What difference does age make?

[EnergyAZ]

Sorry guy, you only want to hear what you want to hear, and dont seem to have gotten any of the points I am trying to make.  You have totally missed my drift, and put your own spin on it. 


Of course one looks for someone with similar goals and philosophies in life - that goes without saying! 

 No one is trying to dictate anything here. But if you dont think a human being has a natural desire to be accepted by thier peer group, I think you are fooling yourself. 

Just because someone says they are interested in marriage/parenthood doesnt mean thats all they want to do with themselves.  Humans are social animals. And I do think its a pretty safe bet that a hot young woman, from anywhere in the world, enjoys going out dancing with thier girlfriends from time to time.  And I think its safe to say, they want to be liked by thier friends as well.  I would want this for my lady no matter where she came from. 



I have no idea why I cant seem to get my points across to you other than you just dont want to hear them.

[Misha]

Sorry guy, you only want to hear what you want to hear, and dont seem to have gotten any of the points I am trying to make.  You have totally missed my drift, and put your own spin on it. 

Well, this is what I understand. You were recently divorced. You ex was either your age or a bit older. Now you are on the rebound and are looking for a young hottie to help you relive/recapture your youth. I am not saying it is a bad thing, just that you should look for a woman who fits what you are looking for. The problem with most people IMHO is that they want A, yet insist on looking for B.

[EnergyAZ]

Well you understand wrong

I am 34.  Not 44.  I am not having a midlife crisis trying to 'restore my youth'

Do you realize how many rock stars and pro athletes are 34 years old? 

I am a good looking guy, excellent career, wonderful father,  and have good intentions in my heart for the next woman I meet

I am not going to have anyone try to tell me I am not still in my prime and appealing to a wide age group of women, including some younger ones.  Admittedly, its closer to the evening news than the 7:00 hour, but its still prime time!   

And I certainly am not going to let some stranger on the internet tell me what I do or dont want in my woman.  I mean, come on now...

[Misha]

And I certainly am not going to let some stranger on the internet tell me what I do or dont want in my woman.  I mean, come on now...

The question is whether you yourself really know what you want or don't want in a woman. True, I don't know you personally, but simply in reading your posts, I see a number of contradictions and self-justifications.

[EnergyAZ]

The question is whether you yourself really know what you want or don't want in a woman. True, I don't know you personally, but simply in reading your posts, I see a number of contradictions and self-justifications.

Perception is reality isnt it? 

[Ade]

Perception is reality isnt it? 

After seeing your "RW and sexuality" thread on another forum and your posts here I'm a little curious about the reality you're trying to spin; are you really looking for a partner to share your life or a young hot Russian body you can poke until you are ready to have kids?

[BC]

4.) I dont have problems meeting American women at  all.  The reason I am looking to do the FSU thing is because I want a TOTALLY DIFFERENT EXPERIENCE in this life.  Everything from the travel to the language barrier - all fresh new challenges in life.  If I date American women again, I am doing no different with my life than I ever did before.  Its time to shake things up, time for change.

That TOTALLY DIFFERENT EXPERIENCE will last only a couple of years, even with an age difference.  With any luck, after a while she will become simply the woman in your life and might retain a cute accent.

The thrill you seek is quite temporary IMHO.. - what's the next thrill?

[OlgaH]

The woman is as old as she looks

Mary Cleary: "Let me tell you something about old age and that God of yours. Inside this stupid body, I am still young… I still feel.  I still want"...

Colleen McCullough "The Thorn Birds"

[docetae]

I am 34 too...and only children can say if you are a wonderful father (I have 3 children).

I guess you have custody of him/her/them at least 50% of the time, how many children do you have now ? What does your potential wife think about this ?

Did you tell her that she will part of your trip and your desire to have an "experience" ?

[I/O]

Energy: I look 5........whatever years younger than I am, I have/do date young'uns at home, I am young at heart, I will give her all the freedom she needs etc, rah rah. Might be news to you, but the crusty ol' guys who've been around this caper for a while have heard this a thousand times before, almost word for word. Doesn't cut it. You're 34, you're young (In my view), you have an array of options including young'uns available but you are off your merry rocker if you think you are going to drag a 21 Y/O across the world and she is going to become a stable wife for life. Sure there is exceptional examples, but by being exceptional, they demonstrate the general rule, for the most part it isn't going to work.

Her new "Western Identity".  Ain't gunna happen buddy. You'll have a Ukrainian / Russian woman living with you. She will always be Ukrainian / Russian to the boot straps. Get your head around that and you might or might not decide to continue.  Just a side note, she says she wants to be a mother now and you plan to send her out to plant her roots in the social scene. If she is so mature and wise for her age, why is it that you who say you are only a few years older (You look and are so much younger than your age) know so much more about what is good for her. Why are these opinions and desires of this young but so mature thinking woman of no value in your thinking?

You should get on a plane and go visit. One week on the ground with her will tell you more than you can imagine.

I/O

[ScottinCrimea]

I'm seeing the same mistake here that many men make.  They marry a woman not for what she is but what they want her to be.  In this case the OP has her development nicely timelined to fit his wants.  From what we know so far, it doesn't sound like his plans for her are what she has in mind.  At 21 she is still developing and you honestly don't know what direction she will go.  What if she decides she likes the clubbing scene and doesn't want to quit?  You're still doing it at 34, why shouldn't she until then?  So then you have a 34 year old club hopping poptart instead of a 21 year old one.  Suppose she gets into a career and wants to postpone having kids to build it?  Or suppose she doesn't want the club secene and doesn't want a career but instead all she wants is to settle down and have children.  She'll be miserable for the five years she is waiting before she has your approval.

I sense that the attraction is that she is so "hot" and the OP wants to grab her while he can, hoping she will then evolve into the woman he envisions.  Would he even consider her if she was the same in every other characteristic but wasn't quite so hot?

[Sculpto]

Energy...

I am afraid I have to agree with the other posters on this.  You intentions do not seem very well thought out and if you go through with your "plan" I suspect you will encounter innumerable obstacles, road blocks, detours and diversions along the way.

I would also contend that you will have HUGE difficulty trying to introduce yoru super hot UW to your American GFs.  First of all there is the "stupid americans" thing to contend with.  Second, your girl is most likely more independent and mature and will most likely find your AGFs boring and shallow.  Third your AGFs will probably be jeolous in that special way only women can be.  Or, even worse, your UW will absolutely not want you to have so many pretty AGFs and will make your life miserable if you maintain those friendships.

I think you should drop this agency girl you are dreaming about and just go to Ukraine for a month.  Hot girls are a dime a dozen over there.  Finding someone with real depth and inner beauty ought to be the goal and I do not believe you can have any accurate picture of that with any agency girl.  If it is even the girl that is corresponding with you and not an overactive 'terp or agency manager.

I suggest going over to anti-date and finding my thread about my trip to Kherson last year.  Crash and burn sucks!!!  I think I was just as blind as you appear to be now.  You might even throw your same questions around over there and see what kind of response you get from real FSUWs.  "scared stright" comes to mind LOL.  Or perhaps Lily can just wake you up here so we can all watch the fun. 

BTW.. I do not see HER age or maturity as the issue here.  Sorry to say it AZ.. but.. I think you've got your priorities messed up, have bought into the agency propoganda, and most of all are in the rebuilding stages after a divorce.  Not the best time to be doing what you propose.

[Turboguy]

Personally I don't see it as a good match at all and think the odds of it ever working out are about zero.   

I don't see the age difference as any problem.  It is less age difference than most couples here.   

Unlike many others here who feel a woman is not ready to settle down and doesn't know what she wants until she is 25 I don't see her age as a problem.   In my past search some of the most level headed and mature women I met were 21 or less.   I would say a very high percentage of women in Russia who marry either do so by 21 or are involved with the person they will marry by the time they are 21. 

I do have some doubts about energy's maturity level and him being at a point where he is ready to settle down.  He strikes me as someone who wants to live life in the fast lane and is looking for a companion for that life.   I am just not sure the fast life and marriage are a good combination.   I think once the cute accent wears off and energy has to deal with the cultural adjustments of a RW he is going to wake up an unhappy guy.

What gives me the greatest doubts is that reading energy's posts I see two people with totally different goals.   She wants marriage and children which to me says a quiet homelife and Energy wants to drag her into the underground club scene and have her hang out with his ex foxy girlfriends.

Energy, I would suggest that you don't rule out the 21 year old women or even the 18 year old women.   Find one heavy into clubbing and partying and you will have a lot more compatability.   Forget this one.  You have nothing in common and it won't work.

[Kuna]

Personally I don't see it as a good match at all and think the odds of it ever working out are about zero.   

I don't see the age difference as any problem.  It is less age difference than most couples here.   

Unlike many others here who feel a woman is not ready to settle down and doesn't know what she wants until she is 25 I don't see her age as a problem.   In my past search some of the most level headed and mature women I met were 21 or less.   I would say a very high percentage of women in Russia who marry either do so by 21 or are involved with the person they will marry by the time they are 21. 

I do have some doubts about energy's maturity level and him being at a point where he is ready to settle down.  He strikes me as someone who wants to live life in the fast lane and is looking for a companion for that life.   I am just not sure the fast life and marriage are a good combination.   I think once the cute accent wears off and energy has to deal with the cultural adjustments of a RW he is going to wake up an unhappy guy.

What gives me the greatest doubts is that reading energy's posts I see two people with totally different goals.   She wants marriage and children which to me says a quiet homelife and Energy wants to drag her into the underground club scene and have her hang out with his ex foxy girlfriends.

Energy, I would suggest that you don't rule out the 21 year old women or even the 18 year old women.   Find one heavy into clubbing and partying and you will have a lot more compatability.   Forget this one.  You have nothing in common and it won't work.

This is one of the most ridiculous posts I've ever read...  Energy,  for your own sake,  ignore rubbish when it's dumped at your feet.

I don't see the age difference as any problem.  It is less age difference than most couples here.   

Age has been discussed here too often, but something almost universally accepted by experienced men is that the wider the age gap the more the risk...  but the biggest risk comes with a very young woman (under 25) simply because they ARE NOT MATURE.

Yes, the agencies will tell you they are so mature... but it's a lie!

There are exceptions...  but that is a gamble too big for anyone except the most foolhardy gambler?

Unlike many others here who feel a woman is not ready to settle down and doesn't know what she wants until she is 25 I don't see her age as a problem.   In my past search some of the most level headed and mature women I met were 21 or less.   I would say a very high percentage of women in Russia who marry either do so by 21 or are involved with the person they will marry by the time they are 21. 

Some background info for the OP...  Turbo is around 70 years of age... I really can't remember if he is just under or just over.  In this post he says some of the "most mature women he met were 21 or less".    

Whether anyone else finds this strange or sick is not the point...  but IMHO the only thing supporting their maturity is the fact they rejected Turbo.  His 10 year search finally paid off - we think - but goodness gracious, the short time I watched his search was like watching a car wreck over and over again.

To the OP...  you can make your own decisions and you can accept whatever advice you want... beware though, some people just have no clue even if they finally tripped over a relationship resulting in marriage!

Energy, I would suggest that you don't rule out the 21 year old women or even the 18 year old women.   Find one heavy into clubbing and partying and you will have a lot more compatability.   Forget this one.  You have nothing in common and it won't work.

OMG... did he just advise that?  Can you imagine what an 18 yr old Russian girl would be like if she landed in the US and hit the club scene??? 

OP.. please please please please do NOT listen to this man...  if you do the outcomes will be very entertaining for all of us - but this advice will just get you into trouble.




I haven't been watching all posts in this thread but I do have a question for Energy....  How long since your divorce was legally processed?

I don't mean when you moved out of the marital home...

I don't mean "when the marriage died but we stayed living together - but seperately"...

How long since you've been legally free of marital responsibility?

Yes, it makes a difference - MANY OF US HAVE BEEN THERE!

We are here to help BTW...  even if it doesn't feel like it at times...


Good luck!

[Turboguy]

Well I guess great minds must think alike.  VWRW got up this morning, read my post and said she did not agree with my post and said as you did that it was "silly".  I suggested she log on and give her view and told her it was ok to call me an idiot.  She didn't want to do that so I am glad you did it for her.

Darn, I am getting old fast.  Now I am over 70 and I thought that big 0 was a long way off.

My point was just that Energy does not seem ready in his life to go the wife and baby (babies) thing.  That he would be better off finding a party animal type girl rather than one who wants to settle down to a wife/mother role and the gal he likes seems like that is what she wants.

I do think that there are mature young people and immature older ones.  My wife for one is very mature for her age and is as far from the party animal type as you can get.  I have no doubts there are lots of women lots older than his girl who would love that kind of life. 

So I met a couple of young women on my trips who seemed very mature for their age and would have been happy to settle down into a married life.  I personally don't see what is so odd about that.   I met some older ladies who were less ready for that.  I see it as just differences in people.  My first wife and I met when she was 15 and married when she was 18.  She was quite ready to settle down into a married life and most of her friends were getting married about the same age.   

[Turboguy]

Humm,  I wonder how I missed suggesting Energy goes to Kiev and uses Pavel for everything?

[Kuna]

Well I guess great minds must think alike.  VWRW got up this morning, read my post and said she did not agree with my post and said as you did that it was "silly".  I suggested she log on and give her view and told her it was ok to call me an idiot.  She didn't want to do that so I am glad you did it for her.

Darn, I am getting old fast.  Now I am over 70 and I thought that big 0 was a long way off.

My point was just that Energy does not seem ready in his life to go the wife and baby (babies) thing.  That he would be better off finding a party animal type girl rather than one who wants to settle down to a wife/mother role and the gal he likes seems like that is what she wants.

I do think that there are mature young people and immature older ones.  My wife for one is very mature for her age and is as far from the party animal type as you can get.  I have no doubts there are lots of women lots older than his girl who would love that kind of life. 

So I met a couple of young women on my trips who seemed very mature for their age and would have been happy to settle down into a married life.  I personally don't see what is so odd about that.   I met some older ladies who were less ready for that.  I see it as just differences in people.  My first wife and I met when she was 15 and married when she was 18.  She was quite ready to settle down into a married life and most of her friends were getting married about the same age.   

Humm,  I wonder how I missed suggesting Energy goes to Kiev and uses Pavel for everything?

The viagra must be screwing with your head... I'm sure there must be crack addicts around with a clearer view of reality.

If you thought he wasn't ready to settle down (see my question on the period of his new found single status - I have the same doubts) why would you tell him to go start chasing 18 yr old girls?

I bet you've PM'ed him about River Palace too huh???   



Energy, do not listen to this man... he doesn't have a clue!

[BC]

Civility is a virtue.. use it.

[Turboguy]

I think we both see the same thing Kuna.  I personally think he needs to stay single for a while and get some things out of his system.  I don't see someone who is ready to settle down and I think even he sees that he does not want a family right now.   Getting hooked up with a gal whose primary concern is having a family is going to be a big disaster.

I don't see a high level of maturity on his part either.  I don't think most guys his age are worried about missing out on the underground club scene.   I think maturity varies among men and women.  My son is about his age and about the same level of maturity.  I think both would need to get to a point where they want a little more settled life to be succesful with the type of woman he is talking about. 

[groovlstk]

She can take classes, get her career started, explore the underground and club scene, develop her 'new' western idenity, etc before she takes on pregnancy.

Not quite sure what you mean by "western identity," but from the context you've written it seems like a positive thing, like a young girl being freed from the shackles of a humdrum, boring culture and suddenly being allowed to flourish and live. Regardless of how silly that assumption is - the reverse is more accurate - what you'll likely find (if you ever get so far as to do a K1) is that your girl will never exchange her Russian roots for a western identity. FWIW, my wife has been in the US for two years and she doesn't have a single American friend nor does she have any interest in such.

I/O and BC seem to have the rest covered nicely, so I'll shut up for a change.

[Turboguy]

Well I guess great minds must think alike.  VWRW got up this morning, read my post and said she did not agree with my post and said as you did that it was "silly".  I suggested she log on and give her view and told her it was ok to call me an idiot.  She didn't want to do that so I am glad you did it for her.

Just to correct things VWRW said she did not say my post was silly.  She said she just did not agree with what I said.

I have to agree with Groov,  You would would not be freeing her from anything.  She gives up a lot to come here for you and hopefully in time she will find trade offs that make it all worth while.   

[Misha]

FWIW, my wife has been in the US for two years and she doesn't have a single American friend nor does she have any interest in such.

For us, necessity is driving my wife to slowly make friends who are not Russian. Last Friday she went out with coworkers after work and there is a new acquaintance that she will be able to go cross-country skiing with. Of course, it takes time and it is not an easy process.

[Sculpto]

Kuna.. don't pick on Turbo..the essence of his post is pretty much the same as what you are saying... 

And back to Energy.. well frankly I don't think he should be trying to bring anyone over.. if he has a genuine interest in Ukraine he could have a really fun summer in Kiev or Odessa if he chose to, with or without River Palace or any other institution of that type.

For that matter he could just go to Riga and party to his hearts content most probably with a considerably lower degree of hassle.  Or Prague, or Poland, or some island in the Carib with imported Blondies...

But his plan to marry what is probably an agency ghost is what we need to stop him from.. if he will listen.  Or, maybe like myself, he needs to crash and burn to learn his lesson.  I know my train wreck made it possible to find the amazing girl I have found because I woke up to some brutal realities and changed my parameters both for the search and for the kind of woman I wanted to find and even for the expectations of life with her afterwards. 

It is easy to get sucked into the agency BS guys.  Maybe a lot of you have been at this long enough and don't believe it anymore, but, if you discover the possibilities when you are at a vulnerable point in life those carefully constructed phrases and ideas matched up witht he gorgeous photos go directly to your lonely heart.  We should have some sympathy for those who let their imaginations get the best of them.

[Kuna]

Kuna.. don't pick on Turbo..the essence of his post is pretty much the same as what you are saying... 

Sculpto,

You have comprehension problems if you think Turbo and I were giving the same advice.  I was not recommending Energy go chasing 18 yr old girls.

[Turboguy]

I think the point that Sculpto was trying to make was that both you and I question if he is really ready to settle down in any marriage.

Sometimes people can say something that creates an impression that is far from reality.  Perhaps they mean something entirely different from what they say or perhaps not.

Energy just comes off to me first as being someone who really needs to sow some wild oats before he settles down with any woman and he comes off to me as very immature for his age.  He is interested in a woman that he says wants to settle down and have a family.  He wants to party for 5 years first and let her explore the underground party scene for a while.  I just see two totally incompatible people. 

The attraction for him.  She is hot and beautiful.  They share no common goals and hot and beautiful won't cut it alone.  It is a surefire train wreck. 

From what he says of his interests and goals he just sounds very compatable with an 18-21 year old party animal type gal who is out for fun and excitement as he is.  They can have a blast together for a few years and perhaps by that time their goals may be more settled. 

To be honest I think he would be better off not worrying about finding a wife and going to Ukraine or Russia.  Go there and hit all the discos.  Find some wild women to have a great time with.  Have fun, party hearty and enjoy the wild life he wants without ties and commitments.