Hello everyone, new to RWD and going to Russia on May 8th

[felix8787]

Hello everyone
Doll: Don't quite understand your meaning of "Where you are on vacation all the time is "quality time together".
It started out as what I thought would be a good vacation, but having had an emergency operation b/c of an acute appendicitis and not being able to see to much of the rich history here makes it more of a ..............turn of events as one would say or as my lady put it "it is life". But either way, it still turned out to be very interested with it's up's and down's. Not saying that we argue by any means. If anything she told me this morning that I am a very very good муж, b/c I watched her son, did some grocery shopping and got some essentials and I made her dinner and tea when she got home from work, that little extra free time we talked, got intimate and then took her son with a friend of hers and her son and went for a walk while she took a nap. Don't know if she meant that I am good husband material, but I was certainly looking out for her best interest coming home from a day of work. But and I mean but....her son raised hell yesterday evening, once because I told нет several times about eating these chocolate cookies in the evening that I bought that afternoon, but of course he screamed to high heaven and he got what he wanted, needless to say my lady says that her son complains about not getting enough sleep and I told her flatout, b/c all he does is eat chocolates and has a constant sugar rush not to mention he goes to sleep around 11:15 to midnight ("hm I wonder if that could be the cause of him not getting enough sleep?") and then after that when her friend and her son were over he threw a serious fit because it was getting late something like 10:45pm and it was time for her friend and her son to go home, but since he couldn't get what he wanted he cried for something like 20 minutes and was throwing stuff around. I have my reservations about this should we take this further.
My mistake Doll, I misunderstood you about the 5/25 post. Yeah I would of agreed to meet somewhere else or if she would of made arrangements ahead of time with her parents, but that didn't happen and I'm trying to make the best of it. But her money is super tight and when I get back, it's back to working my tail off.

Ronnie: Your welcome and this post is for anyone who wants to paint a picture in their minds as to the dailys of a RW, I'm not saying that all RW are like this, this is just my own unique experience. Like anyone else she was excited to get credit and will use it (already got herself a pretty big flat screen) but it does eat up 1/3 of her monthly salary, her brother was telling me of the mafia corrupting other people (he's a police officer) and like myself he also has 2 jobs but his second job he only works 3 off 1 on rotation. But that reminds me that when talked the other night, she admitted to me that she wanted to have a good life with me, I don't know if it's her lack of English or what, but she told me that she thinks about life with me everyday. I though about it and still continue to ponder my thoughts of life with her, I know that it can be good with her (I can see myself with her as a M couple), but I don't know if I can take that kind of behavior from her son and the lack of discipline he has in my life or around my child. She would really need to take control on her part over her son. I certainly don't want that kind of headache everyday and money being wasted away on toys and junkfood just to please her son (it kind of makes me wonder if there would be favoritism on her part, on her son and not treat my child equally b/c of his lack of discipline), not to mention any damage caused from his temper fits.

That's all for now.
felix8787

[apple47]

      Hey felix.,,,,,,,you mentioned some concern about dealing with her son long term if you were to marry this woman.  Give this situation mucho,mucho thought.  Handling it for the short time you where there is one thing,living it every day could ruin the relations with the wife.    Think long term.        Using my experience with my wife,I'm concerned about  spending 30% of her income for a TV.     Again think long term.   

            To walk away would take a lot of strentgh,especially if you have come to feel a bit sorry for her in her situation,or if she has won some part of your heart.  To continue could make it even tougher ,later,to leave.   To go thru with marriage and immigration could test you past your limits.  You may need strength you don't have.

              I'm not trying to be a downer.  I'm sure you are thinking of these things and probably more.     Im just trying to put a point on it . 

                  Eyes wide open . Consider carefully and seriously.  The rest of your life depends on it.

                                         Again,,Good Luck............Larry

[Doll]

Doll: Don't quite understand your meaning of "Where you are on vacation all the time is "quality time together".

I mean vacations for BOTH of you.

[Ronnie]

Felix,

RW mothers spoil their sons to high heaven.  It's a big part of why there are few responsible RM in the world today.  Someone said it started after the GPW when so many sons were lost and those who remained were treated like gold by their grateful mothers, grandmaa and aunts.  Some the pattern continues.  It seems RW moms are more disciplined with their daughters.

Be grateful you have had this microcosm of life together, though you have not yet been thrown into the crucible of both yours and hers together and in competition.  Unless this lady says to you, swears on her bible that she will defer to you in all matters of discipline with BOTH children, you may be on a collision course with unhappiness.

If you don't get a heartfelt and believable commitment, you should seriously consider chalking this trip up to valuable experience that will help you in the quest.

 I had to send my first K-1 back to FSU with her two daughters and cat.  There were not problems with the woman or her cat.  The daughters, even though old enough to know better (20 and 25) were a nightmare.

I'm sure there are many childless RW who would love to start a family with you and accept you child as hers.

[felix8787]

Hello everyone

Hey Ronnie: Yeah have noticed that she does spoil him way to much. Example, yesterday when she and her son got back from getting the boys hair cut, her friend was over waiting for her with her son, when they got home and he walked in, he had a toy pellet gun, as soon as the boy seen his friend, he shot him in the face right below his right eye! All I could do was shake my head.....I just thought to myself OMG, if it was my son he would of got punished immediately and gone straight to bed, no if and's or but's. Nope he just got a tiny lecture and was sent on his way, the mother all she could do was just stare and hold her son who was crying. It was a shame. I think that if things don't work out it will be b/c I will end it and not b/c we are incompatible, she does try with me but as she showed me in her Russian English translation book, "Jealousy", is the main factor here and she know's it and trys to please her son so he would not throw a fit. I am grateful for the time here with her, yes, I am grateful that I had to somewhat deal with this jealousy and temper fit, HELL no (no pun intended towards you). But as this is my last weekend with her and we will finally have a day to ourselves without her son tomorrow, it will be a deciding factor for as to wether I want this to go further, I don't want to marry her and then have to share our bed with her son, I will be the first to tell that needs to stop now, I am not going to put up with it, I won't let my daughter with us, so why should he sleep us? I think it is something that she is not used to, the word and power of "NO" on him, well that is something that she needs to learn if in all likelyhood she would want to have a meaningfull relationship/marriage with me, if not, then I will chalk this up as an experience and keep searching. Believe me if I don't get the heartfelt and believable commitment from her, I am sorry but it is over. I won't have pity for her or feel sorry for her, her situtation was like that before I came along and she was making it and she will continue to make with or without me.
I am sure also Ronnie that there are plenty of childless RW that will be happy with accepting my child as their own and appreciate a good man (not being big headed, for those of you who haven't read my threads, read my last few post of my days here and you will understand.)

felix8787

[Doll]

 You need to seek for a woman with no kids, you can't bare any of them but for your daughter.

I am sure also Ronnie that there are plenty of childless RW that will be happy with accepting my child as their own

Good luck

[Jet]

You need to seek for a woman with no kids, you can't bare any of them but for your daughter.

I don't think that's entirely fair Doll. I recall when Liliya and I were not yet married that we dealt with some of these very same issues, only it was not Kolya's mother spoiling him, it was his Great Grandmother. Some of the stuff Russian ladies let their sons get away with is just totally alien to Americans that have never been exposed to it before. It is a learning curve on both sides. 4,5, & 6 year olds staying up until almost midnight is a concept that is not unusual to Russians, but is just downright WEIRD to Americans. As I have come to understand, Liliya was much more strict with Kolya than most mothers, but still VERY lenient compared to the way most of us guys were raised.

Good luck

I agree completely, the mindset in Russian culture is completely different than in America regarding children of previous marriages. Of course there are women who would accept his daughter, to suggest that there are "plenty" is a very big overstatement IMHO.

[Doll]

 Jet , the whole report is a complaining of no time together, not enough quality, this is not right, that is not right.
Felix put himself ( as well as the lady) to a situation where nobody could win. Two jobs, small place to live, a small kid (he is who he is by this moment), hospital etc.
  Either you accept the kid how he is NOW or you go ahead and look for this plenty who will " be happy to accept your kid and a good man"
Jet, there are differences in culture and you need to accept it. Why would you endlessly criticise what you see? You hate it? Just go away. No, you stay there, you sleep with a woman even having made the decision to dump her.
 Just hate it.

[Doll]

Felix, does your daughter live with you?

[Doll]

Ah, I see- she does not.

[Jet]

Jet , the whole report is a complaining of no time together, not enough quality, this is not right, that is not right.
Felix put himself ( as well as the lady) to a situation where nobody could win. Two jobs, small place to live, a small kid (he is who he is by this moment), hospital etc.
  Either you accept the kid how he is NOW or you go ahead and look for this plenty who will " be happy to accept your kid and a good man"
Jet, there are differences in culture and you need to accept it. Why would you endlessly criticise what you see? You hate it? Just go away. No, you stay there, you sleep with a woman even having made the decision to dump her.
 Just hate it.

It seems obvious that if she had to take time off recently because of her own illness, that the timing for this trip was not good, but I can't speculate as to what transpired during the planning stages; whether he forced the issue by saying I can ONLY come at this time, or if she even suggested it was not a good time. Please don't lecture about cultural difference. I have culture expert sitting next to me on divan who is pretty adamant that Russian culture dictates you make *some* time for out of town visitors, even if they are only visiting from another town in Russia, and if you don't, your visitors are right to question your commitment to the relationship (this is not a boyfriend/girlfriend thing nor is it about the fact that Felix came all the way from America - it is simply good manners).

I don't see where Felix is bitching about "this is not right, that is not right" he's simply relaying the items that are making him pause to think. This is much healthier IMHO than to simply ignore personal "red flags" and press on regardless - he has to decide if he can live with these things long term, and he seems to be in the process of doing that.

[Gator]

Felix,

Interesting story.  Thanks for sharing.

When dating a RW with children, you really need to analyze your compatibility not only with the woman but with the child as well.

Regarding the RW, do you and she make each other laugh, have insightful conversations, express affection, solve dilemmas together, etc.?  I am not reading this unless you have omitted it.  I did read that affection is low.  If you are man who craves some affection, you need to find another woman because some of these RW have a cold personality from past betrayals, etc.  You can not expect them to change quickly.   The pressures on your woman are not atypical for single moms – I met RW in the same boat who still managed to find time for me. 

Her boy seems alien to you, yet he likes you.  A child wants a father.  It is a very serious undertaking for life.  He has been betrayed by his biological father.  These little tykes can not take many betrayals before their heart becomes cold.  You have a daughter so you know what is involved.

You need to have two interconnected serious discussions with your RW: 1) what’s good and bad about the relationship between the two of you and 2) what you want to see done differently in rearing her son.


Good luck with your deliberations.

[Ronnie]

When a RW with a child by another man wants new new husband to be a good father for the child, then she must be willing to defer to him.  By taking on the obligation of fatherhood for someone else's child, he must also be afforded rights. 

A woman cannot expect her new husband to be merely a provider of material sustenance and a baby-sitter/chauffeur without giving up some of her own sovereignty over the child.  If she cannot do that, then she should stop looking for a husband.

Doll misreads Felix's dispatches.  He is not complaining, he's relating his thoughts and impressions.  Further Doll's comment that she hates that he is sleeping with her though he's decided not to marry her.  Felix has not made a decision against the realtionship. 

Doll makes it sound like the woman is paying him with her body for some expected return that he has no intention of delivering.  That's a assessment I find distasteful yet typical.

[Doll]

Felix has not made a decision against the realtionship. 

I can tell he has.

[Ronnie]

I can tell he has.

And therefore he is taking payment (sex) fraudulently?  Is that your argument?  Interesting viewpoint. ???

[Doll]

Sorry- didn't have time to reply in the morning.
Differences in cultures. I know what you mean regarding your wife and my kids haven't been naughty. My point is that the kid is how he is and if he likes the lady he can show his  parent's skills.

A woman cannot expect her new husband to be merely a provider of material sustenance and a baby-sitter/chauffeur without giving up some of her own sovereignty over the child.  If she cannot do that, then she should stop looking for a husband.

I agree but this is not the case- we have just a man who came to see the woman. It is just a date - poorly planned.
 Men marry women not kids and then the couple makes corrections if needed.
 Come on guys! It was just a bad plan.
 

Doll makes it sound like the woman is paying him with her body for some expected return that he has no intention of delivering.

  Not really- they both have no choice but play till this game is over.
He didn't like the whole thing from the very beginning, go back and read his posts.

[Ronnie]

He didn't like not having time to spend to get to know her.  I'm not seeing where he's at fault here.  He obviously though she'd arrange to spend more time with him. 

See this is why I don't like WOVOs.  What should she do, take a leave of absence from her job for a month?  What excuse would she use for that?  Would her job be there when the month was over?  Who would pick up the extra workload at her office?

Then after she does all that, forgoes a month's salary in hopes that maybe the man will understand this and offer her some money -  I'd hate to be put in that position if I was her - then maybe, like so many keyboard Casanovas, he backs out at the last minute.  Or maybe they don't feel any vibes when they first get together.  What does she do then?  Many but put lipstick on the pig and soldier on.

I remember some years back, a guy from the Northwest did his initial WOVO thing..someone in Belarus he'd found through EM.  All her photos were closed mouthed.  As she was in her forties, I told him to be prepared for a shock when she opened her mouth.  He got there and found I was right and the impression of the ill-arranged teeth was hard for him to get past.  Ironically, as I recall he became very ill too during his first trip (come to think of it, so did I!).

So No.  WOVO...no good.  I don't like it from both sides of the line.

Guys, for your sake and hers, just go there, use the services of a reputable agency with local presence and meet as many as it takes to find a good fit for both of you.

This WOVO business is like a cold sore that won't go away....kept active only by the rare magical exception.

[Doll]

 God! Teeth again! 

I'd hate to be put in that position if I was her - then maybe, like so many keyboard Casanovas, he backs out at the last minute. 

 Me too. So a month in this situation was a bad idea.
As for dating as many as.... etc- I would never be a part of this show. Have never been.

[Ronnie]

But it was okay for you to date all those men you mentioned in another thread?

[Doll]

What's wrong about it? There was up to a year between the dates.

[Gator]

Doll,

Some personal questions.

Did you date RM while planning a specific visit from a Western man?

Did you keep corresponding with other WM just before the arrival of your visitor, to include discussions of future meetings?

When the visit failed to create a continuing relationship, how long before you dated RM again, or did you stay at home awaiting the next WM even though as much as one year passed?

[Doll]

No.
Yes.
What do you mean- stay home? Sure I stayed home 
I started my search all over again.

[Gator]

Thanks for answering my questions.

I always thought it strange that a RW would no longer date RM.  However, enough women have told me this that I consider the attitude to have some popularity albeit not prevailing.  Such women are committed to finding a Western man for a husband, and such women can expect if not demand that a man visit her and only her.

You got married to your Western man many years ago when the FSU economy was far worse.  RM now have more money and perhaps much fewer RW feel the same as you.  However, many of the RW who told me "Nyet Russian men" cited reasons other than money.

[Doll]

6 years is not a long time though the economy has chaged a little.
I didn't date RM not because of any commitment- just personal stuff.

[Wienerin]

There is nothing wrong with going overseas for almost 4 weeks to be with someone, ...
Anyways my point being, what does it matter if it's 1 2 3 or 4 weeks, it's still the same to me, time killed, money spent and being with someone who I could spend my life with, besides isn't that what most of these other gentlemen say in here, to have as much face to face time as possible or I am wrong? I'm just doing it my way. You might do it differently but the end result will be the same....

Agree on all counts - there's as much chance on finding she is just right for you than vice versa (even more of the first since you've corresponded and talked over the phone)

What shock are you talking about???? The only shock that I had was when I found out my International roaming minutes cost is $4.99/min instead of the $1.49 that I thought that it was.

A pity I've not seen this earlier. As a devoted Mom, who spends hours every week talking to my kids over there, I've found long ago to talk using phone-cards. Though some of the ones widely popular in the Russian community here will give you rates like 1-3c for Moscow and StP and 10-27c for the rest of Russian and FSU (and WEstern Europe too, which Lithuania had become - my older son lives in Vilnius), for the last year I mostly use Western Union Golden Card (you could find the application online and at every currency exchange, etc. where they have WU agent).

Their minutes are more expensive - but you don't have to hunt for a good card (you just load more money on the card - either on the internet or directly with a WU agent), they do not cheat you (all of the Russian or Polish cards I formerly used either have hidden costs or frankly steal time). For $20 I have - from Chicago - 8 hrs talk to home phone in StP, 5 hrs to their cell-phones and almost 4 hrs to a cell in Vilnius. With a 1-888... connection you can use it moreover wherever you need (I've called Russia and USA from Europe), and the connection is much better than with small ethnic local providers.