Black guy heading to Ukraine

[Jumper]

weird thread.

TW- you asked a sincere question on what the GENERAL attitiude of RW would be to
a black man visiting Ukraine.
and you are mulatto?and yes i'll be quite un-PC like most RW are,
and tell you that does make a difference to *many*, and since it doers, it would improve your chances.
its silly this thread debates the exceptions,
regardless how many exceptions exist, the more RW that are genuinely intersted  in you the more chances of success.

you did not ask *if* you could find exceptions to a  generral attitude
(of course you can)

you just asked what that general attitrude or mentality is .

repeatedly folks with real experience have related to you that the menatlity  "generally"
is like the US in the 40's 50's ,most likely in the US's deep sooth.
(maybe 60's)

Like major US cities did back in the 50's ,
current Kiev and larger more cosmopolitan FSU cities will have  MORE execptions to the general "50's "attitude.


in kiev you may not notice much..
in provincial citries in Ukraine you'll find a pretty backwards and very "dated" attitude in general regarding race.
I hope we are not "bad" people for telling you that.

This not to intentionally disuade you, or comment on your endeaor,
 or your taste in women in anyway!!!

it is simply to inform you of what youll likely encounter.
so you can prepare accordingly.
it is what you asked for afterall?
and i find it incredbly odd those that have lived there,or have a bit odf real experience with that  culture  and tell you how it actually is,
   are being beat down for giving you the information you requested.

that's bizarre really.

mspanky-
you bring up the perceived discrmination of RW towards large age gaps , or overweight ,balding men ,
 as a similar scenerio.

 i completely agree! and do not understand your point?

if an overweight balding, older man came her and asked
specifically about the the general attitude of young RW towards such a man
*romatically*
he would get very similar advice?
especially from the RW.

That, in *general*,(since that is what he asked)
MANY young RW would not be interested in him seriuosly, but that he could find exceptions.his odds would be longer.
he would need to be even more careful in evaluating his romantic interests true feelings.

and noone would be jumping on people for giving him that sound advice?

 
TW- I wish you good luck..
(and yes , in wacky human relations any of us would need it)
If you are a reasonably handsome succesful man, these small hurdles are not going to dissuade you from traveling there.
you have a friend on the ground there, so should have a great time visiting an interesting place.You seem to have guarded expecatations,and with all that going for you (i liked the caddyshack quote)
are pretty far ahead of a lot of the knuckleheads that travel there.  

you did ask a specific question.
you got more answers than you planned for most likely..lol
but do realize that it IS a different culture,
and wjhile  there are similarities,there are  also  differences.
general attitudes on race is one of those areas.

(my wife is from a major Ukranian city, and had only seen a handful of black perope in her entire life before relocating to the US.She is very open minded, but that is not typical of her peers, most are very racist by US standards.)





bob said

Here are the facts:
1)   We are proposing to meet women from a foreign land with a foreign culture and language (for the most part) on the internet
2)   These women are from countries with substantially lower per capita GDPs than our own
3)   These women have far fewer financial resources than ourselves
4)   We propose to only have a relative paucity of face to face meetings before applying for a fiancé visa
5)   We are going to personally finance and shepherd these ladies through the US Customs and Immigration system, because without our help and signature they couldn’t do it themselves.
6)   We are doing all this while eschewing marrying women in our own country with more similar salaries, languages, culture and equal protection under US law.

These are facts. It’s amazing to me when some FSU woman says something that would be considered inappropriate in normal US society

LOL Bob!
you do a boat load of internet 'cephrin' and come up with all those hard facts.

Did it occur to you that despite finding it on the internet,,
your facts do not fit many here?
so are not really um all that "factual"

but wow! it *might* be a decent generality
(isnt that what you are taking exception to in the first place?..ohh the irony ..lol)

Did it cross your mind that when a RW gives her view on *general* RW mentality,
 and it would be considered inappropriate in "normal US society"
that regardless it just might be accurate?

in fact ,,because it is a completely different culture..
that it just might, just maybe,, just a slim possibilty,  reflect many RW's mentality?
and not fit into your very US based perceptions?

The fact remains you do not know a thing about FSU culture.
The fact remains it is more racist than the US.

you cant find any statistics proving a black man has less chance of success.
thats not surprising.considering you cant find any statistics on him having a better chance either can you?  

To use things you can not find , as evidence to support your thoughts on a culture you know nothing firsthand about , is odd.

When TW is comtemplating going to a completely different culture to look for
a seriously  marriage minded woman,he would need to consider if that culture was less
open in "general" to interacial marriages.

will it matter if he ultimately meets someone that doesnt care?
of course not!

should he be informed that in the particular culture he is asking about,,
 his odds would likely be less simply because it isnt  as open to such couples?

I would think he would want that info? since he asked.

what a silly debate.






 

[BC]

AJ, Sandro,

Thanks for the chuckles. Seriosity was killing the kat.

One thing's for sure, the only expert on this subject around here is going to be TW when he returns and I bet there ain't one soul on this board that can dispute that!

[Bob Smith]

To the original poster, although very odd that a black man
would want to venture into the FSU to pursue white women
(decent honorable educated and solid middle class black men
can have the pick of the litter of black women in America),
the truth has been told that the vast majority of FSU people
have racial attitudes towards black people similar to the attitudes
of white people in the Old South - like 50 years ago and going
back in time.

Hence, your odds are even more diminished than the small odds
that the white WM has in succesfully finding and marrying an
FSUW. Just proceed with this in mind. That's all.
 

Although I must say that Barack, about a month in, asked me out. And I thought no way, this is completely tacky. … It took about a month or so for him to talk me into going out on a first date.   -Michelle Obama

This is the type of work Barack Obama arugula eating, president of the Harvard Law Review had to do to get a first date.  His wife recalled thinking the notion of even going out with him was TACKY and predictable, because they were the only two black people at their law firm...  Gee why don't you go out with this guy!  He's black too... nudge, nudge... wink, wink.  Sound like any people you know?  Black folks aren't dumb.  They know what people are thinking.

Most educated decent looking women of ANY ETHNICITY/NATIONALITY have at least a modicum of self respect.  Pardon my French but I don't know anyone that's getting laid with impunity other than billionaires, movie stars and sports superstars.  The rest of us have to prove ourselves to every decent self respecting woman just like all other mere mortals.  Like I've said before Black and White folks in America are not as different as Louis Farrakhan and Rush Limbaugh would have you believe.

[tim 360]

Geezzz Bob,  can you give it a rest.     Pointless posts.

Have a decaf latte. 

[mspanky]

weird thread.

TW- you asked a sincere question on what the GENERAL attitiude of RW would be to
a black man visiting Ukraine.
and you are mulatto?and yes i'll be quite un-PC like most RW are,



mspanky-
you bring up the perceived discrmination of RW towards large age gaps , or overweight ,balding men ,
 as a similar scenerio.

 i completely agree! and do not understand your point?


if an overweight balding, older man came her and asked
specifically about the the general attitude of young RW towards such a man
*romatically*
he would get very similar advice?


MSPANKY:
   I don't see he would get similar advice. From the agencies to board members the advice is rarely to aim at your league. Advice is usually that you can get a much younger and hotter girl than you can in the U.S. no matter your age or looks.

  My point is no one will say anything to a man who fits the description of an unattractive man. In. If you look at other boards and pics of men who want young hotties you'll understand.  Hell, just look at the guys who are traveling or look at agency socials.  Most of these guys could not get a date in their home town with anybody. Yet noone says if you're gonna go to Russia you may have a tough time attracting who you want because there are prejudice against men with your your looks or age. Well, the only one I've seen admit to that is Ana Ash who at least I give credit to. But then a guy only needs 1 person to find him attractive in order to succeed.
especially from the RW.



 


in fact ,,because it is a completely different culture..
that it just might, just maybe,, just a slim possibilty,  reflect many RW's mentality?
and not fit into your very US based perceptions?

The fact remains you do not know a thing about FSU culture.
The fact remains it is more racist than the US.

MSPANKY:
   In the 50's,60's and 70's there was a lot of racism going on. Especially in the South. Yet there were still women who would risk all to be with a man no matter what color. Obams's mother being a prime example. Not only was the man black, but in the 60's she chose to marry a man who is ultra dark and 100% black. This was a college student. So though society may not approve, there will always be people with preferences other than what is the norm.
.

When TW is comtemplating going to a completely different culture to look for
a seriously  marriage minded woman,he would need to consider if that culture was less
open in "general" to interacial marriages.

will it matter if he ultimately meets someone that doesnt care?
of course not!

should he be informed that in the particular culture he is asking about,,
 his odds would likely be less simply because it isnt  as open to such couples?

I would think he would want that info? since he asked.

what a silly debate.






 

  MS SPANKY> Good post!

[coda]

This is my first post here although I registered a while ago and have been lurking ever since. 

This thread is growing long, and certain statements were repeated more than once.  I will however make an effort and offer a slightly different perspective on the issue since I've been born and raised in USSR/Russia and moved to the West as a grown man.  I can therefore be fully described by a neat acronym RM and be probably considered as someone sufficiently knowledgeable of Russian culture.

I am not so sure if Russians are more racist/sexist/etc than westerners, they just do not know (or trained) when to shut up.  At least that is my impression.  As far as relationships go, I would not even consider dating a RW who makes derogatory remarks towards other ethnic groups/Jews/blacks (or dentists for that matter).  I would drop her like a hot potato, because that fact alone speaks volumes about her cultural and intellectual level.  Try and call me PC, I'll have a good laugh.

I know that my sister is attracted to black people and she would not have a problem going out with one, if she were not married already.

TW, like many people already said, just go and see for yourself.  Growing a little skin will help you feel more comfortable.  I'll risk stating that even if your search will be more difficult than for a white person, you might just end up with a better person.  I wish you all the best and encourage you to go.

[KenC]

Coda,
Welcome to RWD and thank you for your input on this topic.  Please introduce yourself in the introduction section so we can get to know you better.
KenC

[Bob Smith]

but wow! it *might* be a decent generality
(isnt that what you are taking exception to in the first place?..ohh the irony ..lol)

Errrr.... actually no AJ.  I was not taking exception to a simple generality.  As I clearly stated before typed in black and white, I am taking exception to an ABSOLUTE DEFINITIVE statement that said ALL such relationships are DOOMED.

ALL such relationships are DOOMED ≠ "In general you can expect more open racism in Ukraine"

The two statements are not equivalent.  AnastassiaAsh said the former.  You said the latter.  I 100% disagree with the former.  The latter based on my experience in Western Europe is probably true... also based on the State Department warning on their website.  Once again I'm going to make myself clear.  I am NOT disagreeing with you or the US State Department regarding the last statement, and I would urge caution whenever someone that doesn't look "Ukrainian" is traveling in Ukraine.

[TW1970]

It will be very interesting to hear about your trip and the impressions/reactions of others. Treat it like a vacation with options, get some "boots on the ground" time, and just have fun.

Thanks Catzenmouse! Ticket has been purchased and I am awaiting info on my apartment in Kiev.

[TW1970]

TW- you asked a sincere question on what the GENERAL attitiude of RW would be to
a black man visiting Ukraine. and you are mulatto?and yes i'll be quite un-PC like most RW are, and tell you that does make a difference to *many*, and since it doers, it would improve your chances.

From the Merriam-Webster Dictionary
Main Entry: mu·lat·to   
Pronunciation: \mə-ˈla-(ˌ)tō, mu̇-, myu̇-, -ˈlä-\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural mu·lat·toes or mu·lat·tos
Etymology: Spanish mulato, from mulo mule, from Latin mulus
Date: 1593
1 : the first-generation offspring of a black person and a white person
2 : a person of mixed white and black ancestry

According to this definition, why yes, I am a Mulatto so if that works in my favor great!

i find it incredbly odd those that have lived there,or have a bit odf real experience with that culture  and tell you how it actually is, are being beat down for giving you the information you requested.

that's bizarre really.

I've found many responses on here to my initial question quite bizarre myself but neverless enlightening.

TW- I wish you good luck..
(and yes , in wacky human relations any of us would need it)
If you are a reasonably handsome succesful man, these small hurdles are not going to dissuade you from traveling there. you have a friend on the ground there, so should have a great time visiting an interesting place.You seem to have guarded expecatations,and with all that going for you (i liked the caddyshack quote) are pretty far ahead of a lot of the knuckleheads that travel there.  

Thanks AJ. I believe I have generally realistic expectations and my 18 days there should be a good start. 

   





 

 

[ScottinCrimea]

...and I would urge caution whenever someone that doesn't look "Ukrainian" is traveling in Ukraine.

And what exactly does a "Ukrainian" look like?  Please don't offer advice regarding a place you really know nothing about.  Many who have spent much time in Ukraine have stated that they actually feel safer there than in any large city in the US.  Would you make the following statement? "I would urge caution whenever someone that doesn't look like a "New Yorker" is traveling in New York".

[TW1970]

One thing's for sure, the only expert on this subject around here is going to be TW when he returns and I bet there ain't one soul on this board that can dispute that!

Well, that's maybe being a bit generous but based on many of the comments, you might have a point. At least when I present my report when I return, good/bad/or uneventful, I hope it will be useful for folks here. Specifically by providing some insight into what a USA Mulatto (I could have used that in my opening post but it might have sparked another 200 responses, lol) experiences in the FSU in terms of folk's general attitudes and dating. Thanks again to all and especially to the few who have sent me PM's.

[Makkin]

  Thanks Groove.

Makkin

[Turboguy]

I don't think much that can be said has not already been said in this thread but I will throw out some odds and ends of conversations from my past.

4 or 5 years ago I took a singles cruise.  To make it affordable they bunk people together.  My room mate was a black guy from Baltimore who was also attracted to white women.  We became good friends and he told me a story about the worst day of his life.  Some friends hooked him up on a blind date and when he showed up on her door she turned out to be black.  Point being you are not alone.  I was a little surprised it was such a big deal for him but I am sure many guys feel that way and everyone has a right to their own ideas about what is right for them.

First conversation I ever had with a RW about Blacks.   A gal from a smaller town 400 miles from Moscow told me about the worst and scariest day of her life.   She visited a friend at school and when she was leaving the friends room a black person passed her in the hall.  That's it.   Lots of Russians just have never been around black people and some are really going to have reservations.

Second conversation with a UW about blacks.  I was out to diner in the outskirts of Kiev with a young (21) lady.   I will interject that we were in a private dining room with a closed door and individual heat and the first thing she said when she entered the room was as she turned up the thermostat she said she wanted the room warm so she could take off her clothes.  Unfortunately she just meant her coat.   A few minutes later she got into a solo discussion about blacks that would have gotten her killed where I live.  I found it really sad to hear anyone talk that way.

Third conversation about blacks was my former fiancee.  She was very fascinated by them and I think had a black person contacted her she would not have had a minutes hesitation in persuing a relationship.   Point in all this is just that the reaction will vary.   Some will be totally turned off and some will be very accepting.

Last conversation was a week ago.   My MIL visited for a month and went home last Sunday.  I asked VWRW what her mom's reaction was to being where there were so many black people.  I found the answer interesting and had never heard it before.  She said it did not bother her at all.  That the thing that really surprised her were black children.  She had seen adult blacks many times but since most of the black's in Russia are business people and an occasional tourist she had never seen black children in real life.  She thought black children were adorable and very cute and would have loved to have had her photo taken with some black kids to take home and show everyone but we could not think of a way to ask anyone without sounding rude.

When I was a kid the word Mulatto was pretty common.  I really think this thread is the first I have seen or heard it in 30 years.

[Faux Pas]

A few minutes later she got into a solo discussion about blacks that would have gotten her killed where I live.  I found it really sad to hear anyone talk that way.

Hey Turbo! This bit is somewhat confusing. She was saying dating a black man would have gotten her killed where "she" lived?

Well, that's maybe being a bit generous but based on many of the comments, you might have a point. At least when I present my report when I return, good/bad/or uneventful, I hope it will be useful for folks here. Specifically by providing some insight into what a USA Mulatto (I could have used that in my opening post but it might have sparked another 200 responses, lol) experiences in the FSU in terms of folk's general attitudes and dating. Thanks again to all and especially to the few who have sent me PM's.

TW,

I have been keeping up with this thread since you opened it. I remember seeing your picture and quite honestly you didn't appear in the picture to me, to be mulatto. From the picture you looked in color like any other black man. I only bring up this point because IMO being black vs mulatto will make little difference to the "general attitudes" you inquired about. It's more of a question of the individual women.

It seems to upset Bob Smith but the general attitudes for FSU women is that it is taboo to marry outside their race. But I caution, that is just a general attitude and certainly not indicative of all FSUW. Some will completely reject you and make no excuses, some will wish to "play around" with you out of curiosity and some would pursue a relationship and consider marriage. FWIW I know of two black men who have made the trips and married RW and as far as I know are happily married to this day. It does happen, why it isn't as prevalent with black  men as it is with white men, you be the judge.

[AnastassiaAsh]

It seems to upset Bob Smith but the general attitudes for FSU women is that it is taboo to marry outside their race.

He might wonder where in the world you got that crazy idea!  And also will go against your word 'taboo' for another 5-10 pages.  So be very careful, Faux Pas.

[Faux Pas]

He might wonder where in the world you got that crazy idea!  And also will go against your word 'taboo' for another 5-10 pages.  So be very careful, Faux Pas.

Yes he might! I haven't understood why his wishes to continue to debate your answer or the fact of the matter that, this is the reality in the FSU along with some other countries as well. BTW Anastassia, I didn't understand your posts as stating "all" such relationships were "doomed". I thought your post was pretty explicit and to the point of the subject. Its just too bad for him if it is not what he wants to hear, or in this case read. I suppose one could take any post if they choose and attempt bend it into something that might offend them. I may have done it before   

[LiveFromUkraine]

Yes he might! I haven't understood why his wishes to continue to debate your answer or the fact of the matter that, this is the reality in the FSU along with some other countries as well. BTW Anastassia, I didn't understand your posts as stating "all" such relationships were "doomed". I thought your post was pretty explicit and to the point of the subject. Its just too bad for him if it is not what he wants to hear, or in this case read. I suppose one could take any post if they choose and attempt bend it into something that might offend them. I may have done it before   

Or you can stop kissing her ass long enough to see how she pretends to be an expert on things she doesn't know.  Like black communities which I have yet to see in the FSU or in white christian america.


Thomas

[Makkin]

  If you travel to Utah then you will see what she is talking about to some degree. Many places in the United States have communities in large numbers of white/christian/and McCain voters. Since it's still touted as a free country it's also 300,000,000 large with a majority at about 70-73% in what she descibes. Why on or how on earth could you miss the White/Christian/McCain supporters who make up the majority of the country?

Makkin

[ScottinCrimea]

  If you travel to Utah then you will see what she is talking about to some degree. Many places in the United States have communities in large numbers of white/christian/and McCain voters. Since it's still touted as a free country it's also 300,000,000 large with a majority at about 70-73% in what she descibes. Why on or how on earth could you miss the White/Christian/McCain supporters who make up the majority of the country?

Makkin

Makkin, I live in Utah.  have you spent any amount of time here?

[Makkin]

Hi Scott,

  In answer to your question YES and also Montana and Idaho. Funny how you always ask if someone has any experience that equals yours..lol As if you have the superior qualification M8..lol

  St. George ring a bell? College town of sorts and also a nice place to LIVE..lol Any other questions? Like would you want to know what years and how long I've been in Utah during my life?

  Once I worked for three straight summers in Utah with relatives and such. Am I qualified yet..lol I know you would do more than just ask and make a statement after I give you info that you asked for and go for it Scott...lol

Makkin

[AnastassiaAsh]

Or you can stop kissing her ass long enough to see how she pretends to be an expert on things she doesn't know.  Like black communities which I have yet to see in the FSU or in white christian america.
Thomas

You are right, there are no black communities really in FSU or they are very tiny, THAT'S WHY RW mostly don't even see black people, leave alone date them, leave alone black foreigners from abroad.
I said I live among white Christian people but I know of black communities in Pittsburgh for example. When I said white Christian America, it doesn't mean that black people don't exist in America, we all know it is multi international and multi race. But i give my vote to McCain.

Or you can stop kissing her ass long enough to see how she pretends to be an expert on things she doesn't know.

Well, even if he does, at least he is kissing a white one  , i can see you prefer black.  Any pretence is not about me. Did you want me to say? - "Yes, of course, it doesn't matter what color of your skin is, your chances are the same as white men's" - while in reality I married a white man and will never consider marrying half or quarter black/white/mulatto/mexican.... THAT would have been a pretence on my part. Very few RW even consider dating black men.

[Ronnie]

I stumbled into this "room" and see you all are kissing and dissing.  Looks like fun!

Oh, the OP had a serious question and I'm sure it's been answered in a hundred different ways (heck I may have thrown in my 2 kopecks worth myself..don't remember now).

In looking at your photo, I see that not only was your mother white but I suspect your father was partly white too.  You look like a male version of Mariah Carey to me...Derek Jeter comes to mind.   Stick to the major cities and you should have no issues at all.

Note: I look forward to the day, which won't be in my lifetime, that Americans stop identifying themselves with some race or ethnicity.  I guess that day won't come as long as the government insists on asking us on official forms to choose between,  White-Hispanic, White non-Hispanic, Black, Asian, American Indian, Pacific Islander.  If they'd add one more box and label it "All of the above" We could all check it and end the nonsense.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Did you want me to say? - "Yes, of course, it doesn't matter what color of your skin is, your chances are the same as white men's" - while in reality I married a white man and will never consider marrying half or quarter black/white/mulatto/mexican.... THAT would have been a pretence on my part. Very few RW even consider dating black men.

Please...  Try answering the question without trying to sound like an expert on how the black community will look at him or how multi cultural-multi racial relationships are "DOOMED" when they do exist.  It only makes yourself look stupid. 

Well, even if  he does, at least he is kissing a white one  Wink, i can see you prefer black.

The more you talk the more you sound like a racist.  Like this statement is suppose to offend me?  HAHAHAHA...try again.

I would prefer to kiss black ass over your racist white ass any day. 




Thomas

[Ronnie]

And, when will jerks stop calling people racist because they voice a "personal" preference based on physical features? 

It's a sorry, sorry situation