Interested in everyone's thoughts ...

[Misha]

That is missing my point.   I'm just saying that this is an expensive venture, and there is a minimum income needed to support an international search and marriage. 

No, I am not missing the point, but you seem to be missing mine. It all comes down to the dynamic that exists in the couple. I know a young married couple. He is a student and works part-time as a clerk. She started working immediately in Canada. He warned her in advance that he is not rich and they would have to live very modestly. However, she loves him and understood this from the beginning. Is this not a better marriage than the one-week-wonders who earn the $60,000 "minimum" and the wife is eagerly awaiting for her two years to be up so she can divorce him? Each couple is different. The important thing, IMHO, is that the man he honest and up front with his prospective wife.

[Simoni]

No, I am not missing the point, but you seem to be missing mine. It all comes down to the dynamic that exists in the couple. I know a young married couple. He is a student and works part-time as a clerk. She started working immediately in Canada. He warned her in advance that he is not rich and they would have to live very modestly. However, she loves him and understood this from the beginning. Is this not a better marriage than the one-week-wonders who earn the $60,000 "minimum" and the wife is eagerly awaiting for her two years to be up so she can divorce him? Each couple is different. The important thing, IMHO, is that the man he honest and up front with his prospective wife.

Huh?  What in the world?

I'm talking in the abstract; you are thinking of an example.  Of course I agree with you in your example.  And remember, I wrote...

Exceptions exist, but they are not the norm, in my opinion.

The fact is that it would be very hard to be successful in this venture with an income of less than $20,000.  The search is expensive, and when you find her, she may have children.   She will likely not be able to work or earn much money in the US.

I am a dreamer, but a realist at times too.  This is one of those times.

[Eduard]

Guys, I think you midded the point that I was making about self-employed people who make a lot more but after taking all deductions it may be under the 17K threshhold. Just the home-office deduction reduces AGI on your 1040 drastically! Remember that it also allows you to depreciate your home depreciate any equipment you have and vehicles just to name a few. W-2 people don't have that and when a W-w person is reporting income of $45K a selfemplyed person might only show 12K AGI when in reality they make the same money.
These numbers are not exact and I'm just using them as an example to make a point. But I think they are pretty close.

[Misha]

I am a dreamer, but a realist at times too.  This is one of those times.

I am also a realist, but have also seen how men will marry women they barely know. I have also read how the Russian women on the discussion forums whine constantly that they are at home bored, that their husbands don't understand them and how they are not happy in their gilded cages. For one, I would put my money on the husband who earns less but took the time to know his future wife as USC Fan wants to do, than the richer one-week-wonder who barely learns the name of his fiancée before filling out the paperwork for the fiancée visa.

[Faux Pas]

Faux Pas,
With all due respect to Groov and Simoni, I do not think you can be that finite about the costs involved.  So much depends upon the area where you live and of course lifestyle too.  Cost of living is going to be different from Fremont, Indiana than it is is in Manhatten for example.  So use the $60K as a conversation starter because you can certainly get it done for less, but it may not be pretty.  Take a look at the FAQS section as I do believe good ol jb outline the costs rather well.
KenC

KenC,

I read it and agree with it. One underlying point that was made is it takes a very big commitment along with ample monetary resources to make it happen. I agree with that also. I would venture to guess that just as many or more of these relationships fail because of money as any other type problems. Domestic relationships do too. 60K as a conversation starter perhaps. Obviously, the more money one has or earns, the easier the logistics. But it is misleading to state a 60K threshold.

[FredC]

I'll take this thread a little back on point. I too have been looking at the possibility of working in Ukraine. Though for me the conditions would be totally different. I would be working for a U.S. company that has the contract of repairing the containment at Chernobyl, I know I know, but it is my area of expertise. I look at it as a chance to spend long term time getting to know my lady, also just the adventure of living elsewhere. So USC I say take the leap while you can and whatever God has planned for you will eventually show itself. Just MHO. Whatever you decide, good luck.

[Eduard]

I am also a realist, but have also seen how men will marry women they barely know. I have also read how the Russian women on the discussion forums whine constantly that they are at home bored, that their husbands don't understand them and how they are not happy in their gilded cages. For one, I would put my money on the husband who earns less but took the time to know his future wife as USC Fan wants to do, than the richer one-week-wonder who barely learns the name of his fiancée before filling out the paperwork for the fiancée visa.

I totally agree with you! I read some of those posts on Russian forums and it is clear to me that WM marry women that they don't get to know on a deeper level, basically just offering RW financial security with nothing much in terms of similar interests, cultural understanding, values, goals, etc.
Your Russian is good, so you can understand what those women are saying on Russian forums. I'm a native Russian speaker so obviously I read those sometimes and understand what's going on. Some men get lucky and marry a good match. But regretfully the majority don't and go through a painful divorce. Unless you are fluent in Russian or the RW is fluent in your language (I mean fluent, "speaks some english" won't do) or you hire a damn good interpretor/matchmaker who will guide, advise and interpret you will be playing a proverbial Russian Roulette. Yes, money is important to live on, but as long as you have enough for basics a good woman that marries you for you and not for financial security and what she can get from you, will stay with you and will be your friend, lover and life partner.
Get to know your woman well! Be honest about your social and financial status, don't missrepresent yourself! Understand where she stands on vital issues before you file the K-1!

[Turboguy]

Hum, sometimes you read something that makes you feel old.  When I was in "Basic Training" the pay was $ 67.00 a month for an E-1 and went up to $ 75.00 when you got promoted to E-2.   That was back when there was a draft and you had no choice.

In the early stages of marriage I would say that chasing RW was cheaper than being married to one.  Every month there seems to be something.  Wedding costs one month.  AOS the next.   $ 5,000 for learning to drive expense the next (don't read as lessons, read as wreck while getting experience)   Bringing the MIL for a visit the next.   I sure am not complaining, it is worth every penny, but marrying a RW is a lot more expensive then marrying an AW.   Being happily married to a RW is far better than being unhappily married to an AW even if it is more expensive.   It is worth every penny.  I do think the extra expenses will end soon.  Lets see, we have a car for her coming up and who knows what else is ahead.   

[Phil dAmore]

Just to get back on topic for a moment:

USC, if you are still reading this you might want to check this page out:

http://www.visarus.co.uk/directory/schools/Saint%20Petersburg.htm

Reviews of every major and minor school in St. Petersburg, written by people who actually worked or attended the school.

Operated by a friend of mine who has been known to give a school a poor rating even if they are one of his advertisers.

[groovlstk]

I am also a realist, but have also seen how men will marry women they barely know. I have also read how the Russian women on the discussion forums whine constantly that they are at home bored, that their husbands don't understand them and how they are not happy in their gilded cages. For one, I would put my money on the husband who earns less but took the time to know his future wife as USC Fan wants to do, than the richer one-week-wonder who barely learns the name of his fiancée before filling out the paperwork for the fiancée visa.

Gabaub, you're one of the guys here with whom I happen to agree almost 100% of the time, but I think here you're confusing apples and oranges. Any guy - whether filthy rich, middle class, or beyond - has an obligation to know his woman before doing a K1. In my opinion most guys underestimate the challenge of educating a RW on finances and fail to resolve that issue in the time it most needs to be done: before she steps on a plane. I also believe that for a guy below that 60k salary range, this issue is paramount. (And let me clarify my stance on that: in my original post, I cited 60k as a threshold for guys w/out substantial holdings. Obviously, if a guy is debt-free, owns his own home outright, doesn't report all of his income, or has significant investments, it's a different game.)

There are two factors at play here:
1) Immigration costs and miscellaneous expenses like English lessons can be very high in the first year, and most or all of that time she won't be able to work so the guy has to man up. You cited an example earlier of a very wise guy whose wife understood their finances and began working immediately. In the US, at least, it's pretty extraordinary if a woman begins working within 6 months of arrival (can any of the other married vets chime in here w/their experience on this timeline?) The way I see it, even if a couple marries and files AOS after one month in the US, they still have to wait for her EAD card, which takes about two months from application. Once she has her EAD, she can look for work but her prospects are limited until she has her green card and employers know she's here to stay.
2) Western finances are a big mystery for most FSU women. If you tell your fiancee your annual salary, you'd better clue her in on gross vs. net. As you know most FSU people don't pay taxes and she'll likely be shocked to learn that Uncle Sam takes a good % of your gross. School must also be in session for credit and debt, she'll likely have some very black and white (and very incorrect) assumptions about both.

I know we've hashed out these discussions a lot in the past (I think Anastassia started a long thread on it months ago) and I don't relish telling anyone, "you don't make enough $$ to be involved in this game," but I also believe that this is one part of the process that can't be fudged and any guy who thinks it's OK to shoot first and worry about finances later is in for a very rough ride in the first year, which is also the time his wife will be feeling the greatest stress as she tries to acclimate herself to a new life.

[Misha]

There are two factors at play here:
1) Immigration costs and miscellaneous expenses like English lessons can be very high in the first year, and most or all of that time she won't be able to work so the guy has to man up. You cited an example earlier of a very wise guy whose wife understood their finances and began working immediately. In the US, at least, it's pretty extraordinary if a woman begins working within 6 months of arrival (can any of the other married vets chime in here w/their experience on this timeline?)

The point that I am trying to make is that there is often a focus on "minimum salary," rather than "minimum time required to know a woman." I want to emphasize the importance of communication before the marriage. If a woman knows what she is getting into and agrees to accept it, then that is her choice. What is important for the man is to be honest and not deceive his future wife. If he lives in a trailer, for example, he should tell her. If she understand what that entails and is happy with that, then hey more power to both of them.

Yes, there are costs, but from my Canadian perspective they are not that much. Immigration costs: if you fill out all the paperwork yourself, the cost of immigration is roughly $1,000 in government fees (give or take a couple hundred dollars) and a few hundred dollars for the medical exam. Then, throw in a couple hundred more for translation costs.

Here, all immigrants (including sponsored wives) can attend government-sponsored English-language classes for free. My wife has been attending classes at the local immigrant services centre this past year and the quality of the classes is exceptional.

Living costs: one way or another a man has to pay for a place to live and has to buy food. If anything I am saving money since I got married: I eat at home, we buy in bulk and prepare all our food from scratch (salted cabbage, homemade pelmeni, soups we cook ourselves, etc.). We eat well and spend very little on food. If anything, getting married for me was a huge cost savings LOL.

As for jobs, Canada is doing quite well. It is quite easy for somebody to find a job. My wife started looking not too long ago for a job, something to get out of the house during her spring break at school. She found within days a job at a restaurant and worked a couple of weeks. She did not like it, so I told her to quit. If we had needed the money, then she would likely have kept the job. If we were to look a bit harder, I am sure we could find something better.

What else? Phone calls to Russia? I use jajah.com and we spend maybe $10 a week on calls. Trips to Russia? Ideally my wife would like to go back every couple of years. If you buy a cheap ticket, it will cost $1,300 to get to Moscow and then a couple hundred dollars by train to her city. It is not cheap, but hardly a huge expense if she goes every second year.

[groovlstk]

Unless you are fluent in Russian or the RW is fluent in your language (I mean fluent, "speaks some english" won't do) or you hire a damn good interpretor/matchmaker who will guide, advise and interpret you will be playing a proverbial Russian Roulette.

Eduard, at the risk of turning this thread into another advertisement, any married guy will tell you there is a LOT more to meeting a decent woman than having an advisor or matchmaker. My wife did (and does not) speak English fluently, when I met her she was a 3, at best, on a scale of 5. I can tell you one thing (and listen up here, newbs): If I had shown up in Moscow with an "advisor" or matchmaker for our first meeting, she'd have dismissed me as a weakling who couldn't handle his own business.

[I/O]

The thread is wondering hither and yon, but to address the authors question, if he is thinking of going for an adventure trip. Why not? We only pass this way once. If he is thinking of basing the whole thing on finding a life partner, then IMO he's nuts.

I/O

[ISORW]

If we are going to talk about finances, which are relevant if a bit off topic, then another factor needs to be considered here.  I just spent 5 days in Kyiv (I am in Ukraine for a month) and the one thing I noticed that would apply to St Pete and Moscow as well - the women in these cities are accustomed to a bit higher standard of living than in the smaller towns and cities of the FSU.      It may be more difficult to find a woman who is willing to lower here standard of living from St Pete to the US if the guy does not make a decent salary.  I'm sure it's going to be quite possible to date a lot of women in St Pete, but I'm not sure if what will happen when one is presented with the prospect of relocating to the US - what will she expect in terms of finances, standard of living, etc...

[KenC]

The thread is wondering hither and yon, but to address the authors question, if he is thinking of going for an adventure trip. Why not? We only pass this way once. If he is thinking of basing the whole thing on finding a life partner, then IMO he's nuts.

I/O

I/O,
Fist of all I think that the expenses the man will face one he returns home with his bride, is very much on topic.  Sort of an outlook of what the original poster will eventually face.

Secondly, I would like to know why you think living in Russia is a bad way to find a good RW?  Care to explain?
KenC

[Gator]

The thread is wondering hither and yon, but to address the authors question, if he is thinking of going for an adventure trip. Why not? We only pass this way once. If he is thinking of basing the whole thing on finding a life partner, then IMO he's nuts.

Yes.  I/O is wise. 

I usually give advice to those embarking on the one week trip to discover RW.  What you anticipate is something entirely different.  In fact, it takes me down memory lane, and my lane is long.  So, allow me to project from my own life experiences and suggest there are five good goals for doing this:

1.  Experiencing an international travel adventure lasting several months instead of a week or two.

2.  Meeting some interesting people and becoming close friends with a few.

3.  Enjoying the company of many fine women.  While one of whom could eventually be a life partner, it would be best if you did not have this goal as I will explain.

4.  Taking a break in life (from life) if one feels he is in a rut, in a rebound, etc.

5.  Last but most important, learning to live on less money than he has been making and not having as many material possesions, thereby discovering what is essential to his life and what is just baggage through the journey of life.

So this is about examining your life as you have never done before, and taking the time to change it.

Been there, done that, glad I did.  Two years in the Middle East.  It was fun and enlightening, but not something to continue.   The world is round so most of us end up where we started if we keep moving.  Nevertheless, when I returned I was a forever changed man.

USCFan, if you do this, try to make it a new life.  Get rid of your old habits such as keeping up with USC sports.  Do you think you can do that?  I did my two years well before Internet, with no international TV, and films only in a language I could not begin to understand.  Communication was by postal mail.  I ate local food.  I learned new sports (tennis and ski).   I read books.   I avoided people who complained or who longed for their home. I became close friends with some interesting and intelligent Europeans. 

I purposefully avoided exclusive relationships with women, and while it was the Middle East I rarely went without a date and there were women who wanted a closer relationship.  Why?  I cleared my mind of clutter and made sure not to add more.  An exclusive relationship with another woman during something such as this only adds confusion and makes you not search inside yourself, even if she were educated and experienced in the world's philosophies.

Life has blessed me in so many ways, and I have done so much.  Looking back, those two years were some of my happiest and certainly the most enlightening.

One exception for me - while I accomplished all five purposes above, I made a good income while doing it.  Thus, when I returned home I had a large sum of start-up capital for my next life because I still did No. 5 above (I had lived like a student) and saved all of my income.  When I returned, I started a business, built a house, married, and had children. 

If I had not been saving money for my future, I dot not know if I would have stayed at it for two years.  Nevertheless, I met many men (and some women) doing exactly that with a small income and living contently.  In fact. most lived better than me as I indeed was frugal.  These were mainly Brits, sons of ex-colonialists and the like, much more diverse (odd) than Americans back home.  It is important to meet such world journeymen, not necessarily to emulate them but to discuss life from different perspectives and to challenge your prior beliefs.

There are other ways to examine your life.  You could do as one of my business partners who went to a Buddhist monastery in Nepal.  The monks led him high into the mountains to a precipice.  Nothing there but ice, wind, a view from the top of the world. and a wooden lean-to built among the rocks.  They gave him a sleeping bag and 7 lemons, then left.  No books, no candles, nothing else.  One week later they returned.  He said it was enlightening.  However, he returned to his old ways soon thereafter.  In contrast, I never returned fully to my old ways.

[USCFAN]

I really appreciate everyone that has contributed so far ... Phil and Gator, great posts 

A quick side thought ... it wouldn't HAVE to be St. Pete. There would be opportunities in Ukraine as well, like Odessa. The pay would be a little less, but since I would looking to supplement my income anyway, the difference might be negligible.

- STEVE -

[Eduard]

Eduard, at the risk of turning this thread into another advertisement, any married guy will tell you there is a LOT more to meeting a decent woman than having an advisor or matchmaker. My wife did (and does not) speak English fluently, when I met her she was a 3, at best, on a scale of 5. I can tell you one thing (and listen up here, newbs): If I had shown up in Moscow with an "advisor" or matchmaker for our first meeting, she'd have dismissed me as a weakling who couldn't handle his own business.

Let's pretend that I am not married to a decent RW, what exactly would "any married guy" tell me that I already don't know? If there is only limited communication how do you know if a woman is decent, how does she know that you are decent, that you have much in common to go on a life journey together. How do you know that? I read somewhere that more than  80% of WM+RW marriages end up in divorce (don't ask me for the source, can't remember now and can't guarantee that it's correct, but from what I see around me it sounds just about right) I think that you are doing a disservice to people telling them that doing it "your way" is the only way and Russian women wouldn't somehow like it if you had an interpretor with you on the first couple of dates. In my experience it is quite the opposite. Women can be themselves, speak freely, without straining their brain for a few hours and actually truly understand each other a 100% and not just 25%...IMO when they speak only a little most of the time when you think you are understanding each other in reality you are missunderstanding each other. And in many cases these missunderstandings can bring an end to a budding relationship...
Back on Topic:
Steve, IMO if you need to get away and start a new life in Russia, basically move there, live there, apply for citizenship - then go for it. Most likely you will meet a good woman within a couple of years and date a few just for fun before then. You will probably learn to speak some basic Russian in a couple of years to be able to communicate somewhat.
What Gator said makes a lot of sense, I would listen to his advice.
But if you are thinking of this as just a temporary get away to clear your mind and you are planning to come back to the USA and bring a woman here I would seriously consider everything I wrote in my earlier posts. You might be kicking yourself in the a$$ if you go there, just happen to meet a magnificent woman that you totally think is "The One". Then try to bring her back to the US and have to deal with all the BS of showing last years 1040, etc. etc. waiting for a couple of years for her to get here, and if something happens within these 2 years and your relationship will fall apart you will be back to square one...but heart broken and a couple of years older... well you asked for different oppinions and this is mine.

[Admin]

Let's pretend that I am not married to a decent RW, what exactly would "any married guy" tell me that I already don't know? If there is only limited communication how do you know if a woman is decent, how does she know that you are decent, that you have much in common to go on a life journey together. How do you know that?

I read somewhere that more than  80% of WM+RW marriages end up in divorce (don't ask me for the source, can't remember now and can't guarantee that it's correct, but from what I see around me it sounds just about right)

I think that you are doing a disservice to people telling them that doing it "your way" is the only way and Russian women wouldn't somehow like it if you had an interpretor with you on the first couple of dates. In my experience it is quite the opposite. Women can be themselves, speak freely, without straining their brain for a few hours and actually truly understand each other a 100% and not just 25%...IMO when they speak only a little most of the time when you think you are understanding each other in reality you are missunderstanding each other. And in many cases these missunderstandings can bring an end to a budding relationship...
Back on Topic:
Steve, IMO if you need to get away and start a new life in Russia, basically move there, live there, apply for citizenship - then go for it. Most likely you will meet a good woman within a couple of years and date a few just for fun before then. You will probably learn to speak some basic Russian in a couple of years to be able to communicate somewhat.
What Gator said makes a lot of sense, I would listen to his advice.
But if you are thinking of this as just a temporary get away to clear your mind and you are planning to come back to the USA and bring a woman here I would seriously consider everything I wrote in my earlier posts. You might be kicking yourself in the a$$ if you go there, just happen to meet a magnificent woman that you totally think is "The One". Then try to bring her back to the US and have to deal with all the BS of showing last years 1040, etc. etc. waiting for a couple of years for her to get here, and if something happens within these 2 years and your relationship will fall apart you will be back to square one...but heart broken and a couple of years older... well you asked for different oppinions and this is mine.

OK, I won't ask for your source - I know better now. I *will* say that I've met a ton of couples that are inter-cultural, and "what I see around me" does not support those "statistics" or anything close to it.

>>I think that you are doing a disservice to people telling them that doing it "your way" is the only way<<

I didn't see groov telling anyone that his way is "the only way." Quite to the contrary, he simply stated what he believes the result would have been if he had done it YOUR WAY. How can you possibly disagree with THAT?!?

- Dan

[groovlstk]

If there is only limited communication how do you know if a woman is decent, how does she know that you are decent, that you have much in common to go on a life journey together. How do you know that?

I knew my wife very well before she arrived, thanks. Before I met her I'd dated dozens of FSU women, both abroad and in the USA; I did not roll the dice when I asked her to marry me.

She was not fluent in English, but we spoke every day - without fail - for hours and chatted for several more hours more each day.

I think that you are doing a disservice to people telling them that doing it "your way" is the only way and Russian women wouldn't somehow like it if you had an interpretor with you on the first couple of dates.

I'm doing a disservice by claiming "my way" is the best?  Hello, Mr. Kettle!  If you read my past posts, I've always advocated for a variety of methods in meeting women so that a guy can control his own destiny rather than put it in the hands of a 3rd party who may not have his best interests at stake - be it an agency, interpreter, "advisor," singles website, and friends.

[I/O]

I/O,
Fist of all I think that the expenses the man will face one he returns home with his bride, is very much on topic.  Sort of an outlook of what the original poster will eventually face.

Ken, a thread like this was always going to wonder over a variety of areas and it is simply interesting to note where.

Secondly, I would like to know why you think living in Russia is a bad way to find a good RW?  Care to explain?
KenC

That's a long bow to draw from what I said. I never said it was a bad way to find a Russian Woman. Surely given the time that would be available, it would probably be the best way? Nevertheless, if this project is simply to find a partner and one is prepared to go blindly towards a very unknown and doubtful financial future with no other goal in mind, then IMO it borders on the insane.

There is nothing which will bring more pressure onto any marriage, particularly a new one than financial pressure. To deliberately go out of one's own way and plan to put oneself in that situation when it can be avoided, well...........................Forrest Gump comes to mind. Stupid is as Stupid does. IMO, the guy should secure his financial situation a little first. IE: Get some savings and or investment under his belt, lock that aside and then consider the "working holiday". If the remuneration levels in Russia were up to or above Western levels then I would see it very differently.

An example of counter point is my nephew. Working is specialised mechanical areas, dragging $120K + per year, 25, no ties, footloose and fancy free, has the opportunity to work with an Australian mining company in Kazakhstan for 2 years and drag $200K + / year for his troubles with most expenses paid. He has spoken to me at length about it, amusingly enough after he met my wife and discovered she comes from not all that far from that area. I hit him with exactly the same remark. If it is adventure travel and you can earn good money in the process, go for it, you only pass this way once, but if the possible attraction is simply chasing skirt then forget it.

There seems to be a rather pretty young local engineer beeping his radar right now and I note the questions regarding his other idea seem to have become very few and far between, so I suspect I was pretty much on the money with my comments to him. Boys are boys, usually their cock is their compass, wherever it points they will follow, even to their detriment. 

I/O

[Jet]

OK, I won't ask for your source - I know better now.

The source (if I'm not mistaken) was an incomplete study done by a US professor married to a RW with the preliminaries posted at RWG 5 years ago. I also read it (unfortunately the poor fellow died before its completion). The benchmark for considering a relationship a success was a happy marriage of 5+ years and if I recall correctly, there were over 700 participating couples. My initial reaction was to vehemently disagree also, until I stopped to consider the scope, and some other statistics. That's what changed my mind to at least consider the preliminary findings possible, if not probable. Consider that RWD and other sites like it, past and present, attract less than 40% of those actively seeking a bride from the FSU to read of the pitfalls commonly associated with this endeavor. I don't think it's overly pessimistic to assume that the majority of the 60% uninformed, unprepared, and uninitiated to the "safety net" of a group that truly understands the difficulties involved in these type of relationships (I.E. the forums) would *probably* crash and burn within 5 years. Of the 40% left, how many 5+ year couples do we have participating here at RWD? I suspect, not more than a handful, but almost assuredly not more than 100 (hell I can't even count myself in this group until November) out of 3000+ registered members. And these are the folks that did their homework! If someone could show that more than half of all the married members of RWD had cleared the 5 year benchmark I would be really stunned, but that still brings us up only to the 20% success threshold the study suggested overall. It's entirely possible the stats are much higher, but I'm personally highly skeptical that they'd approach 50% OA (too many idiots out there skewing the stats in the other direction  )

[Simoni]

I *will* say that I've met a ton of couples that are inter-cultural, and "what I see around me" does not support those "statistics" or anything close to it.

We don't meet the couples that have split up...they are no longer together.

I stopped to consider the scope, and some other statistics. That's what changed my mind to at least consider the preliminary findings possible, if not probable.

I have to agree with Jet on this one.  The divorce rate figure is very high indeed.  I would put it at 70 to 80 %.     That is why I am posting now--not to sugarcoat the challenge to newbies thinking about this venture.

The evidence I have is strictly anecdotal.  For example, I was talking to a lawyer friend of mine last week who is a divorce attorney in California.   He reported that the percentages he is seeing of breakups is higher with international couples.   And in California the divorce rate for the total population is approaching 70%.    Keep in mind second marriages are at a higher risk for divorce.  Most RWDers are in a second marriage.  Combined with the higher numbers of failures in international marriages, it has a message for all of us. 

Guard your marriage.  Treat her with love and respect every singe day.  Don't let the sun go down on your anger.

And guard your heart and mind.

[KenC]

Success/failure rate
I have no problem accepting the 80% failure rate based on non RWD couples/women we know personally.  We really only know one other couple that seems to be on solid ground.  I think it is easy to get a distorted view of the successfulness of these marriages because we have so many exceptional couples here on RWD.

I/O,
I misunderstood your point, obviously.  My bad.
KenC

[Eduard]

I can count 11 AM+RW couples that I knew here where I live, being a part of Russian community. Only 2 are still married. I didn't know these people untill they started coming to different Russian events in town, so I had no part of matching them up. I believe they used marriage agencies from talking to a few. But most didn't want to say how they met, I belive they were embarassed for some reason about the "mail order bride" thing. I think that this forum is a very good place to get some education on the subject.