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Author Topic: Trip to Belarus! Yes not Ukraine or Russia :) and update to last 3 days In kiev  (Read 4671 times)

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Offline boltar

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Hi guys.

Here is my link to my first trip to Kiev:
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=6515.0

This will give you a little history about my past dealing with russian women.

First off I have to say after visiting Ukraine I dont see how I will ever end up with an American woman.

Now if you took a moment to read my last post ill continue off where I left.

I have three days left in Kiev. I made a post on how it ended with Alena. (photo below) but i never told you how it went.

We meet having breakfast and we seem to hit it right off. She seemed to have plans that day because after lunch she had to go, however she asked if i would like to see her later that night after she goes to the gym. Of course i said yes!

That evening we went to a wonderful 80s 90s live music/dinner called dejavu. If you go to kiev be sure to take your date here! they play everything from american 80s and 90s to some popular russian music. They also play slow songs so if you guys cant dance you can maybe sneak in a slow dance with your dates.


We spent all evening here, dancing, eating and laughing. I even sneaked in a little kiss. Just a small one but hey it was my first one for the whole trip. Around 1am the dated ended with another small kiss and she took a cab home.

During our talks she brought up how her tooth hurt and she needed to go to the dentist tomorrow. i ask her if she would be free after and she said well how about we meet before and you can go with me! I said ok, even thought i thought this was a little strange.

One thing I'll remember for this trip was i spent more on cabs then anything! Now if you didnt read my last post be sure you do on the cab scams. :)

The next day i ran to go meet brendon for lunch. I gave a called to michael but he said he made a date yesterday for lunch so he couldnt meet us. Alena and I were going to meet around 2:30pm so this gave me time to talk about my last date with brendon. We chatted and he talked about a teacher he met that seemed nice although i could tell he wasnt really into her. I think the reason why is he didnt think she was super beautiful but i bet his view would be different if he went out with this girl in america.

One thing to note, is your standards will change (going up) when you look for a russian girl. i can name one or two good reasons and 100's of bad ones on why this is. Now this will get you in trouble because its the really good looking ones that have the highest chance of using you. Just remember that.

Anyway we talked about our double date a few days ago. he was telling me how it ended on where she went back to his place. he also said she did something odd and asked if she could take a shower. i said no way! now for those of you who dont know, if a woman ask to take a shower especially in the evening she is giving you the Ok to make a move for sex. Now i didnt really believe this when i heard it from another guy until it happened to me. Ill get to that part later.

So of course my first question was hey thats great, did you make a move? Now brendon didnt know this and nothing happened. After i told him this he didnt believe me and well i didnt have any experience on this other then that another guy told me so i wasnt very convincing on this theory.

As we were debating this shower thing brendon phone rang and it was micheal. i asked him how his date went and he said awful. He told me how the girl wasnt really interested in him and at the end of the date she tried to scam him for taxi money. i asked him how did you catch her? He said he ask the cab how much the taxi was after she told him it was 60 and it was only 40.  he told me he just walked away and how good it felt. i ask him what her name was so i could keep a ear out and he said Alena. hmmmm....

A moment later i get a call waiting call from Alena. (if you didnt read the other post i forgot my phone and left it in alena bag)  i told michael i had to go to my date. after answering she told me she was outside and off i went to meet her. I got in the taxi and she gave me a fast kiss and off we went to the dentist. during this time i was wondering...

So i decided to try something. i struck up the conversation of my friends and scams. i talked about taxi scams and how my friend michael was just scammed or well attempted. During this time looking to see how she reacted. At the the end i asked her so what did you do today?

She broke down and told me how it was her that saw her friend and she did scam people for taxi money to make money on the side. she look like she was crying when she told me everything. I learned how she gets half of what we pay the agency's for meetings and how the agency schedules lunch dates for her so he didnt get in the way of her work.

If you think about this isnt a bad deal for a woman. you get a free meal, money from the agency and extra cab money if you do it right.

anyway she told me how ashame she was to do this but she is supporting her and her brother in kiev. anyway being honest counts for something even though i kinda trapped her so i figure lets see where this leads.

we get to the dentist (i paid for the cab). after she got out she asked for 50g (10 dollars) to help pay for her dentist. it was 125g i think. i didnt mind so i gave it to her.

We went back to my flat and chatted for a while. Everything from her brother, how she got to kiev (she moved her for school from a smaller town i cant remember). A few years later her brother moved up for school also. He is 16.

Its get closer to dinner and she tells me she has to go to the gym but she would like to see me after. I made a sly look and said you got another money date? she laughed and said no and she would even call me while she is at the gym to prove it. So anyway i told her lets go dancing tonight (night club). She loved the idea.

She did called me from the gym. she went to the pool area and i could hear people diving and swimming. Anyway we meet later that evening and went to the night club. She told me she would take the bus to see me so i wouldnt have to worry about cab fare. Seemed to be a good jester right?

I cant remember the name of the club but it was packed. We danced and had our first really long kiss. After that we couldnt keep our hands of each other. the night went really fast and we ended up back at my flat around 3am. Anyway she asked if she could take a shower...

i wont go into the rest of the evening...

the rest of the days we spent with each other. I even got to meet her brother. he is a wondeful kid. We went to the movies and he refused for me to pay for his drinks and popcorn. his english isnt as good as alena but it was good enough. i can see why but i dont agree how she does it, if she needs money to support him.

the tripped ended me telling her i would arrange to come back again soon and we would keep in touch. If you read my last post on the link above you might have a hint on what happened next.

she became distant with me and no more then a week or so after my trip she told me it wouldnt work out. i got the impression she needed to keep doing her type of work but it she knew i wouldnt like it. it may be other things like she wasnt ready for serious relationship. my guess is i was a target like the other guys that got to close.

Next post Belarus trip

Offline boltar

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Belarus, Minsk

I didnt want to give up. Even though I didnt have the perfect experience in kiev i saw a lot of promise.

I just need to be a little more prepared. So I joined Lucky Lovers and kept looking on EM. both sites arent bad. After a month i meet a girl on LL named Alexandra. she is 21, 5'9" and 120lbs.

We got along well over the phone. Oh one thing guys on web dating. Try and get the phone number as soon as you can. This will advance you greatly if she is talking with other guys. One phone call could easily be 10 emails. During this time I think i talked to at least 7 or 8 different ladies on the phone.

My plan was to find a few ladies in the same city and go visit them, plus have an agency to go see if none of them worked out.

In two months i found two women. The second woman (photos below) Yulia is 21, 5'5" and 110lbs. one of the photos she is holding a teddy bear she bought me and the other my head is cut off. i'm sure you guys dont want to see my ugly mug!

I arrived meeting Alexandra at the airport. She was very friendly had been waiting for many hours before my plane arrived. Expect delays and time to get past custom. Unlike Ukraine you have to have a visa. Very similar if you go to Russia.

Good news is she was very sweet, bad news is i felt no fireworks from the beginning. I felt she was more like a good friend. Im the type of guy that knows if i like a girl within the first two minuets talking to her.

Now minisk is a lot cleaner it seemed then kiev. Then again minsk is a lot smaller them kiev. the flat was the same, an old building that was somewhat remodel. hard beds! i am not sure if i said this in the other post but it seems hard beds are very common so prepare yourself.

Oh so you know i found a website that assist in securing a flat. it was pretty simple. i used a credit card and it ended up 60 dollars a day.

Alexandra was great. she assist me getting settle in and we got a bite to eat. Still nothing but it a little sight seeing was still enjoyable. The food here like Ukraine is wonderful. Avoid american type places! This includes sushi (its very popular and most women would want to go here on a date). no reason to travel 3000 miles to eat the same food in America. Convince them to go to a normal place to eat. Also if you can help it, avoid expensive restaurants. This isnt to be cheap but the best food i ever had in ukraine and belarus was the common places they eat at. This is a balancing act because they would rather eat at a nice place, sushi or etc but i'm telling you try to sneak in were they go normally.

At the end of the date i tried to sneak a kiss but i just all cheek. ahh well. i told her lets see each other again the next day. I had to try one more time to see if there was anything, because she is a great girl. Oh and she never asked for cab fare to see me or etc. :) Hey this is something ill be watching forever now.

the next day i gave Yulia a call in the morning and made arrangements to see her the next day. She doesnt live in minsk but actually 2 or 3 hours away by bus. She said yes and booked a ticket to see me the next day. Belarus has like a complex Grayhound sytem. They seemed to be always full and sometimes overfull. ;)

So the day with Alexandra was pretty boring. The highlight was meeting another american name Ford. Yes i said Ford, like the car. He is a black guy that stuck out heavily in Minsk. I walked up to him and introduce myself. He was on a double date i think with another belarus girl and guy. Since i wasnt having that great of time i decide hey lets all go play pool! So we did.

The evening ended and agian i tried for a kiss and just got cheek. I should only get cheek anyway since i didnt really feel anything romantic towards her.

The next day. that morning i got a text message that Yulia was on her way. she arrived near my flat around noon. i ran out to meet her because she didnt want to meet at my flat. Oh just to you know, most russian women dont want to meet you in your flat and some of them sees this as disrespectful early on like the first date.

We saw each other and she was like sunshine. very bright, smiling, and just had that aura of warmth and happiness. She would be the girl that would brighten up the room when she entered. Now the opposite happened here. Fireworks all over the place. We didnt touch or anything but you if anyone was looking you could see the connection. to be honest i dont even remember what we talked about. I just know it was constant and in a blink it was nighttime.

I forgot. she refused for me to pay for her bus fare and she tried to paid for our meals and cabs!

Its now safe to say that the rest of the trip we spent with each other. She had to call into work and school. Hopefully she didnt get into to much trouble.

Now ive had physical attraction to russia women before that would mimic what i felt with yulia but there wasnt once that i thought she was there for any other reason just because of me. The reason why i say this is each one of you when you travel to russia and you are with a woman that yes there is no way a good looking woman like this would ever go out with you; You ask yourself inside why? Is she trying to get a visa, gifts or money? It is always in the back of your mind.

I learned about Yulia family. her dad owns a small store that sells toys and her mom is a director of a fitness gym. Oh, she also works at the fitness center as an instructor. No fat on her! to bad i cant say the same...

the rest of the week went really fast. One thing that stands out is her sneaking out early in the morning to buy groceries to make me breakfast.

One thing about russian women is if they like you they will show it. They will make you feel like a king, and that is one thing i never found in american women. They will tend to all of your needs, care for you and as long as you respect them, take care of them and dont cheat! With that you have a huge advantage over russian men.

I dont think there was one russian woman that didnt tell me they didnt like russian guys because they were either liers, cheaters, drunks or all of the above.

Another odd thing i figure out is it seems many russian women dont have true russian women friends. Ive asked to many woman that i met and they all seem to say the common thing in private with me. Ill try to explain: they say that just for hanging out for fun they have woman friends but they know if they really need them for help they may not be there, or if something really good happens to them they know their woman friends will be very jealous and often do things to bring them down. I know this sounds odd but i hear it a lot.

Here is a Ukraine joke that was told to me on my trip to kiev by my taxi driver Val (his photo is on the other post): (i am not telling this joke to offend but  just to share my experience)

A warden is making his rounds in the jail. A new prison guard is with him. They go over to the first pit of Americans. They lower down a ladder to give them food, and supplies for the day. They then pull the ladder back up. Then the warder and guard walk over to the next pit of Germans. They lower down the ladder and do the same thing. After they are done they walk over to the pit of Ukraines. The guard notices the ladder already there. He figures it was lowered right before they arrived. After bringing down the supplies they leave but they dont bring up the ladder. The guard tells the warden "You forgot the ladder", and the warden replies "We dont need to bring it up, just watch". The guard waits and watches. After some time goes by he sees a Ukraine starts climbing up the ladder but when he gets to high another Ukraine pulls him back down and tries to climb up himself...



So now i am back home and (knock on wood) i still communicate by email, voice, or sms everyday with Yulia. We seemed to be getting closer when we are apart which is unexpected. I am planning my next trip to belarus at the end of may just to see her and for the first time her family. I will be staying in their home so if any experience guy or russian woman have any tips on russian mom's and dads let me know :)

Wish me Luck,

John

Offline tim 360

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Just read your trip report to Belarus Boltar.  Thank you it was a good read and it seems like you had a good time in Minsk.  Since your previous trip was to Kiev, how would compare the the two to each other, Ukraine to Belarus, Kiev to Minsk your impressions...not the two girls who are both quite beautiful.  Cheers, tim360  :applaud:
"Never argue with a fool,  onlookers may not be able to tell the difference".  Mark Twain

Offline boltar

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I had a better experience in Minsk then i did in Kiev but this could be just dumb luck.

I found a great deal less scamming and gold digging in Minsk. If I had to make an educated guess why its because there are a lot more foreign men that go to kiev. You dont need a visa and its very easy to get into the country.

I notice women there that are with agencies are use to foreign money. meaning if they are beautiful you wont be the first guy that buys them a gift, nice dinner or whatever. So even though they would never expect this from a ukraine guy that always expect it from a foreign guy. I remember asking a Kiev girl this and they said I thought this is how all foreign guys treat their women. Now most of you guys know we dont do this. :) If you go out with a Kiev girl to a mall expect them to like them and expect you to buy it. Now i am not saying its their fault but I think they are just use to this.

Alena the woman I talked about before. She told me she got into this business from a friend because they would rave how much these guys spend on them. So as you can see these bad habits or standards are talked about.

As I talked about in my last post. I was on Jack's tour in Kiev. Every guy that i talked to on the tour had quite a few girls that scam them. You aren't going to be able to avoid it. Just stick to the cities that are less traveled and you will have better luck in finding someone genuine especially if it is your first trip. After you get a few trips under your belt then hit the largest cities if you want.

One of the biggest mistakes for newcomers is they dont when to say no. It is ok to say no the girl if you dont agree or if you dont want to buy or go somewhere. There have been quite a few times when the girl picks out an expensive restaurant and i told her no.

Here is another photo of Yulia. I took this when she just got up. :)

John


Offline nzboy

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Hi all things going well I will be in minsk from 4th june - 26 august . Belarus embassy have been busy and have taken a month to process visa they are promising to send it to me on monday . I think minsk girls are very easy to get along with and of course are the most attractive girls in the world

alantodd

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Belarus is a very small country that is very depressed economically (about 10 million people with 88 men for every 100 women).  Was also hit very hard by Chernobyl.  I have  several friends in Milwaukee who left Belarus in 1988 for USA due to poor job on Chernobyl cleanup.  There 28 years old plus now and have to go to doctor every two weeks. Be careful on who you meet as that country is almost bankrupt and a lot of people are leaving it.  High food prices will not help.    I would stick with women from Minsk (20% of population) as women outside Minsk will be very desperate to leave country. 

Offline ISORW

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The problem is Kyiv is too well off...you can see the difference going throughout Ukraine.  The women in Kyiv tend to be better dressed, have more money and expect more than the women from the smaller cities. They are very westernized.  My best friend in Ukraine just bought a $58,000 car in addition to his $40,000 SUV.  And he is not rich by any means but this is generally very uncommon in the smaller cities.  A guy making $3,000 a month won't cut it with a woman from Kyiv.  I saw a nice Ferrari parked in outside a flat I stayed in last month in Kyiv, and it was as if the owner didn't care that it was getting tree sap all over his (her?) $175,000 car or that it could get stolen.  IMHO if you are not making a six figure salary you can pretty much count only on pro daters in Kyiv.

Offline ScottinCrimea

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I think you don't understand where all this money is coming from.  In the Soviet days, the wealthy lived outside the city center.  Property there was more valuable and since they were the ones with cars, they were the ones who could afford to live there and commute to downtown.  The poorer people were given apartments in the city center. Now that has reversed and these downtown apartments are suddenly the ones that are the most valuable.  So now there are a lot of babushkas living in apartments that are worth $300,000 plus.  When they die, the apartment goes to their only grandchild, who now can sell it and be suddenly wealthy.  It's not like all of these people are earning six figure incomes there.  And unfortunately, being new to the concept of consumerism, many spend their new found wealth on things like Ferraris rather than long term investments.

Heck, if my wife and I were to die tomorrow,  her 16 year old daughter would be left with an office building, three downtown apartments, a dacha and land on the coast.  I think I need to keep her away from the Ferrari dealerships!

Offline Misha

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In the Soviet days, the wealthy lived outside the city center.  Property there was more valuable and since they were the ones with cars, they were the ones who could afford to live there and commute to downtown.

Scott, we can't really speak of "wealthy" during Soviet times  :-\ Brezhnev would not have earned that much more than a common worker on a collective farm. What mattered were connections. If you were a high-standing Communist Party member, then you would be have a much better chance of being given a large apartment in a new building just built on the outskirts of the city. If you had no connections, then you had to make do with the room in the "kommunalka." The same is true with other manufactured goods: your average babushka at the end of the Soviet period had enough money to by the fanciest Soviet Volga, but there was a long waiting list to get such a car. It was only through the right connections that you could actually speed up the process.

Offline ISORW

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Scott, of course not everyone earns six figure salaries.  And I'm sure some of the people came by money exactly as you say.  But...my friend for example did not come by his money that way, nor did some of the other people I know.  They came by it through connections.  I know because I've asked.  Kyiv being the capital of Ukraine simply has more money than other parts of Ukraine.  Reminds me a bit of NYC - money flows through here and the most money opportunities are going to be here.  My friends constantly tell me to move to Kyiv insisting that I can make my NYC salary there.  I'm not quite so convinced as I would not have their connections, I'd have to make it strictly on skill and talent and I have little enough of that as it is...

Offline ScottinCrimea

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I agree that the key to success in the FSU during Soviet times and still today is connections.  I was just pointing out one source of recent wealth that doesn't require any.

Many people had other sources of income beyond the state provided income.   For example, many were allowed to use government trucks or other equipment after hours to earn money on the side.  My MIL worked at a children's learning center.  She was given one room which she used for a quite profitable costume and dress rental business.  My FIL used their car as a taxi in the evenings.  They were considered well off until al the savings accounts were confiscated by the government.

Because so many people were making more money than was "allowed" and were living better than others, the Soviet government at one time started to issue coupons that you had to exchange on a ruble for ruble basis with any purdchase.  The idea was that no matter how much money you had, you could only spend so much per month.  Obviously, those with the best connections knew about the bank confiscations before they happened and were also able to get around the coupon idea.

Offline ISORW

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Okay, I'll agree with you on that Scott...it's just that the way you wrote in your prior post your statement made it sound like that was the only way these people in Kyiv came by their money.

Regardless of where the money is coming from, my point is that the ladies in Kyiv clearly have more money than their sisters in the smaller cities and towns (I hate using the word villages as many Ukrainians seem to like using) and are used to a more affluent lifestyle and anyone contemplating trying to court a woman from Kyiv is going to have his work cut out for him if he's making $50,000 a year and has the usual assortment of mortgages and car loans saddling him.

Offline mendeleyev

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Like Scott, I've seen some wealth among the old Soviets.  My wife's ex father in law, on "Black Tuesday," October 11, 1998, walked outside his dacha and strolled into the woods where he took a small pistol (ah, so Soviet citizens were allowed to own handguns after all!) and blew his brains out.

Why?  Because the old rubles he held before Black Tuesday were worth over $400,000 (as valued at the time in dollars) which this retired University professor had squirreled away over the years was suddenly worthless.  Evaporated.  Gone.  It was there when he went to sleep the previous evening but the next morning by one stroke of the President pen, it was gone.  Worthless.

In the small town where he had retired, that amount of money would have given him and his wife a comfortable lifestyle for the rest of their days.  Today his widow (over age 70) teaches several days a week at her local university.  The money is gone and Russian pensions are meager.  She has no choice.

A close family relative, well off by even USA standards, accumulated her holdings during the Soviet period by investing in apartments as opportunities arose.

The distinguishing factor:  Those who were denied party membership (approximately 10% of the population were registered party members at the height of Communist party popularity) had little opportunity to realize wealth.  Those who achieved membership had the opportunity to do quite well even by western standards.  Sometimes the biggest problem was finding something worth spending it on.  And so they saved.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2008, 10:55:46 PM by mendeleyev »
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