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Author Topic: A child from Russia is killed in the USA  (Read 34990 times)

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Offline Shadow

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Re: A child from Russia is killed in the USA
« Reply #125 on: March 26, 2008, 11:22:33 AM »
Shadow,
Not to be picayune, but you did say TV shows and media and the only examples given were movies.
KenC
KenC, as I rarely watch any television nowadays, my references are from memory a couple of years back. Either I am getting old, or coverage has changed.
No it is not a dog. Its really how I look.  ;)

Offline Misha

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Re: A child from Russia is killed in the USA
« Reply #126 on: March 26, 2008, 11:26:52 AM »
As you might know most Russians do not understand English and there for would not be interested in an American station.

Most Americans don't understand Russian, yet Russia produces and ENGLISH-language channel that is aired on American cable television. Would Russia tolerate a RUSSIAN-language television channel financed by the United States to air on Russian cable television? I doubt it!

Offline Makkin

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Re: A child from Russia is killed in the USA
« Reply #127 on: March 26, 2008, 11:30:25 AM »


  Looks like a cold war here on the boards and all I can say is..."Bring It"


Makkin
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Offline Ronnie

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Re: A child from Russia is killed in the USA
« Reply #128 on: March 26, 2008, 11:31:28 AM »
People should read the article posted by 55 today concerning the struggle of some Russian doctors in trying to bring a small town hospital up to better standard.  The article is generally favorable of Russia but highlights the struggle between the progressive Russians and the old guard bureaucrats:

"The hospital funding was a bright example of the growing philanthropy of Russia's wealthy. But it was also a window into the stifling role Russia's bureaucracy can play, even in a sector deemed a national priority by President-elect Dmitry Medvedev."

There are some comments made by one of the doctors that seem to underscore the basic problem.  I believe that some Russians truly believe that nobody can do something just because it's the right thing to do; whether it's building a hospital wing with private funds or adopting orphans.  We see some of that dynamic here in this very forum.

Here's how the Russian doctor who's been leading the project put it:

"My language is as impossible for them to understand as theirs is for me," Ossipov said of the local officials who, by his account, found it hard to believe that the doctors had no personal stake in the improvements."

I remember Krimster running into a similar attitude when he tried to do some good for the school while living in Crimea.  I think Russia will be a great nation once the corruption and distrust are wrung out of society even to a modest degree.  She has some fighters for freedom and justice in her midst who want only what's best for Russia.  Eventually they will win out.  I just don't know how long it will take.

Here's the link again for those who would like to read the entire article:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/20/AR2008032003869.html?referrer=emailarticle
« Last Edit: March 26, 2008, 11:34:16 AM by Ronnie »
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Offline wxman

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Re: A child from Russia is killed in the USA
« Reply #129 on: March 26, 2008, 11:39:08 AM »
Freedom of the press in the US no longer means reporting freely without government interference, but reporting with a political slant that favors their point of view.  Media may not be owned by government per se, instead, the media owns the political parties. The owners of those media sources are either huge donors to the democratic or republican party. In the end, the media controls the government by how it reports the news. Which is more frightening, the government owning the media, or the media owning the government? 
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting that vote." – Benjamin Franklin -

Offline Misha

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Re: A child from Russia is killed in the USA
« Reply #130 on: March 26, 2008, 11:43:32 AM »
the media owns the political parties

This makes it sound as if there is one media controlled by one person. The reality of the matter is that you have media competing with each other. Yes, they have their slants, but they do not have to answer directly to one media "president."

Offline Ronnie

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Re: A child from Russia is killed in the USA
« Reply #131 on: March 26, 2008, 12:23:18 PM »
The differences between the political parties is, for the most part, window dressing.  It is not the media that owns the parties or the government who owns the media.  It's not about ownership at all.

It's about control and power.  And, control lies with the world's central bankers who do not function independently of one another.  As one European banking magnate put it,

 "Permit me to issue and control the money of a nation and I care not who makes the laws."  - Mayer Amschel Rothschild

 Anyone recognize the author of the following?:

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies."

The author of the above was the same man who authored the Declaration of Independence, the best thinker of the last 500 years -Thomas Jefferson.
 
How do the bankers connect with and control the media and political parties?

Think hard....Maybe our smiley friend can help us.. :usdeyes:
« Last Edit: March 26, 2008, 12:25:36 PM by Ronnie »
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Offline Gator

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Re: A child from Russia is killed in the USA
« Reply #132 on: March 26, 2008, 12:28:12 PM »
Perhaps you can give some links to examples about the Russian misinformation about the West. There are enought Russian internet TV channels to get sources from.

Shadow, you have always impressed me as a reasonable man, so I am glad that you picked up the torch to defend Russian media as not using misinformation to bash America.

If you think that the article in the OP of this thread is balanced and accurate journalism, you should eat your hat.  However, let us forget it for now.

So, as you suggested I surfed through Russian media, but only the most recent pages of Pravda.  It is, after all, the TRUTH.

News Accounts

I first read the news accounts for America.  At the top of the list was a piece about Cynthia McKinney, Green Party Candidate for US Presidential election.  Why give attention to a radical with so little following.  

I looked for articles that surely had some juicy parts such as:

Robert Gates and Condoleezza Rice come to Moscow for nothing   - surely some bashing here, but none.

Sex scandals testify to true democracy? - The only thing added to the wire story was the following very odd sentence:

Quote
Such a radical reaction to sex scandals raises envy with Russia, where it is generally believed that the retribution for sex affairs is a token of true democracy and testifies to the real responsibility of the authorities to the people.

When I saw the following headline, I knew I had something:  

Dick Cheney, Darth Vader, hails Ronald Reagan’s hatred of the Soviet Union - Nothing.  In fact Pravda was too easy IMO on the SOB Cheney.  

Hillary Clinton LYING Again - Maybe that is because I think the woman would make a worse president than Bush.

In summary, the news accounts are fairly accurate unlike the one in the OP. As I read them, it was apparent that Pravda essentially repeated the wire stories, adding very little, oftentimes nothing, in the way of bashing.  

Columnists/Opinions

I knew I would find something here, where someone can use his editorial license to write anything. I was not disappointed.  Almost everything had inflammatory language.  Here are three examples.


Iraq: 5 years on, no end in sight
 
Quote
After five whole years of war crimes, criminal mismanagement, breach of the UN Charter, breach of the Geneva Convention, mass murder, torture, rape, deployment of weapons of mass destruction in civilian residential areas, destruction of civilian structures with military hardware, Iraq continues in chaos.



Newsweek calls Russia “Pariah State”

Quote
The US. Newsweek’s latest edition provides a classic example of the insolent, chauvinistic protagonism which passes for “quality”, by calling Russia a “pariah state”.

Quite what persuaded the author to refer to Russia as a “pariah state” defies logic. Was it his editors, who told him to spice it up if he wanted to receive his pay check or see his contract renewed? Or was it an arrogant, belligerant, chauvinistic holier-than-thou attitude so common in the USA after two terms of the Bush regime having led it into the backwaters of international law, where it has lost its way so completely?

So brackish are these backwaters, indeed, that Washington today portrays a sorry and pathetic figure, standing in the sewer of its own self-making after breaching every law in the book, proclaiming its own self-righteousness while acting like a criminal state, talking about fighting international terrorism while aiding and abetting terrorist organizations like the KLA and openly supporting criminals and terrorists like Hashim Thaci.



The chickens come home to roost

Quote
How ironic it is that in America an extramarital affair rises to the level of “high crimes and misdemeanors” but the following does not:

1.  The use of torture...

2. The use of slave labor for corporate profits....

3. Lack of patriotism ... [the columnist is pointing at American corporations selling military arms for a profit, and leaving America during wartime to exploit lax labor and environmental standards in other nations]

4.  Price gouging... [the columnist is pointing at Big Oil]

5.  The protection of corporate fascism.  Where is the moral outrage over the fact that, regardless of what political party is in power, all governmental institutions, under the guise (or lies) of promoting “freedom” and “democracy,” exploit their resources to protect the profits of multi-national corporations.

Quote
So forget the slaughter of innocents, forget the lies that caused thousands of Americans to die in an illegal war, forget the exploitation of the workers and the millions without health insurance, forget the cowardice of the war hawks who refused to serve in the military themselves, forget the undermining of democracy through electoral fraud and corrupt Supreme Court justices, forget the fact that corporate fascism has replaced democracy in America, forget the fact that torture is now an acceptable part of American jurisprudence, and forget that every law, policy and institution in America is designed to ensure that the rich get richer while the poor get poorer. After all, in the eyes of the plutocrats who truly control America, none of these things are immoral.

The moral of the story is this: American politicians can do nothing immoral, illegal or worthy of impeachment, no matter how vile, unjust or corrupt it may be, as long as they keep their clothes on while doing it.

And the fact that Americans continue to permit such a moral to exist is the greatest immorality of all.

Who Wrote These?

This is the really odd part.  The first two columns were written by Timothy Bancroft-Hinchey.  That does not sound Russian.  In fact, he’s a British songwriter with a degree from Leeds,  describing himself as "one of the leading English song-writers of the 1980s."  These are credentials to write political columns for Pravda.  And he does not use spellcheck.

David R. Hoffman wrote the third.  He is a leftist and has been writing for years about the "Great Lies of the American Free Press."

So why don't Russians write anti-America pieces in Russia's Pravda?


There is Hope

Pravda had one short article that gave me faith that Russians would now have access to the real truth, to watch authentic portrayals of life in America.  This is the article:


http://english.pravda.ru/news/science/26-03-2008/104673-South_Park%20%20-0

Offline wxman

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Re: A child from Russia is killed in the USA
« Reply #133 on: March 26, 2008, 12:41:43 PM »
This makes it sound as if there is one media controlled by one person. The reality of the matter is that you have media competing with each other. Yes, they have their slants, but they do not have to answer directly to one media "president."

Most people in this country get their national info from network news. I say most, because only a small percentage of Americans take the time to get the whole story. This television media decides what is put on the news, and how it is slanted. Most of the networks are highly slanted to the left and use that power to promote that view to their viewers. Fox news is highly slanted to the right and they use that to promote their views. Politicians on either the left or the right know that, and in order to get elected or re-elected must bow down to the wishes of the media in order to get a postive spin put on their campaign. A politician that doesn't go along with the wishes of the media has no chance.  Perception by the public is what gets them elected, not substance. And media is where that perception is created. Media has a huge impact on who gets the party nomination and most Americans have no clue that is happening.
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting that vote." – Benjamin Franklin -

Offline Misha

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Re: A child from Russia is killed in the USA
« Reply #134 on: March 26, 2008, 12:46:53 PM »
Gator, though I do not disagree with your analysis of the English-language Pravda, the Russian-language Pravda is a bit more interesting.

Some of the top headlines that I can read:

  • "PRO [Missile defense]:The Czech and Americans Want to Spit in the Face of Russia
  • "The British found for the Americans an Emperor"
  • "The USA has decided to "lead peace in the 21st century"


Again, these are rough translations (I do not claim to be a professional translator), but they do give the gist of the content in today's online Pravda (see http://pravda.ru/). There are radical differences between the English and Russian versions: this makes sense as the Russian version is destined for Russian-speakers and the English version is there to shape the image of Russia in the eyes of foreigners.

Offline krimster

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Pravda - The funniest thing I've ever read, unbelievable!!
« Reply #135 on: March 26, 2008, 01:15:41 PM »

Offline Gator

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Re: A child from Russia is killed in the USA
« Reply #136 on: March 26, 2008, 01:59:44 PM »
Gabuab,

Thanks.  This suggests that the Pravda stories are given some anti-West spices not to debate and counter world opinion, but more to build nationalism among Russian citizens.  Why does the Russian government think this is necessary?

Let us see what the Flying Dutchman (Shadow) has to say.

Offline Ronnie

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Re: A child from Russia is killed in the USA
« Reply #137 on: March 26, 2008, 02:01:54 PM »
I agree that unless you read the edition intended for domestic consumption in the local language you don't get a true picture of the media bias. 
I get a feed from "Corriere Della Sera" (The evening Courier) out of Italy and one of the headlines recently startled me. 
Translated, it read "Only the USA benefits from Kosovo Independence"  The article went on to paint a picture of America controlling the world for it's own benefit.  There was no mention of European support or merits of independence or of Serbia's long history of brutality against this region.
Ronnie
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Offline Serebro

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Re: A child from Russia is killed in the USA
« Reply #138 on: March 26, 2008, 02:36:46 PM »
I agree that unless you read the edition intended for domestic consumption in the local language you don't get a true picture of the media bias. 
I get a feed from "Corriere Della Sera" (The evening Courier) out of Italy and one of the headlines recently startled me. 
Translated, it read "Only the USA benefits from Kosovo Independence"  The article went on to paint a picture of America controlling the world for it's own benefit.  There was no mention of European support or merits of independence or of Serbia's long history of brutality against this region.

Ronnie, providing not all americans know WHERE Serbia is (I don't mention its history)they only know what their government tell them about the reasons...so I doubt you can judge  the reasons that a newspaper of the european country gives :D

I still remember a few years ago when Russia brought some troops to Georgia we laughed at remarks of some americans giving comments about the article of NYT about it... the remarks were:

"how could that happen, what will be the next state... Florida?!!!!!"
 :ROFL:

poor americans discussing the article didn't know that there's a country named Georgia which is next to Russia. they thought that Russian are in the america state named Georgia:cluebat:

Offline krimster

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stupid Americans
« Reply #139 on: March 26, 2008, 02:44:51 PM »
stupid americans zey know nozing!

oh, oh...
zey invented Microprocessors
zey invented nuclear technology
zey're the only country that landed on the moon
internet, google, amazon, yahoo even WWW.RUSSIANWOMENDISCUSSION.COM
zey pioneered the mass produced automobile
zey developed telegraphy, telephony, wireless technology first
zey have an economy 12 times the size of Russia's
zey have twice as many people and is growing

oh ze americans are so "tu-tu"
 


Offline Serebro

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Re: A child from Russia is killed in the USA
« Reply #140 on: March 26, 2008, 02:58:07 PM »
zey bought scientists from many different countries after the WWI-WWII who invented all those nice things :D

Offline wxman

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Re: A child from Russia is killed in the USA
« Reply #141 on: March 26, 2008, 03:01:26 PM »
zey vere given ze choice of either Russia or US. Zey chose US. Zey vere not so dumb!  :D
« Last Edit: March 26, 2008, 03:03:14 PM by wxman »
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting that vote." – Benjamin Franklin -

Offline Serebro

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Re: A child from Russia is killed in the USA
« Reply #142 on: March 26, 2008, 03:05:46 PM »
hey,  krimster, zey didn't have much choice:0
ze country zey lived in sufferd a lot after the world wars, zey had no food to eet, america didn't suffer, it only put its nose to the war to make itself feel like it was necessary and to say ze citizens that zey also took part in ze war :D

Offline Serebro

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Re: A child from Russia is killed in the USA
« Reply #143 on: March 26, 2008, 03:07:04 PM »
Zey chose US. Zey vere not so dumb!  :D
zey were dumb cos dollar is falling down when zey are offered more money in euros in europe they will go to europe and only mexicans will come to the USa, yes the US population is growing, but look at people who are coming now :P
« Last Edit: March 26, 2008, 03:09:17 PM by Serebro »

Offline wxman

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Re: A child from Russia is killed in the USA
« Reply #144 on: March 26, 2008, 03:07:54 PM »
zey were dumb cos dollar is falling down

Zey are dead now. Zey don't care.  :D
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting that vote." – Benjamin Franklin -

Offline wxman

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Re: A child from Russia is killed in the USA
« Reply #145 on: March 26, 2008, 03:11:31 PM »
ze country zey lived in sufferd a lot after the world wars, zey had no food to eet, america didn't suffer, it only put its nose to the war to make itself feel like it was necessary and to say ze citizens that zey also took part in ze war :D

Ve were begged to enter ze big var by Mr Churchill and Mr Stalin. Zen ze Japanese said ve vill bomb ze US. Zen ze japanese said zey are ally of germany.  So ze US then enter ze big var. 
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting that vote." – Benjamin Franklin -

Offline Serebro

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Re: A child from Russia is killed in the USA
« Reply #146 on: March 26, 2008, 03:17:18 PM »
Quote
Ve were begged to enter ze big var by Mr Churchill and Mr Stalin
.
oh, ic, zats vot u ar told at skoolz :D
zat iz kold propaganda :D

Offline wxman

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Re: A child from Russia is killed in the USA
« Reply #147 on: March 26, 2008, 03:22:06 PM »
Ve have film of Mr Churchill addressing ze congress asking for help, and speaking with ze President. First ve say no, zen we say ve vill send supplies but no troops. Zen ze sneaky Japanese say bonzai and make us very mad. So ve say you vill be sorry. So ve blow zem up.  :D
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting that vote." – Benjamin Franklin -

Offline Serebro

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Re: A child from Russia is killed in the USA
« Reply #148 on: March 26, 2008, 03:29:38 PM »
Ve have film of Mr Churchill addressing ze congress asking for help, and speaking with ze President. First ve say no, zen we say ve vill send supplies but no troops. Zen ze sneaky Japanese say bonzai and make us very mad. So ve say you vill be sorry. So ve blow zem up.  :D
Mr Churchill isn't Comrade Stalin :D
Show mee ze moovee viz Stalin 'nd maybee I'll beeleev

Offline krimster

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A matter of a few miilion dead
« Reply #149 on: March 26, 2008, 03:44:26 PM »
OK, I'm tryin to understand the Russian government here.  Seems the Russian government doesn't dispute the fact that several million Ukrainians died during the calamity commonly referred to as the Holodomor.  However, according to the Russian government Ukraine CANNOT claim that this calamity was "genocide", nope, can't do it, because according to the reasoning of the Russian government genocide is ONLY directed at ONE group of people, and as the Russian government points out, millions were lost in Kazakstan as well.  Do I get this correctly?  Does this mean that Russia doesn't recognize the Jewish holocaust as genocide, because Gypsies were killed as well?

OK, what about those 14 dead children, IT"S AN OUTRAGE THOSE AMERICAN SVOLICHEE

PS, if RUSSIA really wanted to reduce abuse and similar things to adopted Russian children, some basic COMMON SENSE would have been enough
1. Don't adopt severely handicapped children, only healthy ones
2. Don't adopt to single men, only families who've passed a background check

This probably would have reduced the 14 cases to 1 or 2, so let's put it this way if there were 20 SEVERE cases of abuse in the 15 years or so
since children have been adopted from Russia, and if there was a complaint office that handled these abuse cases.  It would receive a case about once every 9 months.  If my two simple guidelines were used, maybe one case every 5 years.  Maybe a population of 60,000 children would reflect a Russian city of
400,000 people.  How many children's abuse cases are there in a Russian city this size each year?


 

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