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Author Topic: Assumptions We Make  (Read 50919 times)

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Offline jb

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« Reply #150 on: August 22, 2005, 05:24:12 AM »
Give her 12 months and she'll become as American as apple pie.  They learn very quickly.

Offline KenC

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« Reply #151 on: August 22, 2005, 05:40:52 AM »
BC,

I was enjoying dating AW when I happened across Lena.  I was so uninformed about RW that I didn't even know what the hype was!  I went to Russia to meet an attractive and interesting woman that I got to know over the phone.  I didn't go to find a RW to marry.

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Offline RacerX

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« Reply #152 on: August 22, 2005, 06:29:23 AM »
Quote from: jb
we men set very high standards for the ladies.  

They must be pretty, slim, intelligent, mostly young, willing to give up everything they've ever known since childhood, learn an entirely new language, travel half way around the globe to a place where she'll be looked down upon, suffer slights and insults, and generally be regarded with suspicion because of her accent and lack of local cultural awareness.  

These are very high expectations, why shouldn't the women involved be allowed to set high standards themselves?


jb, this is probably the most succinct piece of writing I have come across in years of reading these boards.  If you have no objections, I would like to file it away for future use.

The fact is Clyde, and this is a no-brainer, we only know the on-board persona of the posters - and with only few exceptions, their wives never post here. Someday if you have the opportunity and can innocently eavesdrop (or have your wife report back to you) on a group of RW/AW at a party, you may be shocked to find that things aren't what the AM has portrayed them to be.  Indeed, there are a couple of studies that reveal that considerably less than half of the RW who come over here on K-visas actually love their husbands.  Most said they thought he was a nice, generous guy and the hoped that after a few years they could develop a normal love for him. I've heard others, which even surprised me since their relationship appeared fine, say they are just marking time until citizenship (or LPR) and were looking around for his replacement!

I guess what I am saying is we are all equal here, some have more experience than others, but that doesn't in any way whatsoever, guarantee them a better relationship that you may develop.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2005, 06:32:00 AM by RacerX »

Offline Son of Clyde

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« Reply #153 on: August 22, 2005, 07:25:39 AM »
Racerx,

I am beginning to feel (from my standpoint) that 5 or 6 years of happiness (if the woman is a decent one) outweighs the alternative to dating an AW.

When you are younger you can look 30 years into the future, when you are mid 50's you can look at the immediate future being better than the crappy present.

Offline Son of Clyde

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« Reply #154 on: August 22, 2005, 07:39:50 AM »
Racer, I was at a party and had a feeling a RW was trying to pick me up. Her husband was much older than me and I just happened to be in the same room at the same table. I think she was just flirty not necessarily unfaithful to him. 

Offline BC

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« Reply #155 on: August 22, 2005, 08:06:12 AM »
Quote from: KenC
BC,

I was so uninformed about RW that I didn't even know what the hype was!  I went to Russia to meet an attractive and interesting woman that I got to know over the phone.  I didn't go to find a RW to marry.


Met my wife travelling and also had no idea about the hype until after we met and were engaged.. ran across these boards looking for docs needed for marriage in RU. I even started believing some of the hype for a while thinking I had won the lottery twice in a row. Living together put things back into proper perspective very quickly.

Offline KenC

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« Reply #156 on: August 22, 2005, 08:43:39 AM »
RacerX,

Kind of curious about exactly which "studies" you are speaking about when you wrote:
Quote

Indeed, there are a couple of studies that reveal that considerably less than half of the RW who come over here on K-visas actually love their husbands. Most said they thought he was a nice, generous guy and the hoped that after a few years they could develop a normal love for him.

Care to share your sources?

KenC
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Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies-Thomas Jefferson

Offline jb

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« Reply #157 on: August 22, 2005, 08:47:47 AM »
RacerX wrote:
Quote
jb, this is probably the most succinct piece of writing I have come across in years of reading these boards. If you have no objections, I would like to file it away for future use.


Not being a "writer", I'm flattered you'd think I somehow came up with a gem.  You are welcome to save it, and use as you see fit.

Offline Michelangelo

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« Reply #158 on: August 22, 2005, 03:31:14 PM »
Quote from: BC
Maybe, like me, some men are bored of successful dating in America and are VERY attracted to a multi-cultural marriage and the excitment of traveling abroad and working through obsticles to achieve a goal--a smart, pretty foreign girl.

Michael,

Don't take this too critically, but how in the world can one get bored with successful dating?[/quote]
Because American girls don't have that beautiful, sexy accent.  Because American girls know all about American geography and history.  Because American girls are self-centered and driven for success in business.

Because what IF the GRASS is GREENER on the other side?

I tried it, and it was!  The streets of Ukraine, as one can see in Jack's posts, are like disneyland for men :)

Variety is the spice of life, BC.
The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark.  michelangelo

Offline PeeWee

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« Reply #159 on: August 22, 2005, 04:17:19 PM »
[user=130]Son of Clyde[/user] wrote:
Quote

The apartment issue is a family situation that is far out of control. My priority is to find our own home within the next 6 months.

Do I get a sense that RW upon arriving in their new country are, in general, not happy with their new dwellings?

I have a friend who lives in Vladivostok who is going to marry a guy who lives in Belgium. She has already let it be known that before they marry he must provide a different place for them to live in.

It was an eye opener for me to see where my lady lives. The building she lives in is hammered but her flat is as nice as any I have seen in a woman's interior design magazine. The contrast from outside to inside is dramatic. I can tell that she will go nuts with the decorating once she has her new home in the US.

PeeWee

Offline PeeWee

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« Reply #160 on: August 22, 2005, 04:42:19 PM »
[user=130]Son of Clyde[/user] wrote:
Quote
Why would a successful dater want to leave the US anyway? Successful seems to equate with happiness sometimes. Maybe there was a desire to date elsewhere. I was not happy with AW in general. My fear is that Iryna will become TOO Americanized over time. 

I was a successful dater in the US. The former Mrs. PeeWee was an movie actress, beauty queen, fashion model, and later a flight attendant, smart...and was and still is a great mother for PeeWee Junior. My lady prior to meeting my RW was a former Playboy bunny and is still, at 38, a model and has enough income from selling a night club that was given to her by some rich guy to live on for a long while. I'd say I as successful at dating American women.

I went to Russia because I am fascinated with the culture and the land. There are attractive women in Russia, just as there are everywhere. I have traveled all over the world. I have seen every woman in every country. There is nothing in Russia that one cannot find elsewhere, if not right in their own back yard.

I do not care for American women. Attitude is mostly why. I more prefer the Russian attitude because it matches my own, although I am not Russian. My current lady, of three years, although we took a break for a while because I was simply tired of her crap, I met in the US, in a hotel, in the city I live in. She has traveled here 4 times to meet me and I just took my first trip to Russia to meet her. I have been to Russia to met two other women.

I doubt that I would pursue a RW if she could not speak English, was of a low income, or no income, was younger than what I would date within the US. The woman I am current with is over 40. She has experience, is westernized already after traveling to the US for the past 15 years. She lived in NY for a time when she was in her 20s which was before the collapse of the Soviet Union. What I like about her is that she does not need me for anything, except for love and  affection. She is as arrogant as any woman of royalty would be. I can deal with that, most of the time. My point is that I did not need to take on all of this challenge and it is a huge challenge and expence to court a RW, expecially one who thinks that she was the czarina at one time.

So I say there is no boredom is one is doing this right. Be it the US, China, or Russia.

PeeWee

Offline PeeWee

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« Reply #161 on: August 22, 2005, 05:04:09 PM »
I might mention that my son, who traveled with me on this trip to Moscow told me that he had had is his fill of Russia. He would not return. In the last day there he met a young woman who was a waitress in the hotel. They had a nice chat and on the plane he showed me her address and as it turns out he asked me if he could return with me in the late fall. He is now writting a letter to her to see if he can establish a correspondence with her. If he is successful he will return. He too has not trouble finding a date in the US, in fact he has a 15 mile rule. Date no one who lives further than 15 miles from him. He was so taken with this Russian woman that he will for go his 15 mile rule and return to a city and country that he has absolutely no desire to visit.

PeeWee

Offline Photo Guy

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« Reply #162 on: August 22, 2005, 06:20:47 PM »
He might have seen a momentary flicker of Heaven's light.

Offline PeeWee

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« Reply #163 on: August 22, 2005, 08:01:10 PM »
[user=134]Photo Guy[/user] wrote:
Quote
He might have seen a momentary flicker of Heaven's light.

All I know is that she is pretty and from some part of russia where her facial features made me think at first that she was either Japanese or Chinese.

PeeWee

Offline Turboguy

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« Reply #164 on: August 23, 2005, 02:54:28 AM »
I just came back from a week in Dallas.   I had one observation.  The gals in Dallas are at least as pretty and sexy as the gals in Russia and maybe more so.   Of course they are not going to give a lot of us the time of day where the Russian gals will.

I have to agree with Clydes comments from back a bit.   I too find it in poor taste when people classify others as basically beneath them.   That goes for calling them Geeks, nerds, or gals shop girls in a demeaning way.    Personally I think an FSU woman who ends up married to a geek has a lot more chance of happiness than one who ends up married to someone who must put other people down to make himself feel good.   I think it is far better when people treat everyone with respect and courtesy. 

Offline jb

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« Reply #165 on: August 23, 2005, 03:33:21 AM »
Quote
I just came back from a week in Dallas.   I had one observation.  The gals in Dallas are at least as pretty and sexy as the gals in Russia and maybe more so.   Of course they are not going to give a lot of us the time of day where the Russian gals will.


I was born and raised in Big "D". I've traveled the world and have never seen prettier women than those coming from Dallas.  Jack doesn't like for me to say things like that, but it's true.  If you attended a trade show at the convention center you only saw the tip of the iceburg.  To get a real feel for what is living there, go to some of the larger apartment complexes during a summer weekend and check out what's lounging around the swimming pools.

There must be something in the water....

Offline KenC

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« Reply #166 on: August 23, 2005, 07:16:10 AM »
Turbo,

So when you write:
Quote

I have to agree with Clydes comments from back a bit.   I too find it in poor taste when people classify others as basically beneath them.   That goes for calling them Geeks, nerds, or gals shop girls in a demeaning way.    Personally I think an FSU woman who ends up married to a geek has a lot more chance of happiness than one who ends up married to someone who must put other people down to make himself feel good.   I think it is far better when people treat everyone with respect and courtesy. 


Do you mean that I should have used "socially challanged individuals"?  :P  Please note that the original post was not directed at any one individual, but that Clyde put himself into the catagory.  And what is your take on a middle aged man that doesn't have a decent place to live? Or enough dishes?  Kitchen utensils? Sheets? A/C?

As far as your idea that Clyde is respectful and courtious, I'm not the one threatening to kick anyone's azz, calling members here azzholes or sending vulgar PM's.

KenC
You are a den of vipers and thieves-Andrew Jackson on banks
Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies-Thomas Jefferson

Offline RacerX

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« Reply #167 on: August 23, 2005, 08:08:11 AM »
Quote from: KenC


And what is your take on a middle aged man that doesn't have a decent place to live? Or enough dishes?  Kitchen utensils? Sheets? A/C?


Sounds like a typical RM to me!  Now, that's making Mrs. Clyde feel right at home:cool:
« Last Edit: August 23, 2005, 08:08:00 AM by RacerX »

Offline KenC

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« Reply #168 on: August 23, 2005, 08:34:34 AM »
RacerX,

Exactly!  No need to move to the other side of the world, learn a new language, put yourself and son through culture shock ......

KenC
You are a den of vipers and thieves-Andrew Jackson on banks
Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies-Thomas Jefferson

Offline Son of Clyde

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« Reply #169 on: August 23, 2005, 08:37:49 AM »
KenC you earned those insults now take them like a man.

You are the one posting these insulting remarks to me as if I should lie back and take them. JB has even admitted himself that he uses 4 letter words when he talks to the guys.

You can give the insults but not take them as in your very first PM ever to me which i have saved also. I think you used the f word to me to not f up this board.

I told Dan about my PM to you and I asked to be removed from the board.

He says you are a good guy and mean well but can be rough around the edges.

That is an understatement.

Why do you not have the negative comments about the other guys. or maybe I have failed to see them as you think I am obsessed with myself.

At least I post honest things from my life.

JB sorry to sabotage the thread.

« Last Edit: August 23, 2005, 08:53:00 AM by Son of Clyde »

Offline Son of Clyde

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« Reply #170 on: August 23, 2005, 08:47:18 AM »
I believe this is what someone must put up with when they decide to make their life with a RW an open book.

I was hoping by my trial and errors others may benefit. I see now it is pointless to be completely open on a public board.

People take things out of context, make assumptions and post things you never actually intended. Much is true and much is not true.

It is time I stop contributing from my own life history and just read what others have to post.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2005, 09:25:00 AM by Son of Clyde »

Offline Turboguy

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« Reply #171 on: August 23, 2005, 08:54:28 AM »
Quote from: KenC
I sincerely think that the man you describe is in the minority of all men seek a RW.  I think that this process attracts many men unfit to enable a lasting relationship with anything more than a window plant.  Guys with no relationship skills let alone any dating skills.  These guys usually get hooked into some visa shark and never know what hit them.  I have always maintained that if a man has reasonably good success in dating AW, then he will do fine in the fsu, but that the MOB agencies attract a lot of geeks, dorks and social outcasts.

KenC



I don't think there is anything to be gained by a word by word alalisis but you have more than enough intelligence to be able to make your point without the name calling. 

Personally, my thoughts on the subject are that guys who are really not able to date successfully here do have a chance there.   They may not get a beauty queen and they do have a risk of finding a visa whore but they have a chance of a good relationship with a good woman.    Guys who date but are not skilled daters can do much better there than in the USA.   Everyone has a chance of finding a visa whore or a scammer.  Then, the ones who, as you call it, are skilled daters can probably come up with a real catch there.   I do think that some of the skilled daters can have too much success there and turn into a sex tourist pretty easily and that is bad for everyone.  

Some of my thoughts there are different than yours and some are very similar.   I think I managed to convey my thoughts in a way that no one would feel insutled.   I am sure you are smarter than me, so I think you could do the same if you cared to. 

Offline KenC

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« Reply #172 on: August 23, 2005, 09:32:27 AM »
[user=130]Son of Clyde[/user] wrote:
Quote
KenC you earned those insults now take them like a man.
Quote
What insults?  If you are talking about Turbo's post, I don't take that as an insult in any way.  He spoke his opinion and I spoke mine.
Quote

You are the one posting these insulting remarks to me as if I should lie back and take them. JB has even admitted himself that he uses 4 letter words when he talks to the guys.
Quote
The post in qustion here was never directed to you in any way.  I was thinking and writing about the general state of affairs regarding guys participating in MOB's.  As that was the topic of this thread started by jb.  (I was actually disagreeing with him and I don't think he was insulted)
Quote

You can give the insults but not take them as in your very first PM ever to me which i have saved also. I think you used the f word to me to not f up this board.
Quote
I tried to help Dan get this site started well.
Quote

I told Dan about my PM to you and I asked to be removed from the board.
Quote
Kinda childish, don't you think?
Quote

He says you are a good guy and mean well but can be rough around the edges.

That is an understatement.

Why do you not have the negative comments about the other guys. or maybe I have failed to see them as you think I am obsessed with myself.
Quote
I call them as I see them.  Ask Photoguy.  I busted his chops when I thought he was full of it and sided with him on other issues.
Quote

At least I post honest things from my life.
Quote
This statement infers that I am not honest?  I am one of those people (there are many) that chooses not to post every detail about their lives on a public forum.  You can continue to do so, if you wish.
Quote
KenC
You are a den of vipers and thieves-Andrew Jackson on banks
Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies-Thomas Jefferson

Offline jb

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« Reply #173 on: August 23, 2005, 09:41:03 AM »
I started this thread to highlight exactly what KenC has been talking about.  It is not surprising that it went over the heads of quite a few members.  When a newbie comes to the board we have to make some assumptions about him.  The very nature of this undertaking requires an above agerage man, socially, intellectually, and fiancially.  In other words, we give him credit for having his sh!t together by the time he reaches this point in his life.  

Then he starts to post... The examples are many and varied.

Because of the distances involved and the inherent dangers  of the gamble, we expect a man to react rationally rather than emotionally when confronted with scam letters and scam agencies, visa whores, outright hookers, and professional daters.  Yet we read crash and burn stories every other week.  Many men will eventually admit to falling in love with a photograph and a few e-mails, to having sent hundreds of dollars overseas via W/U to a woman they've never met.  This is not the behavior of rational, smart, got-his-head-screwed-on-right, savvy men.

In the past few weeks/months I've seen some posts from a few men and I can only shake my head at their profound and utter stupidity because I know things just don't work that way.  I'm not directing this towards anyone in particular, but I strongly suggest to those men in budding love relationships with women they haven't met, or only met once for a very few days, that they should stop and take stock of reason.  Ask themselves if the story jives with plain old human nature?  Russians are not from another planet, they are not all that different from Americans.  Subscribing real and dangerous human character flaws to cultural differences is a major error, and we see it happening everyday.

Offline KenC

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« Reply #174 on: August 23, 2005, 09:44:49 AM »
Turbo,

You wrote:
Quote

Personally, my thoughts on the subject are that guys who are really not able to date successfully here do have a chance there.   They may not get a beauty queen and they do have a risk of finding a visa whore but they have a chance of a good relationship with a good woman.    Guys who date but are not skilled daters can do much better there than in the USA.   Everyone has a chance of finding a visa whore or a scammer.  Then, the ones who, as you call it, are skilled daters can probably come up with a real catch there.   I do think that some of the skilled daters can have too much success there and turn into a sex tourist pretty easily and that is bad for everyone.  


I agree 100%.  I spoke to a friend who is going to Ukraine this fall, just last night.  He is a total charmer with the ladies here.  I told him that while he is in Ukraine is the closest he will ever be to being Hugh Hefner.  My concerns for him is not that he will turn his trip into a sex tour, but that he will "settle" for the first decent gal he meets.  I tried to explain to him to be very very picky.

KenC
You are a den of vipers and thieves-Andrew Jackson on banks
Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies-Thomas Jefferson

 

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