular girl and he was wining and dining her. (More on him later)

Early that evening I met a young woman named Olga.  She was very late for our scheduled meeting.  She was a little older than Lena and a total beauty.  She was sooooo young though.  But she acted like a teenager in heat.  Openly flirtatious and almost throwing herself at me.  There was no question this girl would do anything to bag me.  I had to admit that my male instincts were very attracted to this proposition too.  Like I said, she was a total hottie!   I turned to my terp, and she must have read my mind as she said, “Ken she is so very young.”  That brought me back to reality.  As it was, our meeting ran past the time that I was supposed to meet Tatiana for dinner.   I quickly ended the meeting and thanked Olga for coming.

The dinner date
As Olga, the terp and I left the back office and entered the main office of LTP, there sat Tatiana.  The first RW that had ever been on time and she has to bust me with another woman!  It was kind of unnerving to have the two in the same room at the same time.  What was strange to me though, is neither one of them seemed to mind.  I chalked it up to them being more experienced at this game than I. 

In my nervousness, I failed to see the Indian doctor from Michigan was also in the room.  I thought “poor guy” alone with his terp.  Then he approached me.  He complimented me on my choice of women as he eyed both Tatiana and Olga.  I explained the situation to him briefly.  He then asked if it would be OK if he invited Olga to have dinner with him.  Such a gentleman he was he didn’t want to step on my toes.  I told him to go for it and good luck.

Tatiana, the terp and I were off to dinner at the Hotel Osnobruk one of the better places to eat at the time in Tver.  Tatiana looked very good.  It was obvious that she had taken a lot of time to put herself together for the very best impression possible.  I do have to say that all the women I met put a lot of effort into their appearance for our meetings.

The restaurant in the Hotel Osnobruk was less than impressive to me.  Absolutely zero ambiance.  It was a big room with rows of tables with white linen table cloths with what looked like a portable bar in one corner.  Bright lighting (too bright for a restaurant) with light colored walls.  To me it almost looked clinical.  We got our table near the entrance and Tatiana and the terp sat with their backs to the door way and I across from them facing the door.  Just as we were exchanging some pleasantries, who walks through the door but Olga and the Indian doctor!   And of course Olga gave me a big smile as she entered.  Oh my, this was a little uncomfortable for me.

Tatiana was a sweetheart.  She was a sincere woman with a pleasant personality (as much as I could tell from the language barrier).  I did find talking to her through the terp annoying and almost counterproductive.  There was no way to get a sense of rhythm in the conversation.  Who do you look at while you speak?  The terp or Tatiana?  I never could get a grip on that.  Even with the uncomfortable communication, I could gather that Tatiana was trying her best with me.  We had a pleasant dinner and she shared some photos with me that she had brought.  She was pouring her heart out to me and then a thought struck me.  This young woman is dead serious about getting married and I guess she has already made up her mind that I was a real candidate.  Holy sh!t.  I never considered that.

I began to feel like a total schmuck.  Here I am thinking this is all just a game of casual dating and Tatiana is serious as a heart attack.  How could I be so stupid?  How could I be so inconsiderate to this poor girls feeling?  The longer we talked, the worse I felt about myself.   My mind was flashing back to the other meetings I had with the women, and now I realized that they all were serious.  It wasn’t a game to them. 

And then there was my “distraction” during dinner: Olga.  She and the Doc had taken a table to the right of us.  I had casually looked to see how things were going for the Doc, careful not to offend Tatiana.  “Things” were not going to well for him.  He appeared tongue tied and she appeared bored to tears.  Her actions spoke volumes about her.  Three times during our dinner, Olga left the table with the Doc and went to the ladies room, I imagine was her excuse.  Every time she left she took the opportunity to blatantly flirt with me, both leaving and returning from the rest room.  I am talking about big smiles, winks and even a kiss in my direction.  Neither Tatiana or the terp could see her as their backs were to the door way. 

The whole dinner was like a surreal event to me.  I can understand how men’s minds get a bit twisted when they go to the fsu.  Here I am dinning with one attractive RW who is pouring her heart out to me in an attempt to attract me into a serious relationship and all the while the beautiful vamp is making seductive gestures toward me.  I guess I should have felt flattered and if I was a lesser man, I could have felt a tremendous ego boost, but it all made me feel sad and uncomfortable.

Another change of plans
After my dinner date with Tatiana, I told the terp that I wanted the next morning to myself to think about things.  I also told her not to make any more appointments for me to meet women.

The next morning I did a lot of serious soul searching.  Ok, I came to Russia to meet Lena and that was off to a great start.   LTP talked me into meeting other women.  But was I deceiving these other women into thinking they had a chance to marry me?  I think so and I was feeling very guilty about it.  I decided not to mislead any other women into thinking I was “marriage material.”  I decided to focus on just Lena and if she was unavailable, I would try to see and experience as much of Russia as possible.  As said before, Lena had warned me that my timing for my trip wasn’t the greatest as she had a busy schedule during that time and in fact had family obligations for New Years.  I knew all this before I came.

[Gator]

KenC,

A WOVO man!   Given your feelings for Lena, it was the only alternative.  Besides it was honorable; otherwise, you would give false hopes to some women. 

Some women such as Tatiana are impetuous and on a mission to marry, as much as any man who fell in love with a photo.  Did you think it was desperation, or just the way things were done 8 years ago?

[KenC]

KenC,

A WOVO man!   Given your feelings for Lena, it was the only alternative.  Besides it was honorable; otherwise, you would give false hopes to some women. 

Some women such as Tatiana are impetuous and on a mission to marry, as much as any man who fell in love with a photo.  Did you think it was desperation, or just the way things were done 8 years ago?

Gator,
I honestly do not know the answer to that.  It also could have something to do with the quality of the men coming to Tver.  (Not to sound too egotistical)  To be kind, I didn't meet too many "total package" guys while I was there.  And never under estimate the power of "girl talk" in the offices.  Nadya, the office manager, is the mother of one of Lena's friends, so Lena confided in her a bit.  Someone in the office put out the word on me and I had um, er, a lot of interest from the ladies.

Life was very difficult at that time in Russia too.  A large percentage of the single RM just couldn't afford to marry and support their family like they should.
KenC

[Jazzyclassy]

Sometimes it reminds me of some very very bad show on MTV , I know none of you watch telly and especially teen channels in vein though you could find your Trip reports there in a very exaggerated manner and learn how erratic it can be .

your report KenC is saint in comparison with what other people wrote and those programmes on MTV ))) but I think you are not telling many other bits of your trip, met only 3 girls and Lena? well maybe  maybe ......

     This young woman is dead serious about getting married and I guess she has already made up her mind that I was a real candidate.  Holy sh!t.  I never considered that.
             

And what were you expecting coming to Tver for some random dating and never end it with marriage?  (You will tell you simply did not have a chemistry with her , though she was stunning )

So you really wanted just to see if you click with this or that person, well but did not you have any intention to marry?(of course you did!!!) When the girl talks about marriage on the fist date, but talking about it as her prospective and not necessarily pointing it at you , she just makes clear her position what is she searching from all this dating-she wants a family , to get married and to have kids which is perfectly normal. I do not find anything extraordinary there. She was just telling her intentions, that's it.

It is only on telly I can observe how a western man can marry a poor invalid ,little woman from Russia . It was obviously  made up for the show only I guess, as in reality everything is much more better.......

[KenC]

Sometimes it reminds me of some very very bad show on MTV , I know none of you watch telly and especially teen channels in vein though you could find your Trip reports there in a very exaggerated manner and learn how erratic it can be .

your report KenC is saint in comparison with what other people wrote and those programmes on MTV ))) but I think you are not telling many other bits of your trip, met only 3 girls and Lena? well maybe  maybe ......

And what were you expecting coming to Tver for some random dating and never end it with marriage?  (You will tell you simply did not have a chemistry with her , though she was stunning )  you never really tried to meet the older women or the women who could really be equal  to your mature brains, you have chosen a person whom it is easier to rule and to dictate and to patronate, well everybody chooses on their own of course.(though it might be vice versa )

So you really wanted just to see if you click with this or that person, well but did not you have any intention to marry?(of course you did!!!) When the girl talks about marriage on the fist date, but talking about it as her prospective and not necessarily pointing it at you , she just makes clear her position what is she searching from all this dating-she wants a family , to get married and to have kids which is perfectly normal. I do not find anything extraordinary there. She was just telling her intentions, that's it.

It is only on telly I can observe how a western man can marry a poor invalid ,little woman from Russia . It was obviously  made up for the show only I guess, as in reality everything is much more better.......

No offense Jazzy,
But you do not have a friggen clue about Lena.  Lena is the toughest woman I have ever met.  "Stong willed" does not begin to explain her.  And I would thank you to keep your opinions to yourself please.
KenC

[Jazzyclassy]

You told any comments are welcomed so , get over it

Do not expect people to tell you only good things, as how you once told me here

Cos everybody has their own point of views,

I asked you a simple question and you can not answer it, Why you never considered other women ?

I do not see anything wrong with this question

your trip report is very predictable and very nicely composed, and that is about it what I have to say  , no other impression it evokes.

[Lily]

I asked you a simple question and you can not answer it, Why you never considered other women ? 

but Jazzy, that 's exactly what he is writing about meeting Tatiana and other women. and they were older in age.

[Jazzyclassy]

but Jazzy, that 's exactly what he is writing about meeting Tatiana and other women. and they were older in age.

27? and something around that age , if you say so  Lily

But yes it is not about age , it is about how everything is predicatable in his writing

[Photo Guy]

I think Ken paints an interesting picture, an honest picture of
a fairly naive guy, who was shifting from an American dating pool,
to a pool of serious, marriage-minded Russian women.
It's a good perspective of the culture shock thing,
where a man begins to immerse himself into the mindset of
RW. It's unsettling and exciting at the same time. I think it's
an extraordinary situation that makes it very easy to become
infatuated with a beautiful woman. (general observation, not
directed at Ken)
I appreciate his 'sadness' at seeing the seriousness of
some of the RW's intentions. I can relate to that.
It's a stark contrast to AW I've known who didn't
even know if they were looking for a husband. 'Love', sure,
but a 'husband'!?  ...that idea is often way TOO serious for them.

Psychologist often talk about a condition known as
'readiness' as a prerequisite for marriage. Meeting through
a 'marriage' agency might help eliminate those who are
not 'ready' for marriage, not ready to 'settle down'.

Ken, would you describe your approach as Write One, Visit a Few?
...I don't think you really had a set approach. Like you said,
you were impulsive.

[KenC]

You told any comments are welcomed so , get over it

No, you are incorrect.  I said you are welcome to comment, not to make any comment.  Your comment was rude, uninformed and baseless and you are too ignorant and classless to understand that.

Do not expect people to tell you only good things, as how you once told me here

  I do expect a certain amount of respect, which you have not put forth toward me or my wife here.  Let me see if I can give you an equivalent:
Jazzy, with all the beautiful women in Russia, why did your husband choose such an ugly woman to marry?

Cos everybody has their own point of views,

Your view is no longer welcome here. 

I asked you a simple question and you can not answer it, Why you never considered other women ?

I do not see anything wrong with this question

You don't see anything wrong with?

you never really tried to meet the older women or the women who could really be equal  to your mature brains, you have chosen a person whom it is easier to rule and to dictate and to patronate,

You have inferred here that Lena is not smart or mature and that I choose her because she was easy to control.  You have absolutely no basis for these statements and they are completely rude and derogatory. Ergo you are disparaging my wife without any factual support of your point of view.  In the civilized world there is an expectation of civility and you crossed the line.  Please keep any future nasty comments to yourself.

your trip report is very predictable and very nicely composed, and that is about it what I have to say  , no other impression it evokes.

You have said enough, really.  No more is necessary.
KenC

[KenC]

27? and something around that age , if you say so  Lily

But yes it is not about age , it is about how everything is predicatable in his writing

For your uninformed and biased little mind, Jazzy, please note that I dated women that age back in America.  Marina, that I met, was 36.  I have also disclosed the fact that there were no women listed with LTP in their 40's and that there was only a handful (5 or 6) in their 30's.  Pay attention before you run your mouth please.

Your approval of my actions are neither requested or necessary.  When your marriage reaches 9 years, then maybe you will have earned the right to judge mine.  By then you might have established a real marrige, you know, the kind where two people actually live together.
KenC

[KenC]

I think Ken paints an interesting picture, an honest picture of
a fairly naive guy, who was shifting from an American dating pool,
to a pool of serious, marriage-minded Russian women.
It's a good perspective of the culture shock thing,
where a man begins to immerse himself into the mindset of
RW. It's unsettling and exciting at the same time. I think it's
an extraordinary situation that makes it very easy to become
infatuated with a beautiful woman. (general observation, not
directed at Ken)
I appreciate his 'sadness' at seeing the seriousness of
some of the RW's intentions. I can relate to that.
It's a stark contrast to AW I've known who didn't
even know if they were looking for a husband. 'Love', sure,
but a 'husband'!?  ...that idea is often way TOO serious for them.

Psychologist often talk about a condition known as
'readiness' as a prerequisite for marriage. Meeting through
a 'marriage' agency might help eliminate those who are
not 'ready' for marriage, not ready to 'settle down'.

Ken, would you describe your approach as Write One, Visit a Few?
...I don't think you really had a set approach. Like you said,
you were impulsive.

PG,
I think you nailed it your comments about the difference in dating pools.  I have always maintained that there were two types of daters.  The first would be those people that are dating to select a spouse.  The second would be dating for strictly the entertainment value.  I think most RW fall into the first category.  They do seem to put a high priority on getting married (in or out of the marriage agencies)

The sadness came from their willingness to throw themselves at any good prospect.  I was kind of embarrassed for them to be honest.  I did not get that same feeling from Lena.  Now that I know her character as well as I do, I know for a fact that she would never throw herself or even "pitch" herself to any man.  And that includes me, the one she has loved for these many years.

I have always joked that it was a WOVO with a twist.
KenC

[Bluebell]

Let's not forget that the time of KenC meeting Lena, he must have been around 45 (if he is now 55), almost a spring chicken   

[Jazzyclassy]

Let's not forget that the time of KenC meeting Lena, he must have been around 45 (if he is now 55), almost a spring chicken   

Maybe so , maybe for all those people my view is non understandable but I still think how I think

Why are you always offended for nothing KenC, you never told about Marina whom you dated , maybe you could write about her as well

[Bruce]

Ken C, excellent report and continued success for you and Lena together!

 Some of the women on this board just do not understand the numbers.   The average age difference is approximately 16 years younger.  Ken is really not so far from the norm.  He is a bit at the high end of the range but in the norm.  Smart women are always dream of a guy like Ken C.

Just because you think it should not be so, does not mesh with reality.  So wake up and look at facts as facts, not your projections.

[KenC]

Maybe so , maybe for all those people my view is non understandable but I still think how I think

Why are you always offended for nothing KenC, you never told about Marina whom you dated , maybe you could write about her as well

Because you are rude for no reason other than to be rude, Jazzy.  And you obviously do not read too well either.

Patience, patience Jazzy, there is much more to come.     I have said this before, LTP had very few women in their 30's at this time.  Maybe 4 or 5 total.  And none in their 40's/
.
KenC

And then later in my report:

As we were drinking coffee and chatting, one of the terps came in to tell Marc that Marina was on her way into the office to meet me.  Huh?  How did she know I was here?  Well, later I found out that the terps regularly alert their friends when there was a decent guy in the office.  I guess I passed the “terp test.”

Marina was the oldest woman I was scheduled to meet at 36.  As I have said many times before there were very few women listed with LTP over the age of 30 at that time.  Marc informed me that I should be impressed that Marina left her job to come meet me as she was another very picky woman listed with them.  We had a pleasant meeting with just a little small talk as I was really not prepared for this meeting.  It ended with our agreement to meet again.

Again. read before you run your big mouth Jazzy!

[Jazzyclassy]

Because you are rude for no reason other than to be rude, Jazzy.  And you obviously do not read too well either.

And then later in my report:Again. read before you run your big mouth Jazzy!

well sorry I probably missed that part where you told about her age ))

do not be offended  I treat very nicely towards you indeed

[Jazzyclassy]

Ken C, excellent report and continued success for you and Lena together!

 Some of the women on this board just do not understand the numbers.   The average age difference is approximately 16 years younger.  Ken is really not so far from the norm.  He is a bit at the high end of the range but in the norm.  Smart women are always dream of a guy like Ken C.

Just because you think it should not be so, does not mesh with reality.  So wake up and look at facts as facts, not your projections.

hahah why are you always group together just in order to crash the other person's opinion , cos fact is the fact you will never change it, only life can change it

It is not about age, it is just about some attitude,I can  no longer tell that it is due to my bad understanding of english language, as it is a shame as I am still struggling sometimes, though I have been  reading  this board for quite awhile )) well some people need more time to get the idea of things, you gotta be more generous

Back in those times Kenc when you started dating your future wife, have you ever thought that these international relations will be such a boom nowadays?

have you ever had difficult situations during your relations when you were ready to say stop am quiting this?

What do you think attracted her to you the most?

[Serebro]

This story made me think about myself and what I was like 10 years ago.
I had just left school and I was a very shy, thin naive girl who believed everything and everyone.
I started using the Internet at the end of 1999-the beginning of 2000 and it was an Internet cafe...and I used it just for sending postcards to my friends,I knew nothing about international relationship/marriages/dating.


October, 1998, it was just after that big "money crush" that we had and time when people were commiting suicides after losing all their money, the prices were close to the sky, the shops were closed and people didn't know what to do.....
At that time I depended on my parents in a great way but if I had been  invited by someone to the meeting with foreign men, even if they had been  old and ugly... well..yes, I would have come, maybe not alone, I think I would have come with my teenage friend...those men would have been like creatures from another planet, the totally different world that I knew nothing of.
And if those men had invited me to expensive restaurants and they had presented  bunches of flowers to me .. well..yes, If they had proposed I would have said yes immediately even if they had been older than KenC...and as for his teenage children... well. those "children" were not children for me at that time.
As for my mom she  would have probably said no...

Btw, does anybody know about FSUrookie, how is he?!

[Gator]

Jazzy,

You are perhaps the youngest RW who writes at RWD.  Yet, you frequently remind me of those babushkas who sit on a bench outside an apartment, chew sunflower seeds, and insult  passersby.  Is that how you wish to be perceived?

In this thread you should ask simple questions and refrain from wrapping them in moralizing philosophy.   For sure, here and elsewhere, DO NOT judge the character of a man’s wife or girlfriend unless he solicits an opinion.   

When you are critical of something, do you first type your response as a draft, read another thread, return to your draft, and re-read it before posting it?

I have always been impressed by the general politeness of Russian people in not making unsolicited judgments.  Why are you different?

[KenC]

This story made me think about myself and what I was like 10 years ago.
I had just left school and I was a very shy, thin naive girl who believed everything and everyone.
I started using the Internet at the end of 1999-the beginning of 2000 and it was an Internet cafe...and I used it just for sending postcards to my friends,I knew nothing about international relationship/marriages/dating.


October, 1998, it was just after that big "money crush" that we had and time when people were commiting suicides after losing all their money, the prices were close to the sky, the shops were closed and people didn't know what to do.....
At that time I depended on my parents in a great way but if I had been  invited by someone to the meeting with foreign men, even if they had been  old and ugly... well..yes, I would have come, maybe not alone, I think I would have come with my teenage friend...those men would have been like creatures from another planet, the totally different world that I knew nothing of.
And if those men had invited me to expensive restaurants and they had presented  bunches of flowers to me .. well..yes, If they had proposed I would have said yes immediately even if they had been older than KenC...and as for his teenage children... well. those "children" were not children for me at that time.
As for my mom she  would have probably said no...

Btw, does anybody know about FSUrookie, how is he?!

Serebro,
Are you sure the "money crash" was around October 98?  I thought it was earlier.

I didn't take Lena to any restaurant that she was not already familiar with.  Lena's family was not rich, but they were far from poor.  Lena had many rich friends and a few of her previous Russian boyfriends lived quite well.  I didn't open Lena's eyes to the good life, she had already been there.  She was not in awe of these places as maybe some of the other women might have been.  Lena appreciates attention more than any lavish style living.  It was true then as it is true now.
KenC