To Tell The Truth

[KenC]

Hi Ken, even Belgians can watch Holywood movies, and get US tv serials, and visit Disneyland Paris.... We know loads about  your nation

And of course Hollywood movies, Us TV shows and Disneyland are all accurate portrays of life in America!   

Please tell me you were being facetious!
KenC

[OlgaH]

And of course Hollywood movies, Us TV shows and Disneyland are all accurate portrays of life in America!   

Especially Disneyland

[groovlstk]

I have read in the archives so many times, AM went to FSU and brought back women, only to lose them in a few months of arrival. Is it the man or is it unmet expectaions , whatever they may be. I believe it is a combination. I think the RW do not quite understand the extent of social isolation.

Not to nitpick, but these men didn't "lose" their women, as they had never won them in the first place.

[msmoby_ru]

And of course Hollywood movies, Us TV shows and Disneyland are all accurate portrays of life in America!   

Please tell me you were being facetious!
KenC

Hmmm.. are you telling me Santa Barbara ISN'T a fly on the wall documentary, reality tv...?!! 

No... ?   :-o

Whatever was that stuck firmly in my cheek at the time of posting....?

BTW never underestimate Belgium.. a country that ran really well without a central govt for months... We could learn a lot from Belgians, Ken !

[Ronnie]

Kinda make you wonder if writing ahead of time is wise, doesn't it?

As to losing K1s after they get here, I know of two K-1 who didn't stay and it was the AM's who sent them packing not the FSUW who chose to return.  My case, the lady was great but her oldest being on drugs and the younger daughter turning into a demanding princess kinda killed the deal.

The other case I know of, the RW walked into the AM's nice suburban home and said, "Mmmm, so many bedrooms; which one is mine?" 

[Taz]

I honestly think protracted writing before you go is a waste of time. You are pretty much having a conversation with a stranger that has little real meaning to either of you. Even a 5 minute meeting in person can tell you quite a bit more than a bunch of letters.

I personally downplay my finiancial situation or job position. I allude to something like I live somewhat comfortably. I don't speak much about my personal posessions or anything regarding net worth. You don't need to quote your salary range or anything regarding it. They don't really know how that compares to them anyway. If they do then OBVIOUSLY they are VERY experienced in dating foreign men!

[Jumper]

groov saud

Not to nitpick, but these men didn't "lose" their women, as they had never won them in the first place.

actually groov , i think that was  a perfect nit to pick?

establish a true relationship , to the point ofBOTH  wanting to spend the rest of thier lives together
(engagement or marriage in a K1 or K3)
is the whole idea.

ambach -
since she is relocating she needs to have honest  and yes blunt description of exactly what she can expect.
even then the reality  will not match her expectations both good or bad.

but if you have a strong established realtionship ,built o ntrust and love fo reach other ,  which you should have before proposing?

then the differences i nher perception of what her klife woul dbe ,, veerses her own reality with it ,isnt not going to be th edeal brealer.

WHEN to provide this detailed decription of how you elives will be,, . is dabatable ?
.but obviuosly before you propose!

i wouldnt think it appropriate until you are both somewhat established as a couple though..

and i wouldnt get too hung up on old stats on this site,
 or some particular musings from a random RW , and write her off before meeting her.

(obviously there are cases i would,but not simply from a distorted,
 and likely temporary ,view of life in the US)





 

[ambach123]

Following two questions come up invariably after the exchange of a few emails.

1. What do you do?

2. Can you tell me something about your " living place "? Do you have any photographs?

I tend to believe that these are legitimate questions.

I have three choices.

1. I can ignore the questions, in which case I may lose them, they would wonder why I don't answer.

2. I can give them some made up answer, which would be untrue.

3. I can tell them the truth, which I have been doing.

I live in an over 3,000 sq. feet townhouse, in the city, very few people in Ukraine live like that, though not that uncommon in USA. It stuns them.
They think that this is a " dream home " and a " dream life "; I know from experience dream homes do not make dream marriages.

What would you suggest?

[Gator]

Ambach,

If a woman asks a question, you should acknowledge it in your next letter.

House - Send them two photos of your house: exterior and kitchen.    Just kidding, don't send photo of kitchen unless you are looking for a "stay at home" woman.  You do not have to give the size (besides, sq ft means nothing to them).

Job - Describe you job in one sentence and say that you like your work.  Positive, positive, positive. 

Return you correspondence to regular programming.  After describing your job, you could ask them about their job, whether they wish to pursue a career, family vs. career, etc.

This material should be discussed on the phone so that you receive spontaneous responses.  Use email for photos and important information.

[Ooooops]

I live in an over 3,000 sq. feet townhouse, in the city, very few people in Ukraine live like that, though not that uncommon in USA.

Not bad, not bad...   

As for the pictures of it - do you send those to anybody who asks?   Do they ask to send your bank statements as well?       No, seriously - I don't see the reason to show more than necessary right away.     

[Ronnie]

Here in California, my wife has made friends with a small cadre of RW married to AM.  Each was quite impressed when they learned the size and market value of their new homes.  That was 4-5 years ago and those 4k/month mortgage payments are getting old...especially now that the homes are worth less than payoff value and they're losing them to foreclosure.  We know three couples in that situation.

Women who place such things over the quality of the man could well end up being disappointed in the future.  I'm not saying these RW did that, but had they done so they would now have neither love nor comfort.

My reply to women who ask such questions would be (and was in fact), "do svidanya"

[Ronnie]

My answer to the op and any man who may wonder what to do in his situation.. Only you know for sure.  If you feel your qualities are sketchy, then by all means use your relative wealth to snag her.  Maybe she'll learn to appreciate/love you down the road but I wouldn't hold my breath.

[Gator]

If you feel your qualities are sketchy, then by all means use your relative wealth to snag her.  Maybe she'll learn to appreciate/love you down the road but I wouldn't hold my breath.

I was thinking terrible advice and then I saw your "wouldn't hold my breath" qualifier.

Never use the green lure when fishing; you likely will hook a shark.  And there are plenty of sharks in the RW waters - those RW who feel entitled to wealth simply because of their beauty, whose idea of a holiday is 6 hours of shopping each day at luxury stores followed by exquisite spa treatments,  who will never be satisfied regardless of what you give her, etc.

Fortunately, Ambach, you will not attract the sharks with a 3000SF townhome, yet you could get a barracuda.

With regard to money, I believe a sincere RW's financial criteria (there are many other criteria) will be satisfied if she feels that you are financially stable and personally trustworthy - i. e., she can depend upon you come hell or high water.  RW over 30 have seen so much instability and betrayal.  It is a huge step to leave their country and come to a strange land dependent totally upon you and without the safety net of their family and friends.

[viking]

I was thinking terrible advice and then I saw your "wouldn't hold my breath" qualifier.


Fortunately, Ambach, you will not attract the sharks with a 3000SF townhome, yet you could get a barracuda.

Are you saying that a 3000SF home (considered a pretty decent size by any standards) is small? What size do you consider large enough for a shark? A mega mansion of 14,000? Using a golf cart to get from one side to another? 

[Gator]

Are you saying that a 3000SF home (considered a pretty decent size by any standards) is small? What size do you consider large enough for a shark? A mega mansion of 14,000? Using a golf cart to get from one side to another? 

I would say a 2000 SF home will impress a sincere RW until she learns that you don't own it. 

A 3000 SF home in the Hamptons would be plenty for a shark.  The sharks know.  I recall a conversation with one who asked me about my home.  I did not disclose as much as I could, but did say I had a pool.  She remarked that she preferred a home with an indoor pool.    The encounter was brief.

[Ooooops]

3000 sq feet home in burbs is nothing extraordinary, 3000 sq feet townhome in the city - that's totally different story.      

[KenC]

3000 sq feet home in burbs is nothing extraordinary, 3000 sq feet townhome in the city - that's totally different story.      

I agree.  Location, location, location!
KenC

[BillyB]

I met a young lady at EM, let us say her name is Nadia. After some emails; she asks " Where do you live?, and can you send me some pictures of your living place? "

I thought that was a legitimate question; if I was going to a different country I would want to know where I would be living.

I am a well to do person, and I live in a nice place. I obliged her with her request.

Her email comes back, " that is a dream home". A dream home does NOT make a dream marriage, I know from experience.

Do you think she's more interested in what makes a dream marriage or what type of home you live in? If you're a man of character, have some brains, and a good work ethic, most likely you'll be living in a suitable home. Not once has my fiancee asked for any photos of my material possessions. After we became exclusive, only then did I give her a glimse of the inside and outside of my home. I doubt Nadia will be telling you what makes a dream marriage if you sent her a photo of a trailer house. She probably filters out every man who doesn't live in a suitable home for her standards and wouldn't waste her breath on the others. Next time a woman asks you for a photo of your home, ask her the what size of her bra she wears. When she tells you her breast size, tell her those dream tits won't make a dream marriage as if that is what is really important to you.

Kinda make you wonder if writing ahead of time is wise, doesn't it?

I certainly can figure out some of the posters in this forum based on what they write. Of course one can't learn everything about a person through written words but you can't completely figure them out in a week dating either. Based on what I wrote in letters and what I read, I was eliminated and I eliminated many RW who are not compatable or heading in a different direction in life from me. I pretty much had determined my favorites after 3 letters and got on the phone with them. Letter's to get to know a little about someone is better than buying a plane ticket to go on a series of blind dates. You may meet a 20-100 women before you find one that's perfect for you to marry. Hopping on a plane and going on blind dates add$ up.

Letter writing has also helped me gauge the interest of RW in me. I understand it's not always easy for RW to get to a computer but I sensed some were motivated to read my letters and had a true interest in me by asking me questions about myself and my thoughts on certain issues.

The only way writing letters are a complete waste of time is if you don't have the ability to figure out something about a person through their written words. Who here wants to admit they lack that ability and can't distinguish my views and thoughts based on what I write from the others here?

Letter writing won't guarantee you to find the perfect woman but it can eliminate those who you have no business getting involved with. Too many guys just showed up at an agency in the FSU and paid to go on a series of senseless dates with incompatable women. It's a tool and can be used for a man's/woman's benefit if they know how to use it.

[Ronnie]

Just for the record on this letter writing thing. 

I corresponded with scores (not all at the same time) and my wife corresponded with several. 

We never corresponded with each other.

[ambach123]

Billy B, your point is well taken that you can tell a lot by letter writing. However many times you write letter for months, and when you meet, there is nothing there.

They are buying a package and so are you, the package includes your financial wherewithall. I think inquiries about your job and your " living place " are legitimate ones. If they did not ask these questions, you would wonder about their seriousness.

Also these questions are asked invariably and must be answered.

We are buying a package too, I ask about their education, their jobs etc. so why can't they do the same?
I don't directly ask about their breast sizes but certainly, I look.

[msmoby_ru]

Just for the record on this letter writing thing. 

I corresponded with scores (not all at the same time) and my wife corresponded with several. 

We never corresponded with each other.

Veta and I progressed from letters to phone calls ( sometimes with a chat window open - if we couldn't u/stand each other) pretty quickly - letters were then only used to send documents / photos - or if time zones meant one of us was sleeping

Sorry, I don't get it   .. if you didn't correspond,often how did you get those all important photos that reflect real life..?  Or are you less "vain" than me

If, only I had a British Pound for every photo that's more than five years out of date on all too many profiles..... If a lady / guy can't be honest about their age or looks, you'd wonder what else they are "hiding"...

Note for FSU ladies... WHY do you do it? I knew of one lady, who I'd met, who started saying she was five years younger. .. and before you ask,   she was on one of the sites were my good lady had a profile !

As a WOVO "advocate"  - surely correspondence - in conjunction with phone calls - allows us to learn things about people we THINK we like, and might want to meet ?

I certainly think that a FSU woman has the right to ask about our financial security.. ( if she is evaluating your "suitability" ) .. after all, she is thinking.. "if I like this man, I will be relying on him financially in a strange country".

Ambach: I simply can't agree that "however many times you write letter for months, and when you meet, there is nothing there..."

Really, I knew what I was going to see and how she would be. Only it was better...

If you can't arrange to meet within a couple of months, there is a danger you might lose out to a "rival" .. and the guys that have been in touch with her, before you arrive on the scene, will suddenly make plans to come, bla bla...

Don't kid yourself, it is a competitive market, and "he who dares, wins"...

[KenC]

Moby,
How many WOVO trips did you make before you found your sweetie?
KenC

[BillyB]

However many times you write letter for months, and when you meet, there is nothing there.

Wasted months of writing is not the fault of letters, it's the fault of the people writing them. If one is religious and communicating with an atheist, then they are wasting each others time writing more than 1 letter to each other. Too many people reluctant to let another go if things don't seem right.

What good are letters if the people writing them have a failure to communicate? One man came to a forum and said he meet a RW after a year of correspondence. things went great and was headed for marriage until he found out she wanted kids and he couldn't have any. These things should've been talked about much earlier. We all say we want a family oriented husband/wife yet through our communication many of us fail to talk about family oriented topics. These two people should've never met or wasted a year on each other. It wasn't the letter writing campaign's fault, it was theirs.

We are buying a package too, I ask about their education, their jobs etc. so why can't they do the same?

That's fine but it's tacky asking how much each other makes on the job or photos of your home or car. How would most of us know how far $400 a month will go in the FSU or she know how far $4000 a month will go in America anyway unless she's has friends who tipped her off on a number she shouldn't go below when looking for a husband in America? I'd recommend to guys to sell themselves without the need of assistance from material items or exotic vacations. Have more confidence in yourself instead of what you own or can give to catch a woman. Once you win the woman over for who you are, then take your fiancee/wife on exotic vacations and put her in a nice car.

I once sent letters to over 600 women in a month. I quickly cut off anyone who sounded stupid, materialistic, have problems in their life that are solved with money, or was simply not compatable with me. Those I wrote to were all very beautiful but I certainly don't want to marry the wrong person or a gold digging bitch just to have a hot body in bed. Too many fish in the sea to mess around with the wrong ones. I discovered a lot about those RW through what they wrote. Without letters to filter them out, I certainly would've been open to dating every one of them based on looks alone and of course wasting time and $ flying to go see them since most will not be compatable or sincere with me.

Although I promote writing letters a lot here, I also promote calling ladies up often once she seems interested in you and you find you both have similar goals. I was calling ladies in less than a month after sending my first letter to them. If you hit it off, you can quickly determine the ladies that you potentially can have a good relationship with. In most failed trip reports I read, the guy rarely or never called the lady/ladies he's visiting. A guy can't expect to marry the first woman he meets here so he shouldn't expect the first RW he meets there to be the right one. Again, letter writing is  a tool and I'll add it is not intended for months or years of use to figure someone out. Over 600 women written to, phone calls to the ones that seemed right, and then I made the decision in less than a month in a half to visit the one that seemed right. Making a decision on who you're dealing with doesn't take long. I'm sure I made the best choice out of all those women I wrote to and even if it didn't work out with #1, other RW I communicated with had potential and were still hoping I'd visit them if it didn't work out with #1.

[KenC]

Billy,
If you used data collected from many (600) women to pare down your list of acceptable women with which to proceed, why is it wrong for a woman to do the same?  I would think that when a woman asks how the man lives, it is a rather good question.  Don't you think the women have a right to compare what it is the man is offering up to other men?  And yes, the ability to provide is an acceptable criteria in my book.
KenC

[BillyB]

I would think that when a woman asks how the man lives, it is a rather good question.  Don't you think the women have a right to compare what it is the man is offering up to other men?  And yes, the ability to provide is an acceptable criteria in my book.
KenC

I'm all for that and I have told ladies I make enough by American standards to provide for a family. It's when they want details that I have an issue with. A guy living in a trailor park could lie and sent photos of a nice home he lifted of the internet to get into the sack with a RW. Hopefully a RW isn't gullible enough to believe everything said or written to her. I have a strong suspicion most guys communicating with RW hype themselves up anyway. Most people of good character and have a good head on their shoulders can obtain a job good enough to support a family. A woman should focus on a man who has his act together. He may not be rich but he will not be living in a trailer park either.