Here's my story. Opinions?

[catzenmouse]

I absolutely LOVE western Ukraine - so does my wife, who is from Kremenchug (east of the Dnieper). Karpaty makes a wonderful excursion, and Lviv is gorgeous. Speaking of Lviv, check out Bill and Helen's site at www.LvivBrides.com. They are one of very few agencies doing business in that part of the country, and while they are a very small agency, their reputation seems excellent.

Welcome Catman! Nice to see another furball around here... 

If you do decide to check out Lviv I know Bill personally and can vouch for his character. I was already married (or preparing to get married) when he and Hellen opened the agency so I have not used the services they offer but I would not hesitate (If I was single) to use them and I don't hesitate to recommend them to others heading to Ukraine. Simply put, they are Good People.

Sorry to see the tough lesson but like they say (who is this "they" that we always hear about?) "If it doesn't kill you it makes you stronger." Use the lessons learned, take your time, and keep on keepin' on.

Ken

[Misha]

The Ukrainians where I am from originated from the west of Ukraine, probably most from Galacia, and most come here early 1900's when the Polish and Ukrainian border was shifting back and forth. It's rare to see Western Ukrainian women on the agency sites. Is life a little better there?

I would certainly recommend traveling to the region as a tourist. If you know some Ukrainian, you will be able to travel to cities that other Westerners generally avoid. Visit museums, visit universities, go to the theater, attend other cultural activities as you explore your roots. Find a long lost relative. Do anything to meet local people in a more "natural" environment. Take the train and meet even more locals. The nice thing is that I believe Canadians can now travel to Ukraine without a visa so you can take a last minute trip and not worry about filling out visa forms and getting invitations for the visa.

Once you find a city that you like to visit in Ukraine, I would also look into free local Ukrainian online dating sites. I used singles.ru and I checked to see whether it has a lot of women from Western Ukraine. It does feature thousands of women from the Lviv region. There are possibly some Ukrainian specific free online dating sites. Given that I knew Russian, it was easy for me to use the free Russian sites to meet a woman who was not listed in any agency. If you know Ukrainian, you also have this option in Ukraine.   

[KenC]

Catman,
I'm going to be real square with you here.  Finding, romancing and marrying a woman from the fsu is a difficult task.  It has been said many times here that this process is not for entry level daters.  That is very true.  It is also true that the sharks in the fsu waters eat nice guys for lunch.  Sometimes it is like leading sheep to slaughter, if you get the idea.  That is where Fashionista and others are coming from.  (Myself included)  The advice may seem harsh, and I certainly do not want to piss on your cornflakes and blow away your dreams here.

That being said, you have come to the right place to learn how to do this thing.  There are more successfully married couples here with a wide spectrum of experiences from which to advise you than any other place on the Net.  If you can listen and learn, there is hope.  The guys and gals of RWD will almost give you the shirts off their backs in order to help you.  But I warn you that some of the advice may seem harsh, but such is life, not all lessons learned are pleasant.

My suggestion is to read as much as possible here and then pose your questions.  Pay attention to who the members here are in regard to their experience and their history of success (or failure). Some try to be encouraging no matter how foolish the proposed action may be while others are more than willing to smack you upside the head with the cluebat.   In both cases, we are here to help you be successful.  You have a lot going for you too.  Your Ukrainian roots can only be helpful as is your flexible schedule.  For now, be a sponge and soak up as much knowledge as you possibly can.  There is a wealth of information here for you.  Best of luck.
KenC

[Turboguy]

Catman the advice you got from some guys to stay home is probably taking it a bit too far.

I agree with Shadow.  I have not seen any indication that you are unable to make the grade as a potential mate in this search.  The thing I have seen in the posts here are that you are uninformed about the potential problems you can run into and what to look for and spending hours and hours and hours reading RWD can fix that.  If you have some self confidence problems persuing RW can go a long way to fixing that.

I was at this search a lot longer than most and the biggest part was because I was about as smart as you were in the search.   As a result, I used some of the wrong methods to meet women and did not know what to look for.  I never thought of it as being used and abused but I think what happened was a lot of the same situation you ran into.  I actually gave up on my search for a year and a half because the women I seemed to meet were more interested in what they could get out of my wallet than in me.  After a year and a half layoff I was contacted by one of the ladies I had hoped to meet in Russia but was unable to work out the logistics.  She had married a guy from S.F. and they were separated and she contacted me.  That did not work out but I saw she was everything I hoped to find in a woman and felt if she was real there must be more and I tried again.   At that point I had developed some street smarts and was quicker to discover what a woman's real interests were but once I found RWD I understood far more than I could have learned in a few lifetimes of just using street smarts.  There are some very smart people on RWD and you can tap lifetimes of ideas and learning experiences here.   Kuna is a good example of someone who started out with knowledge and from the answers he got to his questions on RWD and found success quickly and easily.  Read his early threads and you will see some real insight into how to go about this. 

I don't think it is all about rescuing some poor damsel from a horrid life so even though western Ukraine my be economically better than some areas there are still good women there who would like a good husband.   I have been to Ukraine dozens of times but never to that part.  I have heard good comments about Lviv Brides and I hear the city is beautiful.  That might be a good starting point when you are ready for another trip. 

Your business with the Cat's sounds like a good business.  If you happen to be going out to Vegas for ConExpo (which is the largest construction show in America) and Cat has a humongous display look me up.  I am displaying at the show.

[myrddin]

Sorry to see the tough lesson but like they say (who is this "they" that we always hear about?) "If it doesn't kill you it makes you stronger." Use the lessons learned, take your time, and keep on keepin' on.

Ken

That one was actually Friedrich Nietzsche.  I doubt he's often the "they" in "they say"   

I am also at the beginning of this journey but in a few weeks I've learned invaluable lessons here.  There are a lot of people here willing to spend time and effort to help you - listen to them!  Read as much as you can, especially the Trip Reports.  One thing I learned quickly is that the pursuit is not easy: if you can't take some straightforward (or even harsh) advice, you can't handle a RW. 

Another thing I learned is: it's worth it.

[Serebro]

I live in small town Canada, raised Ukrainian, first language spoken was Ukrainian, been used and abused by the women here. I've always wanted to go to Ukraine to find a wife

Catman, what do you mean by "here"?!
you were abused by women in Canada?!
From your story it looks like you have been abused by women from Ukraine, too...
maybe you should try to look for the reason in yourself?!

[Catman]

Thanks everyone, a lot of helpful people on this site. Sure wish I found this site a lot earlier but I will be smarter and stronger the next time I go to Ukraine. Living outside of the city, there is really nothing for women to choose from. A friend of mine found a nice girl in the city but it didn't last as he figured she could not live without a convenience store around the corner. After a year of dating a girl here we got engaged and agreed that there was so much to do that we would wait until the next summer. I met a friend and he said he could not wait to go to my social the next month. I couldn't believe it. My girlfriend and her mother booked everything to get married right away without asking me. After we broke up I found out a lot of my stuff was missing. Found another girl, everything was great. After a year I helped buy her a car. Pretty much hardly seen her after that. Didn't come home at night, heavy drinking and fooling around with a lot of guys. I asked her if she could take time out from her fun to help me clean the house. She told me to hire a maid. After she cheated on me at Christmas I had enough and swear to myself that I will either find a girl from another country or stay single. My hair went grey twice but the color come back and I don't want to try that again. Sure there are two sides to every story but I try my best and am probably just too easy going but like I said the pickins are slim here.
I have a very good friend in Kiev that runs a tour company called SoloEastTravel. Sergei and Laurie Ivanchuk. They have a beautiful home and run a bed and breakfast. Laurie is from my home town. They have a website you can go to if interested www.tourkiev.com and Sergei knows his stuff. I stayed there overnight on my first visit to Ukraine. They also have a friend of theirs who runs a tour company out of Lviv.
I will definetely check out Lviv the next time.
Yes I can take critisism as I see I need it!

[evaljean]

Catman, I have been reading your story with interest as you and I are about the same age. Hmmmmmm.......

Let me give you a secret that many men never realize.

Are you listening?  Come closer.

Here it is.

If a woman really wants to be with you, you don't have to give her money, clothes, trips, vacations in order for her to get to know you.  You can buy her a Big Mac at McDonalds and she will still be happy to spend time with you.

There are so many thousands of women in Ukraine, Russia, Moldava, Belarus.  Way too many for you to get played like a sucker. 

You seem like a nice guy..., perhaps too nice.  But at the age of 40 (I'm 40 in June) you are much too old to be naive.

Go to a site like Elenasmodels.com and do a search.  There are plenty of women who would probably suit what you are looking for but be realistic as well.

Good luck!

Cheeers,

Eric

[I/O]

I certainly do not want to piss on your cornflakes and blow away your dreams here. KenC

The man has already had his "Cornflakes Pissed On" and his "Dreams Blown Away" by whatever the beotchs name was. The question he needs to face is whether of not he has the character to "Not Dream" and withstand the wiles of some of the natives in his target countries. They are many and varied.

I/O

[DKMM]

Catman,

I suggest you find a female friend over there first.  My Russian friends (2 girls) have provided me with far more insight, advice, and general knowledge than even my engagement to a Russian ever did.  Look for a friend and don't worry about much beyond that because you have some learning to do. 

[smartcat]

One more important thing to consider, Catman.
You said you are living in the countryside and even local women don't find it's exciting to move, right?
Canada in general is much less habitated (in density of population).
Can you tell what's a size of your settlement and how long it takes to drive to a closest city? How big a city is?
How do you see your life with her in? Should she work?
Are you ready that she might not be able to drive, to speak good English?

[Fashionista]

Oh, man, you soudn't go to Ukraine, you should go to Judge Judy.

[Catman]

There are several towns with a population of several thousand 15 minutes away and the city of 500 000 or more 1 hour away, another small city 45 min away so I'm not isolated. I also live close to Lake Winnipeg where there are miles of beaches and many parks. Beautiful nature. Okay winter can be a little cool but that's time for heating each other up I didn't have the intention of winning over a girl with gifts and money. She asked me first if I could buy her a pair of winter boots as winter is coming and her shoes were poor. One thing led to another and really for me the gifts were cheap. Yes, at first. She wore nice but poorer clothes a few times over, said she had no heat in her apartment, and so on. Maybe I got sucked in easily but the next time I will be more careful. With her cute little daughter looking at you and the story you will be fed you would really have to have a heart of stone not to feel something. I, unfortunately have somewhat of a soft heart. That's heart, not head! Okay maybe little bit soft head too sometimes I guess if I'm a nice guy I will have to finish last?

[myrddin]

I, unfortunately have somewhat of a soft heart. That's heart, not head! Okay maybe little bit soft head too sometimes I guess if I'm a nice guy I will have to finish last?

I just have to say I once (years ago) used that pretty much as an excuse.  It's simply not true - how many of your married friends are jerks, or married to jerks? 

And there are a number of (mostly ) nice guys here, married or committed to spectacular women, sharing their knowledge and experience for nothing more than good karma   

[Admin]

There are several towns with a population of several thousand 15 minutes away and the city of 500 000 or more 1 hour away, another small city 45 min away so I'm not isolated. I also live close to Lake Winnipeg where there are miles of beaches and many parks. Beautiful nature. Okay winter can be a little cool but that's time for heating each other up I didn't have the intention of winning over a girl with gifts and money. She asked me first if I could buy her a pair of winter boots as winter is coming and her shoes were poor. One thing led to another and really for me the gifts were cheap. Yes, at first. She wore nice but poorer clothes a few times over, said she had no heat in her apartment, and so on. Maybe I got sucked in easily but the next time I will be more careful. With her cute little daughter looking at you and the story you will be fed you would really have to have a heart of stone not to feel something. I, unfortunately have somewhat of a soft heart. That's heart, not head! Okay maybe little bit soft head too sometimes I guess if I'm a nice guy I will have to finish last?

Nope - you do not have to feel it unfortunate to have a "soft heart" - nor do you need to ponder the notion of finishing last.

I, like most here at RWD, are hesitant to blindly encourage someone on this path - as it, quite simply, is not for the faint-hearted. At the same time, you have received sufficient material in this topic to provide you with all the rationale and improved insight to make your NEXT trip (should you decide to make one), a raging success.

"Success" in these terms does NOT presuppose you will find "the one" - or anything like that - but "success" it will be if you set your expectations correctly, make a plan, follow the plan, and be courageous enough to deviate when appropriate.

- Dan

[krimster]

Catman,

There are some rules you need to know about.

If a woman lies to you, she's not for you, so say goodbye!
If after you fly thousands of miles to be with her, and she leaves you to be with her friend, she's not for you, so say goodbye!
If she's constantly begging you to buy her gifts, she's not for you, so say goodbye!
If after you've spent some time together and you've not shared any intimacy, she's not for you, so say goodbye!

There's no shame in this, and I wouldn't let it stop me, at least you're not laboring under any delusions now.
There is the very REAL possibility that the next one will be the one you're looking for, if she's not the one, better get over it
sooner than later.

Methodologies

All depends on you, your resources and determination.
If you can swing it, I'd recommend going over there and staying a few months in the summer.
You'll meet LOTS of women, and you can chase one until she catches you.

Be kind, considerate, dress smartly, learn a little Russian first, you could easily start conversations with 4-5 women you see each day,
"pardon me could you tell me where the ????? is, and so forth", almost every one of them would accept a lunch invitation, take it from there...

You see, it's not so bad...

[Misha]

I would also go to the University of Manitoba and get some advice on some partnerships they have in Ukraine. On the University of Manitoba site, they have info on summer courses in Kyiv (see http://umanitoba.ca/faculties/arts/departments/german_and_slavic/abroad/summer_kyiv.html). They also have a Centre for Ukrainian Canadian Studies (see http://www.umanitoba.ca/centres/ukrainian_canadian/). If you tell them that you are a Ukrainian Canadian and want to connect with your roots and study your language in Ukraine, I am sure they will be happy to help you find a school in Ukraine and they may have some contacts.

[TwoBitBandit]

There are some rules you need to know about.

If a woman lies to you, she's not for you, so say goodbye!
If after you fly thousands of miles to be with her, and she leaves you to be with her friend, she's not for you, so say goodbye!
If she's constantly begging you to buy her gifts, she's not for you, so say goodbye!
If after you've spent some time together and you've not shared any intimacy, she's not for you, so say goodbye!

Now that's some damn good advice.  You gotta trust your intuition.  As soon as you know that this isn't the right girl, fold 'em and go find another.  Ya gotta know when to fold 'em!

[Catman]

A lot of great advice! I thought I was prepared before I went but now see I knew nothing compared to now.

[smartcat]

Catman, your life in some isolated place could be quite important issue too.
You could find a really nice woman, who might still have troubles to live out the city. So you must to pay attention does she realizes it or not.

I read somewhere, that moving to another country gives a person the same level of stress as if somebody from the family has passed away. Also psychologists say, that a person need socializing and learning new society as much as she/he wants to feel comfortable in new place.

If your lady does not know English well - can you find English classes for her in the city 15 min away? Or should you drive her to Winnipeg and back every time?
Where she can get her driving license?
Does she like going out to clubs, disco and restaurants? If yes, you should keep it in mind too... Does she eager to work? What kind of job she could take in the closest villages?

I think you should ask (still not directly) the lady, would she be able to live on the farm (IN UKRAINE) with a person she loves. Let say, the farm is conditioned, with sattelite TV and she is not obliged to milk cows. But it's still out of a big city.

[Serebro]

Catman,

There are some rules you need to know about.

If a woman lies to you, she's not for you, so say goodbye!
If after you fly thousands of miles to be with her, and she leaves you to be with her friend, she's not for you, so say goodbye!
If she's constantly begging you to buy her gifts, she's not for you, so say goodbye!
If after you've spent some time together and you've not shared any intimacy, she's not for you, so say goodbye!

what is "some time"?!

[I/O]

I think this whole international marriage thing is best suited to Urban dwellers on both sides of the ledger.

I/O

[Misha]

Catman, your life in some isolated place could be quite important issue too.

I think you should ask (still not directly) the lady, would she be able to live on the farm (IN UKRAINE) with a person she loves. Let say, the farm is conditioned, with sattelite TV and she is not obliged to milk cows. But it's still out of a big city.

Based on Catman's definition, it is hardly isolated. I wished I lived an hour's drive away from Winnipeg. Canadian "villages" also cannot be compared to those in the FSU. For one thing, Canada has immigrants across the country and even small cities will have government funded ESL classes for new immigrants arriving: my wife is studying for free in our small city, and her classes are excellent. Also, even a small city of a few thousand people in Canada will often have better stores (especially when it comes to grocery stores) than mid-sized cities of several hundred thousand people in the FSU.

The only question is whether Catman will be willing to get her a vehicle of her own. If he is, she will be fully capable of traveling on her own when she gets her driver's license. Yes, he may run across many women who won't want to live in a village, but that will be their loss. It will be question of explaining what life is like in Canada, and finding a woman who is looking for a good husband and a man that she can love. 

[Misha]

I think this whole international marriage thing is best suited to Urban dwellers on both sides of the ledger.

I/O

Based on what? One of my good Russian friends that I have known for 10+ years married a man who lived on a farm. For the first couple of years, she was living on a farm 40 or so km from the nearest hamlet (i.e. community of 300 people). She is now living in that hamlet and working in a village (1,000 or so people) that is 40km away as a dentist. She has been married to her husband for 12 years. Was it successful? Well, in spite of complaining about him, she is still married to her husband and has achieved her main goals. She has two beautiful kids, and doesn't want to return to Russia. She could easily go work in Moscow, but she prefers to live in her small village in Canada.

[krimster]

Serebro,
   I don't think there should be a precise "rule" in this regard.  Besides sometimes anticipating intimacy can in itself
be enjoyable.  My experience with FSU women in their 20's was that they were in no way inhibited in this regard. 
Quite the opposite!  One quite enjoyable way to start off physical intimacy is to share a bania together.  There is
a delicate "dance" that goes on when a man and woman first encounter each other, one must pay attention to how one's partner "moves".
You don't want to jump ahead or fall behind, but instead be "in tune" with one another.  However, if you find that you are dancing by yourself
or your partner is following a different "tune", then give a nice bow and smile and a wave as you depart and ask someone else for the next song.