Assumptions We Make

[Turboguy]

Conner,

Ok you are 100% right.   I don't argue a bit with your statement that RW are direct and blunt.    I have seen this with Luda.   It was my impression before I ever started persuing them.   Also, I had a relationship last year with a Ukrainian gal that had some involvement for a year and included 6 or 8 weeks of living together and the bluntness was very obvious.    After that 6 or 8 weeks she decided to move back to New Hampshire because she did not like my bathtub.  She told me though that she would come back when I got the other house done that has a corner whirlpool tub.   The last three weeks she was here she used my secretaries bathtub and would spend three hours a day in it while my secretaries family would stand around with the legs crossed wishing they could get in for a few mintues and the gal never even said thanks.   If I am in for surprises on this front they are going to be minor.

I also agree that my perspective will change after marriage.  That is not going to be a surprise for me.   But I don't include loosing my enthusiasm among the changes I expect.  Maybe this sounds strange but I think I really like more complex relationships.   Prior to Luda, if I look back on my life to the relationship that really stood out and would have been the "love of my life" that gal was totally crazy and you had to pamper her like you do a Russian gal.  For a few quick glimpses of how odd this gal was, she would only eat in a restarant that served pepsi.  We would cruise the lot of any restarant trying to peek in the windows looking for a Pepsi logo.   After she ate she had to find a gas station to brush her teeth.   She would not use the restaruant rest room or a hotel or anything.  Had to be a gas station.   Had the gal not been insanely jealous and violent I probably would still be with her.  Regarless, we shall see what happens after marriage.   I do believe the grass always looks greener on the other side of the fence.  Most single people wish they were married and most married people wish they were single.

I am certain of how I feel.   I spent a lot of years hunting for the "right" person.  I made a ton of trips and dated a lot of american women.   From the start Luda felt right.   I enjoy being with her when she is in a good mood.  I enjoy being with her when she is in a bad mood and complaining.   I am not getting into this with 100% certainty that it will work but I am getting into this with 100% certainty that I won't be the one to throw in the towel.   Any new relationship has it's uncertainties but I think I am as aware of what lies ahead as anyone has ever been.   I am ready for it, what ever it is.

 

[anono]

i got to about page 3. i dunno if i'll be able to read the rest but where i left off, the thread was about relative maturity levels regarding RW and AW.

i think for AW the clock ticks up to about age 40.

i think for most RW the clock ticks up to about age 30.

i think R/UW mature faster because of the many differnces in our respective societies.

i also will echo jim naseum's comments about R/UW becoming less interested in american men. i have done a fair amount of traveling in the world, my first trip abroad, alone at age 18, three months in europe. americans stand out for many reasons. many americans have this look of self importance and sometimes as if we are better than everyone else. we might come from the greatest nation on earth but it does not mean we are the greatest people. in fact, america is full of incredibly ignorant people, which is evidenced by the present administration we have and it's war with a country and people who had absolutely nothing to do with 9-11.

we walk around like we're something simply because we are americans. many UW think we have a "money can buy us anything" attitude.

i saw one schmuck dripping his drink from a balcony over a crowd of dancing people and he thought he was funny. i had to restrain myself from walking over and bitch slapping him..

i see more and more ladies' profiles that state a preference for european men and are not interested in meeting any americans.

the vast majority of americans are not the hot ship they think they are...

[Michelangelo]

And if you have read the new Thomas Friedman book, "The Earth is Flat," you know that a new world order is being ushered in.

So let's not make the ASSUMPTION (on topic here) that we will always have the America of our youth. 

Let's work hard as we travel to display another and better model of who we are as a people than the one Anono posted.  We do have the greatest nation on earth and the finest people.

But for now, when in Europe, I dress like a European and walk like a European.  Once I am "in the door," I show whom I am and make a good impression...for all of us.

[Son of Clyde]

Where I live 99% of the convenience stores, donut shops and filling stations are owned by people of Arabic or East Indian descent.

 There would be nothing wrong if there was a sudden increase of Russian women here. I am thinking that in 10 years there will be a huge Russian population in the US.

[ConnerVT]

There is a sizable Russian population in the US, and it is growing rapidly.  As history shows, new immigrants typically relocate in areas that already have an established population of people from the same nationality.

In the US, there are large percentages of FSU immigrants in NYC, L.A., Chicago, Boston, and Washington DC areas.

http://answers.google.com/answers/main?cmd=threadview&id=249307

Even in smaller cities as Albany NY, and Seattle, WA, the population is significant (as a percentage of total population  Even here in VT, it is surprising to see how many Russians live in the area.  My wife and I brought our son to one of the elementary schools to play on the playground.  We were initially the only people there.  A woman and her son arrived about 15 minutes later.  Turns out she's a Russian citizen (the son born in the US).  Of 5 people, I was the only one who wasn't fluent in speaking Russian.

Unlike Asian, Hispanic, and Afro-Americans, Russian immigrants are much more invisible, as their physical traits more easily blend with the European make up of the American population.

[Son of Clyde]

There is a sizable Russian population in the US, and it is growing rapidly.  As .

Unlike Asian, Hispanic, and Afro-Americans, Russian immigrants are much more invisible, as their physical traits more easily blend with the European make up of the American population.

If you are anything like me your built in radar along with some help from your wife will allow you to spot a Russian person very quickly.

We went to a swing dance in DC at Glen Echo Park and she had found a Russian lady within 30 minutes. There were about 400 people in the ballroom.

[Photo Guy]

Clyde,
Swing dancing with Iryna? Excellent. It's good to see you having fun, rather than trials and tribulations.

[PeeWee]

I can usually identify, I think we all can, an Eastern European profile. My lady was telling me the other day the she can tell the difference between a Ukraine, Belerus, etc. by their slight differences in facial features and by their mannerisms.

 

PeeWee

[Son of Clyde]

Actually, I may have trouble distinguishing between a German, Swede and Ukrainian woman if all are blonde and dress alike.

I agree it is the European look in general.

Russian woman sometimes have a slightly asian look with almond shaped eyes and dark hair.  

[Bruce]

I think Russians can immediately pick out their "blacks" first by look and then by speech.  Where is Elen when you need her to tell you exactly how Russians think and how they can easily recognize each other etc.  I still think the biggest joke we find in Brighton when you ask anyone from the FSU where they are from they immediately say Moscow.  The minute they speak Russian my wife really knows.

[jb]

Clyde wrote:

Russian woman sometimes have a slightly asian look with almond shaped eyes and dark hair.

I don't know what part of Russia you visited to make that observtion, but IMHO, you couldn't be farther from the truth. The largest portion, i.e., the western half of Russian, the population decends from Scandinavia/Swedish (Norsemen/Viking) settlements since from about 800 CE. The smaller portion of Russia's population, the asian side east of Ekateringburg, still has a smattering of indigenous peoples and the vestiges of Ghengis Khan's empire are very evident in some of their facial apparence.  Irkutsk, which borders on Mongolia, is a prime example of this.

You are with a woman from Ukraine, which is the traditional home of the Tartar, these people were relocated to Siberian labor camps and all but wiped out in Stalin's time, but some of those blood lines are indelibly stamped on the faces of the native Ukrainian.   If you see a woman with that asian look with almond shaped eyes, most likely she has a Tartar somewhere in her family tree, but the typical ethnic Russian looks very much like a typical western European.  

[Elen]

I think Russians can immediately pick out their "blacks" first by look and then by speech.  Where is Elen when you need her to tell you exactly how Russians think and how they can easily recognize each other etc.  I still think the biggest joke we find in Brighton when you ask anyone from the FSU where they are from they immediately say Moscow.  The minute they speak Russian my wife really knows.

"Blacks" are "blacks" - simple and plain

Ukrainians are loud, more tended to "push" and "greedy" and have that terrible wrong "hg" instead of fine right "g":P:P

Belaruses are more calm and wirh characterictic accent as well.

All others with Europenian looks are Russians( except arrogant muscovites ( naitive ones of course but not some "limita" ) - who are another "nation" for sure;))

 And what you see like Russian community in the USA in many cases are Russian Jewes who we can recognise and don't mistake with Russians from first glance as well

[Bruce]

Elen - thanks for the clarification .

[jb]

All others with Europenian looks are Russians except arrogant muscovites

And all this time I was thinking you were Moscovitchka, where did I ever get that idea.

[Elen]

WHAT , JB?? Never heard that Moscow was NOT Russia:P?

[ronin308]

Michael I disagree with a part of your method.  When I travel I do not try and camoflague myself as a European.  I do dress a little different that I would at home like no shorts and very little tee shirts (unless I'm at the beach.)

So anyone who sees me can identify me as an American.  What I do differently however is my actions and words.  I make an attempt to speak the local language and understand the culture.  I am not pushy or insistant or try and show people how things are done.

Even though I don't "fit in", I have been stopped on the street and asked for directions in Ukraine so many times I can't remember.  At the airport in Lviv when our flight was delayed I was mistaken for an airport administrator and had to try to answer in my broken Russian.

In Turkey we played a game with the shopkeepers, I wouldn't say anything and my fiance did all of the talking.  It was amazing what nationalities they guessed I was unless I said anything.  In one store I started as a Ukrainian (of course since she was), then I became a Russian, a Pole, and a Spainard.

 

[jb]

I'm aware that people from St. Pete refer to Moscow as "the big village" because of it's large and deverse population.  Scattered enclaves of different ethnic groups on many different levels.  The last I looked, the Armenians were somewhere close to the bottom of the pile and you then worked your way upwards from there.

But I think it's safe to say the native Moscovite has much to be proud of, it's still a fascinating city with a very rich heritage.

P.S. I agree that it's different, I've been to Vladivostok, Novosibirsk, Irkutsk, and a few other cities, whose names I couldn't correctly spell without consulting a map, and the principal differences I saw was that Moscow thrives and the rest of Russia stagnates.  When I first went to Vladivostok my luggage was carried from the airplane to the terminal in a horse drawn cart, I have heard the horse has since died and was replaced by a tractor.  So at least there's some progress out East.

But I still like going to Moscow.

[Elen]

About lookings of Muskovites. There was an article some time ago in one our newspaper ( can't found it as it was rather long time ago) It was about "average" Muscovites.  In opposite to "middle Russia" Muskovites mostly have black but not dark blond hairs, grey-blue eyes and they are more taller than "average" Russians

And our "a-a-a-a" you can't mistake with anything ( also it's hard to get the same Moscow accent if you have not been born here:P That's why we can recognise non naitive Muscovites as well) Those from St. Peter we can figure out but useing some words which Muscovites never use to describe some "ordinar" things.

[jb]

Yes, I understand.  When my wife, (a native Moscovitchka) first moved to Texas she saw lot's of cows alongside the road and started talking about "корова or коровы", her pronuciation had me really confused, I had not heard the broad "ah" sound used instead of the short "o" sound before. So it is different.

[Elen]

Moscow accent - "a" instead of "o" and "ee ( or i)" in stead "e" if it is not under stress ( though it's the same in other regions as well) but in addition Muscovites drag out sounds in a syllable which stays before syllable under stress. Try if you can  

Maaaaskva  taaaakaya  baaaal'shaya  dee-ee-ee-revnya

  ( a phrase which St Peter. mock us with:D Phew !!! Big deal! They are just jelouse)

[jb]

To my ear, untrained as it is, it still comes out "Moscow's a  big village".  The stress of the a-a-a-a, finishing with the non-existant short a, would be a mocking way of saying Moskva, with the a-a replacing the "o".  Yes, you are absolutely right about the differences in accents.  I see your point completely.

[jb]

Elen, I fear most of the men here will not be able to follow this sort of discussion, I suggest we return to the topic.

Edit:

I will tell you that I have been told a number of times by Russian women that I speak Russian with the "cutest" accent. I wonder if it's the same idea that we AM love to hear RWs speak English.  They love to hear AM try to get our tongues around the unpronouncable sounds (to us) in Russian, just as we love to hear a RW try to wrestle with English.  I think it's a street that runs both ways.

большое спасибо,,, or should that be, "бaaaльшое спасибо"

[Son of Clyde]

Russian with a Texas twang maybe?

[Elen]

большое спасибо,,, or should that be, "бaaaльшое спасибо"

бааааальшое спааааасибо is bigger than  большое спасибо 

[jb]

Elen,

бaaaльшое спаaaaсибо for the correction.

(but I think I knew that)