Run for your lives....The propaganda war

[Jet]

In the thread Serebro started regarding the EPIDEMIC of Americans adopting Russian children simply to later kill them, we touched on the propaganda angle a little bit - how these events are reported. I thought it might make an interesting thread of it own, so here's another example:

Excerpt from article on 1 TV.ru

Деловые новости на этой неделе слушают даже люди, далекие от акций и фондовых индексов. В редакции этой радиостанции свой показатель глобального кризиса: американский доллар здесь постепенно превращается в выставочный образец. Биржевой игрок с 10-летним опытом, Олег Богданов сравнивает нынешние проблемы американской экономики с Великой депрессией.

English translation for those that don't read Russian
Business news on this week listen to even people, distant from the actions and the fund indexes. In the editorial staff of this radio station its index of the global crisis: American dollar here gradually is converted into the exhibition model. Stock exchange player with the 10-year experience, Oleg Bogdanov compare the present problems of American economy with the Great Depression.

Anyone with other examples of Russian OR American propaganda is encouraged to add it here.

[BillyB]

I remember someone coming to the forum talking about a Russian show that mentioned the terrible things RW go through when marrying a foreigner.

I think the Russian government is trying in multiple ways to discourage their population, young or old, from leaving. The population has been decreasing year after year even though many people are moving into Russia from the other FSU countries.

I wonder how many people believe Oleg Bogdanov's testimony that America is going through another Great Depression? Repeat over and over and keep putting that kind of expert's opinions on TV and the newspapers and people will believe if they hear it enough.

[KenC]

Serebro's post regarding the dead adopted child was a reaction to a very slanted documentary on Russian TV.  Lena and her Mom discuss things like this almost on a daily basis.  And yes, it appears the Russian propaganda machine is running again at almost full speed.  So expect more trollish posts from the misinformed (Serebro & Jazzy)
KenC

[Gator]

In the past I would occasionally read the Russian media (English translation).  I found it interesting albeit slanted, and it did give me some insight into Russian mentality.  The media reports are so absurd now that it has lost all of its utility.  Surely no educated, reasonable Russian could believe it.

Who knows why the government would implement a program of such disinformation?  There is some plan.

So I no longer even bother to look. 

[Serebro]

 
it's not Russian propaganda, it's American paranoia.

as for the shows on the forums of your Russians wives I read about many stories that americans make bad movies about people from around the world, when I was in the USA I saw a TV show about a vietnamese family, me and my Russian friend laughed a lot
the plot:
"

long time ago a poor vietnamese woman had great love with her american boy friend, they had a child and the american troop took the child to the USA with him, so they showed the modern "child"-the woman who looks 40-45 and is ugly, so this woman knows about her vietnamese mom and decides to come and find her, for some reason she calls to a TV crew and decides to make a show about her visit to Vietnam, so she goes to vietnam, they show poor old houses, her poor old mom and the daughter says something like "they all want to go to America with me, I am so dissapointed"...and millions of ignorant fat americans sitting in front of their TVsets shewing pop-corn get excited and say:yeah, we are the best, that's why they all want to come here, f*** them..."

so the daughter takes her things and goes back to the USA alone."..
lovely:))))))

very entertaining

Americans like their country and they adore shows about how great it is.

it reminds me of a soviet propaganda that said that the USSR was the best country and made programms to show how bad capitalist countries were....


that's what your government do with your country now.

you are sure about Russian propaganda, but you don't think about one MAIN thing, and this thing is WHY
The Soviet government HAD the REASON to say the USSR was bad, because they didn't want people to go to the west but went on building "Communism", so they HAD to lie.

What is the purpose in anti-american propaganda NOW when the american embassy works better than any KGB not giving visas to the citizens, what is the PURPOSE in saying bad things about America?!What does the government get by saying that America is bad?!

You may say:yes, but Americans are free, they can read the newspapers and get the news that they want to read, they can travel and know the truth,BUT an ordinary middle class american doesn't want to read or see in the news what happens in the world, he reads only about the USA, the local town or Iraq but every american film maker knows that americans like films and shows about"how great america is and how poor the rest is the world is", so by making more movies of this type they will get more attention, more audience and more money.Many Americans don't travel to other countries, they prefer to take a van and travel around the USA or to Florida, or Las Vegas, sometimes to European countries like France, England  or Italy.

that's simple.

not a candidate will be elected if he says about the problems  the USA has but he will if he promises to make it "more powerful".

Americans are like children, they belive fairy tales and 20 years after the USSR stopped its existance they still think that there are bears walking in the streets, there are many long lines and people starve and are beaten and put to camps by communists.



so this thread proves my impression.

KenC

And yes, it appears the Russian propaganda machine is running again at almost full speed.  So expect more trollish posts from the misinformed (Serebro & Jazzy)

lol, KeNC, you didn't know that Russia had a huge financial crisis in 1998 when you came to meet your Lena and were surprised why so many girls jumped on you trying to get out of their country but you call me and Jazzy uninformed...


Ken, thousands of Russians students go every year to the USA and many other countries, Jazzy is a student, and her husband is English and lives in the west, so I am sure that she is informed not only by media(as he knows both English and Russian)but by her friends and relatives, too.

As for me half of my friends live in the USA, in France and there is also one who lives in Monaco, I have been to the USA myself and I read a lot of online information in 3 languages, so can you call me uninformed?!

yesterday I visited a forum called Russian America

this is a thread about the boy who was killed created by people living in the usa
http://forum.russianamerica.com/f/showthread.php?p=2283665#post2283665

38 pages so far and on one of the pages
the post made by SlipperywhenWet
03-21-2008, 02:48 PM
"Yahoo!News, CNN.com, BBC.com - оставили это происшествие без внимания?"

"Yahoo!News, CNN.com, BBC.com-left the event unnoticed"

I guess it's because "americans don't want to know that they are bad",

so who is uninformed?!

[Serebro]

Gator

The media reports are so absurd now that it has lost all of its utility.  Surely no educated, reasonable Russian could believe it.

of course they believe, I also believe to my ex groupmate living in the usa for 5 years by now who wrote in her letter that when a russian bank goes bancrupt its workers avois avoid you, but theworkers of the  american one just smile and say that "everything is fine" when you lose your money.Thats' the difference.


Gator, do you really believe that the USA doesn't have any problems?!Can you explain why dollar cost around 30 roubles in 2003 and 23 roubles now?!It didn't happen in one day, you know, it's sliding down slowly. How could that happen if CNN says "it's ok".

so if you explain this fact I will be happy.

[I/O]

Might be a good time to inject this little number passed along to me recently (With purpose) by someone I have considerable respect for.

"I think the magic is over." That's what French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner recently said about the United States' global reputation.

It's never been a great idea to rely on the assessments of French politicians, but the daily news coming out of the U.S. — in terms of our image overseas and beyond — does indeed seem bleak.

Oil has climbed over $100 a barrel. Gas is nearing $4 a gallon. Gold is at $1,000 an ounce — a telltale sign the public is losing trust in paper money, stocks and bonds.

Housing prices still slump. Foreclosures are on the rise. The huge Wall Street firm Bear Stearns nearly collapsed before being bought out for a fraction of its former worth.

Seven years ago, the Euro was worth about 90 cents. Now it's soared past $1.50. Staples like wheat and corn cost more than at anytime in our history. Foreign creditors hold $12 trillion in U.S. government securities, the result of decades of staggering trade deficits.

We are still fighting to secure constitutional governments in Afghanistan and Iraq. Iran, contrary to headlines drawn from the recent National Intelligence Estimate, is likely still betting the U.S. can't prevent it from getting the bomb.

No one knows how many illegal aliens are in the United States — 11, 15, 18 million? — only that we can neither go on with open borders nor apparently close them.

Only a third of the public approves of the Bush administration. The ratings of Congress are even lower.

Our self-proclaimed reformers turn out to have feet of clay. New York Gov. Eliot Spitzer made a career of taking on Wall Street greed — in between spending laundered money on high-priced call girls.

Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., promised a new politics of racial healing and political honesty. Yet despite eloquent speeches, he still cannot adequately explain why for 20 years he attended and subsidized a church whose fiery preacher spewed the worst sort of racial hatred and divisiveness.

So, is the "magic over"?

Not quite yet. The remedies for our current maladies require a moderate curbing of our extravagant lifestyle and voracious consumption. Given the vast size of the U.S. economy, we could easily restrain spending and begin paying off our debts at a rapid clip. Inflation and unemployment are still relatively low.

Over ninety-four percent of Americans with home mortgages meet their monthly obligations. More Americans own homes than ever before. More immigrants seek out America than any other nation.

We have not been hit by terrorists in over six years. And, slowly, both Afghanistan and Iraq are showing political progress and declining violence, despite recent suicide bombings.

In a relative sense, our problems pale in comparison to our past world wars and depressions, or those of our current competitors.

Unlike the United States, which is funding democratic change in Afghanistan and Iraq, Russia and China offer only brutal solutions to quench Islamic separatists in Chechnya and Xinjiang province. Neither country can square economic progress with human rights. Both have polluted their natural environment in ways inconceivable here.

Meanwhile, a shrinking Europe is disarmed in a dangerous world and can't assimilate its growing minorities.

We are still the world's third-largest petroleum producer with vast amounts of untouched oil. We have the world's largest coal reserves. Americans could use coal and nuclear power to generate most of our electrical needs and to charge hybrid electric cars.

Our universities remain the world's best, and we lead the world in cutting-edge technological innovation.

American elections are more wide open than ever before. Our next president will either be the first septuagenarian (when taking office), woman or African-American in the job.

America remains a meritocracy where no one is above the law. Unlike so many other places, success is predicated more on ability than race, class, tribe, religion or gender.

So while we exhibit outward symptoms of sickness, our inner constitution — the real barometer of the health of a civilization — is sound.

More importantly, there is a growing sense that Americans want to sacrifice to ensure our pre-eminence. Many conservatives are accepting that they can't just cut taxes without spending limits. And many liberals are seeing that more federal programs mean more dependency and debt for our children.

Divisive race and gender identity politics are becoming tired. A multiracial America in a strife-filled world works. So why copy the tribal separatism and divisions of the former Yugoslavia, Rwanda or most of the Middle East?

Because the United States is so huge, free, wealthy and dynamic, we can cause enormous problems overnight. But by the same token, we can curb these excesses quickly. The solution to so many of the hopeless headlines is entirely in our hands.

I/O

[KenC]

Serebro,
There are many things I do not know and are able to learn from others.  An example is when you informed me that the Russian financial crisis happened in 98.  I had thought that it was a year earlier.  But my mind was open to learn from new facts and better sources of information.

Maybe you could learn to do the same?  To open your mind to the idea that there may be a certain antiAmerican spin to your Russian news?  I am a child of the 60's and 70's, a time of great revolution against our American government.  We learned to challenge the information fed to us and not just accept it on it's face value.  That is one of the great things about democracy, the ability to challenge the government.  Russians never experienced such freedoms so the tendency is just to accept the propaganda fed to them as truths.

A good example of the propaganda is the Russian take on our economy.  To them we are in another great depression the likes of the one in 1929.  It simply is not true.  The US economy has gone through a series of recessions over the years since 1929 without falling into total disaster.  Yet it is an easy concept to feed to Russians because of your much more recent melt down in 98.  There is nothing better for Russia than to think America is falling apart.  You have all too many people ready to play "chicken Little"  (The sky in falling!)

This is not to say that America is not also guilty of the same tactics of passing misinformation or embellishing the ills of Russia.  We know this and acknowledge that.  It is like when Lena first arrived, we both talked many hours about our misconceptions of our respective countries and governments.  After many years living here, Lena now understands that both sides feed misinformation (propaganda) and that the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle.  Open you mind girl!
KenC

[Misha]

this is a thread about the boy who was killed created by people living in the usa
http://forum.russianamerica.com/f/showthread.php?p=2283665#post2283665

38 pages so far and on one of the pages
the post made by SlipperywhenWet
03-21-2008, 02:48 PM
"Yahoo!News, CNN.com, BBC.com - оставили это происшествие без внимания?"

I guess it's because "americans don't want to know that they are bad",

so who is uninformed?!

Serebro, how many children do you think are killed daily around the world? Too many. Do you really think that BBC and CNN are going to send a team of journalists to cover each and every child that is killed and allegedly murdered around the world (the couple still has to be tried and found guilty)? Children, sadly, are killed every day in Russia by their parents. Do the Russian television networks cover each and every death? No, they don't. Children are also killed in Canada. It usually makes the local news, sometimes the provincial news and very rarely the national news. Is it a question of a the media hiding the facts because their viewers don't want to know that they are "bad"? No, it is a question of the media having limited time and resources to cover everything. Likewise, we would not have the time to watch or read about each and every event that occurred in the world. Choices have to be made, and, though the death of one child is always tragic, it does not rate with events such as the recent events in Tibet, the war in Iraq or other such events that are truly of global importance.

[Serebro]

Serebro,
There are many things I do not know and are able to learn from others.  An example is when you informed me that the Russian financial crisis happened in 98.  I had thought that it was a year earlier. 

No, Ken, you didn't know about that event at all.

When I wrote 1998 you told me that it was 1991.
Yes, we had a BIG problem and crisis in 1991 but we had a totally DIFFERENT problem in 1998 and you didn't know about it at all.
If you were going to Russia without knowing that as you were not interested in anything but meeting a pretty lady I guess the rest of americans of your class living in the USA without leaving it at all didn't want to know about Russia, too.

Maybe you could learn to do the same?  To open your mind to the idea that there may be a certain antiAmerican spin to your Russian news?

WHY?!
what do they get by saying that America is bad and has a crisis?!

60% of the movies we see on free television are made in the USA, people can travel and any kind of lie will cause the opposite effect, people got used to the thing that their government had lied to them and used them for more than 70 years, every time they notice something like that, any contradiction with what they really see when they or their friends travel they get angry and stop believing the news or governement at all.

so what will the government get by telling lies?!

[Gator]

Serebro,

Please go to this site and enter "Russia" in the Search function.

http://www.nytimes.com/

How many articles do you see that bash Russia and present distorted information?

This newspaper is one of the most widely read in America and has received a great numer of journalistic awards.

[Serebro]

Serebro, how many children do you think are killed daily around the world? Too many. Do you really think that BBC and CNN are going to send a team of journalists to cover each and every child that is killed and allegedly murdered around the world Choices have to be made, and, though the death of one child is always tragic, it does not rate with events such as the recent events in Tibet, the war in Iraq or other such events that are truly of global importance.

OK, let's try
http://edition.cnn.com/

so what are the top news at the moment?!
let's see...
NEW YORK, (AP) -- The ex-wife of French President Nicolas Sarkozy tied the knot Sunday night at the famed Rainbow Room in New York's Rockefeller Center
that's the most important event in the world of course!!!!!!

UK singer's husband found dead

all i want to know is about husbands and grandparents of UK singers

Colombia:Ecuadorian killed in raid

I agree, you are right, the 14-th murder of a Russian child is nothing in comparison with discussion of the wedding dress and the engagement ring of the ex wife of the French president.
 
how could I think of it as of a more important event

[Serebro]

Gator, thank you but I asked you to explain why this happens with dollar.if the country has a good political and economical situation this doesn't happen with its currency.
An event like a war in Iraq will not cause it, it will not destroy the position of such a powerful country and its currency, it's only one of the reasons.

So what are the other reasons? Can you name them or your government doesn't inform you of it?

[Misha]

OK, let's try
http://edition.cnn.com/

so what are the top news at the moment?!
let's see...
NEW YORK, (AP) -- The ex-wife of French President Nicolas Sarkozy tied the knot Sunday night at the famed Rainbow Room in New York's Rockefeller Center
that's the most important event in the world of course!!!!!!

I agree, you are right, the 14-th murder of a Russian child is nothing in comparison with discussion of the wedding dress and the engagement ring of the ex wife of the French president.
 
how could I think of it as of a more important event

Again, there are likely hundreds of children killed around the world every week. Do you expect the international media to cover each and every alleged murder? Is the fact that this is the 14th murder significant? Is this rate higher than the national average? 14 children being killed is sad, but as others have been telling you this has to be understood in the context of tens of thousands of children being adopted.

[Serebro]

gabaub

Again, there are likely hundreds of children killed around the world every week. Do you expect the international media to cover each and every alleged murder?

they sent a group of journalists to have a look at the dress of the ex wife of the president of France or at the dead husband of some UK singer and at the boy the bullies like to beat up repeatedly(Gator's link
http://www.nytimes.com/pages/national/index.html?adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1206374459-BFRxQ2Q6V2EFJD+pANscWw

but they didn't find ...time.. money or journalists to write about another boy tortured and killed in the USA and about the intention of Russia to restrict the rules of adoption for foreign citizens that may be important for childless couples who were going to adopt a child from Russia...

[KenC]

No, Ken, you didn't know about that event at all.

When I wrote 1998 you told me that it was 1991.
Yes, we had a BIG problem and crisis in 1991 but we had a totally DIFFERENT problem in 1998 and you didn't know about it at all.

That is not quite true, Serebro.  I was familar that the economic crisis happened much later than 91 and thought is was in 97 to be honest.  Here is the exchange on my T/R thread:

2/8/08 #97
October, 1998, it was just after that big "money crush" that we had and time when people were commiting suicides after losing all their money, the prices were close to the sky, the shops were closed and people didn't know what to do.....

2/8/08 #99

Serebro,
Are you sure the "money crash" was around October 98?  I thought it was earlier.

2/8/08 #102

I stand corrected!  Serebro, you were right.

If you were going to Russia without knowing that as you were not interested in anything but meeting a pretty lady I guess the rest of americans of your class living in the USA without leaving it at all didn't want to know about Russia, too.

You know what?  Besides this being a "cheap shot" on your part, who cares?  I never intended to emigrate to Russia, nor study Russian economics.  I went to meet a RW.  I had some background regarding Russia due to my Russian family and learned more about the Motherland via my wife.  I am not the one here pretending to know your country better than you, as you are to us Americans.
KenC
 

[Misha]

Serebro, given that you are so interested in what the media has to say, below are a few Russian sources in English that look at the issue of orphans. I have pasted a few excerpts and highlighted a few passages that I find relevant. They show how much Russians in Russia "love" their orphans and are concerned about their well-being.

Changing Russia's approach to orphans

MOSCOW. (RIA Novosti political commentator Marianna Belenkaya) - Child abandonment is one of Russia's worst problems. Nobody knows how many children with living parents have landed in orphanages, or, still worse, on the streets.

The figure is between 700,000 and 800,000 - more than the Soviet Union had after World War II. Is there anything that can be done about it?

It is not possible to resolve the problem by treating its symptoms instead of its causes. This was the unanimous opinion of participants in a news conference on the contribution of the public and the media to reducing child abandonment, held in Moscow on April 19 and attended by representatives of orphanages and charity organizations.

Participants in the news conference noted that life for orphans is particularly hard when they leave state-run orphanages at the age of 18. Only 10% find a place in life, whereas 90% live below the poverty line. Most of them are completely lost on their own, and have no idea how to build a family. Experts maintain that a considerable part of Russian adults who grew up in orphanages are unhappy in their personal life, and quite often abandon their own children.

Participants in the news conference emphasized that this was not the only headache; society turns its back on orphans and does not want to hear about their problems. They cited the results of a poll conducted recently in downtown Moscow. When asked about their attitude to orphans, out of 1,000 respondents, 999 said the problem had nothing to do with them.

Experts pointed out that despite its commitments to orphans, the state cannot smooth their transition from the orphanage to the outside world, teach them to love and be responsible. The public should help. It makes sense to develop ways of caring for these children other than orphanages, preferably based on an individual approach: family homes, villages, churches, foster care and adoption.

Development of these systems is also important because of the 270,000 orphans living in state-run homes, Russian families adopt only 7,000 a year; the figure for foreigners is about the same. What is the lot of all the others?

Source: http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20070425/64385254.html

40,000 Russian adoptees in America

There are many reasons why foreigners adopt Russian children. And while readers of this newspaper may easily see why, these reasons sometimes baffle Russians. Some Russians were suspicious even of Gerhard Schroeder, the former German chancellor, when he adopted two orphans from St. Petersburg.

Every drama that involves Russian children adopted abroad arouses a storm of emotion in their former country. Fourteen Russian children have been driven to death or killed by their foreign adoptive parents in the last 15 years. Many think they were adopted with evil intentions and would have been safer even in an orphanage in their homeland. This is understandable. Americans or Western Europeans would be equally outraged if such a fate befell their country’s children in Russia.

The public mood is, of course, all too often determined by ignorance and biased information. Information today is a commodity to be sold – and it sells all the quicker with tragedy and sensation.

Then again, it is true that Russia is facing a demographic crisis. With far fewer births than deaths, the country is supposed to hold every child precious – including orphans. “They are our strategic reserve,” says a patriotic lady member of parliament.

...

The Education Ministry authorized the foreign adoption of disabled orphans. This was a token qualification as adverse conditions meant that many children in orphanages suffered, if not from disease, then from hereditary health problems or repressed development. Foreigners, for their part, often adopted delicate children, the most miserable of all.

At that time, I met an American couple from Connecticut. They had just completed the adoption formalities to take home little Ilyas, an orphan from a small Siberian town. The boy was 8 months old. He was born with one hand missing, and his shocked mother gave him up. There was no need to ask why they were taking on such a burden—I saw them all together, a loving family.

Adoptions were chaotic and uncontrolled in a country infested by self-styled “mediators”—both individuals and organizations. In an effort to impose some order on this free-for-all, a bill was drafted to prohibit independent (unmediated) adoptions and introduce mediator accreditation. It burned along with other papers when the Parliament House was shelled during the suppression of the mutiny of the fall of 1993. The matter was not taken up again until 2000. Russia has changed since then. Surging oil prices have brought affluence, and there are now many charities helping orphans.

Nonetheless, there are even more orphans and abandoned children needing help. The number of orphanages has doubled since the early 1990s, with a current total of 230,000 orphans living in the facilities.

The federal database has 172,000 files of children eligible for adoption. Earlier this year children’s grants were increased considerably in order to promote motherhood and adoptions. More orphans are finding guardians or foster parents, but the number of adoptions is increasing only slightly. With an average of 130,000 newly orphaned or abandoned children registered every year, these efforts are just a drop in the ocean. Why, then, is Russia so dogged in its opposition to international adoptions?

First, it wants to bring the matter into order. Since this year, adoption agencies can be accredited only after checks by five ministries, rather than the previous one. So far only 17 agencies have qualified.

A bill prohibiting independent adoptions will be debated by parliament soon.

Russia is willing to make bilateral agreements with interested countries, starting with Italy, France and Spain, to guarantee adoptees’ rights. Dealing with the United States will be more complicated, as separate agreements will be necessary with each state.

Education Ministry experts deny that the new legislation will lead to a considerable increase in adoptive parents’ expenses, as the agreements promise greater transparency, and in the case of certain countries – France and Italy in particular – the government will take on part of payments itself.

Second, Russia will soon reform its guardianship agencies in order to reduce child abandonment and encourage foster families.

Third, a majority of Russians regard foreign adoptions as a national embarrassment. Many demand they be prohibited, or at least suspended. Public prosecutors have checked orphanages in every part of the country for procedural violations.

The number of foreign adoptions has drastically fallen this year even though foreigners, unlike Russians, adopt adolescents, children of alcoholic, syphilitic and HIV-positive parents, as well as children with congenital deformities. They also adopt siblings, while Russians prefer one child.

I recently heard about an American couple, who came to Russia to adopt a child from an orphanage for mentally and physically disabled children, based near Moscow. At the age of seven, Sasha looked no older than four, and had bad speech problems. Adoption proceedings were about to start when the couple found out that the boy had two sisters in another orphanage. One was eight years old, and the other thirteen. They decided to adopt all three. As they later learned, the children were taken to the orphanage after their grandmother was brutally murdered in front of them.

Now, six months after the children found their new home, Sasha speaks fluent English. The eldest girl has problems but, at any rate, she has given up smoking and does sports.

Not every story has a fairy tale ending. Some international adoptions are dramatic. Both children and their adoptive parents are at the mercy not only of laws and treaties but also of officials, who occasionally abuse their duties, bully adopters and are prejudiced against orphans. It is these mediators, judges and orphanage principals who settle the fate of foreign and Russian adopters. Don’t think Russians have it any easier when adopting an orphan. They encounter just as many barriers as foreigners.

The main thing Russia must do is to change the public attitude to children, and learn to see them as the greatest hope and of immeasureable value—as they are to every nation. Only then will orphans have a real chance to be happy in a new home.

As I was writing this, I looked through photos the Connecticut family had mailed me. Ilyas is ten years old now. The pictures show him playing football with friends, walking to school and sitting with his adoptive parents. They all look happy, and the boy appears to have adapted well despite his missing hand. They never concealed his Russian origins from him. Some day, he may ask his adoptive parents about his family back in Siberia. Many children brought up in American families now seek their relatives in Russia. -

A list of overseas adoption agencies accredited in Russia is available on the website
www.adopt-in-russia.ru

Facts

The United States leads the list of foreign adoptions, with Spain, Italy, France, Germany, Ireland and Israel following.

Approximate adoption fees: $20,000-30,000 through agencies, and $12,000-15,000 through mediators (according to the press).

About the author

“There is information and then there is propaganda. It’s the difference between reporting events and carrying out somebody’s will. I report impartially from the point of view of a person who observes and draws conclusions.” This is the creed of the noted Russian television and radio presenter Svetlana Sorokina.

Although Svetlana speaks about herself as being very tough, her friends say she is gentle and kind. She may look unapproachable – prim suits, serious topics – but she is also cheerful. Today, she says, it is her adopted daughter Tonya who is her biggest inspiration.

Source: http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20080107/94769724.html

[Serebro]

I never intended to emigrate to Russia, nor study Russian economics.  I went to meet a RW.  I had some background regarding Russia due to my Russian family and learned more about the Motherland via my wife.  I am not the one here pretending to know your country better than you, as you are to us Americans.
KenC
 

so this just proves my theory that most americans who aren't intended to migrate or study economics are uninformed but still likes to write about the things that they know nothing of.

so next time you start calling someone misinformed or uninformed or about propaganda try to know something about it but not only the things you know on your trip too meet a beautiful girl.

[Gator]

Serebro wrote,

next time you start calling someone misinformed or uninformed or about propaganda try to know something about it

What Russians write about Russia is beyond my area of expertise unless it was an article about American men dating Russian women.  What Russians write about America is probably within my area of expertise because I live here.  Will you not admit the reverse?  Assuming you do, if several Americans (and a Canadian or two) tell you that the Russian press shows a pattern of reporting propaganda regarding America, why do you say we are wrong and your press is correct?

Jet called it a propaganda war.  It is not a war if only one party is engaged in the tactic and the other ignores it and goes about business as usual.  That was the purpose of my asking you to search American press accounts of Russia.  I saw nothing in the recent archives that bashed Russia, nothing as in NOTHING.  Unlike Russian media, our media is not owned/controlled by government and are free to print what they choose.

I have a question that is best answered by a Russian.  What is the Russian government’s future objective requiring media bashing as one tactic of its overall strategy? 

[KenC]

so this just proves my theory that most americans who aren't intended to migrate or study economics are uninformed but still likes to write about the things that they know nothing of.

so next time you start calling someone misinformed or uninformed or about propaganda try to know something about it but not only the things you know on your trip too meet a beautiful girl.

Serebro,
Your statement makes no sense at all.  My disinterst in Russia, has no bearing on the validitiy of the misinformation of America that you spout here.
 
KenC

[BC]

Serebro wrote,
What Russians write about Russia is beyond my area of expertise unless it was an article about American men dating Russian women.  What Russians write about America is probably within my area of expertise because I live here.  Will you not admit the reverse?  Assuming you do, if several Americans (and a Canadian or two) tell you that the Russian press shows a pattern of reporting propaganda regarding America, why do you say we are wrong and your press is correct?

Jet called it a propaganda war.  It is not a war if only one party is engaged in the tactic and the other ignores it and goes about business as usual.  That was the purpose of my asking you to search American press accounts of Russia.  I saw nothing in the recent archives that bashed Russia, nothing as in NOTHING.  Unlike Russian media, our media is not owned/controlled by government and are free to print what they choose.

I have a question that is best answered by a Russian.  What is the Russian government’s future objective requiring media bashing as one tactic of its overall strategy? 

Gator,

In all fairness maybe we should ask Serebro if ORT or other 'official' news channel provides transcripts.  If so translate news from one a random date and see what the result is.  I watch most days and get the 'jist' of what is being said with my limited RU but can't consider it 'bashing'.

At least we're not talking 'show news' as in Fox or Good morning America..

[Misha]

I watch most days and get the 'jist' of what is being said with my limited RU but can't consider it 'bashing'.

It is not overt bashing, but it is a much more subtle process whereby a certain image of foreigners is being cultivated. There was no need to bash, simply to lead the viewers in the right direction. Serebro reminds me of my wife's uncles. The first time I met one of her uncles was in the morning when he dropped by his sister's apartment (i.e. my mother-in-laws place) still drunk from the night before. I was introduced and told him that I was Canadian. He then went off on a tirade on how we "Americans" were responsible for the fall of the Soviet Union.... Given the context, it is not even necessary to bash. All you need is a subtle headline stating that Another Russian child was killed by Americans" and this will set off an emotional reaction as it justifies preexisting anger and hatred.

Again, there is no need to bash. I will give another example. The last time I was in Russia, I was listening to the radio. They had a program where they were discussion "sex slaves." They were providing statistics about the problem in Europe and America. At no point, did they talk about Russia and the number of "sex slaves" in Russia and the number of women from Moldavia or Ukraine or other countries that might be stuck in less than pleasant circumstances in Moscow and other places in Russia. They were not bashing, but they were very subtly driving their point home that Russian women leaving to go overseas risk ending up as sex slaves in Europe and America.

[Makkin]

  Me thinks it's too late to help the girl who is about 27-28 years old and has been induced already to a permanent adult state due to factors of culture and expectations. Let's not forget at age 27 for an fsu female the risks are greater and one must choose quickly and make fast a plan or yesss the babushka life awaits.
  
  If you choose to indulge her prop. then two or three things will happen...(1) she will say she has learned and simply wait in the weeds to attack on new subject later. (2) Her talk will become more insane as it is already reached the crossroads level..lol (3) She may realize her education and perceptions of the world are not too good......(This will never happen publicly).

  What we have here is a failure to communicate in a way that is clear for her. She has a lot of rabbit in her blood and she's gonna "run" with the propoganda. Maybe a few days in solitaire will cure it or maybe an egg eating contest....

Makkin
  

[BC]

 Me thinks it's too late to help the girl who is about 27-28 years old and has been induced already to a permanent adult state due to factors of culture and expectations. Let's not forget at age 27 for an fsu female the risks are greater and one must choose quickly and make fast a plan or yesss the babushka life awaits.
  
  If you choose to indulge her prop. then two or three things will happen...(1) she will say she has learned and simply wait in the weeds to attack on new subject later. (2) Her talk will become more insane as it is already reached the crossroads level..lol (3) She may realize her education and perceptions of the world are not too good......(This will never happen publicly).

  What we have here is a failure to communicate in a way that is clear for her. She has a lot of rabbit in her blood and she's gonna "run" with the propoganda. Maybe a few days in solitaire will cure it or maybe an egg eating contest....

Makkin
  

Makkin,

Stick to principles and not personalities.  Try contributing to the subject for a change.

We can discuss personalities all day long and get nowhere - guaranteed.

Some may feel (and some do) that I am a total @sshole, but hey, what's that got to do with anything..

I can disagree with Serebro or anyone else for that matter but it don't do me any good.  I'd rather get to the meat of the matter regardless..

[BC]

Serebro, given that you are so interested in what the media has to say, below are a few Russian sources in English that look at the issue of orphans. I have pasted a few excerpts and highlighted a few passages that I find relevant. They show how much Russians in Russia "love" their orphans and are concerned about their well-being.

gebaub,

Good find.

Considering the 'state of the FSUnion' today, I hope that newfound prosperity works it's way down to those truly in need, mainly those that cannot control what happens around them.

I remember well many reports from countries where starvation is a part of life.. It's always the children that are first to go... sad but true.

I hope the fervor that Serebro shows for this subject will ultimately become table talk and that some progress will be noted by the kids involved.