Are you man enough for a RW?

[Turboguy]

Rob,
I would also say that if this mild thread is offensive for you, just wait until you are sitting across the table from a direct RW.  By comparason the bad news delivered here was sugar coated.

KenC

The thing that we often seem to forget here is that RW were not made with cookie cutters.  Just as we are talking about all the types of men who should and should not do this there are as many differences with the women as well.

BC commented that his wife's adjustments were one of the most difficult things he ever experienced.   VWRW has been a real trooper and the things I have gone through were as close to nothing as you could imagine.  I think my adjusting in my first marriage was tougher. 

I have the impression that some of your wives enjoy the finer things in life, shopping in the best stores eating in 5 star restaurants etc.   Then we have Mischa who salts cabbage and to be honest VWRW is much more in that group than the others.  She is a very careful and conservative shopper and our meals out are few and usually in a Chinese Buffet.   I hear all this talk about ice cubes and VWRW likes ice cubes.   VWRW is not that big into Russian food.   RW are not made from cookie cutters any more than we are.

Back to the point I quoted.  I have not had a situation where sitting across the table from her was even the tinest bit difficult.   Yes, like all RW she does not beat around the bush when she wants to say something but she most always says things politely and in a nice way.  Yes Bob may face that issue and he may not.

I think Bob did a good job of putting into words his impression of this thread.  They were the same as mine.  Actually when I first saw the title an image formed in my mind of someone beating on their chest spitting out that they are a real man.  I did also take into account that KenC had been looking for a catchy title and it is.

 
I told my wife about this thread and asked her what type of men should not waste their time with Russian women.  She answered, "Greedy men!"  Then she asked, "Why discuss it?  It will not convince a greedy man to stay home.  A greedy man is greedy, will not change and thinks his way is correct.  Let him waste his time.  He makes the generous men look even better."

You have a wise wife Gator.  That is exactly what I have been saying but I think it has been an interesting thread with some good points being made. 

Ronnie, I think that was a good point about the meaning of selfish and greedy.  I have a feeling though different women may have different views but for the most part the selfish person is the one they want to avoid.  There are a few who look at greedy as someone who does not buy them everything they can dream of having and those are best avoided anyway.

[ambach123]

What is with this term " greedy"?  I don't get it.

Most Americans are careful with their money, and even then we spend 105% of our incomes; is that completely unknown to RW?

Unless one is robbing banks, one would be " greedy " , very " greedy " just to survive. That is the way most of us are, regardless of our incomes, and that should not be a surprise to anyone.

Even people with money did not get there by throwing around money.

[I/O]

Who or what type shouldn't? The eternal question no doubt. IMO one who definitely should NOT or does not have what it takes is the one without a longer term plan. That said, conversely, one who goes into a marriage of any sort and much more so an international marriage must have some type of life plan or goal which goes well beyond the search and capture stage.

By way of example.........

Dear friends, both Australians, both very well educated, both had their career paths mapped out and yet he'd spotted her as a teenager and set his mind on marrying her. He persued her uphill and down dale, ironically enough (33 years ago), when she and her girlfriend were traveling across Europe and even behind the iron curtain into Russia, he found where she was and persued her there and all the way back home to Aus. Yes they eventually married, was he a hopeless romantic? No he wasn't, in fact he was quite a tough nut but his weakness was her (Not a fault, simply a fact). Their marriage was a workable one but a rocky ride for 26 years and 5 children. Later there was a watershed, and she has shared private discussions with me since his death, ultimately, he realised that his focus had been on marryring her and once he did, he had no real idea of what to do with her or what else he wanted in life. Clearly he floundered for 25 or more years because once his goal was achieved he had no plan from there.

The point to be gained from this and it was brought home to sharp focus with me by jb when he advised me to make sure I had a hobby in the garage or similar, is there must be much more to your life than a wife vacancy or once you fill that vacancy you will become a boring and bored person. BTW the above couple I mentioned ended up having 4 of the most blissful and romantic years together in the latter stages before cancer buried him.

I/O

[Blues Fairy]

What is with this term " greedy"?  I don't get it.

Most Americans are careful with their money, and even then we spend 105% of our incomes; is that completely unknown to RW?

Let me explain once again. 

In Russian, the word "жадный" means both:

greedy - eager to obtain; avaricious - and
stingy - niggardly; miserly; ungenerous.

Most women with limited English vocabulary know just the first word but not the second.  Hence they will say "greedy" when what they really mean is "stingy".

[ambach123]

Anyone calling an American " greedy " or " stingy " must have lost his/ her mind.

We are the most spending nation in the history of mankind. A little bit of research on how Americans spend would be very revealing for someone who does not know.

Not everyone has a million dollars and few if any those who have go to FSU looking for a wife. But as a nation we spend 105% of our incomes, be it pauper or CEO.

[Blues Fairy]

Anyone calling an American " greedy " or " stingy " must have lost his/ her mind.
We are the most spending nation in the history of mankind.

Sorry to disappoint you, ambach, but with all due respect to the Great American Nation, I must attest that there certainly are quite a few stingy Americans.   

[ambach123]

Whether America is a great nation or not is irrelevant and besides the point.

America has a deep debt crisis, you probably don't know it; our financial system is beseiged and that is all from Americans spending money they don't have by borrowing.

A few people who may be stingy, because they don't have much and they have to make do from what they have; I see nothing wrong in that.

Someone who can live within his means deserves admiration, stingy or not. RW would be plain stupid to turn him down for that, and go after a guy who spends his way to bankruptcy; last year there were 2 million personal bankrupticies filed.

I am surprised that some basic facts about our country are unknown to some.

[KenC]

ambach,
I have to agree with Blues Fairy.  But "greediness" is all a matter of perception too.  A person may be viewed as greedy by some and thrifty or prudent with his money by others.  It is a totally subjective call.

American prosperity almost works against men going to the fsu too.  If the RW is of the mindset that all Americans are rich, which many do think, then the man can look like a total cheapskate for not offering up the best of the best to her.  It is my understanding that many RM will spend their last ruble to impress a girl which further promotes the idea as the RW has those expectations.
KenC

[groovlstk]

Anyone calling an American " greedy " or " stingy " must have lost his/ her mind.

We are the most spending nation in the history of mankind. A little bit of research on how Americans spend would be very revealing for someone who does not know.

Not everyone has a million dollars and few if any those who have go to FSU looking for a wife. But as a nation we spend 105% of our incomes, be it pauper or CEO.

Ambach, there are many threads on RWD that attempt to decipher why guys get tagged as greedy. In my experience, the G-man label is often misapplied by FSU people and, making matters worse, men don't really understand the small behaviors that can earn the title. The concept of investments, personal savings, 401ks, mortgages, etc. are not understood by many.

The worst mistake you can make is to get indignant in the face of such attitudes; coming to mutual understanding about money and finance requires a lot of patience on both sides.

[KenC]

Whether America is a great nation or not is irrelevant and besides the point.

America has a deep debt crisis, you probably don't know it; our financial system is beseiged and that is all from Americans spending money they don't have by borrowing.

A few people who may be stingy, because they don't have much and they have to make do from what they have; I see nothing wrong in that.

Someone who can live within his means deserves admiration, stingy or not. RW would be plain stupid to turn him down for that, and go after a guy who spends his way to bankruptcy; last year there were 2 million personal bankrupticies filed.

I am surprised that some basic facts about our country are unknown to some.

ambach,
Now I think it is you that is being naive here.  If anything, Russians think our economy is much worse than it really is.  It is plastered all over Russian TV that America is in a depression.
KenC

[BC]

BC commented that his wife's adjustments were one of the most difficult things he ever experienced.   VWRW has been a real trooper and the things I have gone through were as close to nothing as you could imagine.  I think my adjusting in my first marriage was tougher. 

Patience...

[Gator]

Gator,
I am still trying to understand the nuance of language when a woman uses the terms greedy and generous.  At first, it turned me off to her those words used in profiles, etc.  But as I've understood the language better and I have come to understand that greedy is a miss-translation.  A better word would be "selfish."  

As to when they say "generous" they really should be saying "unselfish."

There is a difference.  Blues Fairy explains greedy very well in her post above.

Selfish is about being self-absorbed, a man caring much more about his own feelings and desires than those of his woman or children.  

Thus, a man may be generous and selfish, or greedy and unselfish, or the worst – both greedy and selfish.

A rich man is considered greedy if he buys things for a woman but little more than what a generous, poor man would buy.  Because RW think that AM who come to Russia have more money than most RM, we are expected to buy more than a RM.

I guess the concept derived because until recently RW made much less money than RM.  Russia was more of a man's world than what we are accustomed to in America.  A RW depended upon a man to take care of her, and any signs that he is greedy would prompt her to think that she could not trust him to take care of her.  While we are evaluating the women we meet and date, the RW is concurrently judging us but using different tests.

I have also been told by multiple RW that a RM typically spends more during courtship to impress the woman and his spending declines after marriage.  If this is the typical RW mentality, their only thought is that if a man is greedy/stingy before marriage, he will be insufferable afterwards.

BTW, if a RW earns a good salary, she will still expect the RM to take care of her.  What she makes is hers.   The woman gives birth, takes care of the child, etc.  All a man does is sit on the couch and watch TV.    

[Jet]

I have also been told by multiple RW that a RM typically spends more during courtship to impress the woman and his spending declines after marriage.  If this is the typical RW mentality, their only thought is that if a man is greedy/stingy before marriage, he will be insufferable afterwards.
 

About a year and a half ago, one of Liliya's friends back home was pursued by a young local gentleman. She understood he was interested because she came into work one morning to find he had spent roughly his full months salary to fill the entire law office with roses. This is where the bar is set boys 

[Bob Smith]

Rob,
This:Doesn't seem to fit with this:I would submit that there was very little "bashing" done here.  In fact, your hero, Turboguy, is the only one to post the label of "loser" here.  I would also say that if this mild thread is offensive for you, just wait until you are sitting across the table from a direct RW.  By comparason the bad news delivered here was sugar coated.

BTW, I knew the title was a stretch, but I wanted a good "hook" to get a lot of participation.  And it obviously worked on YOU. 
KenC

Rob,
This:Doesn't seem to fit with this:I would submit that there was very little "bashing" done here.  In fact, your hero, Turboguy, is the only one to post the label of "loser" here.  I would also say that if this mild thread is offensive for you, just wait until you are sitting across the table from a direct RW.  By comparason the bad news delivered here was sugar coated.

BTW, I knew the title was a stretch, but I wanted a good "hook" to get a lot of participation.  And it obviously worked on YOU. 
KenC

KenC,

I was in no way offended by statements in this thread... at least the ones I read.

KenC I said, "Some of what WE've said here is not very nice."  What prompted me to post a reply to TurboGuy was mostly I didn't want to leave the impression that I was the type of guy that derived pleasure from sitting around bashing other people.  I also clearly stated that while there may be an impression of bashing there was actually a lot of constructive talk going on.  I'm just of two minds about the whole thing.  I thought everything I said was true.  Its just after Turboguy's observation I felt a little guilty.  I wasn't offended.  I just thought maybe it wasn't the most mature Christian way of presenting myself.

I agreed with what some of Turboguy said and I agree with some of what you said.   Neither of you is my hero.  I just happen to agree with you two sometimes.

By the way congrats on the "hook."  It worked.  After reading your initial post I kinda thought that's what was going on.  But then I read Misha's post and thought there may be other people that got the wrong impression.  Misha's story to me is the perfect answer to people that say why marry a RW.  He had a problem and he found a very reasonable practical solution to it.  Nobody here would think he isn't "man enough" just because he can't pick up a woman at the grocery store.  And I felt bad that he may have that impression.

Funny story Misha... A few weeks ago I was talking to a woman I was on a date with and we were discussing the whole meeting someone at a grocery store thing.  Our consensus was, who does that?  Maybe it happens, but neither of us had ever done something like that.

[Bob Smith]

Bob, you asked about "uphill struggles."  You just described one - a man who goes to the FSU looking for a wife.  Such men are not focused on more important goals:  getting to know a woman, understanding her culture, and taking the time to build a solid relationship.
 
You can date in the FSU.  It takes more time, more money vs. a one-week search for a wife. 
 
My relationships with UW and RW were more robust than with AW.   Time is compressed, both people realize it, and things naturally progress quickly if both parties are sincerely interested. 

Apples and oranges.  Such are more marriages of families with much deliberation and strong cultural roots. 

I knew I was going to open a can of worms when I made my post about "dating."  I did it anyway because I wanted to see people's impressions.  Its a question mark I am still trying to get my head around.  And yes believe me I am reading other posts.  I've read a ton of threads.  This is only the second one I've posted to.

I don't think expressing some degree of caution and skepticisms is impetuous.  I think that degree of cautiousness has allowed me to avoid marriage/divorce, children (legitimate or otherwise), and guarantee myself a six figure job for life.  It would be easy for me to daydream while looking at pictures of women from the FSU and then hop on a plane to Kiev to "get" a UW.  I wouldn't do something like that.  I am not going to ruin my divorce free life with an adventure like that.  I didn't mean to imply the guys here popped over spent a week and got married.  What I was implying is no matter how many of those 14hr each way round trips you take you will never have as much face time as you would if you dated a girl in your home town.  You implied that you could mitigate this downside.  Your point is noted and I will have to decide whether your explanation is credible enough for me to attempt this endeavor.

[groovlstk]

It would be easy for me to daydream while looking at pictures of women from the FSU and then hop on a plane to Kiev to "get" a UW. I didn't mean to imply the guys here popped over spent a week and got married. 

Bob, such guys do exist, they come to RWD after they realize their wives aren't as foolish as they are and married for $reasons$ other than infatuation. Usually they're looking for advice on how to end things as quickly and painlessly as possible, or their wives have already taken that step and now they are up a certain famous creek without a paddle. They usually disappear for good after telling their horror stories and being directed to the proper legal resources.

It's no feat to find an FSU woman willing to marry you after a week, they're a dime a dozen.

[sudz]

In my opinion, this thread is an attempt to reinforce the claim, that only strong, smart, stunning and charming men may woo heart of FSUwomen; to reinforce it independently from validity of the claim and to make the claim to be a strong belief through repeated assertion.
 In a consequence use the fabricated belief as a confirmation that married RWD’s members are superior ones.

I'm afraid that I came away with exactly this impression as well. As a guy who admitted in his introductory thread that I'm not the kind of guy to pursue a RW woman, there's alot of innuendo that I'm too weak or socially lacking to get one.

If the Ukraine were parked 20 miles off the Texas coast it'd probably be a different story.

I read your stated reason for making this thread but any number of equivalent approaches would have met your purpose without implying a favorable view toward already married forum members: i.e. What qualities in a man aid his search for a RW? or Is there any qualities which make it impossible to get a RW?

wtg, vwrw, for calling out the emperor's new clothes.

[Ronnie]

Blues Fairy's definitions are consistent with my understanding as well.  Greed is what acquires money and wealth.  Without a certain amount of it, one can have little motivation to build a business or climb the corporate latter.

Generosity is not usually found in such people.  They are obsessed with acquiring more; so giving away, unless it's with expectation of a return runs counter to their nature.

The RM who filled the room with roses, spending a whole month's salary, clearly was making an investment with an expectation of a return on that investment. 

True generosity and unselfishness is when there is no expectation of anything in return.  It's stuff you do for strangers as well as for friends, family members and loved ones. 

It's indicative of a great man and every woman should become practiced at knowing the difference.

[Misha]

The RM who filled the room with roses, spending a whole month's salary, clearly was making an investment with an expectation of a return on that investment. 

I agree. Sometimes the return is status. Some people make a show out of being generous as a way to display either their wealth or their generosity. Filling a room with flowers is not meant to impress one woman, it is a spectacle for all the others that will go into that room.

[ambach123]

I can only give the example of the richest man in the world.

He drives a beat up car and buys his suits at discount stores.

I don't think he has given a rose to anyone ever.

He also plans to give away more than 40 billion dollars to charitable causes.

We all know who he is. His name is Warren Buffett.

There is a book " The millionaire next door " ; people who have made it are very frugal with their money. They are not onstentatious, that is for sure.

For RW not to know this is incredibly naive. To think that some guy who is spending his way to bankruptcy ( and there were two million of them last year alone) is somehow better than someone who spends with caution, is just simply hard to believe. Now these two million people actually filed for bankruptcy; the stats are that 76% of all Americans have a "negative" net worth, that is they owe more than they have. I don't think throwing around roses would be prudent for them.

Small wonder that the failure rate is so high.

[Misha]

The trick is to find someone who is not impressed by ostentatious displays of wealth and crude efforts to buy affection. This is why the first weeks/months of courtship are important. What are her core values? You have to figure this out before you get married.

[I/O]

ambach: You are not "Getting it". B/F tried to explain and I'll expand a little. "Greedy" as you will hear it used (In RW terms) describes the guy who is too stingy to buy her a drink on the street for example, or a guy who buys one for himself and fails to buy one for her..............................and so on, a guy who is not observant of her basic needs. The RW who applies this term to the non supply of flowers and chocolates isn't worth knowing (With the exception of birthdays and womens day).

As to the other thing of RM spending to their last rouble when courting a woman, yes it happens and yes there is far too many women who expect this and yes there is a certain "spoiling" among RW for which RM are wholly responsible and we as WM come in on the wrong end of that process. For the most part, I have noticed a great many RW, even my wife to an extent with a hint of a "Princess Mentality". This is simply something, if you persue this process, you'll have to learn to deal with.

I/O

[Blues Fairy]

He drives a beat up car and buys his suits at discount stores.
We all know who he is. His name is Warren Buffett.

The very same who has made it to top 10 on Forbes's Best-Dressed Billionaires list? 

[KenC]

I'm afraid that I came away with exactly this impression as well. As a guy who admitted in his introductory thread that I'm not the kind of guy to pursue a RW woman, there's alot of innuendo that I'm too weak or socially lacking to get one.

Sorry Sudz, you got that backazzward.  No one here said that if you don't have a RW you are......... or you must be...........  All that was pointed out is that there are some characteristics that some men have that make them a high risk to be successful in this venture.  Don't hold us accountable for your own insecurities.

If the Ukraine were parked 20 miles off the Texas coast it'd probably be a different story.

Well it aint and never will be so all Ukrainian women are safe.

I read your stated reason for making this thread but any number of equivalent approaches would have met your purpose without implying a favorable view toward already married forum members: i.e. What qualities in a man aid his search for a RW? or Is there any qualities which make it impossible to get a RW?
wtg, vwrw, for calling out the emperor's new clothes.

Damn tootin the old married bastards feel good about themselves!  We know exactly how difficult this is and are proud to be in the select few that succeeded.  If our confidence and sense of accomplishment intimidates you, too bad.

You are part of the American problem of "entitlement."  You and others think that everyone is entitled to the same opportunities.  Well, I got a news flash for you, it ain't ever gonna happen dude.  There is always going to be someone smarter, richer, better looking and more charming that will have the opportunities you don't.  And that goes for me too.  I am so sick and tired of the American expectation of being coddled through life and when things don't go your way, the incessant whining begins.  You once described your self as having "of character only envied by overcooked green beans" and wisely proclaimed "I prefer a quiet, peaceful solitary existence."  It is a good thing because a guy like you would be eaten alive in the fsu.  That is of course if you ever found your balls to actually go.  It is far easier to sit in your Barcalounger and criticize those that went, conquered and now enjoy the fruits of their success.
KenC

[Bob Smith]

I can only give the example of the richest man in the world.

He drives a beat up car and buys his suits at discount stores.

I don't think he has given a rose to anyone ever.

He also plans to give away more than 40 billion dollars to charitable causes.

We all know who he is. His name is Warren Buffett.

There is a book " The millionaire next door " ; people who have made it are very frugal with their money. They are not onstentatious, that is for sure.

For RW not to know this is incredibly naive. To think that some guy who is spending his way to bankruptcy ( and there were two million of them last year alone) is somehow better than someone who spends with caution, is just simply hard to believe. Now these two million people actually filed for bankruptcy; the stats are that 76% of all Americans have a "negative" net worth, that is they owe more than they have. I don't think throwing around roses would be prudent for them.

Small wonder that the failure rate is so high.

Let's all take a moment to learn our American billionaires.  There are a lot of them and I can understand how people get mixed up.

First of all Warren Buffet is only barely the richest man in the world.  Last year or the year before I think it was a Mexican.  Yes I know I was shocked too.  Given the tales of woe I hear from those guys when they cross the border you would think there was no dough down there.  By the way there are more Russians on this year's list of the top twenty five richest people than Americans.  I'm thinking of opening a RM AW dating site.  What do you guys think?

Back to Buffet... Buffet doesn't drive a pickup.  Like any self respecting pimp Buffet rolls a sweet Caddy.  I think you're thinking of the now deceased Sam Walton.  And while their philosophies about money may have some overlap they definitely had some major differences that shade how people look at them.

If you are holding Buffet up as some ideal that good Russian girls will admire you may have a problem there.  Even in this country there are places (RED states) where Buffet's thoughts on wealth are reviled...

Sam and Warren were and are complicated individuals.  I don't know if either would escape the "greedy" moniker even if they went out with a "good" RW.

Given the debate as to what will and will not earn a normal guy the Mark of Cain with RW I can tell you the extreme behavior of those two would cheese off a lot of women.


PS  Any RW reading this RED States are not what you think... actually they are quite the opposite.