How To Select the Right One?

[ambach123]

I am now communicating with  10+ ladies in Kiev. I found them either directly or through local Kiev agencies.
They are all interested in me. They know about me, my business etc. I am financially well off so that helps, but it may add other issues.

They are all attractive but not very attractive, I was advised to stay clear of model types. Also I have stayed away from anyone younger than 29. Right or wrong, I was told that a very young and/ or very attractive woman usually has a different agenda and a lasting marriage may not be one of them. I am fine with a reasonably attractive lady.

I plan to visit Kiev soon.

It is my impression that finding a girl and bringing her to USA is the easy part, finding the right girl and making a marriage last is the more difficult part.

I have an array of choices.

I believe how it would happen, that I would meet with each of the ladies for an hour or two, and meet with those again that interest me.

I would be there for a week, and then come back to USA, and then go there again, provided the things are promising.

I am very leery because some of the experiences of others which have not been good.

How do I choose the right one? What do I look for? Can I filter them even before I meet with them?

I apologize if this has been discussed before, if so I would appreciate a link.

Thanks for the help.

[Kuna]

Ambach...

Sounds like you're moving along nicely.  Good work!

Some of the things you say below conflict a little with my own thoughts when starting out - but of course there are many ways to be successful in this journey.

So...

I am now communicating with  10+ ladies in Kiev. I found them either directly or through local Kiev agencies.
They are all interested in me.

Them being interested in you is a good start but my feelings on interest is that most genuine women will be skeptical about any man until he meets her face to face.

MANY men promise to visit and never leave home... some do visit and are nothing like they described prior to meeting.

The fact that you've had a broad search is a good thing but the way you proceed will actually depend on what you've done up to now...  I'll explain my thought son this later.

They know about me, my business etc. I am financially well off so that helps, but it may add other issues.

Them knowing about you is a good thing but some may suggest talking too much about your business and/or wealth prior to meeting may do two things:

1. Make the women think you're quite shallow and superficial because many places outside of America think it's inappropriate to talk about personal wealth like many Americans tend to do (You might be surprised how many Americans we've seen come in here and quickly establish their "wealth credentials" early on...  maybe it's a cultural thing???)

2. Disclosing your wealth might add extra motivation for an in-genuine woman to be patient - and persistent in her planning to fleece you.  My approach was to understate my personal wealth, income, etc because I didn't feel it was appropriate to share that information with every woman I wrote to - it'd be like telling a woman at home during a first or second date how much I earned, or what houses and investments I owned...  not a great look to most women.

Anyway...

They are all attractive but not very attractive, I was advised to stay clear of model types.

I'm not sure dating less attractive women increases the chances of marital bliss but I guess each to his own. 

Depending on your personality and character something you'll have to get used to is the attention your future-wife will probably get after she immigrates.  My wife (at 20 weeks pregnant) still gets looks when we're out shopping, etc and more than once men have approached her "with interest".     I guess it's very flattering for both of us but I know some men out there might struggle with similar "competition".

Also I have stayed away from anyone younger than 29. Right or wrong, I was told that a very young and/ or very attractive woman usually has a different agenda and a lasting marriage may not be one of them. I am fine with a reasonably attractive lady.

Age is relative I guess...  and while 29 isn't "young" to some" it may be VERY young to others.  You don't mention your age or the potential age gap but I'd suggest you consider "Stage of Life" when considering the age of potential partners.

The age debate is one well worn out in here and ultimately the decision is up to the man and the women.  It's probably worth noting though that many would say success decreases as age gaps increase.

One positive is the 29yr age limit.  Something we've DEFINITELY seen is an almost predictable immaturity (not very serious) characters of women under 25.

I actually don't blame the very young ones for not being so serious because there's less need or desperation as there has been in days gone by.  I get the impression most of the "very young ones" like the idea of meeting westerners... maybe dating some...  accepting gifts or even fantasising about moving overseas but ultimately they DO have options at home.

I think all women around the age of 29 have started thinking about their future, and for many about their fertility...  Of course children is another thing to consider.

I plan to visit Kiev soon.

EXCELLENT!     This is the only way your hopes have a chance of materialising... and no matter how much you write, call or think...  everything becomes obvious when you meet!

By the way...  your first trip will probably be something you'll never forget - and will most likely be an experience you cannot imagine.  If you're lucky (as I was) everything will fall in place and you'll meet your perfect partner on your first trip!

It is my impression that finding a girl and bringing her to USA is the easy part, finding the right girl and making a marriage last is the more difficult part.

I think any marriage is a challenge - whether that be to a UW or an AW...  they require work, and trust, and imagination...  but marriage to the right woman makes it all worthwhile.

How do you identify the "right" woman???  That's difficult to describe.

Some will simply say 'Time, take your time."

That's good advice even though I really didn't follow it...   

I think if a man is genuine in his intentions he'll be better equipped to identify genuine women.

May I give you an example?  I really believe that a man focused on a girls character, interests, goals and values will OBVIOUSLY be much better positioned to make the big decisions than a man (even subconsciously) focused on age, cup size, beauty or other more superficial characteristics.

I always feel a little trepidation when I see men come here who are clearly aiming way outside of their league (or the league they would play in at home) because it can really be intoxicating.

Keeping a level head will be your greatest asset over the coming weeks, months and years... Personally I wrote my goals and desires down...  I even wrote down what sort of girl I was looking for a why I wanted certain things.  It helped me maintain focus when I was feeling giddy with anticipation before and during my first trip.

I have an array of choices.

Choices are good - but don't let the number of choices confuse you... as I said it can become intoxicating.

I believe how it would happen, that I would meet with each of the ladies for an hour or two, and meet with those again that interest me.

How you approach your trip will depend quite heavily on what you've done to date.

Some things to think of are:

- Do the women know (explicitly) you're visiting others or do they think you'll be traveling to meet them.

There's several thoughts on this... some say DON'T volunteer information about others...  other say you should be clear in saying "I'm visiting and would like to meet you for coffee and cake... of course if we both feel like we want to spend more time together then that would be very nice/wonderful/cool/giddyup!" 

The second approach was more like what I did...  as I felt more comfortable not making promises before meeting.

I would be there for a week, and then come back to USA, and then go there again, provided the things are promising.

It's up to you but a week isn't a long time for a first trip... Is there a reason you would make such a short trip???

Seriously, I think one of the best approaches is to travel with a GENUINE interest in the location you're visiting...  and to actually treat it like a holiday.  I think most women would be impressed with a man who was worldly, interested and interesting - rather than one who's mantra was "I'm here to get me a wife".  Maybe an exaggeration - but think about how you would feel in the reverse role.

I am very leery because some of the experiences of others which have not been good.

You should be cautious but not paranoid. If you prepare, are genuine yourself,  introspective and have you feet firmly planted on the ground you'll have a much greater chance of success than many that have gone before you.

There's no guarantees for any of us but I believe it IS possible to do things and act in certain ways that improve your chances of success.

How do I choose the right one? What do I look for? Can I filter them even before I meet with them?

Ahhhhh... this is the key...  What you look for is TOTALLY up to you but beware that your choices and decisions WILL have an impact on your chances of success.  This search is SO individual and while we all try to generalise there are no valid generalisations.

Yes, you can filter them before you meet them...  but how?  I personally believe you need to understand yourself in detail to be able to "filter" properly...  but that's very subjective.

I apologize if this has been discussed before, if so I would appreciate a link.

No need to apologise...  I think you'll find many men here who are happy to help. No question is too simple because we understand exactly how you feel before your first trip.

It's an exciting time... enjoy it...  and I hope you find what I found on my first trip.



Sorry for such a long response... 

[KenC]

Ambach,
You got some great advice from Kuna.

I would like to add my 2 cents here too.  Ten is not an unmanagable number of women to meet in a week.  I think you will be surprised how many women will be eliminated in the first 30 seconds of meeting face to face.  Not that they are bad women, just not the woman for you.  I think you need to understand that your first trip IS a filtering action in itself.  This is just the introductory phase of your journey.  Hopefully you will return home with one or two viable candidates to pursue in a future relationship.  And then again, you may come home with no good prospects at all.  Best of luck to you.
KenC

[Gator]

Ambach,

For the most part, you have done well so far.  Kuna and KenC gave you wise advice, and both men are married to FSUW.

Kiev is an easy place to navigate and there is much to do independent of women.  However, add the task of meeting 10 women while recovering from jet lag, and I agree with Kuna that one week is not enough.  Just scheduling a meeting with each of the 10 is not easy, much less deciding about follow-up meetings. 

I would suggest that you get on the phone now and talk, talk, talk with the 10.  Cream rises to the top if you give it time.  Then divide them into two groups: 

-  3-4 that appeal to you the most and are enthusiastic about you

-  the remainder. 

Schedule an evening dinner with each of the 3-4 best, and see the others for coffee/tea or backup.  Save a couple of days at the end for follow-up with those who still appeal to you after meeting them.  Do not be surprised if a couple of women eliminate themselves upon learning that you are meeting others.   

Do not talk any more about your financial success.  The worst part is now that you have spilled the beans that you have money, you better not be a tightwad.  RW abhor GREEDY men, particularly men who have money.  This does not mean that you need to take them shopping (don’t do that even if some women suggest it), yet it requires that you take them to a good restaurant and suggest something special for your date (short of lobster).   You will buy some roses.  Also, you do not complain about the prices of anything – you pay and smile and say that you enjoyed it.   You are there to meet some women and learn about them – not to save money.

Get on the phone and start talking more to these women.  Then post your thoughts.  Tell us what you like about some women. 

By the way, this trip will be one of your most fun-filled weeks in your life.   

[Al_C]

I am now communicating with  10+ ladies in Kiev. I found them either directly or through local Kiev agencies.
They are all interested in me. They know about me, my business etc. I am financially well off so that helps, but it may add other issues.

Yes indeed it does.  Good women appreciate that you have enough financial stability to take care of them and any kids they have, but too big of a pot of gold attracts those whose idea of a good husband is a sugar daddy who enriches them with lots of play money.  We have all seen the American gold diggers.  They have 'em in Russia too.

Also I have stayed away from anyone younger than 29.

How old are you?  A big age gap causes problems to the extent that her idea of a good time is very different than yours.  What did you do for fun when you were under 29?  Different stuff than you do now?  Are you ready to start doing the under 29 stuff again?

It is my impression that finding a girl and bringing her to USA is the easy part, finding the right girl and making a marriage last is the more difficult part.

You got that right.  As Elena Petrova put it, anybody can get married.  The trick is to stay married (applies to AW too).

How do I choose the right one? What do I look for? Can I filter them even before I meet with them?

If someone had the magic answer to that, he would get rich selling the answer on this board, and all of us would have the "Married" category in our profiles checked off.

Different things work for different men.  I can tell you what works best for me, but then you might try it and it might not work for you.  What I can tell you now is write much and talk much.  Those things may cost a few bucks, but they are a hell of a lot cheaper than going there.  You do want to go there without a doubt, but you want to get the very best prospects lined up before you even get on the plane.  The more you communicate now, the better your prospect list will be.

Good luck to you, and don't forget to start a trip report thread here and keep us filled in as it progresses.

And play down the money part.  When you are there, of course you pay for everything, including meals in restaurants and drinks at the bar, but being too ostentatious with the cash will create expectations that this is what you do all the time, creating the wrong impression and attracting the wrong women.

[ambach123]

Thanks for the comments, specially Kuna for your detailed response.

I plan to spend about ten days and meet with about 15 ladies, many of them arranged by an agency.  These ladies meet my criteria, have already seen my profile, and have shown an interest in meeting with me. This would be merely an introductory mission. I plan to come back and sleep over it; not make any decisions.

The cost of the trip would be around 4- 5 K, all inclusive.

$1300 air fare.
$ 1000 apartment rental in Kiev for ten nights.
$750 Agency fees
$ 1500 food, miscellaneous.

After a few months I would go there again and meet with two or three selected ones.

I don't know if this is right way to do it; but one thing I have read on this board repeatedly that I should not fall in love with anyone in a short time. I want to avoid that temptation.

Decisions made in haste are repented in leisure.

[DKMM]

Absolutely do not fall in love on this trip if at all possible.

I do wonder at your high agency and misc fees.

While its good to meet many ladies, if you meet one that you feel is special try not to waste too much time meeting others or you will regret that lost time later (I think Kuna said something like that once too).

Also, I don't know about the come back and sleep on it thing.  If you meet the right lady for you, you aren't going to tell yourself you don't like her.  For me (I met 5) I knew pretty far from the end of my trip who I wanted to pursue.  But at the same time I did not try to make her feel like she was it for me until the end.

The age thing is relative.  I dated nobody older than 23 and plenty of girls around that age are dead serious about finding a mate.  To me they acted like 35 year old childless divorcee's with the bio clock buzzing.  But you can't be older than mid 30s or they are just gold diggin.

[GreginGa]

Just my 2 cents. Try and concentrate on the girls that speak English and are willing to learn. You will find that so much is lost in translation. I got very lucky in the fact that my wife spoke English. My Southern accent was a curveball for her but she did ok. You really dont want to have a terp tag along on every date. That would get expensive as well. We'll be in Kiev from Sept 12th -26th. Be very careful with those professional daters. Kiev is an expensive city these days. It wasnt so bad back in 2001,but now is a different story. I'm just a big advocate of trying to meet the nice girl walking to work or working in the cafe. Shoot me an email sometime and I'll be happy to help you out if I can. I've been married to a beautiful Ukrainian girl from just outside Kharkov for 5 years. I've made 17 trips to Ukraine since 2001. I certainly dont have all the answers,but I'll help you if I can. Send me a private message and I'll give you my number. I talk much better and faster than i type.

[BC]

IIRC someone way back mentioned wearing a aluminum foil hat to keep your mind clear of external influences and maintain objective thought processes.. nowdays I would suggest a much more effective solution: wrap your nuggets instead.

[BillyB]

I am very leery because some of the experiences of others which have not been good.

How do I choose the right one? What do I look for? Can I filter them even before I meet with them?

You can filter some out through letters and phone calls. After you find ones you'd like to go on a second date with, make sure they're into you too. Some women will be interested in you and want you to show you the town and every club out there. Other's will seriously consider having you meet family and friends to get their opinions and they will invite you to have dinner at their place. Are you looking for a family oriented woman or one that likes to party? Leave your emotions at home and use the big head to do all the thinking. Make the wrong choice, the lifetime of happiness you're dreaming about might turn into a lifetime of hell.

[LiveFromUkraine]

I really can't answer your question regarding finding the right one.  The reason is because I didn't find my wife the same way as other men.  I do suggest you take up GregInGa offer in messaging him.  He is a great guy that really want to help others.  Not only him but take head to KenC.  Another great guy that has a wealth of information.  Both of those guys know what it took to meet women and make a marriage last.

Now the only thing I can add based on my experience is to NOT look for a wife.  I know that others have been successful but I do believe that far too many have failed because they wanted a wife too much.  I personally think you should have the mind set of becoming friends and allowing that to develop.  Please read KenC's trip report to see what I mean.  I have read the report and I have also experienced some of the same things.  I didn't meet my wife through agencies like most men here.  I did become friends with her first which laid the foundation of a pretty fantastic marriage. 


This is only my opinion of course.




Thomas

[Pike]

I'm just a big advocate of trying to meet the nice girl walking to work or working in the cafe.

I have read this or words of similar meaning many times on these boards.  Sounds very romantic
and is supposed to steer you away from gals who are actively looking for a WM (as that apparently has some
bad connotations).

However, this naively ignores the fact that these very same 'nice' girls are listed with some agency
or have posted their profiles on dating sites.  It's just that the guy didn't first see them on the Web;
he sees them at the cafe and thinks they are thus more 'pure.'

I have met hundreds of FSU women (in business situations as well as in apartment elevators, grocery
stores, etc) and have yet to meet any single ones who are not listed somewhere.  He!! even a lot of
the married ones are listed somewhere on the Web.

[GreginGa]

I have read this or words of similar meaning many times on these boards.  Sounds very romantic
and is supposed to steer you away from gals who are actively looking for a WM (as that apparently has some
bad connotations).

However, this naively ignores the fact that these very same 'nice' girls are listed with some agency
or have posted their profiles on dating sites.  It's just that the guy didn't first see them on the Web;
he sees them at the cafe and thinks they are thus more 'pure.'

Well I certainly can't speak for everyone,but I do Know which approach worked best for me and I've met my fair share of gals that are certainly not listed on a website. The agencies in Kiev are packed full of pro daters. I've witnessed this first hand with guys that were going the ole dating agency route. Like I said, I got lucky. I met my wife sitting on a bench in the trainstation and you can bet your ass she was never listed. Not that there's anything wrong with being listed. I'm not say that there is. I am saying my way worked best for me and it was a hellava lot less costly. If you keep yourself in good shape and exude self confidence and smile a lot there is no reason whatsoever a guy cant walk up to a girl on the street and be having dinner with her the next evening.

[GreginGa]

I screwed up my post above. Looks like I lumped it in with Pike's reply. My bad.

[Admin]

I screwed up my post above. Looks like I lumped it in with Pike's reply. My bad.

No problem - except that I am kind of confused reading what you posted and distinguishing it from Pike's.

If you want to re-do it in a post following this one, I will remove the other one that is messed up.

Or.... send me a PM and let me know if you need me to edit or do anything to clarify.

- Dan

[TW1970]

I plan to spend about ten days and meet with about 15 ladies, many of them arranged by an agency. 

Hey Ambach123, which agency are you using? BTW, I sent you a PM awhile back.

[ambach123]

Inter dating Kiev

www.InterDating.ua

[msmoby_ru]

Hi Ambach 123

I am now communicating with  10+ ladies in Kiev. I found them either directly or through local Kiev agencies.

TEN... ? Sorry to differ with some other worthy contributors, but IMHO I think you need to ask yourself how serious *you* are about finding a wife.

YEP.. I believe in WOVO..  You can write to lots of ladies and communicate by phone / email. You will then have a pretty good idea if there is a chemistry.

Also, time has moved on, and these ladies are more sophisticated in their appraisals of western men. Western men are far more common on the streets of Kiev.

 My wife blew out two guys that could have had a chance, when she realised they were of the WMVM philosophy and she was part of a tight schedule of meetings  !  ...

This is your first trip and if you're not already feeling really keen about a particular lady, you have nothing to lose.

There is no RIGHT way ... we are talking about two unique people finding each other.

I was advised to stay clear of model types. Also I have stayed away from anyone younger than 29.

Hmm, with that attitude there would be lots of "model types" waiting on the shelf... "looks aren't everything" works BOTH ways... let's be honest , here .. Most of us are looking / have FSU women and how they look / pride in appearance comes into it..  ( puts on tin helmet...)

A minimum age ?...that depends on what you want. You don't need to take anyone's advice.

I plan to visit Kiev soon.

Don't take too long.. or someone will get the lady you might be interested in, first ! GO..

..making a marriage last is the more difficult part.

finding is "easy" - it's the latter bit that's hard !

Good luck 

[AnastassiaAsh]

YEP.. I believe in WOVO..  You can write to lots of ladies and communicate by phone / email. You will then have a pretty good idea if there is a chemistry.

 My wife blew out two guys that could have had a chance, when she realised they were of the WMVM philosophy and she was part of a tight schedule of meetings  !  ...

Msmoby_ru, nice to see there is another guy who thinks this way. Pictures, phone calls and now camera on Skype can definitely tell you almost everything you need to know about chemistry with this or that lady. This is my opinion. Most men really struggle with that. Msmoby_ru, I am glad you don't have any problem with that.  Looking at your wife, it is clear though. 

As to 'visit many', i didn't even let anybody come and visit me if they wanted to see many women. I prefer to go serious from the very beginning and correspond enough till the man is sure he would want to visit just me.  If he doesn't understand i am worthy that and it is just the very minimum he can do, then why even do this?

[groovlstk]

As to 'visit many', i didn't even let anybody come and visit me if they wanted to see many women. I prefer to go serious from the very beginning and correspond enough till the man is sure he would want to visit just me.  If he doesn't understand i am worthy that and it is just the very minimum he can do, then why even do this?

My wife felt exactly the same way, if I'd planned to meet any other women in Moscow during our initial time together, she'd have tossed me to the elektrichka tracks.

This is not to say that it's the "best" method, as others have said one size does not fit all. It's a very individual thing and guys really need to think this one through to find which is most comfortable. 

[Pike]

As to 'visit many', i didn't even let anybody come and visit me if they wanted to see many women. I prefer to go serious from the very beginning and correspond enough till the man is sure he would want to visit just me.  If he doesn't understand i am worthy that and it is just the very minimum he can do, then why even do this?

My, my quite noble of you Anastassia.  I have lost track of whether you met your two husbands to be in FSU or in America.  But let's assume for this discussion that you would have this same mind set if the man came to first visit with you in FSU.

So you have made it clear to him that you will only accept him for a visit if he is there only to see you.  You and he spend considerable time in prior correspondence and you both are sure that he/she is the one.

But, upon meeting, you determine within the first 10 minutes that the both of you have made a horrible mistake in evaluation and you cannot stand to be in his presence.  Again, we know that did not happen with you; but let's assume it did happen, just as it has happened hundreds of times with others as reported on these discussion boards.

Now, what are your ex-post feelings about requiring that this man spend the money and his scarce vacation time to come and see only you?

[GreginGa]

It's called a solid back up plan. Now when I say solid that means having an avenue to meet another girl at the drop of a hat. Like Pike said, sometimes these girls might never show or just turn and run after 10 minutes or when the guy refuses to buy the $200 jeans that she just happens to stare at in the store window during their first stroll down Khreshatic. My wife wouldve never given me a second chance after our initial meeting had she thought I went to see another while seeing her. Of course I didnt see another,but I'm just saying. It's way too expensive and time consuming to tie yourself to 1 girl and not have an out. You have got to have an out.

[msmoby_ru]

But, upon meeting, you determine within the first 10 minutes that the both of you have made a horrible mistake in evaluation and you cannot stand to be in his presence.  Again, we know that did not happen with you; but let's assume it did happen, just as it has happened hundreds of times with others as reported on these discussion boards.
 

My, my Pike, you seem to be rather fond of trying to draw conclusions based on "dodgy" data !  How do we know the criteria of choosing "the one" to visit / "allow" to visit..  Perhaps one doesn't put enough faith in one's research / instinct or one's wallet is a restriction?

I suggest that if you've made such a mistake within minutes, then one's research / instinct, criteria need some serious reexamination, and learn from it.

As I've said, I had success with WOVO, and I see others had success with WMVM. There isn't a RIGHT formula to draw a definitive conclusion.. it depends on two unique people and their circumstances

Now, what are your ex-post feelings about requiring that this man spend the money and his scarce vacation time to come and see only you?

Learn something for next time.. if there IS a next time !  You assume that the lady hasn't taken time from her job, too. 

[msmoby_ru]

It's called a solid back up plan. Now when I say solid that means having an avenue to meet another girl at the drop of a hat. Like Pike said, sometimes these girls might never show or just turn and run after 10 minutes or when the guy refuses to buy the $200 jeans that she just happens to stare at in the store window during their first stroll down Khreshatic. My wife wouldve never given me a second chance after our initial meeting had she thought I went to see another while seeing her. Of course I didnt see another,but I'm just saying. It's way too expensive and time consuming to tie yourself to 1 girl and not have an out. You have got to have an out.

What a confusing post ..

Advice -  - have a "solid back up plan"
Real-life experience -"My wife wouldve never given me a second chance after our initial meeting had she thought I went to see another while seeing her. Of course I didnt see another"

Hmmm... so let's discuss the "solid backup plan" - assumptions - you have the contact details for a dating agency in the area - you can call them if all else fails - GREAT... and what exactly do you expect to find at short notice, and she'll be thinking WHY are you here, who did you REALLY come to see.

Maybe you have been chatting with more than one lady from the area - just in case - "be careful" - I know of one AM who did this with two FSU ladies based in Cyprus.. they compared notes and found out that one was plan A and t'other was told he might surprise her... they wanted to let him come and BOTH meet him at the airport to tell him "goodbye".. luckily I persuaded them to come clean, and he didn't bother to come..

Ask yourself.. WHAT are you doing here? Are you trying to find a wife or running an exercise in "risk management"

[ambach123]

Looking through the archives, I found the following by Jack Bragg, I will paraphrase it.

" In dealing with about 2,000 AM over the years, my experience has been that almost 85% of the first meetings don't turn into second meetings, regardless of how long they had been writing to each other".

I have no way of knowing how true it is, but I would take this for its face value and see no reason why it would be false.

A trip to FSU would cost a minimum of 5K if not much more, and many of us don't have much vacation time.

A person who disregards these stats is either incredibly naive or  an unbelievable optimist, both to his own peril.