I'm still not convinced! The official stats just don't make sense!

[Admin]

Especially those with western salaries.

I guess many western women are thinking the same as those in FSU.

Supply meets Demand with dubious results more often than not.

Those that truly profit are the one's making a buck on the deal.

Business as usual.

Reminds me of the adage about 'selling shovels to miners.' Here is the backstory:

On January 24, 1848, gold was discovered at Sutters Mill, near San Francisco California. Within a year the Gold Rush was on, and San Francisco became a boom town. Many people became rich.

But it's interesting to note that the very first millionaire wasn't a miner. The first millionaire from the California Gold Rush was a man by the name of Samuel Brannan. Mr. Brannan set up a store to sell gold prospecting supplies, and within a year had revenue of $150,000 a month. And in 1850 $150,000 was a LOT of money!

As you say - "business as usual."

- Dan

[Eduard]

>>When I posted a response it was immediately deleted and the topic locked. I reposted it in a new thread, and that was deleted right away as well.<<

Eduard, just to be certain, I went back through and looked at all deleted posts from RWD to see if I was mis-remembering anything. What I found was one post from you that was entitled; "Took time to reflect - last response to my "I've done it" locked thread."

Now, this one post was ALL that was deleted, and it was a response of yours to a Locked Topic and it came some time AFTER the topic was locked. The topic was locked for a reason. If you would be allowed to post in a locked topic - then ALL should be allowed to post in a locked topic - and then the action of locking would be meaningless - wouldn't it. Does the logic of this register with you?

It seems you are offended and "insulted" that you were not provided the opportunity to 'have the last word.' Oh well.

>>when I started a thread on different ethnic groups in FSU people weren't as friendly and started attacking me until Simoni posted that that thread was his idea.<<

Eduard, have you given any consideration to the part YOU played in things developing this way? You want to blame me or the "dingos" (your term, BTW - do you recognize it?) at RWD for the fact that "people weren't as friendly" - but do you recognize your own part in this - and what YOU might have done differently to achieve a different outcome?

Just curious.

- Dan

Well Dan, you surprised me...from absolute NONE you now moved to ONE.
I wonder if you might remember deleting this:
Hi Eduard,

I've been reading your posts on RWD and I agree with your views completely. I don't waste my time posting on RWD because I feel I have better things to do than argue with a bunch of know-it-alls. Most of those guys couldn't get a decent girl in the USA if their lives depended on it and they act like they are the only ones who have the GAME to get quality women.

I am interested in your services and would like to know about costs.
I like your idea of meeting women that are not on the dating sites. I am a high-paid consultant and my clients see the value of my expertise. So I place value on someone like you who has the experience and expertise in finding a good wholesome girl and avoiding the scammers and pro-daters. I did alright on my own in the past but I feel with your help I will get better results than if I did it on my own again.

I will tell you more about myself later but I will say now that I've been to Odessa and surrounding areas once and Sochi once...

[Admin]

Well Dan, you surprised me...from absolute NONE you now moved to ONE.
I wonder if you might remember deleting this:
Hi Eduard,

I've been reading your posts on RWD and I agree with your views completely. I don't waste my time posting on RWD because I feel I have better things to do than argue with a bunch of know-it-alls. Most of those guys couldn't get a decent girl in the USA if their lives depended on it and they act like they are the only ones who have the GAME to get quality women.

I am interested in your services and would like to know about costs.
I like your idea of meeting women that are not on the dating sites. I am a high-paid consultant and my clients see the value of my expertise. So I place value on someone like you who has the experience and expertise in finding a good wholesome girl and avoiding the scammers and pro-daters. I did alright on my own in the past but I feel with your help I will get better results than if I did it on my own again.

I will tell you more about myself later but I will say now that I've been to Odessa and surrounding areas once and Sochi once...

Eduard, you are approaching 500 posts. Of those 500, I deleted one - for the reasons cited above. I did not recall it earlier because it was, as described, a post to a Locked Topic and I simply did not recall its deletion. It may surprise you, but my life is pretty full with other activities, and it is possible for me to make a mistake once in a while. I suspect if the post had been to a live topic, I would have remembered it - and that is why I made the earlier comment.

Judging from the post above, it seems you have been successful with gathering some business from RWD. Would it be fair to say that your principal (sole?) reason for participation at RWD is to gain business?

the 1:8 thing was not MY number.

Really?!? Did you not cite that ratio on your website ?!?

Did you not make attribution to that ratio as "The only reason that they [RW] are single and looking is because of those statistics" ?!?

At what point do YOU take responsibility for the information YOU convey on YOUR website ?!?

- Dan

[Admin]

There are two factors at play. It is still very hard for a woman to succeed in terms of having a career in Russia. Quite often, having a powerful or high-status lover can open doors that would otherwise be closed.

The other factor is that sometimes it is better to have some attention from a man than to have none. A woman who has gone weeks or months or longer without any masculine companionship will often accept a married man if she considers that she does not have any other options. I don't condone it, but I do understand it.

The main factors driving divorce in Russia in 2007 according to a survey whereby respondents were asked to identify those factors that compelled people to file for a divorce:

• Alcoholism and drug addiction: 51% (compared to 33% in 1990)
• Housing problems (i.e. the couple not having their own place): 41% (compared to 21% in 1990)
• Inability to feed the family: 29% (compared to 8% in 1990)
• Interference of family members: 18% (compared to 17% in 1990)
• Inability to have children remained constant at 10%
• No compelling reason other than the married couple themselves: 31% (compared to 34% in 1990)

These results are based on a survey of 1,600 individuals living in 153 different population centers representing 46 different regions of Russia.

As you can see, the factors that are listed as the underlying causes of divorce have changed quite drastically since 1990 and Soviet times. Substance abuse tops the list in 2007 and economic hardship is also a leading cause of divorce as identified by Russians.

I didn't want this post by gabaub to get lost in the maelstrom. There are, very likely, some answers to the questions raised, if we care to delve deeper.

- Dan

[Simoni]

Eduard,
That is unfair and uncalled for.  If Dan says none of your posts have been deleted or removed, then it is so, as if anything, Dan is an honest man.  He has been overly patient with your barbs and false accusations though out this thread.  You "lost" the debate because you have no facts to substantiate your point of view, not through trickery or any "fix" as you claim here.  To make such accusations is an insult to Dan.
KenC

Yeah, there were missing quotes.  I was tracking this thread...went into a meeting....came about to find a number of posts deleted while I was gone.  Everything PAST this post was gone....

Yes.

And if you look at the title of the post I responded to - in point of fact, was DRAWN into, that topic and that post explicitly address the "Stats" and claims "they just don't make sense."

I daresay it was not me who is responsible for "changing the argument to something they are not arguing about."

- Dan

I thought a moderator had deleted them because of the argument being made.

Later, they reappeared. 

I don't know what happened, but it is a fact that they "disappeared" or were deleted for a period of time.

[Admin]

Yeah, there were missing quotes.  I was tracking this thread...went into a meeting....came about to find a number of posts deleted while I was gone.  Everything PAST this post was gone....
I thought a moderator had deleted them because of the argument being made.

Later, they reappeared. 

I don't know what happened, but it is a fact that they "disappeared" or were deleted for a period of time.

Simply not true.

In the process of my moving and merging topics, you may have lost track of them briefly - but there was NOTHING deleted.

- Dan

[BillyB]

The main factors driving divorce in Russia in 2007 according to a survey whereby respondents were asked to identify those factors that compelled people to file for a divorce:

• Alcoholism and drug addiction: 51% (compared to 33% in 1990)
• Housing problems (i.e. the couple not having their own place): 41% (compared to 21% in 1990)
• Inability to feed the family: 29% (compared to 8% in 1990)
• Interference of family members: 18% (compared to 17% in 1990)
• Inability to have children remained constant at 10%
• No compelling reason other than the married couple themselves: 31% (compared to 34% in 1990)

These results are based on a survey of 1,600 individuals living in 153 different population centers representing 46 different regions of Russia.

As you can see, the factors that are listed as the underlying causes of divorce have changed quite drastically since 1990 and Soviet times. Substance abuse tops the list in 2007 and economic hardship is also a leading cause of divorce as identified by Russians.

Keep in mind, women overwhelmingly file for divorce compared to men in Russia and the same goes for here in America. Most of the answers are coming from those that filed for divorce so that means most respondents are women.

Two sides to every story. I remember speaking to a divorced Russian couple. Her complaint about him was that he didn't come home from work and drank all night. His complaint about her was that she always compltained about something  and hit him when she wasn't happy and hus he was not motivated to come home to that. At the time I talked to both of them, they were in their 50's. The RW never remarried and the RM successfully did and was happy with his current wife.

[Misha]

Two sides to every story. I remember speaking to a divorced Russian couple. Her complaint about him was that he didn't come home from work and drank all night. His complaint about her was that she always compltained about something  and hit him when she wasn't happy and hus he was not motivated to come home to that. At the time I talked to both of them, they were in their 50's. The RW never remarried and the RM successfully did and was happy with his current wife.

It could also indicate that he found a woman who was willing to put up with his drinking because she knew that her odds of finding a new husband were not good. Was this a Russian couple in the United States or in Russia? Did the man find a new wife in Russia or the United States?

[Simoni]

Yeah, there were missing quotes.  I was tracking this thread...went into a meeting....came about to find a number of posts deleted while I was gone.  Everything PAST this post was gone....
I thought a moderator had deleted them because of the argument being made.

Later, they reappeared. 

I don't know what happened, but it is a fact that they "disappeared" or were deleted for a period of time.

Simply not true.

In the process of my moving and merging topics, you may have lost track of them briefly - but there was NOTHING deleted.

- Dan

What?  That is an over-reaction to my post.    What I said was that a number of posts were missing.  Your explanation that they may have gone missing while someone was moving or merging topics makes sense.  So why not just say that?

I promise you when I looked 6 tyo 8 posts I had read were indeed missing. Others may have seen the same thing.

[Simoni]

Dan,
I recommend that this thread be closed.

It has long sense served its purpose.

One group of people argue that the ration in the fsu is 1-to-1.

Another group argues that you simply can't extrapolate a one-to-one population figure and claim that the ratio of target women to men is also one-to-one.  They argue that many factors come into play, including interest RM have in RW, wealth of the AM, myths that the RW believe about there are not enough RM to go around, and for forth.

These two sides are talking past each other.   There appears to be no middle ground, and same things get repeated over and over and over again.

Time to end it, IMHO.

~Si

[Admin]

What?  That is an over-reaction to my post.    What I said was that a number of posts were missing.  Your explanation that they may have gone missing while someone was moving or merging topics makes sense.  So why not just say that?

I promise you when I looked 6 tyo 8 posts I had read were indeed missing. Others may have seen the same thing.

Because there was the express allegation that posts had been "removed" or "deleted." Those allegations are absolutely untrue.

Not an over-reaction - merely setting the record straight.

I know EXACTLY what I did. I know that I merged two topics and I moved the topic. Neither of those would result in any posts being deleted - and neither of those actions will result in loss of notifications. I also know that I did NOT delete ANY posts, hence, with the allegations being made by Eduard, and then by you, felt it important to be absolutely clear.

- Dan

[Admin]

Dan,
I recommend that this thread be closed.

It has long sense served its purpose.

One group of people argue that the ration in the fsu is 1-to-1.

Another group argues that you simply can't extrapolate a one-to-one population figure and claim that the ratio of target women to men is also one-to-one.  They argue that many factors come into play, including interest RM have in RW, wealth of the AM, myths that the RW believe about there are not enough RM to go around, and for forth.

These two sides are talking past each other.   There appears to be no middle ground, and same things get repeated over and over and over again.

Time to end it, IMHO.

~Si

I certainly don't mind putting it out of its misery.

Having said that, we have already seen a topic locked, only to come back to life in another subsequent topic - not once, but twice.

Do you suppose if I lock this one, it will be the end of it?

- Dan

[Simoni]

I certainly don't mind putting it out of its misery.

Having said that, we have already seen a topic locked, only to come back to life in another subsequent topic - not once, but twice.

Do you suppose if I lock this one, it will be the end of it?

- Dan

Yeah, just like we have seen the end of age difference strands    LOL

But it will end it for now, anyway.

[Simoni]

I know EXACTLY what I did. I know that I merged two topics and I moved the topic. Neither of those would result in any posts being deleted - and neither of those actions will result in loss of notifications. I also know that I did NOT delete ANY posts, hence, with the allegations being made by Eduard, and then by you, felt it important to be absolutely clear.

- Dan

And when you did so, it made it appear that the posts were gone.  Becuase they were.

You are mis-reading my post, or at least the intention of my post.  Let's look at it again....

"Yeah, there were missing quotes.  I was tracking this thread...went into a meeting....came about to find a number of posts deleted while I was gone.  Everything PAST this post was gone....
I thought a moderator had deleted them because of the argument being made"

When I wrote that I THOUGHT a moderator had deleted them, that was the honest truth. I did think that.  Read the word "thought."  That was not an allegation, as you say.

In fact, my "thought" was positive.  I was GLAD it was gone, because it was an ugly mess to all sides of the discussion

You have made it absolutely clear now, and that is helpful.  It's also helpful for others that did not see the posts missing to know what happened.

[Admin]

And when you did so, it made it appear that the posts were gone.  Becuase they were.

You are mis-reading my post, or at least the intention of my post.  Let's look at it again....

"Yeah, there were missing quotes.  I was tracking this thread...went into a meeting....came about to find a number of posts deleted while I was gone.  Everything PAST this post was gone....
I thought a moderator had deleted them because of the argument being made"

When I wrote that I THOUGHT a moderator had deleted them, that was the honest truth. I did think that.  Read the word "thought."  That was not an allegation, as you say.

You have made it absolutely clear now, and that is helpful.  It's also helpful for others that did not see the posts missing to know what happened.

>>the posts were gone.  Becuase they were.<<

Nope - that is not what I said - and not what happened.

Small point - but possibly an important one. The actions I took did NOT delete any posts at any time. Depending on how a person enters/accesses a forum or a topic, I suppose it *may* be possible to lose sight of a topic and/or a few posts while the merging/moving is in process. That process took a grand total of maybe 3 minutes (maximum) - and during that time, the posts were still on the board. Nothing was ever deleted. Nothing was removed. Nothing disappeared and subsequently reappeared.

Your post used the term "deleted" three times. Clearly, the implication was made - and my response was to that allegation.

- Dan

[Eduard]

Eduard, you are approaching 500 posts. Of those 500, I deleted one - for the reasons cited above. I did not recall it earlier because it was, as described, a post to a Locked Topic and I simply did not recall its deletion. It may surprise you, but my life is pretty full with other activities, and it is possible for me to make a mistake once in a while. I suspect if the post had been to a live topic, I would have remembered it - and that is why I made the earlier comment.

Judging from the post above, it seems you have been successful with gathering some business from RWD. Would it be fair to say that your principal (sole?) reason for participation at RWD is to gain business?

Really?!? Did you not cite that ratio on your website ?!?

Did you not make attribution to that ratio as "The only reason that they [RW] are single and looking is because of those statistics" ?!?

At what point do YOU take responsibility for the information YOU convey on YOUR website ?!?

- Dan

Dan, you have a way to redirect the course of conversation and try to put me on the defensive instead of addressing my post. You did delete this quote from another RDW member from my post. I remember it very well. My post that you admitted deleting was posted right after a real nasty one by another member. By the time I finished writing the response you had locked the thread! How very fair! When I asked you in PM to let me post my response, you said that you would thik about it...I guess you are still thinking because I haven't heard back from you.
Somehow when you don't want to hear something or see something you just don't. I already repeated this probably 3 or more times. 1:8 was not MY number. I didn't come up with it. I saw it on another site and according to my personal experience it made sense. Therefore I used it on my site. When you challenged me with your statistics and your source looked reliable I admitted that the number is off and did remove that number from my site immediately, and that should have been the end of it! Basta! Pizdets! But no, the attacks contined! yet you still keep bringing the 1:8 thing up every chance you get even though I admitted that this number isn't right and changed that on my site months ago! Can you explain this?
I still think that to think that there is 1 available man in FSU for every available woman is ignorrant. Even if the government stats are God's honest truth and the body count is correct there must be many factors that change this ratio significantly. many reasons for that were already mentioned here by me and some other members.

"Did you not make attribution to that ratio as "The only reason that they [RW] are single and looking is because of those statistics" ?!?"
 Yes and I will still say yes! The only reason any normal, attractive woman, who doesn't choose to be single, would be single is because statistics are probably not in her favor! Why does this sound so outrageous to you?

[LiveFromUkraine]

Well, I just got back from the local grocery store.  It was late and all I saw were men outside with very few woman.  I guess those statistics are wrong.  There are more MEN than women now.  It is time to start bringing over AW and hooking them up with all these men now. 


Thomas

[Simoni]

In fact, my "thought" was positive.  I was GLAD it was gone, because it was an ugly mess to all sides of the discussion
 So it was not an allegation, but a thought.


<<<I suppose it *may* be possible to lose sight of a topic and/or a few posts while the merging/moving is in process. That process took a grand total of maybe 3 minutes (maximum) - and during that time, the posts were still on the board.>>>

Dan, I told you what I saw.  I logged in via phone and the last few posts were gone. I'm an honest guy and have no reason to state anything but what I saw.  I would think you would be interested in this technical tidbit instead of questioning what I saw.

And once again, my thoughts when I saw the missing posts were "oh good," and not "on, no."

[Simoni]

Well, I just got back from the local grocery store.  It was late and all I saw were men outside with very few woman.  I guess those statistics are wrong.  There are more MEN than women now.  It is time to start bringing over AM and hooking them up with all these men now. 


Thomas

LOL

Guys, better go the mall to meet girls and not the grocery store 

[LiveFromUkraine]

LOL

Guys, better go the mall to meet girls and not the grocery store 

Dang you SI.. I messed up my joke my saying American Men instead of American Women and tried to change it before anyone saw it.   


Thomas

[Simoni]

Dang you SI.. I messed up my joke my saying American Men instead of American Women and tried to change it before anyone saw it.   


Thomas

hee hee. It actually made it even funnier :-)

[Misha]

Well, I just got back from the local grocery store.  It was late and all I saw were men outside with very few woman.  I guess those statistics are wrong.  There are more MEN than women now.  It is time to start bringing over AW and hooking them up with all these men now. 


Thomas

Well, if they were out buying vodka at the grocery store then you have confirmed some of the points that I was trying to make LOL.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Well, if they were out buying vodka at the grocery store then you have confirmed some of the points that I was trying to make LOL.

It is interesting here.  I see a lot of men hanging out with other men.  I mentioned this to my wife when I first got here.  It seems like men here would rather hang out with other men instead of women.  I always see more packs of men together compared to women.



Thomas

[Admin]

Dan, you have a way to redirect the course of conversation and try to put me on the defensive instead of addressing my post. You did delete this quote from another RDW member from my post. I remember it very well. My post that you admitted deleting was posted right after a real nasty one by another member. By the time I finished writing the response you had locked the thread! How very fair! When I asked you in PM to let me post my response, you said that you would thik about it...I guess you are still thinking because I haven't heard back from you.
Somehow when you don't want to hear something or see something you just don't. I already repeated this probably 3 or more times. 1:8 was not MY number. I didn't come up with it. I saw it on another site and according to my personal experience it made sense. Therefore I used it on my site. When you challenged me with your statistics and your source looked reliable I admitted that the number is off and did remove that number from my site immediately, and that should have been the end of it! Basta! Pizdets! But no, the attacks contined! yet you still keep bringing the 1:8 thing up every chance you get even though I admitted that this number isn't right and changed that on my site months ago! Can you explain this?
I still think that to think that there is 1 available man in FSU for every available woman is ignorrant. Even if the government stats are God's honest truth and the body count is correct there must be many factors that change this ratio significantly. many reasons for that were already mentioned here by me and some other members.

"Did you not make attribution to that ratio as "The only reason that they [RW] are single and looking is because of those statistics" ?!?"
 Yes and I will still say yes! The only reason any normal, attractive woman, who doesn't choose to be single, would be single is because statistics are probably not in her favor! Why does this sound so outrageous to you?

>>You did delete this quote from another RDW member from my post<<

OK - let's reset. You are upset that YOU posted a quotation, purportedly from another RWD member, and I deleted that. Do I understand correctly?

If there is another RWD member with something to add, why are YOU posting as their proxy? How can anyone know that the "quotation" is, indeed, from another RWD member? Does that other RWD member lack the courage of their conviction? Where are they now? Why did they not post themselves?

I had thought your allegation was that YOUR posts had been deleted. Now it seems you are upset that posts made by you, purportedly on behalf of someone else, were deleted.

>>By the time I finished writing the response you had locked the thread!<<

You will be glad to note that I specifically did NOT lock THIS topic when Simoni requested it - because I saw that you were posting in it. Now you have.

Whenever topics turn to crap (as this one), I make no apologies for my timing in closing them. If someone misses the opportunity to get in the 'last word' - that is just too bad.

In this case Eduard, you should (IMO) hope that I close it sooner rather than later, as it is my sincere belief you continue to do yourself more and more damage the longer this topic remains open.

>>I already repeated this probably 3 or more times. 1:8 was not MY number. I didn't come up with it. I saw it on another site and according to my personal experience it made sense. Therefore I used it on my site. When you challenged me with your statistics and your source looked reliable I admitted that the number is off and did remove that number from my site immediately, and that should have been the end of it! Basta! Pizdets! But no, the attacks contined! yet you still keep bringing the 1:8 thing up every chance you get even though I admitted that this number isn't right and changed that on my site months ago! Can you explain this?<<

Yes I can.

Whenever it is brought up, you consistently profess that it was NOT your number. Yet, you not only cited that number, you made important attribution to that ratio.

If, OTOH, you were to simply and graciously acknowledge the mistake - AND - accept accountability for that mistake INSTEAD OF always seeking to deflect YOUR actions, then it would be a total non-issue.

>>Yes and I will still say yes! The only reason any normal, attractive woman, who doesn't choose to be single, would be single is because statistics are probably not in her favor! Why does this sound so outrageous to you?<<

Wow! (he says in exasperated disbelief)

I'd say 'I give up' - but I know if this comes up again, somehow I'll muster the energy to 'deal' with it.

- Dan 

[Misha]

It is interesting here.  I see a lot of men hanging out with other men.  I mentioned this to my wife when I first got here.  It seems like men here would rather hang out with other men instead of women.  I always see more packs of men together compared to women.

Thomas

That is the reason my wife dumped her first Russian boyfriend. She does not like to be alone at night, and he would stay out until all hours of the night with his friends at the "garage" drinking and carousing. She finally got fed up, packed her bags, dumped him and moved on. Lucky for me, he did not heed her warnings.