A child from Russia is killed in the USA

[BC]

It looks like some Americans solve this problem in a  more radical way: they just kill the "naughty" child as it's less expensive than sending the child back or having an appointment with a phychologyst.

Serebro,

The big question you seem to pose is what support structure exists for parents choosing to adopt internationally vs those that adopt within the US.  From what I have seen there is a difference.  My research was admittedly a bit brief.

A child adopted via international channels seems to have a deficit when it comes to post adoption support since they are outside the 'normal' adoption structures within the US.

I would really, really like for someone to prove me wrong.

[krimster]

russia allowed it because essentially they were dumping unwanted handicapped children.
Americans who wanted to adopt couldn't choose the baby they wanted
They hoped to get a bright rosy cheeked child
Instead they were given handicapped children, in the most recent case the children had Down's syndrome
The parents were not able to cope, I challenge any of you to TRY to take care of a severely handicapped child.
It's a nightmare life, imagine the kind of emotions you must have.

The solution for Russia was obvious DO NOT adopt disabled children, but the Russians didn't want to do this

[BC]

russia allowed it because essentially they were dumping unwanted handicapped children.
Americans who wanted to adopt couldn't choose the baby they wanted
They hoped to get a bright rosy cheeked child
Instead they were given handicapped children, in the most recent case the children had Down's syndrome
The parents were not able to cope, I challenge any of you to TRY to take care of a severely handicapped child.
It's a nightmare life, imagine the kind of emotions you must have.

The solution for Russia was obvious DO NOT adopt disabled children, but the Russians didn't want to do this

Krimster,

I would think any child from an orphanage anywhere on this planet will be carrying some kind of emotional/developmental or physical baggage that will have to be dealt with.  My hats off to the other 49,986 American parents that adopted a RU child over the last 10 years AND that adopted American children regardless of ethnic/cultural background.

Many Americans can afford to help a child in need and I am happy they can.  I hope that many more in RU will be able to do so in the future also.

Another point.. I haven't even counted the number of posts in this thread.  We've discussed and discussed but haven't really tried to do anything practical about those who need most.  Anyone even remotely interested in supporting a good cause for the kids that remain in homes or on the street?  I think as much attention and emotion as this topic has caused maybe those participating in it might be willing to contribute to something worthwhile..  Haven't a clue as to what 'cause' org or method though..

<--looking up saying 'Don't let this thread die now...'

[Ronnie]

This thread will stay alive as long as Serebro wants it to.  All she has to do it repeat or rephrase the same absurdities and someone will reply.

[BC]

This thread will stay alive as long as Serebro wants it to.  All she has to do it repeat or rephrase the same absurdities and someone will reply.

If the absurd provokes thought there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.

My quote for the day.

[Ronnie]

It's the repeating of the same absurdity that is numbing.

[BC]

It's the repeating of the same absurdity that is numbing.

Like my double edged razor.

My old teacher would have said 'Get with the program'.

[KenC]

If the absurd provokes thought there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.

My quote for the day.

BC,
You keep trying (desperately) to give some credit to Serebro for a thought inducing thread here and personally I think you are wrong in a big way.  The insights and deep thinking here came to light in spite of Serebro's absurdity not because of it.
(There is my thought for the day)
KenC

[BC]

BC,
You keep trying (desperately) to give some credit to Serebro for a thought inducing thread here and personally I think you are wrong in a big way.  The insights and deep thinking here came to light in spite of Serebro's absurdity not because of it.
(There is my thought for the day)
KenC

Quite honestly, it was her fault and desperate I am not. Yet, a damsel in distress does get my attention but does not hinder my ability to investigate. 

Fair?

[KenC]

"Do not feed the trolls" redirects here. For the Wikipedia essay, see Wikipedia:What is a troll?
An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial and usually irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, with the intention of baiting other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.[2]
Except for the fact that the subject of Russian orphans is not necessarily "off topic", please tell me the difference between this Wikipedia definition of a troll and Serebro?
KenC

[BC]

"Do not feed the trolls" redirects here. For the Wikipedia essay, see Wikipedia:What is a troll?
An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial and usually irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, with the intention of baiting other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.[2]
Except for the fact that the subject of Russian orphans is not necessarily "off topic", please tell me the difference between this Wikipedia definition of a troll and Serebro?
KenC

Ken,

with that definition I may not be, but do feel like a troll... LOL

[Gator]

I am participating in a golf tournament this weekend, which gave me the opportunity to talk with friend whose daughter adopted a Russian orphan.  Here are the facts:

1.  His daughter worked with an American religious organization to adopt her son.

2.  She made repeated trips to Russia and twice my friend joined her.

3.  Russian authorities will allow only orphans with health defects and physical handicaps to be adopted.   Healthy orphans are not allowed to leave Russia even if it means they will never be adopted.

4.  The baby is selected by the orphanage; the adopting parents have the right only to say "yes" or "no" to the particular baby offerred by the orphanage.

5.  My friend's daughter rejected three babies as too severely handicapped before agreeing to the boy who she eventually adopted.

6.  Her team of American physicians studied the boy's medical records and advised her about the medical implications before she agreed.

7.  The particular boy she adopted was suffering from an immune disorder plus some skeletal problems.  He has improved in both areas yet will wear leg braces for a long, long time.  Most important, the boy is very intelligent.

8.  She paid $34,000 in cash to Russian authorities to adopt the baby.

9.  This amount excludes her travel, etc., and in total she has spent over $50,000.

10.  I will not repeat what he had to say about the care given by Russian authorities to orphans, particularly handicapped children.  


Any person who thinks Americans are mistreating adopted orphans is missing the point.   Americans are taking Russia's unwanted and sick babies and giving them a chance at life, and paying the Russian authorities a princely sum to do it.  There is one phrase to describe this -  a heart filled with love. 

Anyone who says that Russians can not afford to adopt such kids and are able to take care of them is missing another point - Russia could if they wanted to give orphans a higher priority.  Evidently they don't.

Blaming Americans seems ridiculous.  Russia should be thanking Americans.

Just thought everyone would like to read about one person's actual experience.

[Blues Fairy]

3.  Russian authorities will allow only orphans with health defects and physical handicaps to be adopted.   Healthy orphans are not allowed to leave Russia even if it means they will never be adopted.

This statement is not corroborated by the statistics.
Here's stats for 2006 from the site www.usynovite.ru, the official adoption portal of the Ministry of Education:

Country          Number of kids adopted    Number of invalids
USA               3468                             80
Spain             1294                             38
Italy               704                              21
France            408                              25
Germany         188                              14
Ireland            153                              1
Israel              111                              0
Canada            92                               0
Finland             54                               0
Sweden            46                               2
Other countries 171                              6

Source: http://www.usynovite.ru/statistics/2006/countries/

The stats do, however confirm that we should be grateful to Americans.

Another table (http://www.usynovite.ru/statistics/2006/foreign_2006/) shows numbers of kids adopted by Russian vs foreign families, by regions.  In some regions, foreign adoptions are negligible.  In other regions, considerably more kids are adopted by foreigners than Russians.  Must it be due to the prevalence of disabled kids in those regions?  Highly unlikely.  I think these matters are largely at the discretion of the local courts.

[KenC]

Blues Fairy,
Maybe the word "invalid" is skewing things?  Lena has checked adoption out as an option for us and she found that only because she is still a Russian citizen that we could adopt a healthy baby.  She found that foreigners could only adopt kids with defects.  Does "defect" equal "invalid"?  Who knows?
KenC

[Blues Fairy]

She found that foreigners could only adopt kids with defects. 

Could you or she cite the source if this information? It could be the policy of a particular orphanage.  The law postulates that Russian citizens have precedence in adopting a child and foreign families should only be offered those kids who cannot be adopted in Russia.  However, the time limit on this condition is something like 6 months, as far as I know.  The courts check how long the kid has been in the database; health issues etc.  Ultimately it's at the court's discretion.   

My husband's colleague has recently adopted a perfectly healthy Russian girl. 

[DKMM]

Jealous people will stoop to no level of absurdity to disparage people doing better than them.  Its universal in humanity.  It happens often with people from lower classes...

[Misha]

Does "defect" equal "invalid"?  Who knows?

No, it doesn't.

According to Argumenty i fakty:

"Чаще всего заокеанские приемные родители увозят из России больных детей (в прошлом году наши усыновили 29 детей-инвалидов, иностранцы — 219). В их число не входят дети с такими дефектами, как волчья пасть, заячья губа, больные туберкулезом, с синдромом Дауна. У таких детей нет вообще шансов на усыновление россиянами, а иностранцы увозят их за границу, делают операции, лечат. Мало шансов быть усыновленными и у сирот после 7 лет (в прошлом году только 359 человек попали в новые русские семьи и 1078 уехали за границу)." (source: http://gazeta.aif.ru/online/aif/1290/12_02).

I won't translate it word for word, but the one thing that it points out is that foreigners adopt sick kids. The article lists a variety of health problems that would not get a child classified as an "invalid" ranging from a cleft lip and palate to  Down Syndrome.

[Jet]

I won't translate it word for word, but the one thing that it points out is that foreigners adopt sick kids. The article lists a variety of health problems that would not get a child classified as an "invalid" ranging from a cleft lip and palate to  Down Syndrome.

Here's a quick RussKey translation for those who don't read Russian (it will give the gist):

Most frequently overseas foster parents take away from Russia the sick children (in the past year our they adopted 29 child- invalids, foreigners - 219). Into their number the children with such defects as cleft palate, hare lip, patients with tuberculosis, do not enter with Down's syndrome. Such children do not have generally chances to the adoption by Russians, and foreigners take away them abroad, makes to operation, they treat. It is small chances to be usynovlennymi also in orphans after 7 years (in the past year only 359 people burn in new Russian families and 1078 they left abroad).

[Gator]

Blues Fairy,

All I know is what a trusted friend told me:    "My daughter was not given an opportunity to adopt a baby without 'defects.' "   The translated documents are consistent with what my friend told me.

He and his wife love their little grandson.  They believe over time, and with full care and attention, that his two problems will improve to normal.  Most important, their grandson is very intelligent.

All of us can speculate.  I have zero direct experience with adoptions of Russians. For example, maybe someone has  to pay much more than $34,000 to get a healthy baby.  Sounds terrible, but who knows? 

[Ronnie]

Jealous people will stoop to no level of absurdity to disparage people doing better than them.  Its universal in humanity.  It happens often with people from lower classes...

DKMM,
Maybe you could define a couple of things so I can better understand what you mean..

1. What is "doing better than"  Making more money?  Doing more good deed?  Something else?

2. What is meant by "lower classes"... Making less money/having less power? Born in a poor family?  Having lower IQ or less education?  Poor manners?  Something else?


   

[krimster]

Russian politicians have created a distorted media frenzy in regards to adoption
Falling population numbers have lead to a feeling of insecurity about the future.
Russians don't like seeing Russian children becoming happy foreign citizens. Rodina! Rodina! They all cry!
You will NEVER EVER see in Russia media happy stories about Russian orphans in foreign countries, EVER, even though they are more than 99.9% of the cases
like this



Search on youtube for adoption and Russia, look at the hundreds of videos of foreign parents giving the highest love and care to these orphans.
I repeat you will not see one second of this in Russia media, because it doesn't suit the government's cause.
Remember the national media in Russia is owned by the government.

Listen to the NPR story here for this:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4703257

or

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9810880

In Soviet Russia the people were crucified for Rodina
what's a few thousand more orphans today?

[BC]

CNN Top Stories for today

    * Death toll from Iraq fighting nears 300
    * Quake in Indonesia raises tsunami fears
    * Opposition cries foul as Zimbabwe votes
    * 75 feared dead in Tanzanian mine floods
    * Mosque bombing in Nepal kills 2
    * Clinton rejects calls to quit Democratic race
    * Humans lose lives in controversial seal hunt Video
    * Brief scuffle at Olympic torch relay
    * Cities go dark worldwide for Earth Hour
    * Dutch lawmaker: Why I made Islam film Video
    * Saudi Arabia slams Syria over Lebanon crisis
    * Cheetah attacks woman at cat sanctuary
    * Fire damages author Clancy's home
    * Hostage standoff caught on tape

Good news does not sell copy.

[krimster]

BC,
   The amount of "bad news" in Russian media is strictly controlled

See here
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/22/world/europe/22russia.html?pagewanted=print

At their first meeting with journalists since taking over Russia’s largest independent radio news network, the managers had startling news of their own: from now on, they said, at least 50 percent of the reports about Russia must be “positive.”

Soooo, bad news can only be associated with foreign countries.

Even so, the big orphanage scandal on Russian TV a couple of years ago was of having crying orphans having their mouths taped shut. Long live Rodina!

[Serebro]

krimster, lmao, since NYtimes says that Icon is a good movie I can't call it a reliable source of information anymore

[Bluebell]

Romania was another ill-reputed country for how it treated its orphane children.

After '89 shocking pictures appeared in the WEstern as well as Romanian media about these unfortunate children: they lived in unhumane conditions, in complete misery (cold, dirt), starved, dressed in rugs, with a  blank expression in their eyes, severely underdevelopped physically as well as mentally.

Romania, just like Russia, was selling these children to the West until it was stopped by the EU. Since then, due to pressures from the EU and other WEstern organisations, conditions in orphanages improved a lot, but even so, it is a pity that these children can't be adopted to the West. Most of the orphane children in Romania are of Gypsy origin and so, the chance of their adoption by Romanian families is nearly 0. While Western people, regardless of their origin, would adopt them. Once Coco and I met a Swedish couple at the Hotel Sofitel, Bucharest with their adopted children. The girls were of Gypsy origin and could still speak Romanian but otherwise, nothing reminded of their origin in their behaviour. They were well-mannered girls who often gave kisses to their adopting parents and were showing their affection in many ways.

It's a shame when a country is not able to take care of its own children but spends millions and millions on wars, propaganda, protocol.