Married RW: What do you miss in your new country?

[Photo Guy]

Cultural differences.

Please tell us about those things that you had in the FSU,
that you wished you had here in the West.

Also tell us what things you have grown to like here in the West,
that you did not have in the FSU.

What were some of the surprises?

[BC]

Reported here:

Smetana
Kefir
Good Salo
Salt fish
Caviar

[Misha]

Kefir

We solved this problem. My wife got the bacterial culture to make kefir from some Russian friends, so we now make our own kefir at home and we can also use this kefir to make our own tvorog.

What my wife misses the most: being able to watch television and do everything else in her own language.

[Eduard]

My wife mostly misses her family and friends. They are very close and it's tough on her not to have them with us on holidays and special dates. Skype video conferencing helps, it's better than nothing, but still it's not the same. Her mom and dad visited us a couple of times and stayed with us for a few months and they truly are awesome people. Every time I hate to see them go (never imagined that I'd be feeling this way about my in laws!)
My wife also misses her work. It's such a shame that here in Florida the dental "Mafia" as we call them was able to lobby for such restrictive protectionist policies toward foreign-trained dentists. They make it next to impossible to get licensed here, so having a small child, she accepted the idea that she will never practice dentistry again (unless we decided to move back to Russia).
Last couple of years I've only been going to see dentists in Moscow - my wives ex-collegues and friends at the clinic where she used to work. They are highly skilled and I like their work better than my old dentist's here in FL. (Not to mention they are 5 times less expensive).  They use exactly the same equipment that dentists use here in the US.
She really misses her friends from work and I can see why!!! They are so much fun to hang out with and have a couple of beers with after work!

What she likes here is the fact that we live near the Gulf of Mexico and get to go to the beach all year round. She likes the feeling of security and stability here and the fact that if a person gets good education here in the US they can make a very good living. In her own field: dentists in Florida make at least 250K a year compared to about 25K a year that an average good Russian dentist makes in Moscow.
And also she likes big sales that we have here in the US. Stores like Marshalls, TJ Max, and Ross were a big surprise for her. They don't have those discount retailers in Russia and people are used to paying premium prices for everyting.
She is also impressed with the level of service here in the US.

[Eduard]

We solved this problem. My wife got the bacterial culture to make kefir from some Russian friends, so we now make our own kefir at home and we can also use this kefir to make our own tvorog.

What my wife misses the most: being able to watch television and do everything else in her own language.

Gabaub, my wife makes that buttermilk (kefir) thingie as well! By the way we tryed making it from different types of milk and it comes out best when we use organic whole milk
In regard to Russian TV, I believe that you can get Russian cable channel for about $25 a month. I know that most Russians here and in NY where I used to live have it. If you want I can find out more info for you.
My wife also misses her language even though we only speak Russian at home, but she is adjusting slowly but surely.

[aikorob]

Tea
Mac Coffee
Being able to simply go to the Dr or Dentist without much planning---and rushing to get there before 5:00
Being able to buy the medicines she needs without that aforementioned visit

[AnastassiaAsh]

I miss – good level of education, friends. Yes, some food, but can get it here in Russian stores. Good, deep, interesting and not superficial conversations.

I like here – the country of possibilities, where one can have a good job according to their professionalism and skills. Ability to earn, save and make your own stable future. Ability for young people to buy a house and start their own family separately from their parents. Great roads, almost everybody following the rules. Not worrying about making both ends meet, but actually concentrating more on the quality of your relationship, kids, and relatives. Becoming a US citizen gives more traveling freedom and respect. The land of everything being private – clean and beautiful both interior and exterior. Service is of high quality – the market of buyers not sellers, mostly. Possibility of getting your money back if the service didn't satisfy you. Healthy life style by most of the population – sport clubs, no smoking and such…. Overall very high quality of life for those who are smart, hard working and ambitious. I am blessed to be raising my family here and being able to provide bright future for my son.

[Eduard]

I miss – good level of education, friends. Yes, some food, but can get it here in Russian stores. Good, deep, interesting and not superficial conversations.

I like here – the country of possibilities, where one can have a good job according to their professionalism and skills. Ability to earn, save and make your own stable future. Ability for young people to buy a house and start their own family separately from their parents. Great roads, almost everybody following the rules. Not worrying about making both ends meet, but actually concentrating more on the quality of your relationship, kids, and relatives. Becoming a US citizen gives more traveling freedom and respect. The land of everything being private – clean and beautiful both interior and exterior. Service is of high quality – the market of buyers not sellers, mostly. Possibility of getting your money back if the service didn't satisfy you. Healthy life style by most of the population – sport clubs, no smoking and such…. Overall very high quality of life for those who are smart, hard working and ambitious. I am blessed to be raising my family here and being able to provide bright future for my son.

Anastasia,
all great points! Yes my wife also feels that raising our daughter in the US is a much better choice than in Russia. I wish you would have said something when I was being attacked for asking why would anyone want to live in Russia/Ukraine (other than dating women) when they can live in the West, in my very first thread. All the positive qualities of life that are described in your post here, are great reasons for living here in the US and not in the FSU, IMHO.
And by the way, my wife is still amazed that we can return things we bought even after a few weeks to a store we bought them from. It's unheard of in Russia!

[Blues Fairy]

As I am still unable to work or drive due to my immigration status, I miss acutely the independence I had in Moscow.  Friends of course, language, society, audience and my colleagues the musicians, access to culture and resources of a big city, the lively atmosphere of Moscow compared to a small town that Raleigh is. 

What I don't miss: the air of Moscow, the traffic jams, the corrupt cops, the boorish crowds.  The every day need to survive and my 100% responsibility for it.

What I don't like here: the slow and inconsiderate govt workers, the expensive and not easily accessible medical care, the boorish illegal immigrants, the outdated fashions and shoes, the fat- and carb-laden food in restaurants.  But it's all secondary.  The important things are: nature is awesome and my husband is wonderful.  The rest is manageable.   

[vwrw]

My mom and my best female-friend are those I wish I had beside me here. And I cannot say I suffer of absence of other things I had in Russia and which are not available here.

I have grown to love smiling without any reason. You smile to people…people smile to you back and you feel as positives energy are strengthening inside you. Other of the things I like here I liked in Russia also, so I cannot say I have grown to like them here.

I miss – good level of education,

Please, could you explain what you implied by words you miss a good level of education?

[AnastassiaAsh]

But it is strange because I still probably wouldn't want to be born here, allthough i am happy that my son was. I feel like I got the best of two countries, you know. It takes to be born in Russia and being raised in that way to actually have this beautiful all sacrificial heart of a Russian woman. Culture, language, literature - something that formed our values that AM value so much.

I feel much more independent here than there. Driving and work are just temporary problems that will be definitely solved in time. Also it is so different when you are successful and in the place where you love and want to be, but alone  vs.  with your beloved one. Two different levels of happiness.  For me being alone and single is an absolute disaster and torture, no matter in what luxurious place I am...

[AnastassiaAsh]

Education - I meant in my opinion level of education here is much worse than in Russia. Level of knowledge of kids on almost all levels is lower than back in Moscow schools as I can remember. I wouldn't want to go into details why. There is another thread somewhere about it...

[Blues Fairy]

Anastassia, wouldn't private schooling solve this concern?  I hear one can get a considerable tax break in some states if they send their kid to a private school. 

My guy and I have the same thoughts; we wouldn't want our kid(s) to go to public schools here in the U.S.  Sending them to Russia for their elementary education, like some of my Russian friends residing in U.S. and Canada contemplate, is not a solution for us since my husband wouldn't live in Russia.  So we'll look for a place that would allow us to afford reasonable private education.

[ScottinCrimea]

My wife has commented most recently on how she misses the natural foods in Ukraine.  she describes the food here as "synthetic".  Unless you choose apple cider or orange juice, you're reduced to juices "from concentrate" with various additives.  We eat a lot of fruits and vegetables, but they just don't compare to those in Ukraine.

She also misses reading material in Russian.  We can get some magazines, etc. from the local Russian store but not enough to satisfy her enjoyment of reading.  I've heard there are some Russian language books available at the local library so that is our next stop, but I'm sure there are not many recent publications.

I find her experience very similar to my own when I moved there.  At first there was a lot that I missed, but over time I learned where to find most of them or at least reasonable substitutes.  It just takes some effort.

[Faux Pas]

I miss – good level of education, friends. Yes, some food, but can get it here in Russian stores. Good, deep, interesting and not superficial conversations.

WOW! Interesting thread.

Anastassia,
Superficial conversations in American society are pretty much a prerequisite into deeper meaningful conversations. Think of it as an opportunity to decide if you would like to have a further conversation with this person. I assume you are referring to when someone asks" how are you doing?" when it is blantantly obvious they do not want to know or even care? Superficial conversations  is not neccessarily a bad thing when used to your advantage. Example: when someone engages you into a superficial conversation most times they are showing interest in you and gauging whether or not they would like further conversation with you. I really do not know how our society evolved into this as opposed to the more direct europeon/russian approach but it seems to work here.

I have grown to love smiling without any reason. You smile to people…people smile to you back and you feel as positives energy are strengthening inside you. Other of the things I like here I liked in Russia also, so I cannot say I have grown to like them here.

Nice post. It takes fewer muscles to smile than to frown. Smiles are contaigous and one actually has the power to make someone else feel better just by a simple smile

[mischief]

I can hardly call comparison an accurate one if a person compares his/her life in a big FSU city with a life in a small town in the US ...
I miss my family the most... everything else you can find it here... especially in NY...
Those who have problems with fruit and vegetables should consider buy organic or from local farms...
The advantage of living in the US is the choice... depends on your cultural, geographical, educational and other priorities...

[Eduard]

WOW! Interesting thread.

Anastassia,
Superficial conversations in American society are pretty much a prerequisite into deeper meaningful conversations. Think of it as an opportunity to decide if you would like to have a further conversation with this person. I assume you are referring to when someone asks" how are you doing?" when it is blantantly obvious they do not want to know or even care? Superficial conversations  is not neccessarily a bad thing when used to your advantage. Example: when someone engages you into a superficial conversation most times they are showing interest in you and gauging whether or not they would like further conversation with you. I really do not know how our society evolved into this as opposed to the more direct europeon/russian approach but it seems to work here.


Nice post. It takes fewer muscles to smile than to frown. Smiles are contaigous and one actually has the power to make someone else feel better just by a simple smile

Good post!
There's also a huge difference if your friends are well educated professionals here in the US. You would find that they have a lot of things other than superficial stuff to talk about. But there are a couple of character trait differences that I noticed. Americans in general are more standoffish and tend to keep an invisible wall between themselves and their friends/acquaintances. There are well defined guidelines what you can/can not talk about or do. Russians tend to have fewer restrictions on that.
I do find that Russian youngster have a lot more rounded and comprehensive education. maybe that's because the education culture is very different there. I found the difference pretty shocking when after attending college in Russia I then went to College here in the US.
It seems like in Russia everyone starting with your parents and your teachers really are vested in a youngster's education. They "make" them study well, the teachers are very demanding and sometimes make students perform in ways that here in the US probably would be consider mentally abusive! Parents also participate and are in touch with the teachers if they see their child's grades sliding. When I went to school in Moscow, we used to have "Dnevnik" a daily report note book where if I wasn't behaving well in school or came there without completing my homework a teacher would write a note to my parents...and then I'd have to deal with the consequences at home...my dad's belt sometimes if I did something very bad...we also didn't have multiple choice tests which make things a lot easier for students to pass. They can read a text book once and have a pretty good chance of passing a multi choice test. In order to pass a test they gave us in Russian schools you really had to know! Study in depth and gain a deep knowledge of the subject. I've been out of Russian educational system for quite a while now so I don't know how it is now, but in the past IMO Russian kids had a much better education and gained deeper knowledge of subjects compared to their American counterparts.
I don't know the exact stats but from what I see and read a large proportion of American scientists are from Russia. As I mentioned in the other thread I just met up with the guy I knew since i was 7 yo we went to school together...well he is now in the US working for NASA
and a couple of other people from my class are also here, scientists recruited by American companies.
Here in the States - a student is pretty much

[Gator]

Blues Fairy,

Overall, it sounds as if you are doing fine, better than most Muscovites beamed down to Raleigh.  You are intelligent and sophisticated, so I wondered how you would do because I know both Moscow and Raleigh.  

Keep us informed please.  Your observations would be priceless, and would offer insight into the clash of cultures.  

Raleigh is not New York City, never will be, and they don't want to be.  Yes, they wear conservative fashions, a preppy style that has been around for a long, long time (and some men probably have neckties older than their teenage children).  Speaking of old, what do you think of the dance "The Shag"?  They have been doing that same dance since the 60s.  I find it ludicrous today, but then I have traveled north of the Mason-Dixon Line (and went to graduate school in the Ivy league north).

Believe it or not, life is much, much better now than when I was there.  The only good restaurants then were steak houses.  I had to drive to Washington DC to be served a cocktail.  I recall an outspoken New York comedian  named Bette Middler  (now in her 60s) giving a performace at a comic club and lambasting the city worse than Krimster's account of Ukraine.  

Yet, I have many cherished memories such as intimate, live concerts of R&B originators  Ike and Tina Turner, Bo Diddley and James Brown.  You mentioned nature.  The beach, (particularly Outer Banks), and the mountains are idyllic.

Schools?  You have a way to go.  If you continue to live in the South or overpopulated areas, you will need private schools.  Although I did fine with 35 kids in my elementary classrooms.  Up north, the school districts are usually more self-funded, and if you reside in a small center of enlightenment (university town), the public schools can be acceptable.  I am surprised, however, that the gene pool of the Raleigh students is not better considering the RTP.

[BC]

Good post!
There's also a huge difference if your friends are well educated professionals here in the US. You would find that they have a lot of things other than superficial stuff to talk about. But there are a couple of character trait differences that I noticed. Americans in general are more standoffish and tend to keep an invisible wall between themselves and their friends/acquaintances. There are well defined guidelines what you can/can not talk about or do. Russians tend to have fewer restrictions on that.
I do find that Russian youngster have a lot more rounded and comprehensive education. maybe that's because the education culture is very different there. I found the difference pretty shocking when after attending college in Russia I then went to College here in the US.
It seems like in Russia everyone starting with your parents and your teachers really are vested in a youngster's education. They "make" them study well, the teachers are very demanding and sometimes make students perform in ways that here in the US probably would be consider mentally abusive! Parents also participate and are in touch with the teachers if they see their child's grades sliding. When I went to school in Moscow, we used to have "Dnevnik" a daily report note book where if I wasn't behaving well in school or came there without completing my homework a teacher would write a note to my parents...and then I'd have to deal with the consequences at home...my dad's belt sometimes if I did something very bad...we also didn't have multiple choice tests which make things a lot easier for students to pass. They can read a text book once and have a pretty good chance of passing a multi choice test. In order to pass a test they gave us in Russian schools you really had to know! Study in depth and gain a deep knowledge of the subject. I've been out of Russian educational system for quite a while now so I don't know how it is now, but in the past IMO Russian kids had a much better education and gained deeper knowledge of subjects compared to their American counterparts.
I don't know the exact stats but from what I see and read a large proportion of American scientists are from Russia. As I mentioned in the other thread I just met up with the guy I knew since i was 7 yo we went to school together...well he is now in the US working for NASA
and a couple of other people from my class are also here, scientists recruited by American companies.
Here in the States - a student is pretty much

Eduard,

by far your greatest contribution to date.

Thanks

[mark2353]

Having spent most of my life in the US is difficult at time to notice the waterdown foods and taste differences. I recently found that by making a small investment I can make juice that I used to have years ago. Juicer is fantastic for about $50 you can buy one it is fantastic (pain to clean) worth every moment. That might solve one problem!!
I am from Argentina so what I miss most is the flavors of the meat. Here it is almost none existent. I almost do not eat it anymore because of it. 

[Kuna]

I'd agree with many of the things said above and add that my wife is REALLY missing Ukrainian style bread. 

Maybe it's just a craving but I hear about it every day... sometimes a few times a day... and every now and then I get an SMS at work reminding me she is REALLY MISSING UKRAINIAN STYLE BREAD too.   

I shouldn't laugh because I appreciate and understand what she means.

My Latvian stepfather was in Australia for 50 years and he would still complain about the bread at every opportunity.

We've tried everywhere and every alternative we can find but nothing compares.  The mission this weekend is to go out and buy a breadmaker to try that out.  A Ukrainian friend of ours says that what she resorted to a few years ago.

My wife says when she goes back to Ukraine next time she will only eat bread for her whole trip.

We've found most other groceries...  Ikra, kefir (Buttermilk), Smetana (good quality sour cream that Mama LOVED), salted fish, sweets... We found a new russian shop that has a HUGE range of movies and books.. a few magazines too...

My wife LOVES the fresh fruit, vegetables and seafood we have here...  She loves buying milk knowing it will keep for longer than a day or two.

She loves the clean air, ocean, friendly people and my family and her have become very close.

She misses her friends and family but had lived away for 2 years previously so she was expecting that.

We had to get some documents witnessed recently so we went down to the local police station and she left with a beaming smile on her face saying it was wonderful that police could be so friendly, polite and helpful.     Let's hope they stay that way next time I get caught for speeding! 

I know she misses work but she keeps herself as busy as possible here.  Her new fulltime job is keeping ME busy so everything is working out for her. 

She also misses Georgian wine (Semi-sweet red stuff) but that won't be a big issue for a long time... We found an alternative but it's still not quite the same.

Oh, something she still comments on regularly is how clean the streets etc are.  I know littering was a HUGE frustration for her in UKR because she'd always comment on it when we were there...

[Faux Pas]

Good post!
There's also a huge difference if your friends are well educated professionals here in the US. You would find that they have a lot of things other than superficial stuff to talk about. But there are a couple of character trait differences that I noticed. Americans in general are more standoffish and tend to keep an invisible wall between themselves and their friends/acquaintances. There are well defined guidelines what you can/can not talk about or do. Russians tend to have fewer restrictions on that.

It's funny you mention that. I recently had a conversation with a RW about friends. She asked if I have a lot of friends. I amswered with "yes I have a lot of friends, some good friends and a few close friends". She could not grasp that concept. I explained to her that each is on different levels of conversation and trust. She couldn't grasp that either. She has her family and a handful of friends. To her family and friends can be trusted to the umpth degree. There is no inbetween. That makes sense and I understand it but, I still found it a bit humorous.

[I/O]

When asked, she is not saying much, but from my observations she is missing, inedible bread, her mum, her easy-to-get-along-with Aussie fiance' and obviously the confidence of extensive local knowledge.

I/O

[AnastassiaAsh]

Well, my mom is here, 15 min away from me, so that is a blessing that covers all and everything.  I absolutely can't imagine what it's like to have your mother permanently in Russia. We were thinking to do this together from the very beginning, and probably wouldn't have done it otherwise. If my mom initially hadn't been divorced nothing would have happened. This was a 'blessing in disguise' so to speak. 

[WmGO]

Good thread.

In regards to the comments about educational systems
at the primary level, IMO the main differences we see between
R and U and the U.S. have much less to do with one *system*
being better than the other and more to do with cultural mentalities about
education. Let me elaborate:

In the U.S., IMO, we have seen the decline of culture manifest itself in
numerous ways. One of these ways is the *attitude* and *mentality* towards
education and learning. Simply put, in Russia and Ukraine, there is a better  mentality and attitude towards learning and education than in the
United States, especially with respect to public schools. In the FSU, students are more serious and orderly and respectful.

In the U.S. beginning in the late 1950s and continuing forward, the cultural mentality has become that school (especially middle and high school) is about having fun, entertainment, socializing and being "cool". Hence, seriousness about learning, appropriate classroom behaviour, appropriate respect for the teacher and administrators and appropriate dress have declined and diminished. This is the reason for the rise of the private schools in America - where parents hope for their children to escape the decline of the public schools. Of course, the quality of the public schools varies wildly from place to place and they are obviously  worse in the inner cities and certain regions of the country, and there are some great public schools throughout the country.

But, when it comes to k-12, FSU is better and is more like America used to be
before cultural revolutions began in the 1960s, because of the attitude and mentality of the students (and their parents), and not so much because of the quality of the physical buildings or the teachers or the curricula.

Bottom line: a motivated student can learn algebra in a barn.