HotRussianBrides.com

[anono]

nice reply "jim". the $120k had to be a typo. i stopped reading once i read that, because if it is not a typo, i am unable to believe anything else HRB says.

[andrewfi]

Anono ~ I agree, unless the guy is suggesting that all the backend costs of the business all are part of the cost of the website. IE, cost of buying in profiles, advertising for guys and girls, interent marketing, cost of all wages etc etc. Even so for what is essentially a small business, this seems very expensive. If that cost does not include these kind of costs, then yes, the guy has little credibility.

One thing for sure, I am glad not to be ian investor in such a business!

[HRBAdmin]

Folks, $120,000 per month was NOT a typo. This statement is not directed at anyone in particular, but it amazes me how many, even those who are in this business, feel that simply because it costs them X-amount of dollars to run their business or host a website, that it couldn't possibly cost us as much as it does to run ours. The salaries alone of those working on our project amount to $50,000 a month. Obviously, salaries are an expense of doing business and that figure was included in the overall amount I posted earlier.

As Andrewfi, suggested, I am including backend costs in that figure, as that is what it truly "costs" us to maintain this website. I did not however include advertising expenditures and some other misc. costs in that figure such as office space, equipment, etc. What we spend on advertising is an entirely new can of worms I won't open, because it is apparent not many here would believe we spend what we do on advertising. One word guys, television. It's not cheap.

Once again, if there are any of our Premium Members out there that would like to take a visit here and go over our books, they are welcome to. They would then be able to post their findings, to a certain extent of course.

Jack, to answer a few of your questions, do we feel we have weeded out all of the bad apples (agency-wise)? Not necessarily. But we are diligently working toward that goal, and we think the changes we have recently made as well as those that are in store will go a long way toward helping us realize which of our agencies are attempting to take advantage of us and our members.

That being said, the fact remains that just because a company in this industry feels that every single agency working with them is honest and professional, doesn't mean that their service will be scam free. It takes just one dishonest employee at an agency or one dishonest lady to throw a wrench into the works. This is why I keep on reiterating that it is just as important to know how a service such as ours deals with scams when they discover them, and not just what steps they are taking to provide a safe matchmaking experience for their members.

Jack, I think you misunderstood some portions of my post. Our members are currently permitted to exchange postal addresses through our email or instant message service. However, the exchange of any other type of personal contact information through our online service, such as telephone numbers or email addresses, is prohibited. Thus, currently, if a lady or man places their postal address within an email, it will NOT be removed. If they place their telephone number, email address, ICQ, or any other form of personal contact information (other than their postal address) within an email, it will be removed. To clarify one point, we do NOT persuade the ladies against providing their postal address to another member. Each lady may provide her postal address at her own discretion.

From my experience in dealing with Russian/Ukrainian women, I would say some are Internet savvy, while others are not. IMO it really all depends upon a combination of their place of residence, upbringing, schooling, work experience and the amount of exposure they have had to the Internet and computers in general. Jack as to your question regarding how many personal email addresses I think these women have, I'm not sure. However, if it is anything like the US where those who use the Internet with any amount of frequency usually have several email addresses, (work, personal, one for junk mail, etc) then I see no reason as to why this trend would differ anywhere else in the world.

To answer your last question, the ladies do not pay anything to use our services. We have experienced issues in the past with some of our agencies attempting to charge the ladies for certain services, and we have put a stop to it. For instance, just recently, when we switched our commission structure, one of our agencies was not receiving much in the way of commissions and thus could not pay their translators, so they began charging the ladies for translation. This got back to us and we fixed it by providing this agency (and many others) an extra stipend in order to pay their translators until they can start making commissions with our video chat service. We also purchased 40+ new computers and web cameras for those agencies that were unable to provide their own. We are doing our best to ensure this transition period is as seamless as possible for our agencies and members alike.

[HRBAdmin]

TigerPaws,

We police our site in several ways. For one, our members are a great resource in that they often spot suspicious activity before we are able to. However, we don't just rely upon our members to ferret out scammers. We utilize a sophisticated filtering program that catches certain content when present in emails. We also have a full time staff member that does nothing but spot check the ladies' emails to ensure no requests for money are being made, or any other red flags emerge that are often precursors to the making of a scam.

If you provide me the ID numbers of the ladies in question, as well as direct URL's to the pages of the websites where information regarding their scams can be found, I'll be happy to investigate.

[Jack]

Dave, thank you for your replies to my questions.

I think you are doing the best you can to weed out questionable agencies. We will all make mistakes in working with agencies we think are good and honest and are sometimes fooled. It has happened to me, will happen to you.

I may not agree with some of your policies, as I may not agree with some of Kevin's policies, but I can certaintly respect and work with any agency who is honest and ethical even if the way they do business is not the same way as I do.

[BC]

What we spend on advertising is an entirely new can of worms I won't open, because it is apparent not many here would believe we spend what we do on advertising. One word guys, television. It's not cheap.

I'd love to see an agency TV advert. Surely you could provide a link to a video file.

[HRBAdmin]

Jim,

I appreciate your reply and the clarification provided within. Obviously, different men have different ways of going about this process. While your approach works for you, there are others who need and appreciate the level of attention and service we are able to provide from the first step to the very last.

I wish you the very best with "the One."

PS - Please let me know if those refunds do not come through on your end. I'm not sure if you're using the same credit card now as you did when using our service, but often times members cancel cards and this causes issues with refunds down the road.

[HRBAdmin]

BC,

Check out the homepage of RussianLoveMatch.com. We have trailers of our infomercial there.

[HRBAdmin]

Jack,

Likewise. While we are competitors, I can certainly appreciate someone such as yourself who is vigilant in regards to offering an honest and legitimate service in an industry where illegitimacy has a strong foothold.  

[Bruno]

David,

 Having spent some time going through your site I found several profles of known and or highly suspected scammers. How are you policing your site?

Tiger, if you browse my site, you can find 2 of 3 ladies already listed like scammer...

Really, do you trust scammer list ? For me, the reply is NO... it is why when i find one of my woman listed in a scam list, i ask her what have happen...

By example, one have stop a relation when the man have begin be vulgar and send nude photo with sexual text... she have prove it to me by sending all the e-mail in .eml format ( with header )...

A other was listed but it was her photo, her name but not her data and with other contact information... several scammer steal profile of other honest woman...

And the last one was listed not because she have make something bad but because the agency she have use before was a scam agency...

So, if you find a woman listed like scammer, you can never know if she was really a scammer or a honest woman until these scam list publish the full story from the two side and evidence...

[HRBAdmin]

I do agree with Bruno in that the problem we face with the blacklists is that not all of the ladies listed are always the perpetrators of the scam. As many of you know, just as scammers use pictures of supermodels and pop stars, they also steal pictures of real women whose legitimate profiles are listed with dating sites. 

Some ladies have filled out profiles at agencies and simply forgot about them, until they received word that the bogus agency was emailing men and asking for money under the guise of the ladies' profiles. In other scenarios, a guy may simply be trying to lash out at a lady who doesn't wish to continue correspondence with him, so he plasters her profile and a fake story on every blacklist he can.

So, as Bruno mentioned, not every scenario is as cut and dry as some scamming sites make them appear to be. Granted, many men are victims of scams in this industry, but they are not alone, as innocent women become pulled into the fray as well.

That's not to say we do not investigate our ladies who are on scam lists. We are glad to do so. But, just as Bruno has come to find out, we have found that sometimes the lady in question has no idea she is even on the list, as her picture was stolen by someone else, while other times the lady is the victim of a "gentleman" who has serious issues with rejection.

[Jack]

If people who publish scam reports will require two confirmed and verfiable reports from two seperate individuals then you don't have the problems from the perverts who make false claims.

I have had several guys really get upset with me for not posting the women he claimed was a scammer. I tell these guys I need two confirmed reports to list any woman as a scammer and some of these guys go nuts.

[TigerPaws]

HRBAdmin,

 I understand what you and Bruno mean about the black lists, what I found was profiles of girls who are known to be scammers. If you would like I could post some of their profile numbers?

 My original question still stands, how are you policing your site?

[Bruno]

If people who publish scam reports will require two confirmed and verfiable reports from two seperate individuals then you don't have the problems from the perverts who make false claims.

I have had several guys really get upset with me for not posting the women he claimed was a scammer. I tell these guys I need two confirmed reports to list any woman as a scammer and some of these guys go nuts.

One report can be enough for remove a woman when he is good documented... a single e-mail without header is not enough... some publish a woman because she ask financial help... but sometime, men are the origin of these ask of money... if a woman is able to pay internet club for write you two time week, don't be surprised if she ask some little money when you ask her to write you each day...

The same for some fellow European who have the chance to be able make a invitation to woman... i have know one situation where the woman have pay the visa for visit a French man... she was too short of 100$ for the trip... but when she have ask the 100$ to him, he have accuse her to be a scammer... she have prove me that she have buy the shenghen visa and that she have already make reservation for the plane ticket and pay a provision of 200$ on it... in so case, the european man is the scammer...

Usually, i ask to both, man and woman to send me the evidence... until now, only one case where the woman was really a scammer... the case was fowarded to the foreign office in Moscow... the copy of passport was false... the only return i have receive from Moscow was that the nummer from passport was from a man... false photo and some data changed on the passport... photoshop is a great program but not perfect for false official stemp

In anycase, each situation is different... and always, don't send money before meeting... in the case of America, since the woman can almost not visit you, it is very simple... For European, i advice to visit the lady in her own country and invite her only for the second meeting in his own country, when the trust is already fully build...

Scammer exist on both side... a forum like these is the best tool for learn detect scammer... but please, don't become parano... scammer exist but they are only a few...

Gold digger and visa whore are a more big problem and more difficult to detect... they wish your money or the nationality... and they are ready to marry you for this... these woman are the real danger... the scammer who thief you some $$$ are nothing compare to these gold digger and visa whore... and only you, because you have live some time with them are able to detect the anomaly... the one week wonder who proceed with a K1 almost directly are easy prey for so woman... take the time needed to build a relation, don't rush... for this, agency cannot help you, we cannot scan insided the mind of women...

[HRBAdmin]

TigerPaws,

I stated how we police our site in my previous post to you above. In case you missed it, here it is again.


We police our site in several ways. For one, our members are a great resource in that they often spot suspicious activity before we are able to. However, we don't just rely upon our members to ferret out scammers. We utilize a sophisticated filtering program that catches certain content when present in emails. We also have a full time staff member that does nothing but spot check the ladies' emails to ensure no requests for money are being made, or any other red flags emerge that are often precursors to the making of a scam.

If you provide me the ID numbers of the ladies in question, as well as direct URL's to the pages of the websites where information regarding their scams can be found, I'll be happy to investigate.

[anono]

$50,000 a month salary?  what are the job requirements? where can i send my resume'?

[Bruno]

$50,000 a month salary?  what are the job requirements? where can i send my resume'?

" The salaries alone of those working on our project amount to $50,000 a month. "

I think that they are more of one to share these amount... if they are thousand, this give 50$/month ... always ready to sign contract :D:D

[HRBAdmin]

Anono,

That's for aprox ten people who work on this project in any given month. Thus, you have to divide that $50,000 amongst ten people each month.

[calcowboy1]

Wow, $5000.00 per person. 

Why not just hire some programmer in Russia or Ukraine and pay them hardly anything, like the rest of the US software programming industry.  Most of all the programming is all outsourced anyway, and they provide great code.

That being said, I cannot imagine how a MOB business is going to make a profit with $120k per month expenses.  As a business owner myself, I cannot imagine how this will work out, esspecially with the business model (all inclusive, hand-holding) you have. 

I know it is none of my business, however, I would be curious when a MOB business with $120k per month of expenses, would expect to turn a profit (i.e how many months it would take).  Just taking a quick look at your pricing model, you would need 3000 paying customers on a monthly basis, paying for your platinum package.  Taking into account the turnover of customers, holy crap you must know more than me, because that has to be alot of new MOB seekers each and every month.  Now of course this would just cover the $120k per month expenses, and no profit.

I will give you the fact that other than a really questionable name (hotrussianbrides), your site looks nice.   I would just consider getting your tech people cheap, by hiring local labour.

Gawd, I wish you the best of luck in your business

Calcowboy

[BC]

Good points Calcowboy,

Such high costs can only be justified by mass production.  The only way to keep quality high is to produce a uniform product.  Quite impossible to do this with W in general, much less RW

[Louie]

IMHO HRB|Russian Love Match are very dishonest, and very misleading, you have professional chatters there that try endlessly to get you to use there video chat option, a ridiculously priced option, that eats up money so fast, what with the less than good connections in the FSU, and with then chatting to many men, it is a total cash cow for you. really just how many 18 to 23 year olds are interested in 45 year old guys, and you can keep clicking on the no thank you button but they keep trying over and over again to get you to chat. you totally intimidate the agency and girls there to abide by your rules, and when you try to make contact on your own, you make all men out to be crazed internet stalkers to these girls, all in the name of profit for you! you should be ashamed of yourself. if you concentrated half the amount of time you do scamming money off of us and put a little effort in to what your business is all about and that is to bring to people together you would make a fortune, but instead the only thing you are concerned about is how to bring our money together with your bank account

[Jack]

tick...tick...tick...tick...

It's just a     tick...tick...tick...    matter of time. If Hot Russian Brides (damn don't ya just love that name for a good a marriage agency) is spending $120,000 a month on overhead,  it's just a matter of time.

No one in the industry spends anywhere     tick...tick...tick....   near that amount of money on monthly overhead.  I suspect  that someone did a sales job on someone and got a LOT of funding, someone   tick...tick...tick....  was able to fool someone into thinking they could make the investor(s) a lot     tick...tick...tick...    of money.  I think the major investor(s) is really beginning to wonder about his investment now.

I also wonder if   tick...tick...tick...   the current change in company policy might have anything to do with the walls closing in, something having to change quickly.

Hey Dave, still waiting for your reply (where r u camergurl?). You had   tick...tick...tick...  done a pretty good job with damage control by your previous immediate replies. I don't know what your position is with Hot Russian Brides (damn I luv that name!), maybe your     tick...tick...tick...     just a highly paid employee, maybe your one who helped to seek investors money, maybe your an investor, but I can't help to feel that someone, whoever raised the capital     tick...tick...tick...    for Hot Russian Brides is wondering hard now about that investment.  With the way you guys started out I was scratching my head    tick..tick...tick...   wondering how you guys were going to make this operation fly. Not sure the most knowledgeable of people of this industry had much input into it's operation.

[Louie]

Good one Jack, I think he's to busy spending all that hard earned scammed money, but like most dishonest companies ( Enron, Adelphi,) they will get caught and flushed

[calcowboy1]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, HRB, it just keeps getting better and better.

Jack, your likely right on the money.  The cash cow has likely stopped producing milk, hehehehehehehehehehehe.

It is only a matter of time and they will be gone. 

 ummmmm, not really, ahahahahahahahahahaha

Cheers!!

Calcowboy

[andrewfi]

Good points Calcowboy,

Such high costs can only be justified by mass production.  The only way to keep quality high is to produce a uniform product.  Quite impossible to do this with W in general, much less RW

That is why porn is so good! It looks like women, but it isn't. The MOB business shares many attributes (including, I think, clients!) but in the end, a few guys DO want to deal with the real women. That seems to be where HRB are very weak.

I doubt that the cash cow is not producing milk, but rather that it does not produce enough. I have visions of HRB having bought a load of PCs, set up a load of expensive code and and are now finding that the churn rate on subs is the same as for the porno biz and can not get enough money out of the business.