How much money to send to wife

[KenC]

I'm sure by now you already know I'm schizophrenic!  9 lives = 9 personalities!

The key words here were that "he" could not fix it but that "they" could. Guess I should have bolded those as well.

OK, now I get it.  You are not as nuts as I thought.
KenC

[LiveFromUkraine]

Hahahahahahaha! 

The more the religious the person claims to be the less likely I would trust them.   


Thomas

[catzenmouse]

Perhaps a new topic in the NHB section would be a good place to discuss the different opinions on religion so as to not keep taking this one off on a tangent.

[groovlstk]

OK Anastassia and Groovlsk,
I happen to agree with the two of you, but......
don't you two think that maybe, just maybe there is a chance to save this situation?  There had to have been some reason for this couple to jump into marriage, whether those reason were valid or not is another issue.  Is there no hope for a save here?

Just my opinion of course, so Neil please take this with a grain of salt as I'm sure you will, but I think the odds are hugely stacked against you in making this work, enough to make it risky even to try.

One thing I've seen time and again here is guys falling for women who spend too freely and then wanting advice on how to reign things in, it's a common theme. The consensus is always that the guy should have a long talk w/his girl and gently put his foot down. I may be wrong, but I've never once read an account of this plan working in the long term. Regardless of her reasons for accepting his marriage proposal, Neil has set her expectations very high by running to Western Union every time she breaks a shoelace and that is, IMHO, a one-way street and there's no going back. Unless of course she has genuinely strong feelings for him (I won't even bother to use the L-word) but given what Neil's told us of her it seems unlikely...

I would suspect that his next meeting w/her will yield few definitive answers. I'm reminded of the stereotypical agency guy who travels to the FSU to meet a drop-dead gorgeous girl whom the agency insists is "sincere" and "serious" (and all those other claptrap words we've read a thousand times). He discovers that his girl has about the same interest in him as she has in polynomial equations, despite the agency manager's insistence that the girl adores him but is merely shy, etc. Our naive hero endeavors to sit down and have a serious talk with his beautyqueen on his final day in-country, and the time-tested end result is always the same, either she:
1) Connives him by blaming her disinterest on some vague problem and promises in the future to show him more affecton.
2) Deflects all blame and turns her lack of interest on him to make it look like it's his fault, and the cruel promise is that he can turn her on if he'll behave differently.

In both instances Romeo comes home with that vague uneasy feeling in his gut mitigated by an optimistic determination to forge onward.

To make a long story short, Neil can do his best to salvage this but if she doesn't have his best interests at heart he's entering a minefield.    

Man, I'm longwinded today, someone get me a beer.

[jakeob]

Blues fairy,,

I can see your struggling to to understand my wifes situation with her 13 year old daughter, i can understand that as a woman yourself maybe with children its a major red flag,.
I tried to accept this situation and tried not to judge my wife to much, this is not what you would call ideal, i dont understand it that much myself, there is obviously some problems but as you know i am still learning and watching. From what i have seen even though they live at the other ends of Ushacova  my wife takes good care of her daughter in all the other normal ways.

[KenC]

Man, I'm longwinded today, someone get me a beer.

Groov,
It isn't a simple question nor is it a simple answer.  Neil owes you at least one brewski for that excellent advise IMO.
KenC

[Blues Fairy]

I tried to accept this situation and tried not to judge my wife to much, this is not what you would call ideal, i dont understand it that much myself, there is obviously some problems but as you know i am still learning and watching. From what i have seen even though they live at the other ends of Ushacova  my wife takes good care of her daughter in all the other normal ways.

Neil, I am sure the situation is more complicated than any of us would ever understand.    But I have often observed that in families where a child is so "difficult" as to alienate the mother, the root of the problem is almost always the mother's behavior, not the child's.  Can you say that your wife is an emotionally mature, responsible kind of person?

[UTRO]

I've never heard of a mother being separated from her children unless there was neglect, religious fundamentalism, racial issues, the mother was mentally or physically disabled, or the mother was too young and or immature to raise a baby. If your wife, her parents, or the state made the decision to separate the two because she was too young to raise the child, I can 100% understand. Is this the issue? Does the child know who her mother is? If not, how can a mother who is bonded by blood and living in the same city not want to be with that little girl 24/7? Especially now that she doesn't work?? If the reasoning doesn't fit the above criteria, I would Seriously take this as reflection into your wife's personality.
I hope the daughter's teeth are as healthy as hers.

[jakeob]

Groov

Yes good advice there well put,, as for the kid thing, "Yep"  having another think about this to:)


neil

[ScottinCrimea]

I've really tried to give this woman the benefit of the doubt.  I can understand some of the mentality and issues on her side.  But there are still a few things that bother me.  It could be simply that I don't have enough information to know the answers (which I don't).  I certainly don't have enough information to pronounce this relationship doomed. Still, there are questions that need to be answered for me to know what is really happening here.

The issue with the daughter really bothers me, for one.  I've tried to think of reasons why this arrangement would make sense, but I can't think of any.  Of course if the mother was required to work long hours and the daughter had better supervision by being with her grandmother I could understand this.  I know the closeness that extendced families have there.  But now with her not working and having plenty of time, I would think that her first goal would be to bring her daughter home.  The only remote possibility I could think of would be that it would be difficult for her to change schools in the middle of the year and the plan is for her to return to her mother once school ends.  i haven't heard anything either way on that.  Even in that case it would not be unthinkable for the woman to move in with the grandmother to be close to her daughter.

What is this woman doing with all of her time now that she isn't working?  Is she taking intensive English classes to prepare for the big move?  If she owns her own apartment is she fixing it up for resale or rent? Is she sitting in the apartment all day?  Is she hanging out with friends (male or female)?

How is she spending the $900 a month?  I think all would agree that this is more than she needs for the basics.  Where is the rest going? Clothes? Entertaining friends?   Has Neil asked her for a list of basic expenses?

I'm sorry but I have a problem with those here who cry out scammer or divorce based on limited information coming from one side only.  Rather than make assumptions and and declare the worst, I think we would do better to civilly point out to the poster where our opinion is leaning and reques the specific information we need to solidify or change out opinion.

I have no doubt that, had I been on this forum in the early stages of my relationship with my wife and mentioned some things, I would have heard the same declarations of doom for our relatinship, yet here we are four years later, still going strong.

[wxman]

Assuming a marriage was not arrived at through false pretenses, there really shouldn't be any concern that a man is sending his wife $800 a month. It is his wife afterall. Having him send only what she was surviving on before they were married is foolish. It's basically telling her that her life will not be allowed to improve, even though she is his wife, until after she arrives in his country. If that doesn't sound controlling, I don't know what is. It not as if he is now sending her $5000 a month. She is probably only getting a couple hundred a month more that before. Quibbling over a few hundred dollars is not worth the trouble and not good for any marriage. Yes, she is now living better, but isn't that what any man would want for his wife and family?  Of course this may not apply to neil's case, but more of a general statement for any marriage where the spouse is a long distance away. Most would hope, that when you marry someone, you really love and trust them, thus making the sending of $800 a month seem non important.

[AnastassiaAsh]

The more the religious the person claims to be the less likely I would trust them.   
Thomas

   :crackthewhip:   

[Jet]

As usual I’m late to the party again, but so what, I’m putting my 45 cents in anyhow 

I am just at the stage now i am waiting for my wifes visa,

i wonder if any you guys had this problem before your wife came to your country?

No, I hadn’t. My wife worked up until 1 ½ months before her interview (when school year ended)
At the time of our engagement I presented her with a VISA debit card in case of emergency. She used it exactly 2 times – Once when she was stiffed out of a month’s salary by her local gov’t and once to buy the wedding dress, but both of those times were before we had been wed.

Well i did flip out on the phone the other day, we had a big argument ,
She gave me many excuses why she didn't want to work.
I am trying not to be paranoid but my gut feeling is not good

It sounds like neither of you are taking this marriage thing all that seriously. As her husband, you’ve agreed to take on the responsibility of the welfare of your wife. As a wife, she should not be feeling obligated to provide you with contrived excuses as to why she can’t also do her part to support the family unit. This doesn’t sound like the commitment is *real* for either of you yet.

but the truth we only met towards the end of last year and we got married early this year, we had only known each other a couple of months.
She did have a job earning $5 a day, so i told her to pack it in, because i was happy to send her $200 per week.
she has a daughter that lives with her grandmother in the same town, she gives half the money i send to there up keep, and my wife lives alone in her house.

At this point, we don’t know where your wife lives, so it is difficult to know whether her income is sufficient or not. What do I know, is that prices for everything from food to clothing to electric have been climbing steadily and rapidly for about the past 16 months throughout the FSU. Not like in the west either; it’s entirely possible that the loaf of bread that cost 30 rubles yesterday will cost 60 tomorrow.

The daughter living with the grandmother is a BIG HUGE FLAMING RED FLAG! No matter how she rationalizes it away, it is HIGHLY UNUSUAL for this situation to exist, much much more unusual than in Britain or the States!

I have tried to take all this on face value and tried not to judge her to much, but i can see why there are so many raised eybrows

Yours should be among them!

Guys its not just the teeth, its every time we speak its money …
very nice but its all coming at once

When she comes to uk i will see exactly whats going on with her and i wont need to ask advice

That’s what married life is – it all comes at once! Honestly, it’s starting to sound like you are looking for excuses NOT to bring her to UK at this point. That aside, don’t delude yourself into thinking it will somehow magically get better once you can argue “face to face”, it won’t.

,,, at this stage i havent run up much of a bill with the lawyer.
but really i am only defending myself from the abuse i have been getting,

Again, you seem to be fixated on the financial aspect. When financial considerations override love, anything that flys, floats, or f**ks, is better off rented.

It would be easy for me at this point like many have said, to cut my losses and get a divorce here and now, but after we talk "Daily" on the phone i can sorta see her side, and hmmmm i am just not sure. As for the "trust" thing well i am trying but shes got to work a bit harder for it.

Why does she have to work harder to dispel YOUR insecurity? Sounds like that’s something YOU need to work on! If she hasn’t done anything to explicitly break your trust, then she’s under no obligation to repair it.

Dan

I am a little shocked under the circumstances that your input is this, i am here wondering and debating with people if i am being scammed,, or i am a total fool or even a bad man, to me this all quite serious stuff.
I am a man ,i am carrying out my obligations,  but the point of this topic is am i being taken advantage off, possibly way beyond a "Mans" obligations.

This black and white heroic statement doesnt answer any of my concerns. I guess i should have asked "What have other men been asked fo?, or given?" under the guise of (Mans obligations to his newlywed wife whilst waiting for visa)

I don’t think Dan is out of line with his statement, even if it does seem like “the Waltons” to you. I’m not generally the type to brag or self promote, but here is just a taste of what I did for my wife, once she became “my wife” for you to compare/contrast to your own situation.

• Starting from 2 weeks after arrival (2 ½ months before marriage) Immediately enrolled her at University of Miami, intensive English course – 4 days/wk, + train fare to get TO class, 68 miles R/T each day I picked her up after class (ended too late to take train back)
• Trip home to Russia 3 months after marriage.(once AP was approved) and twice yearly thereafter.
• 4 months of crafting resume/CV and sending it out hundreds of times and taking time off work to drive her to dozens of interviews before she landed a position
• 2 years of driving her to/from work 5 days a week until she got her license – 520 EXTRA commuting miles per week
• 1 year of driving instruction & practice 4 to 5 days per week until she got her own license/car
• Countless hours of conversation and consolation as she went through the adjustment phase and the stress involved in finding meaningful employment
• Countless hours of assistance with preparation for the various certification tests associated with that profession

This list is nowhere near complete. It does not even address anything pertaining to Kolya my stepson. I purposely left out any mention of monetary impact, but do the math in your head and you’ll see that fuel alone exceeds you current expenditure without even touching on the tuition, books, wear & tear, additional utilities & food at home, clothing, medical, entertainment, support for extended family back in Russia, etc., etc…

My point in writing this list is that you have not even begun to scratch the surface and already you are questioning whether you’ve exceeded your “obligation”. Fact is, I never considered it an obligation! I did what I needed to do to support my wife & family, and that, I considered an investment in our future. Nearly five years into this adventure we have a pretty damn good life for ourselves and that initial investment has begun to pay some handsome dividends in the form of a happy marriage and more relaxed lifestyle for the whole family.

I have never been what you would call "flash" with money, never tried to look rich to impress her or anything that stupid, if anything i would always play down wealth, to at least maybe impress her when she arrived

This is the first sensible thing I’ve seen you state.

Thanks for all the help, We have talked for an hour on the phone tonight and everything is fine,  and hopefully this was just another misunderstanding

YIPES! Five pages of chatter  and one phone call clears up the whole thing?  :kissing:
  I’m not buying it

[jakeob]

Jet
 you stated//

YIPES! Five pages of chatter  Arguing and one phone call clears up the whole thing?  Kissing
  I’m not buying it

Thanks for your input , but this thing in my mind is far from over, i have just reached a point that i have took deep breath stood back, and started to mentally prepare myself for my trip back to "Kherson" on Monday.

Still plenty of things for me to address i know.

regards     neil

[BillyB]

So, Billy,
You think that Neil should give his "wife" full access to his bank accounts even though he has admitted here that he may have made a mistake in marrying to soon?

 I don't think Neil should give his wife full access to his bank account at this moment. They have not known each other long enough to earn each other's trust. A wife should have full access to the bank account but one should only propose when you trust the other completely. Not happening here.

Neil cannot go back and undo things (mistakes) he has done, he can only deal with the situation at hand.  Does this mistake (marrying too soon) mean he should make more mistakes?  If one thinks the marriage is a bit of a sham.  Or should he cut his losses and go back to step number two and try to get to know his "wife" better before he gives her full reins in the "marriage?"
KenC

If Neil wasn't married, I would suggest cutting his loses and find someone that he fully trusts but since he's married and they both made a commitment to stick together for better or worse, they should try to resolve their issues. If they can resolve the issues, they will come out stronger people. If they can't resolve the issues, the marriage will be doomed to fail anyway. I'd have more respect for Neil if he exhausted reasonable means to work on getting his marriage on the right path instead of abandoning his commitment. But he needs to be smart and realize it takes two to make the marriage work.

[jakeob]

Billy you said/
I'd have more respect for Neil if he exhausted reasonable means to work on getting his marriage on the right path instead of abandoning his commitment.

I am being very reasonable with my wife i have never stop trying to work things out with her, even though we have done some arguing the last few weeks, my money has gone off like clockwork, and i am still going next week to work things out in person. For better or for worse, at this moment in time that family are living of what i send. Even if this hole thing goes bust, would never just abandon them.

regards

neil

[Doll]

 In my opinion (I only read 2-3 pages  ) the woman just got spoiled.
$800 per month is more than enough . She knows that and is testing the limits.
Just learn to say no.
(speaking of dentists- I am going to get my teeth done and it is going to cost a lot)

[Doll]

 She is just abusing your financial support. She doesn't understand how hard  it is for you to make money and to send her these "chunks".
My younger son is a teenager and sometimes he behaves just same way- the more he gets the more he asks for. I get mad and start on him and then he says something like "Mom, just say no and I will stop"
( I was a single mother with two kids and my husband-to-be sent me $400-500
 a month. It was more than enough)

[OlgaH]

Hi Guys

I am just at the stage now i am waiting for my wifes visa, shes in Ukraine and i am in uk, I send her $200 every week at first she was happy with this but just lately shes been asking extra money for this and that,
She hit me with a $800 bill for dentistry.

I am getting pissed off visits to the western union office, i wonder if any you guys had this problem before your wife came to your country?

thanks
neil

The prices for dentistry in Ukraine:
http://mykhaylyuk.com/eng/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=23

How much money to send your girlfriend or wife you should figure out yourself 

Май 7, 2008
Official report
http://job.ukr.net/news/2008/05/07/25449/

The average salary in Ukraine has exceeded 1700 grivnas

22 мая 2008, 11:54
http://www.vz.ru/news/2008/5/22/170309.html

$1=4,85 grivnas

1700:4,85= $350,52

The lowest salary in Ukraine is in agriculture - 905 grivnas

905:4,85=186,60

How all these people who earn average and low salary live and pay their bills? Can you imagine they don't have the "rich" foreign husbands?

[Doll]

The prices for dentistry are impressing

[Misha]

The prices for dentistry are impressing

Americans must pay quite a bit for dentists. I was looking at the prices for crowns. I just got a new crown (gold) for a molar and it cost my dental plan $400 Canadian. A pure porcelain crown would have cost an extra fifty. Given that the prices are in Euros, this makes the Ukrainian clinics crown either the same price or more expensive than what it cost my dental plan.

[ScottinCrimea]

Olga, to take a "luxury" dental clinic that advertises dental tourism  and try to pass its prices off as typical of Ukraine is a real stretch to say the least.  My own personal experience two years ago was that the x-rays cost me 60 cents and having a crown replaces cost me $10.

How relevant are the average wage statistics other than to show a trend upward.  Most people I know there make more than this through either creative bookkeeping by their employer or other sources of income that aren't reported.

Doll,  How long ago was it that you got $500 a month?  If you adjust for the value of the dollar against what it was only two years ago, the $800 is roughly 30% more than the $500 you received.  Now considering that someone here reprted the inflation rate in Ukraine this year slone as 30%, it may be that this woman is actually gettin less than you did.

The prices quoted in Olga's clinics are actually less than what they would be in the US unless you have insurance, in which case they are about the same or slightly less. But if you figure in insurance payments, deductables, caps on payments, etc. you are paying quite a bit more in the US.  that's why this clinic advertises to foreignors, because they can get a vacation  AND their dental work done for cheaper.

[BC]

Medical tourism (esp. dental) is quite popular in Europe.

[OlgaH]

Olga, to take a "luxury" dental clinic that advertises dental tourism  and try to pass its prices off as typical of Ukraine is a real stretch to say the least.  My own personal experience two years ago was that the x-rays cost me 60 cents and having a crown replaces cost me $10.

How relevant are the average wage statistics other than to show a trend upward.  Most people I know there make more than this through either creative bookkeeping by their employer or other sources of income that aren't reported.

ScottinCrimea,

I agree, that the prices of the dentist Mihailyuk are not average,  and you always can find cheaper, but more expensive than the prices two years ago  And I'm sure that a cement tooth  filling even can be free in some State clinics     

Average salary is average salary, and it means there can be less and much more. 
http://www.jobs.ua/stat/

24 Мая 2008
Average salary in the different regions
http://zik.com.ua/ru/news/2008/05/07/135410

[Doll]

Doll,  How long ago was it that you got $500 a month?  If you adjust for the value of the dollar against what it was only two years ago, the $800 is roughly 30% more than the $500 you received.  Now considering that someone here reprted the inflation rate in Ukraine this year slone as 30%, it may be that this woman is actually gettin less than you did.

First of all I did specify that I was a single mother with two kids which makes the things different, doesn't it?
Then we need to consider the value of 1 dollar in Russia and 1 dollar in Ukraine.
I agree though that between 2001 and 2008 the things have changed but not so much as to not be happy with $800.
Mostly it was $400 for me.