Boy It's Quiet Here Today................. :)

[UTRO]

Hmmmm,

Okay, it's now 12:15pm Moscow time. What a beautiful sunny day it is! I'm sitting alone in Svetlana's flat in Kirov.... Well I'm actually accompanied by her parent's pug Tyopa, reading up on all the RWD 'gossip' that I have missed since flying in from Toronto last Thursday! Yesterday her friend Anton and I finally got her Wireless Router working Boy was that a challenge.    Out of a city of 800,000, she's one of very few who now has Wireless
What I have noticed is how quiet it is on this Forum??? What happened..... did Serebro finally get Banned?????   :noidea:

[Jazzyclassy]

What does that mean finally?

So you guys all had that in your minds since a long time then??

[BC]

What does that mean finally?

So you guys all head that in your minds since a long time then??

I did not, and will miss her.

[Jazzyclassy]

I did not, and will miss her.

yeah me too

[UTRO]

What does that mean finally?

So you guys all head that in your minds since a long time then??

Nyet. Simply an off-hand remark. I was simply surprised by all the 'fireworks' I had missed since last week. I will miss her comments..... Did she have a bad week or something? She was always quite outspoken, but never so full of Conflict  ???

[Jazzyclassy]

well am not gonna tell my opinion about this whole affair, if you care read the War topic and then Serebro at war with KenC and you will maybe find out why

[UTRO]

well am not gonna tell my opinion about this whole affair, if you care read the War topic and then Serebro at war with KenC and you will maybe find out why

I read the topic and I do have to side with Serebro. Of the 30 million + who died in Russia during WWII, almost half of those were Civilians. Ken generalized that the dead were Soldiers, but I'm sure he knows otherwise. He is a smart and informative man with an FSU wife.
Russia's blaming of the West for so many Civilian deaths is actually founded.... Had the West not dragged it's feet in establishing a Second Front, the German's would have been forced to split their Military Manpower East and West. This would have then resulted in a much weaker Eastern Front, therefore ending the war and the Russian city sieges sooner... ie.. resulting in many fewer Russian Civilian casualties. As history has shown, the Western Allies purposely failed to establish a Western Front in the hope that the Nazis would conquer the Soviet Threat. In effect, the Russian Civilian deaths were preventable. It was a crime. As Serebro stated it was indeed equal to Many multiple 9/11 deaths.
However Serebro.... you became personal in your attacks against Members and their Family.... that is Unjustified.
Jazzy, Serebro 'lost it'. Sometime you got to know when to drop it and walk away.... Serebro didn't and her rantings became silly, attacking and ridiculous.... in my opinion anyway 

[catzenmouse]

However Serebro.... you became personal in your attacks against Members and their Family.... that is Unjustified.

Weren't the attacks against her also unjustified?

Jazzy, Serebro 'lost it'. Sometime you got to know when to drop it and walk away.... Serebro didn't and her rantings became silly, attacking and ridiculous.... in my opinion anyway 

This is like taking a stick and poking it into a hornets next repeatedly until they are furious and want to attack then telling them to calm down and play nicely.

She was a valuable member of RWD and had a lot to offer. Having the ladies here should be considered an honor for the community. Sad that is it all to often treated like an open invitation to be rude and disrespectful.

FWIW

[Turboguy]

I think it is sad that things ended the way they did.   I don't envy Dan's job of trying to keep our discourses civil.  Many of us seem to forget that this is just the internet and we let ourselves get too worked up over things.

Personally I always try to treat the women here with respect and use a little restraint.  I agree with Ken that some of the attacks against her were either unjustified or showed less than gentlemanly behaviour.   I am probably better than most at letting negative comments roll off my back but I will say there were a few times that I had to take a break from RWD for a few hours or a day so I did not say something I would regret.  I think if more people learned to do that they would create fewer problems for themselves.  Serebro let herself get too worked up and that is sad because she added some balance and value here.  I think most of us will miss her. 

[Jazzyclassy]

I do not know why Catzenmouse is telling kind words towards women here, it is so pleasent to hear though, but what he described

 This is like taking a stick and poking it into a hornets next repeatedly until they are furious and want to attack then telling them to calm down and play nicely.
      

that is exactly how we feel,  am not talking about Blue fairy and Lily and others so called "mature" ones

well my husband told me to leave the forum, it is me who is still somehow according to old habit  opening this site, cos I liked many people here , but those who were nice they no longer post that much or left it for some reasons

I do not know but I certainly feel humiliated and offended, let it sound childish or whatever, but it is easy to bully than to say sorry , many men follow the easy way here ....

[Jazzyclassy]

  I agree with Ken that some of the attacks against her were either unjustified or showed less than gentlemanly behaviour.             

exactly!

But you see you only step up when it is too late, why you never came when the thing was on?

[UTRO]

Weren't the attacks against her also unjustified?

FWIW

Well.... perhaps.
I have a rule, it's one thing to attack someone directly.... It's another to attack wives and children. That includes Posting their Photos publicly on the Net. You don't go there, ever.

[I/O]

What happened..... did Serebro finally get Banned?

Yep.  I was going to take the high road on this, but such do not deserve it. The banned poster could have offered so much if she had not been so hypocritical.

She constantly complained of others insulting her and not understanding her and all the while went out of her way to disrupt threads, issue direct and personal insults whilst only offering a limited amount of useful information.

She started a thread elsewhere, among her own kind (Which fortunately are far less common than they would like others to believe) in yet another attempt to justify her actions and spew bile on her targets. In her own opinion, she has never done anything wrong and it is everyone else who is at fault. Of course she has solicited her likeminded cheer squad who have emerged to join in a discussion regarding the shortcomings, as they see it, of a few men who don’t sway to their pressure.

Whilst I think it is sad to see any capable person sell themselves short and ultimately fall on their own sword, in this case I have no sympathy for the poster. She brought each and every part on herself and when she could no longer play the “pity poor me, I’m only a girl”, victim card, she spat the dummy and shot through.

LenC nailed this one perfectly with her “Freudian Projection” post.

Jazz: I am quite pleased to see you stick around, because pleasant or not, much of what you see here is what you will see over and over in the West. You won't simply be able to walk away from that, you will need to confront it in a way that you can make progress. I think it would be to your detriment if you were to leave. Just have a good long think about the "Poking the hornets nest with a stick" line because that cuts all ways. This is what the banned poster failed to grasp. 

I/O

[Jazzyclassy]

Well.... perhaps.
I have a rule, it's one thing to attack someone directly.... It's another to attack wives and children. That includes Posting their Photos publicly on the Net. You don't go there, ever.

Yeah but when KenC's wife  told me that my husband is somebody little boy and that is why I picked him cos russian men would beat me up and I would have my face all in bruises , you think she was allowed to go there a?

She never appologised publicly , so why would anyone else do ? let's us play how they do

[Jazzyclassy]

yeah I should get over that I suppose, but yeah I will let it go , though I am not impressed by how men act here

of course we should not be offended and disappointed about the people, but if people ignore the attacks and insults that means that they do not have a pride at all , I respect myself and so does Serebro

and one more time who is talking about hypocrisy here 

[Jazzyclassy]

Well I obviously do not want to be banned , if I decide to leave I want to leave as a Queen ahhahaha

[Turboguy]

Utrobina,  It is easy to look back on things an see what someone should have done differently.   Just like your comment about the US involvement in WWII.  Maybe you are right but going from a peacetime economy to a war economy takes time and preparation to not waste American lives.   I don't believe for a minute we stayed out of the European front in the hopes Germany would have conquered Russia.  We would have then had to face all the forces of Germany on one front and it could have been a far bigger challenge.  We really don't know what would have happened and 20-20 hindsight is just speculation.

When Ken and I talked about the attacks being unjustified or less than gentlemanly behavior we were talking about the things prior to the final battle not things that happend after the banning.

Jazzy, The title of that thread was something like Serebro and KenC at war.  It didn't work out that way once it got started.   It was more Dan and Serebro at war.  Had the war been between KenC and Serebro I might have jumped in and defended her.  With it being between Dan and her there was no way I was going to stick my nose in on her behalf.   I am not saying that if I thought she was right and Dan was wrong I would not say so but I don't think Dan was wrong.  Dan was not the one who she felt attacked her.  At that stage she was already letting her emotions rule over her good judgement.  The cold hard reality is that she let herself get carried away and let her emotions run unchecked.  She shot herself in the foot and it is sad.  What she did after she was banned shows poor taste to word it mildly.  I think many will miss her and I am glad to hear that Jazzy is still here.  

[Catman]

I also miss Serebro. Please don't leave Jazzy!

[catzenmouse]

While I agree that the posting of the pictures at AntiDate was not appropriate don't we have members here that do the same thing all the time?

Posting pictures of ladies they think might be scammers, posting pictures of ladies they have bedded, posting passports, posting their adds and multiple pictures asking things like "Is this the same girl?" etc. etc. etc.

Additionally, manipulating someone and goading someone until they explode does not make it okay to now say they got what they deserved. This has been happening all too frequently here and not just lately. Though lately it seems to have become a source of pride for some.

How does that translate to the behavior here being "above" what is done elsewhere?

To be a "cut above" the members here, especially the long time members, need to step up faster and put a stop to the cheap shot low quality behavior whenever we see it happening. This does not mean to pander to anyone for any reason but it does mean that the rules and consequences are the same for EVERYONE regardless of tenure or perceived value.

I do not know why Catzenmouse is telling kind words towards women here, it is so pleasent to hear though, but what he described that is exactly how we feel,  am not talking about Blue fairy and Lily and others so called "mature" ones

well my husband told me to leave the forum, it is me who is still somehow according to old habit  opening this site, cos I liked many people here , but those who were nice they no longer post that much or left it for some reasons

I do not know but I certainly feel humiliated and offended, let it sound childish or whatever, but it is easy to bully than to say sorry , many men follow the easy way here ....

Jazzy,

 You many not believe it but not every call for better behavior is done on the open forum. Many of the members here will take their concerns directly to the person they feel is wrong or to the management of the board. Just because you do not see it does not mean it is not happening.

 If we lose the ladies who participate here then we lose much more than a couple of members. We lose the ideas, thoughts, opinions, and experiences of the very same people who we are "supposed" to be interested in spending our lives with. In my opinion we've seen a lot more stupidity, ignorance, and inconsiderate behavior from the male members here than we ever have from the female ones.

Ken

[Jazzyclassy]

All those words are so nice and sweet you are telling at the minute but they wont change anything, the person is banned , hurt and humiliated

It is like when you kick the fence 10 times and then would like to repair it , it will take you much more longer time to do that , you probably will have to build a new one, cos old one will be ruined, that is how the person's soul is, if you hurt a person , it is hard to remove the scars on his heart. We do not have new hearts just for the record , so fence is in better position if you know what I mean

think for yourself but this situation with Serebro made my doubts clear about the whole this so called gentlemen treatment and maintance of the site

and plus yeah who is telling right words now, the people who actually did not insult Serebro in the first place, so the ones who did , they are sitting in a safe place, afraid to speak

[KenC]

Weren't the attacks against her also unjustified?

This is like taking a stick and poking it into a hornets next repeatedly until they are furious and want to attack then telling them to calm down and play nicely.
She was a valuable member of RWD and had a lot to offer. Having the ladies here should be considered an honor for the community. Sad that is it all to often treated like an open invitation to be rude and disrespectful.

FWIW

Catz,
I find it extremely ironic that you use the phrase I highlighted, because if anyone stirred up a hornets nest, it was you.

Facts of the matter are that Serebro "zinged" me with a rude post and I "zinged" her in return.  There were no negative exchanges prior to Serebro's "zinging" of me.  I will not debate who's post was more rude, because that is a total judgement call and I have my opinion and you have yours.  But the point is this, Serebro didn't appear to have a problem with my retaliatory post and the thread had moved on, back to the original topic.  It (Serebro and my supposed conflict) was a dead issue until you thought it necessary to interject your opinion of my post.  Even then, I tried to deflect your reopening of the issue, by giving you a short answer "I replied in kind".  Still you persisted (now joined by others) to make the "conflict" the main point of the thread.  Eventually, Serebro joined back into the fray, but only after you persisted to make the "conflict" the focus of the thread.

I have had a few "dust ups" with Serebro in the past, but there was no on going problem between us as some have alleged.  She is a tough girl and speaks tough and is also willing to accept tough talk in return.  Unlike some others here that can dish it out and then hide behind "being a woman" when the replies get rough.  There are many valuable ladies here at RWD and most do act like ladies.  Those that do so are treated with great respect as they deserve.
KenC

[KenC]

Serebro is no martyr.  In the end she was banned because she openly refused to play by the rules here.  Period.  She defiantly refused to acknowledge the terms of service.  Dan had no option but to ban her.  In essence, Serebro banned herself.
KenC

[Jazzyclassy]

No ,Serebro had to go , cos you banned her  period


Well in any case all those things which you expressed towards a person will strictly return back to you  and it is not my invention it is law of life

[catzenmouse]

That's some funny stuff KenC. Never to blame, never responsible for the fights that start and continue (seemingly mostly with you by the way), no accountability at all huh? Just a pillar of truth, justice, and the KenC Presents RWD way. I'll see what I can do about getting the logo changed so that we properly represent the reality of the situation.

Yup, all my fault. If that helps you hang on to this fantasy about your behavior then that is fine with me.

All those words are so nice and sweet you are telling at the minute but they wont change anything, the person is banned , hurt and humiliated

It is like when you kick the fence 10 times and then would like to repair it , it will take you much more longer time to do that , you probably will have to build a new one, cos old one will be ruined, that is how the person's soul is, if you hurt a person , it is hard to remove the scars on his heart. We do not have new hearts just for the record , so fence is in better position if you know what I mean

think for yourself but this situation with Serebro made my doubts clear about the whole this so called gentlemen treatment and maintance of the site

and plus yeah who is telling right words now, the people who actually did not insult Serebro in the first place, so the ones who did , they are sitting in a safe place, afraid to speak

Serebro could have helped herself with agreeing to the terms but I also believe that others should have also been called on to agree as there was more than one who was out of bounds. Other than that I don't disagree with you at all here Jazzy.

[I/O]

No ,Serebro had to go , cos you banned her  period

Jazz: This is not quite correct. Serebro played chess until she backed herself into a corner with nowhere to go.......she shouted, "I am not gunna play by the rules, I am out". The ban came after that on the basis of her declaration of not being prepared to accept the TOS. She gambled, she bluffed and her gamble/bluff was called. She put herself in a position of no choice.

The second Dan raised the question as to whether or not she would accept the TOS, it was never going any other way. She has the choice, she gambled with no aces and lost. Good job she doesn't admire America because she wouldn't do well in Vegas.

Catz: I don't think your peace offerings (In either location) are particularly well advised.

I/O