Getting confusing now

[chernoble]

Ok this is starting to confuse me in my situation.  I've been talking with this girl and she said she is not searching for serious mutual relationship now but wants to be my friend.  But she had told me before her goal is to go abroad and when I asked her if she wanted to do it with me she said probably.  She also has been very receptive to me and I need some interpretation of this meaning here.  Is this looking less like a serious chance and more like just a penpal or friends only relationship??  Or could it change into dating once I meet her in person or is that impossible?

[Shadow]

Two possibilities. First is that in your correspondence you are going too fast too soon and talk about things like visa and marriage before you have even met face to face. In that case she lets you know that she will not even consider such things until you meet.

Second possibility is that there is another guy who will visit before you and is also a serious candidate. She knows she might have to let you down in short time and is preparing you for the 'worst case' scenario.

[Kuna]

Chernoble,

I agree with Shadow but I'd suggest to you that you're approaching the correspondence all wrong based on what you've written.

Asking if she'd like to go overseas with YOU would scare any good woman right off... How would she know???  She's never met you!

Anyway woman that said yes would be a HUGE red flag (IMHO) and anyone asking the question wouldn't be considered seriously by most good woman.

Chill dude...  take your time... stop thinking about marrying them until you KNOW them...  right now all you should be looking for is compatible people you want to know more about.  Talking about marriage shouldn't come in to it until you've had at least one disagreement in my opinion!   

Kuna

[Gator]

Another possibility - she is very young and does not know what she wants, except that she knows she is too young to marry now. 

So to convince her to marry, she must fall in love, true love.  This takes time, and there is no guarantee that you will succeed.  DKMM encountered this type of woman twice, and twice has had to start over.

A RW with a goal to marry will not hide that fact.   So, you are wasting your time with this woman if your goal is marriage.  If your goal is to find a travel companion, she is a possibility.

[KenC]

chernoble,
Might I suggest that it is you that is complicating and confusing things and not her?  The boys above are correct in their advice.  Quit putting the horse before the cart.  You like her and she likes you.  Now go see her and see if it has any legs.  All the "what ifs" in the world cannot replace your first face to face meeting.  Get your butt on a plane and you will find your answers.  Good luck.
KenC

[chernoble]

Just so you know I did not mention anything about visa or marriage or if she likes/loves me etc.

I was originally trying to ask her during online chat what her dreams/goals are and she told me she wanted to go abroad and then I kind of half joked when I asked her if she wanted to do with me and she said yes.  But recently things have been problematic.  It was hard to get ahold of her on ICQ and on the phone and she told me she is very busy now and may not have much time on even ICQ these days.  I assume it could be tests for her school or her daily life but I haven't asked the reason and she did not tell me either.

Oh and heres a potential red flag I guess.  I checked on the dating site I found her on bride.ru and her profile is still there.  I had already removed mine so is this trouble?

What bothers me is I sent her an email about a month ago asking her for more details about her but she never responded!  Here is the transcript below:

I hope it is spring is coming in Ukraine now.  It is getting warmer everyday and the seasons are changing so fast.  I am curious to know more about you.  Can you tell me about your family?  What does your mother and father do?  Did you grow up in Kiev?  I have spent most of my life in x so I am a city guy at heart.  But I love nature where the air is cleaner and the beauty captures your eyes.  I really liked that photo of you jumping you are so full of life!

But what she did respond to me by email was I sent her a Valentine's card with a little pack of chocolates and she got it recently and sent me back an email not repsonding to my previous email question but thanking me for the gift.  I plan to send her maybe roses on Women's day and her B-day. 

Here is what she wrote:

I got your letter just!!!
Thank you for such wonderful gift! With me all is good. Not experience for me. you for me good friend! ;-)

And I sent back this reply:

I am glad to hear you like it.  It is good things are going well for you.  Tell me are you looking for a serious relationship?  That is what I am looking for to find someone I can have a serious relationship with?  How about you?

I am looking forward to hearing from you.

And she recently responded with this:

Hello
I want a clarity between you and me! I do not search serious mutual relations, to me now not to it!! Did I think
we with you friends!?

And my last email to her was this:

Yes I like to be your friend and I was hoping we could be more than friends once we get to know each other.  You told me before your goal is to go abroad right?  Are you searching for the right person to go to America with?  Even if right now you are not looking for a serious mutual relationship what about in the future?  Can you tell me maybe you will consider a serious relationship with me if things are right?

So tell me what this looks like to you guys.  Does this thing have legs or is it looking like a predictable disappointment?  I'm not really bothered if this already turning out to be a rejection.  I've revised my goal not to be marriage but to be her BF and develop into a serious relationship and I don't know if that can happen in the 1st meeting or not if its realistic.  Thoughts?

If your goal is to find a travel companion, she is a possibility.

What do you mean by "travel companion" Gator??  Is that the same as girlfriend?

[HiTech]

chernoble: I think you see the answer but are looking to make sure what you see is correct.

I assume you have not met this women?

If you have not met, then her picture on the internet sights is not an issue in any way.

I would be very concerned about her wanting to move. I have not met any women from the FSU who's first choice is not to move, but are willing to move for the right man.

You are obviously infatuated with her, if she was feeling the same about you, do you really think you would have trouble contacting her? She might be busy, but if she really wished to speak with you, I would think she would always let you know WHEN she can speak with you.

Also ask your self this question.

I assume you are looking for a wife. Do you really wish to go 1/2 around the world to meet some one who you hope to make your wife, when she is not interested in a husband?

I would not get on a plane to see only her from your descriptions. If you really think she is a possibility, then find some other women in the same city, exchange 2 or 3 emails with them to set up meetings. Jump on a plane and go meet all of them.

Also make a list of at least 5 things that the women you are looking for must have. Make 1 of those items , she wants the same type of relationship you want, and describe that relationship (wife, just fun, just friends, just sex, travel partner, mule rider, what ever).

When you write the new ladies, make sure they have all or your MUST HAVE criteria.

HiTech

[myrddin]

Just my perspective: it seems clear that she doesn't want the same things you do.  My guess is she really does like you and wants to be friends, but she's scared and/or not ready for more.  She said she wasn't seeking a serious relationship and you asked about it twice in the next message 

I think that, like me, you're not trying to "just fill a wife void".  But if you do find your soul mate you will marry her, and I wouldn't give up on that. It's tricky to avoid putting pressure on things early, but you deserve what you're ultimately seeking (just as a worthy woman deserves to be wooed and pursued). Did you change your goal for her or for yourself? 

I totally agree that horses have to go before carts, but at the same time I'd say both people should be at least open to the same possibilities before someone flies 6,000 miles. 

[Shadow]

chernoble, from the test of her messages I see that she (or you) are using an internet translator.
And it is not working.

I get a completely contrary idea of her answers, and I believe that you are confusing her as much as you are confused by her answer.

Lets review the confusion here.
1. She mentioned that you are a good friend in the thank you note.
As you have not met her, how should she refer to you ? A lover ? A potential groom ? Do not forget that you have not met face to face so her mentioning you as a 'friend' is the most you can expect at this time.

2. You ask her 'do you seek serious relations'
Now we are using an online translator. That means that it does not come out in the exact phrasing you use, and I could expect it to look to her like 'Are you looking for other men'. From this her answer...

3. I want a clarity between you and me! I do not search serious mutual relations, to me now not to it!! Did I think
we with you friends!?
This could be translated as: I want to be clear, I am not looking for other men right now. I thought we are building a seriuos relation ?

I could be totally wrong on this, on the other hand it could be spot on.
To find out, write a letter telling that you are confused and she might be as well, explaining what you were writing and why. Then get it translated in Russian by a translator, so that the meaning will not be distorted.  Ask her to write back in Russian, and get the answer translated as well.

In any case it will be clear where you stand after that.

[Turboguy]

Since jb is not here I will do my best imitation. With so many beautiful serious women there what are you wasting your time for?

[chernoble]

I could be totally wrong on this, on the other hand it could be spot on.
To find out, write a letter telling that you are confused and she might be as well, explaining what you were writing and why. Then get it translated in Russian by a translator, so that the meaning will not be distorted.  Ask her to write back in Russian, and get the answer translated as well.

In any case it will be clear where you stand after that.

Ok just to clarify I am not using an online translator on email.  I type in English only.  She I think uses some kind of translator for email I can't be sure if its an online translator or her own typing probably online. 

But on the instant chat I have her type to me in Cyrillic and I translate online b/c when she typed her translated English on instant chat it is very difficult to understand vs the online translation I use.

And for Turboguy and jb's opinion you have to understand I am just tired from looking through a million web sites and all the reliable info I have collected indicates the best chance to find a decent girl would be in the local agencies in Kiev not online.  But I really don't think that can work b/c I am not a native in those parts, I don't speak the language and I don't have a wingman like Taz handy.  I hate to admit it but doing this solo for a beginner like me really sucks.  I'm not going to do it again if this doesn't work out.  Its making me disillusioned and its cheaper without the jet lag to get the same experience at home.

[Shadow]

Believe me, I recognize the sentence building. She is using Promt http://www.promt.ru to translate her letters.
The few sentences you copied have all the marks of Russian sentence building with words translated to English. If she would know English, the sentences would look a little different.

And if she uses it to write letters, I give a 99% chance that she is putting your letters through the online translator to read them. Which will make it similar broken sentences.

I have used online translators and have developed a good feeling for interpreting them. If you take their outcome literally, it is usually big trouble.

[HiTech]

Also always have her email in russian. There can be a huge difference in online translators. I have found google to be head an shoulders above the rest.

I also agree with Shadow, how he reads the sentence could be right on the mark, and she is actually saying she is interested in a relationship, and is not looking for anyone else.

HiTech

[Jumper]

Oh and heres a potential red flag I guess.  I checked on the dating site I found her on bride.ru and her profile is still there.  I had already removed mine so is this trouble?

LOL ok-
I guess an OMB responce is to be expected....


Ok Chernobyle
You seem a decent guy, and  seriuos about this whole venture ,


but what on earth  are you thinking?

nowhere on this forum , or from anyones advice ,
will you see any "red flag" at ALL associated with a woman you havnt met.
 having her profile up,or leaving it up


if i can make one point clear to you it would be..
get a better grasp of the reality of this type of dating or meeting


dude, she SHOULD have a profile up, and she should leave it up.
and you should expect that.  
its the very least of your worries at the moment, thats for dang sure.

she has no idea wether you will ever fly to see her..

no matter how seriuos you know yourself to be..,
your typed words are no different than 1,000 other keyboard romeos that would type the exact same things to her.

and to be honest, nothing she says indicates any romantic interest in you.
(at least in what youve shared)

listen-
 nothing in the correspondence youve shared with us here ,
 indicates  you have even a pen pal level relationship.

why would you think she should pull her profile?
 did you even discuss it with her?(you have no right to ask her to,,but did you even speak of the fact you dropped yours)
 have you even discussed a time to visit ,
or if she wants you to actaully visit?

hey, you may have better emails between you,, lets hope so!!
 but unless you get something with a bit more content ,and a higher level of interest , i would seriously wait on buying your tickets

To me it sounds more like she is telling you politely she isnt "that" intereted,
at least at the moment.(could be for a million different  reasons)

you couldnt be further away from expecting her to take   a  profile down..

and i cant imagine why you took yours down?


I wish you the best of luck,
 i am a positive person, and seldom negative..
but i see things black and white.

so in your future in this venture i'd like to present some pretty good generalities for you to live by-

if a RW is seriuosly interested in you,
enough to warrant flying to see her..
 you wont have to guess.

if you have to guess,
it is NOT time to go see her ,
its not the time to expect anything at all..
much less sweating some profile..or details of her personal life.

she had a life before you wrote her, it did not suspend..or stop, she's still living it.
(and expects nothing significant to change from a random guy emailing her)

its time to develope the correspodence or phone relationship further,
 no guess work is needed.
trust me, if she WANTS you to visit,, you will not be her asking us questions about it.


once actually meeting ,
if a RW is seriously interested in you (for whatever motives, good or bad)
you will know it.
 
if a RW loves you,
you may have ups or downs in the relationship, as most people do,,but you will never have the question if she "loves" you.

these are generalities, so there are going to be exceptions,,

Hey i wont kid you,   RW may leave a man  scratching his head,
in puzzlement ,bewilderment, or amazement,..

 but NOT about the above three topics.



I hate to pick out only the negatives in your posts about this *relationship*..

The girl has a profile up on BRIDE.ru right?

then when asked about her interest in you..
replies she isnt looking for a serious relationship right now..


i'm sorry ,i cant be as gentle as the other posters.

you got a "lets be friends " responce .. to a small flirt..


this particular girl, at least at this time , is not interested in you.
(more than a penpal or friends)

if she was ,she'd say something,or pick up on your flirting or something."anything"

instead she distances herself a bit.
isnt as easy to contact,etc.

this could be because:
a: you havnt corresponded long enough ( to her)  even be near
thinking about meeting each other.she feels rushed by your innueando or questions.

b: she simply isnt romantically intererested ,or has others she is more interested in


how long have you corresponded?(or ICQed)
have you ever called her? (and how'd that go?)

from what you posted, you have
what amounts to a couple email exchange after viewing each other profiles.
nothing more ,nothing less.

[Jumper]

I do see shadows point-
the translation programs stink,
 and could be confusing her intent
(although it appears clear)


its why for the millioneth time, i will advise anyone in this endeavor to CALL
as soon as you have enough interest level in each other to do so.

if it takes a three way translator call. so be it.
youll still get a MUCH bettergrasp of isf the person is excited to hear from you..or not.

money very very well spent..and wouldnt you rather hear each others voices anyway?

[Jumper]

chernobyl said

I don't speak the language and I don't have a wingman like Taz handy.  I hate to admit it but doing this solo for a beginner like me really sucks.  I'm not going to do it again if this doesn't work out. Its making me disillusioned and its cheaper without the jet lag to get the same experience at home.
 

to get the same experience?

yes dating women, is dating women.
(fun? or frustrating? what have you )

nationality will not change the fundamentals.
you've posted before that dating women in your own culture ,and also locally..
hasn't been the best of luck for you,and your looking elsewhere.
and thats good to broaden your pool of available women.
Smart, and something a RW can relate to and understand.
 
please do not look at the FSU as some answer to women ,relationships, and dating though!!

 
sentiments  like:
"I'm not going to do this again if this time doesn't work out"

Are a recipe for disaster.
you are already building an near impossible expectation before you type your first words to any random RW.
much less visit!

it is a mindset that has you hanging on each word in her replies,,
 over analyzing them..
and very likely initially gives a note of desperation or neediness in even your first emails to them.

you cant buy a bigger bottle of "chick repellent" cologne,
 than than being viewed as a bit desperate or needy.

double its repellent effectiveness, if applied before meeting a RW.



as far as needing a wingman,
everyone is different..
it might make a guy more comfortable in new surroundings.
or being able to have the language helps to initiate conversations with new girls,.,

but women generally like a confident man..(i said confident ,not cocky )

for myself i would be Uncomfortable with a wingman,in the case of looking for romance? who wants or needs a third wheel?
when single , i would attempt to chat up a girl i thought was interested regardless if i knew her language or not..  
if i can make her laugh, we have a start,, and either she'll find my silliness deplorable.. or interesting.. who's to know?
 some other guy talking to her that knows the language,
 likely isn't going to be a big help to me ,even if he is trying to set me up.


I've said before, your very best formula for success in this venture is to
 become a man that  women are interested in locally.

RW are not an alien species..
(ok ok i do honestly wonder about that sometimes, LOL but i'm married so that should explain )

anyway they are simply women of another nationality,
so they will also be interested,
 and no ,you shouldn't  have to guess if they are.

[Daveman]

Chernoble...

Excellent advice and suggestions in this thread to you.  I cannot recommend highly enough using a professional translator for your letters.  This type of confusion can break a relationship before it ever gets off the ground.  Send her letters in Russian, translated competently, and tell her to send you letters only in Russian.  She may be a little 'standoffish' in the letters at first having a third pair of eyes reading what she writes, but the benefits FAR outweigh the possible problems.

I am in communication now with a lady who speaks English very well, but I still send letters to her using a pro translator (AnastassiaAsh on this board) so that there is no idiotic miscommunication... when there is something on the phone that confuses us, we simply say "I'll send it in next letter" and that's the end of the confusion. It's also like a safety net in that we know that any confusion can be dealt with immediately so we are even MORE free to express many complex ideas over the phone without worrying about it.  If something creeps up, it goes in the next letter...  And also, in your case as mentioned earlier in this thread, actually using three way phone communication with the interpreter is not a bad idea for communicating more complex ideas.

Using this method of English on phone with strictly Russian letters has allowed me to really get to know much more about a lady, with a MUCH deeper understanding of her intentions, character, etc.. and on a much shorter time line.

Being a very independent, muleheaded, wanna do it my way kinda guy, it was rather difficult for me to make the decision to try it... but, I don't regret it for a moment as I see the results.

Food for thought bro,
Good luck!
Dave 

[Gator]

Chernoble,

Months ago, I told you repeatedly that the RW endeavor is not for you.  I said you would be wasting your time and money.   I think you are doing exactly that.  


Maybe after a couple of years of dating local women you will be ready.  However, you are not ready today.  AJ is saying essentially the same.

Stop writing and stay home.  You will save your money and avoid frustration and confusion.  

If you persist on going, the best alternative for you is probably a group tour, or a local agency who will arrange everything for you and be available to answer your battlefield questions.  Send a PM to Jack and ask him about the tours.  Send a PM to agencies such as Tver Angels or Kherson Girls.  Nevertheless, if you do go, do not expect anything other than a travel adventure and some polite meetings with beautiful women.  Do not expect more because I doubt if more will happen.

[catzenmouse]

Chernoble,

 Seems that you have picked a very apt name there. Continue on as you are and you will end up as the original of that name.

 Nothing more I can say as many others here have given you all the information that you need to go forward as well as what you need to step back and go on about your life in local terms.

AJ,

 A few more lessons down at OMB's R Us and you'll be right there with the rest of us. Good Start though!

Ken

[KenC]

Ok just to clarify I am not using an online translator on email.  I type in English only.  She I think uses some kind of translator for email I can't be sure if its an online translator or her own typing probably online. 

But on the instant chat I have her type to me in Cyrillic and I translate online b/c when she typed her translated English on instant chat it is very difficult to understand vs the online translation I use.

And for Turboguy and jb's opinion you have to understand I am just tired from looking through a million web sites and all the reliable info I have collected indicates the best chance to find a decent girl would be in the local agencies in Kiev not online.  But I really don't think that can work b/c I am not a native in those parts, I don't speak the language and I don't have a wingman like Taz handy.  I hate to admit it but doing this solo for a beginner like me really sucks.  I'm not going to do it again if this doesn't work out.  Its making me disillusioned and its cheaper without the jet lag to get the same experience at home.

Cherry,
Pursuing RW is not for beginners.  You're a neophyte.  Stay home.

Seriously, Dude, I read your post trying to make head or tales of her emails and after it induced a coma like sleep I had dreams of junior high.  I mean come on!  Do you think she likes me guys?  Huh?  Waddau think?  You sound like you're passing notes in history class.

Here's what you do.  Stop this ridiculous notion of going to Russia now.  Join a local dating agency like "just lunch" or even e Harmony and get some experience with women.  Hell, you might even want to hire a hooker or two.  (just make sure you "cover up")  Good luck, seriously.
KenC

(Did anyone else's hair stand up on the back of their necks when Turbo tried to imitate jb?  Or was it just me?)

[chernoble]

Hi could Shadow or anyone else help me interpret this email I just got from her?  It looks like this could be a good trip after all.  this seems promising but I just want to be sure my interpretation is not messed up on this.  What does she mean by "Tell as you put?!"

Hi
I am glad that you are my friend! and I want for a border, but not at this time! Let us socialize with you
and it will be visible there!
Tell as for you put?

Also what does she mean by this:

segodnishniy bell of rozbudil all my the family

I did call her every weekend but recently its gooten hard to reach her.  Its really wierd but her cell phone # I cannot get through in the evening Ukraine time only morning/noon Kiev time.  I get this wierd Ukrainian/English automated message saying its unavailable and she didn't turn it off b/c she had previously asked me to call her in the evening so its some strange technical problem.  But I can call her on her home # no prob.  I still believe persistence pays off!

[Turboguy]

There is only one jb and I could never measure up Ken. I was just joking because so much of the advice seemed to sugar coated.
Anyone serious about hanging it up at this stage doesn't have what it takes to suceed. It does get discouraging and I will take it to be temporary down at the dumps syndrome. Gator had the best advice. Go on one of Jack's tours. It is the perfect answer.

[Shadow]

Hi
I am glad that you are my friend! and I want for a border, but not at this time! Let us socialize with you
and it will be visible there!
Tell as for you put?

Shadows translation:
Hi,
I am glad you are my friend! And I want to leave my country, but not at this moment! Let us meet first and see what happens next!
Can you accept that ?

segodnishniy bell of rozbudil all my the family

Mrs Shadows translation:
The ring of your call today woke up all of my family.

[chernoble]

The ring of your call today woke up all of my family.

Oh sh!t!  I guess it wasnt a good idea to try calling her Sunday 8am 

Thank you Shadow and Mrs Shadow!

[BillyB]

  I still believe persistence pays off!

chernoble, It's time to take a hint, move on and find a woman who'd put as much effort as you do into building a relationship. If a woman has the hots for you, she wouldn't put up this much resistance like the woman you're currently focused on. Contact many women until you find one who really likes you.