When is it OK to ask a RW to change her religion for you

[SANDRO43]

It is funny how zealously unbelievers start shouting Jesus' name and praying to Him when for example it seems their airplane starts going down or there is lots of nasty turbulence.

Never done that. The only time I felt rather nervous was back in 1984, when the Singapore Airlines Boeing 747 I was on made its 4th missed approach to Male airport in the Maldives (then featuring a stranded ship wreck about half-a-mile beyond the end of the runway) during a tropical stom with strong crosswinds. The pilot would line up the plane for landing, then on final it would be pushed sideways by the shifting winds, up would the landing gear and flaps come, full throttle and around for another try. We finally landed on the 5th attempt.

Probably being agnostic (and a Sunday pilot at the time) caused me not to think about powers higher than those from the engines, and of concentration on the job from the pilot .

[Sort]

Lets not get too much in debating religion, no matter which standpoint you have on it.
True religion is in your heart and not in any scripture or place.

If you find comfort in sharing your religion with those of similar beliefs, that will only be a good thing.

And Sort, Atheism is a religion as 0 is a number. 

True words m8.
And i do restect people for there believe and i do NOT look down on anyone.

[Blues Fairy]

And Sort, Atheism is a religion

That's absolutely incorrect!  Atheism means disbelief in any gods, which goes contrary to the very definition of a religion and lacks its most important aspect - worship. 

[Faux Pas]

That's absolutely incorrect!  Atheism means disbelief in any gods, which goes contrary to the very definition of a religion and lacks its most important aspect - worship. 

Not to split hairs with you Blues Fairy but, the disbelief in any gods or religion is actually a belief that none exist. This making an atheism belief. Thus it could also be considered a religion. A true oxymoron.

[Sort]

That's absolutely incorrect!  Atheism means disbelief in any gods, which goes contrary to the very definition of a religion and lacks its most important aspect - worship. 

And if i don't need to "worship" any that is suppose to start all life???
Look at the facts......We come from the monkeys....

[Simoni]

Can we NOT debate God here?

Wars have been fought over religion.

We won't solve the issue here, so why fight?

[Blues Fairy]

Not to split hairs with you Blues Fairy but, the disbelief in any gods or religion is actually a belief that none exist. This making an atheism belief. Thus it could also be considered a religion. A true oxymoron.

No oxymoron here!
Religion is a belief in Deity/God/Supreme Being + worship. Atheism is not.
I may believe that we are not alone in the Universe - would it be a religion?
Besides, my belief in extraterrestial brothers is open to any incoming contrary evidence.  A religion is never open to any contrary evidence.

Read up:
http://atheism.about.com/od/aboutatheism/p/AtheismReligion.htm
http://www.abarnett.demon.co.uk/atheism/atheismreligion.html

[WmGO]

Hey Sort, your signature line actually has much more meaning than your words above.  It is funny how zealously unbelievers start shouting Jesus' name and praying to Him when for example it seems their airplane starts going down or there is lots of nasty turbulence.   

 

[Shadow]

Blues Fairy, you quoted only half of my word so I guess that I will need to explain it for you.

In mathematics there are numbers. If you go back in time, you will find that for a long time the number 0 did not exist. The Arabs invented it, and it gave a large progress in to making complex calculations.
Numbers can be negative or positive, and you can divide a number by any other nomber.
However 0, is not a number, it is 'nothing'.

If you see religion as the presence of one, or multiple, gods it can be compared to numbers.
Atheism (not agnostic) is the belief in absence of a god, and can there for be compared to 0.

You will find that atheists can debate as strongly over their belief of absence of god as believers will on the presence.
The belief in absence is similar to a belief in a god, as neither will be able to prove their point in a scientific way before death.

The difference between being atheist and being agnostic is that an atheist is convinced of his stance that there is no god, where as an agnostic realises that he just does not know if there is or there is not.

I hope the has contributed to understand my comparison.

[WmGO]

?
I don't know or care about the religion you have or anyone else.
I do not look and ask what kind of religion someone have, every one is totaly free to have any religion as long as they respect that there are people that don't share there opinion.

Well then you never should have butted into this thread.

 

************************

Best response so far to the *exact* questions raised by
Eduard: from goforit.



 

[SANDRO43]

Can we NOT debate God here?

No, as a matter of simple courtesy and fairness: He's not an RWD member, and cannot participate in the debate .

[WmGO]

......We come from the monkeys....

You are what you believe. 

[Blues Fairy]

If you see religion as the presence of one, or multiple, gods it can be compared to numbers.  Atheism (not agnostic) is the belief in absence of a god, and can there for be compared to 0.

The belief in absence is similar to a belief in a god, as neither will be able to prove their point in a scientific way before death.

Shadow, you make two logical mistakes.
1. Disbelief in God = Belief in the absense of God.
2. Any belief = religion.

Both are incorrect.  Absence of positive belief is NOT a positive belief, it's simply absence of belief.  Absence of +1 would be NO numbers, and not 0, -1, or any other number (please be careful with mathematical analogies!

Moreover, as I have shown above, not any belief (or disbelief) can be called a religion, for that matter.  I do not believe in the existence of fairies.  Do I belong to a No-Fairies religion?

[SANDRO43]

I do not believe in the existence of fairies. Do I belong to a No-Fairies religion?

Yet you call yourself a Blues one . You sound more Fairy-agnostic than Fairy-atheist .

[Shadow]

Shadow, you make two logical mistakes.
1. Disbelief in God = Belief in the absense of God.
2. Any belief = religion.

Both are incorrect.  Absence of positive belief is NOT a positive belief, it's simply absence of belief.  Absence of +1 would be NO numbers, and not 0, -1, or any other number (please be careful with mathematical analogies!

Moreover, as I have shown above, not any belief (or disbelief) can be called a religion, for that matter.  I do not believe in the existence of fairies.  Do I belong to a No-Fairies religion?

If I believe in Zeus instead of God, does that make me an atheist ?
0 is actually absence of number, just like black is absence of colour. For every defined presence there is a defined absence.
For the purpose of discussion I make no difference between religions.

[Blues Fairy]

Yet you call yourself a Blues one . You sound more Fairy-agnostic than Fairy-atheist .

Agnostic is someone who is not sure, right?  Based on the available evidence, I'm pretty sure - which makes me an atheist.  However, if new convincing evidence comes up, I'll be open to considering it.  

If I believe in Zeus instead of God, does that make me an atheist?  0 is actually absence of number, just like black is absence of colour. For every defined presence there is a defined absence.  For the purpose of discussion I make no difference between religions.

Shadow, believing in Zeus would make you a (poly)theist, a believer in Zeus (and the rest of the pantheon I assume).  NOT an atheist.

So what's 0 again, a number or an absence of number?  Better decide soon, if you are going to stick to your mathematical analogy.  If number = religion, and atheism = 0, then 0 better be number, right? 

[SANDRO43]

So what's 0 again, a number or an absence of number?

While mathematicians accept zero as a number, some non-mathematicians would say that zero is not a number, arguing that one cannot have zero of something (for example, 'zero oranges'). Others hold that if one has a bank balance of zero, one has a specific quantity of money in that account, namely none

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/0_(number)

The article also has an interesting etymological note:

The word "zero" came via French zéro from Venetian language 'zero', which (together with "cipher") came via Italian 'zefiro' from Arabic صفر, şafira = "it was empty", şifr = "zero", "nothing", which was used to translate Sanskrit śūnya, meaning void or empty. Italian zefiro already meant "west wind" from Latin and Greek zephyrus; this may have influenced the spelling when transcribing Arabic şifr.

So zero is actually a breeze .

[Sort]

No, as a matter of simple courtesy and fairness: He's not an RWD member, and cannot participate in the debate .

ROFL..

BULLSEYE

[Shadow]

Zero is on the division between positive and negative, and itself is not a number but the complete absence of numerical value, by  which the presence of numbers can be measured.
Atheism is the complete absence of belief in gods, and can there for be compared or zero as religion to number.

Monoheism is belief in one god, polytheism is belief in more than one god. Atheism is belief in absence of god.
One is single, two is plural, zero is none.

[Sort]

Atheism is the complete absence of belief in gods

YEP....

[SANDRO43]

One is single, two is plural, zero is none.

Not in all languages, e.g. in Greek and Arabic 2 is dual, and 3 is plural .

[myrddin]

Hey! Simoni has reverted to his old Avatar (apparently designed to make me miss Florida ) and Sort's changed his interesting if somewhat disturbing image.  Is there some sort of movement afoot?      

[SANDRO43]

Is there some sort of movement afoot?

ZERO (whatever that means ).

[Blues Fairy]

Zero is on the division between positive and negative, and itself is not a number but the complete absence of numerical value, by  which the presence of numbers can be measured.
Atheism is the complete absence of belief in gods, and can there for be compared or zero as religion to number.

Monoheism is belief in one god, polytheism is belief in more than one god. Atheism is belief in absence of god.
One is single, two is plural, zero is none.

Evil is black,  Good is white, and Shadow is the absence of Light.  
I'm glad you have it all figured out!  To summarize your excellent points:

0 is not a number.
Religion is a number.  
Atheism is like 0.  
Therefore, atheism is not religion.

Bravo!  

[Sort]

Hey! Simoni has reverted to his old Avatar (apparently designed to make me miss Florida ) and Sort's changed his interesting if somewhat disturbing image.  Is there some sort of movement afoot?     

Hahahaha
Anastassia made me change the avatar here and on Skype.....LOL
And beside i am in a much better mood now then i was when i choosed to have the other one.