Positive Advice For Newbies

[Doll]

Who can tell the slow and dumb Russian lady (me) what AM are risking with?
In a plain English 
 

[catzenmouse]

Doll,

 You are hardly "slow and dumb". So forget about money and time during the search and adjustment phases as they, IMO, are more choices than risks.

 If an AM does not take the smart path and marries a stranger he risks his (and his children's if he has any) future with possible financial disaster from divorce, DV charges, or just simple mismanagement of funds. Add to that the emotional, social, and and possible physical destruction that can happen it isn't too hard to see that there are risks involved.

 From my point of view the man's risks are minor (if he does not marry a stranger) compared to the woman's risks as it is she who, most of the time, is giving up everything she has and has known in her life to be with her husband.

FWIW,
 Ken

[Doll]

If an AM does not take the smart path and marries a stranger he risks his (and his children's if he has any) future with possible financial disaster from divorce, DV charges, or just simple mismanagement of funds. Add to that the emotional, social, and and possible physical destruction that can happen it isn't too hard to see that there are risks involved.

Same with AW.
Come on guys! For a RW there is always INS to protect AM for 3-4 years.
Prenups, laws- everything is for AM.
Come on!

[Simoni]

 From my point of view the man's risks are minor (if he does not marry a stranger) compared to the woman's risks as it is she who, most of the time, is giving up everything she has and has known in her life to be with her husband.

FWIW,
 Ken

Well said, Ken.  

Doll-- the risks to the man are very slim compared to what the woman risks.  You have it right.

[catzenmouse]

USCIS and Pre-nups don't protect the man. (Personally I wouldn't marry someone if I felt I needed a Prenup) Women's Rights groups, laws and lawyers in the US are built to shred AM not protect them.

Ken

P. S. Hey Si! Big hello to you both from us up here in Forever WinterLand!

[Gator]

Who can tell the slow and dumb Russian lady (me) what AM are risking with?
In a plain English 

Doll, your implication is correct.  A sincere RW has much more to lose than a sincere AM.  

THE FSU WOMAN.  She is giving up her her family, her friends, her job, her culture, her language, etc. to move to a strange land and for a long adjustment period become totally dependent upon someone who in most cases is still a stranger.

THE MAN.  What does he have to lose?  

-  If both are sincere yet don't like each other after a meeting, he has wasted only a vacation.  That's life.

-  If she is insincere, she will probably separate him from some money.  So don't spend money on someone playing a game.

-  If he marries a stranger, even in good faith, they may discover that they are not suited for each other, and he may waste a couple of years and the expense of divorce.  

-  If he is a fantasy seeker, and does not take the the Catzenmouse's "smart path" (i. e., know yourself, be realistic and know your woman), the consequences can get far worse, even worse than marrying a local woman.

Come on guys! For a RW there is always INS to protect AM for 3-4 years.
Prenups, laws- everything is for AM.
Come on!

A prenup must be reasonable, and the courts will consider her delicate situation.  I don't understand your INS comment.  Maxx was married for a very short time.


 

[Gator]

BACK TO THE ORIGINAL POSTER'S QUESTION

Catman, a man can read whatever he wants to read. 

If the "negative" stories dissuade a man, such as your friend, from corresponding and making a trip, he probably never would have hung in long enough to be convinced to marry a sincere RW.  This is an adventure, requiring adventurous men. 

There are ample "postive" stories proving that the reward is worth the risk.

[Misha]

5. More risky because we typically spend less time with our partners before marriage than we would with a girl living in our own cities... thus higher risk;

As a Canadian, Catman will have to spend a LOT of time with any woman that he marries if he wants to avoid the risk of her application to Citizenship and Immigration Canada for permanent residence being rejected.

[Simoni]

Hey Si! Big hello to you both from us up here in Forever WinterLand!

And back to you from Forever Summerland!  And happy birthday to E!

[Doll]

USCIS and Pre-nups don't protect the man. (Personally I wouldn't marry someone if I felt I needed a Prenup) Women's Rights groups, laws and lawyers in the US are built to shred AM not protect them.

 

Oh, yes they do! You just need to do some reading.

[Catman]

A lot of men who go to the FSU to find a wife have been married here and for whatever reason divorced. What difference is it to marry an FSUW? Is that the risk mentioned here? It may end in divorce? Scared to lose half?
I see a lot of men write that they have had no problem finding a date in North America. Then why go to FSU? I can imagine what quality women a man 40-50 year old here is dating. There is no way you will date a woman here that is 25 years old, smoking hot, and likes to cook a nice meal for her man. You may find a hottie here but that will be all she has, her looks. You might find a nice girl to date here but she will have no looks. I think the whole package girl is in the FSU. I was hoping to see something positive for newbies to read that wouldn't scare them off. Sure there are scammers out there but the rest of the world is also waiting to take money from you anyway they can. The forum here has a lot of good advice but I have read so many negative posts. Look at the bright side. If you follow the guidelines given here by the experienced you have a good chance to meet a nice girl in FSU. Then there are many posts that make it sound like you will have to walk through 40 below weather waist deep in snow for 100 miles, you must be a man that eats nails for breakfast, you will have to stay in an apartment that is decaying, awful, ect. I don't think it is such a big deal to go there to try and find someone nice. When I went to Ukraine everyone I met was very nice, the apartments were great, the women could not be compared to anything you might date here. My problem was I didn't have the wisdom and advise of others, I was inexperienced not knowing that there were forums on the net with good advice but other than that I loved it. What a great adventure to go on such a trip to meet some beautiful women and to experience the culture!
Right now I'm talking on the phone with a beautiful girl from Ukraine, writing to many others and narrowing down the list to plan a trip sometime this summer. Yes it is much better to meet an English speaking girl but I am lucky I can speak a lot of Ukrainian to converse with the other girls. My advise to newbies is try this. What do you have to lose? Money? When you are sitting in the retirement home years from now with no family to visit you, no one, nothing, I am sure you will be thinking "Why didn't I go to FSU? My life could have been so much better had I not been scared off." What good will the money you saved be to you then? Or if you are scared off the idea of going to FSU and you decide to settle for a girl here and are depressed the rest of your life because she is not at all what you wanted?
Newbies definetly need advice and help but also positive advice.

[Doll]

 

A prenup must be reasonable, and the courts will consider her delicate situation.

 I've read more than one prenup between AM and RW which were reasonable for AM and court and unfair for RW. Zero risk for men and no choice for women.
They all were signed.


 

I don't understand your INS comment.

For 3 or 4 years the woman can get through immigration cr... stuff ONLY if she is married to this AM otherwise her status is terminated.
And it is only about status!
 

Maxx was married for a very short time

And?
 

[KenC]

Doll,
I agree that RW's risks are tremendous in this process but that does not eliminate the risks that the men take.  I will admit that many of the risks are financial unless you consider the risks to the heart as many men have been duped into thinking some scammer is in love with them.  I will try to detail Kuna's statements for you in hopes to clarify.

More risky...  let me try to explain:

1. For many men (especially AM I think), their experience traveling overseas is limited, therefore they will make innocent mistakes that could cost huge amounts of money AND/OR time that simply wouldn't happen in environments at home that they're more accustomed to;

  The risk of traveling great distances to a country with a different language and culture.  There are so many inherent risks in traveling such great distances:the risk of the travel itself, the risk of missing a connecting flight in some unknown city, the risk of losing your luggage, the risk of going through a foreign custom check (one fellow spent 2 years in a Russian prison), the risk of the unknown once you arrive (taxi drivers, taking trains to unknown destinations when you really do not understand the language), the risk of getting duped or scammed by apartment owners or agencies regarding your living accommodations, the risk of carrying large sums of money and once on the ground the risk of the clever Russians taking advantage of the American.

2.  The MOB industry has a very sophisticated sub-culture which is fraudulent, something you simply don't deal with at home;

I really do not understand how you cannot understand this?  Agencies exist to make money while pulling the heartstrings of the foreign man.  The man's heart and wallet are constantly in play and at risk.

3. There are many guides ripping off men and scamming them in the most dreadful way - all for selfish gain.  Some do it for fees.  Some do it for a free trip pus fees.  Most are little more than confidence tricksters.  Again, something else a man is unlikely to face at home;

  Same as above with the additional risk that some of these "guides" additionally play the "friend card" to further dupe the trusting man out of more money

4. More risky because a typical AM has never managed the cultural differences he'll find in FSU people (not just women);

  Much like the language problems but slightly different.  I have seen many a naive AM tolerate horrid behavior by RW (and other Russians) when they incorrectly put this behavior off as a cultural difference.

5. More risky because we typically spend less time with our partners before marriage than we would with a girl living in our own cities... thus higher risk;

Again, I do not understand why this is difficult for you to comprehend.  Because of the nature of this process, many couples rush into an ill advised marriage too quickly.  The risk of the marriage blowing up in your face is huge.  The man is the one who suffers the brunt of the financial payment for this mistake.  There is also the risk of a false DV claim being made which risks tarnishing the mans record for life.  The man also has to financially guarantee to support the woman which is an additional financial risk.

6 More risky because distance and modern communication leaves MANY gaps in our understanding, and a man is more likely to fantasize about what MIGHT be, rather than experience WHAT IS.  Perhaps related to distance and time, but more about the imagination playing tricks on a man who may be desperate and lonely.

  Rushing into a relationship with someone you have difficulty in communicating with that may or may not be sincere encouraged by an agency who's main goal to to make money is the epitome of high risk.  The man is risking his financial future, social embarrassment, a broken heart and the possibility of jail time (DV charges).  Is that more clear now? :noidea:
KenC

[Doll]

The risk of traveling great distances to a country with a different language and culture.  There are so many inherent risks in traveling such great distances:the risk of the travel itself, the risk of missing a connecting flight in some unknown city, the risk of losing your luggage, the risk of going through a foreign custom check (one fellow spent 2 years in a Russian prison), the risk of the unknown once you arrive (taxi drivers, taking trains to unknown destinations when you really do not understand the language), the risk of getting duped or scammed by apartment owners or agencies regarding your living accommodations, the risk of carrying large sums of money and once on the ground the risk of the clever Russians taking advantage of the American.

Poor kids!
Ken all you've written above is NOT about marrying RW- it is about travelling in general. You can go to China for sightseeing with same "risks"
Though if you consider it a part of relationships....

[Doll]

I really do not understand how you cannot understand this?  Agencies exist to make money while pulling the heartstrings of the foreign man.  The man's heart and wallet are constantly in play and at risk.

Вот блин!
Then don't use agencies! Thousands of people go online and find the matches.
I can think of thousands "agencies" that want my money- just watch TV.

[KenC]

 
 I've read more than one prenup between AM and RW which were reasonable for AM and court and unfair for RW. Zero risk for men and no choice for women.
They all were signed.

WRONG!  In a divorce, it is the judge who decides the final settlement.  He may or may not follow the terms of the prenupt because he can take into account the conditions at the time the document was signed.

For 3 or 4 years the woman can get through immigration cr... stuff ONLY if she is married to this AM otherwise her status is terminated.
And it is only about status!

UNLESS the woman decides to use the DV trigger that gives her immediate status.  And let us not forget the financial guarantee that the man must make.


  

And?
 

Maxx's wife filed DV charges and forever ruined his life.
KenC

[KenC]

Poor kids!
Ken all you've written above is NOT about marrying RW- it is about travelling in general. You can go to China for sightseeing with same "risks"
Though if you consider it a part of relationships....

Doll,
The difference is that these men would not be in the fsu if not for pursuing the relationship.
KenC

[KenC]

Вот блин!
Then don't use agencies! Thousands of people go online and find the matches.
I can think of thousands "agencies" that want my money- just watch TV.

Doll,
Now you are advising how to reduce the risks and that is why RWD is here!  the simple fact is that many (most?) men have used agencies of some kind or another.  There are also some honest agencies too, but that is getting into risk managment and still does not eliminate the risk factor.
KenC

[Doll]

UNLESS the woman decides to use the DV trigger that gives her immediate status.  And let us not forget the financial guarantee that the man must make.

Hon, do you have any idea what a pain in the A$$$$$$$ it is?
Another pain is to get one tenth of this guarantee.The chances are slim to nothing.
It looks nice in the papers but almost never works.

Maxx's wife filed DV charges and forever ruined his life

Why is his life ruined let me ask you? He lost nothing.
Also it could happen in the cases with AW which happens 100 times more often.

[Doll]

The difference is that these men would not be in the fsu if not for pursuing the relationship.

Thousands people travel all over the world , I wouldn't consider the travel part risky.

[groovlstk]

There are plenty of "artists" among Russian and Ukrainian women who are more than willing to use the words "I love you" on naive western men for a chance at a better future.

I dated American women for two decades and the number of times these three words were said to me could be counted on one hand. I had no doubt then, or now, about the sincerity of the women who said these words to me.

I dated Ukrainian and Russian women for six years or so before I met my wife, and I heard these words perhaps a dozen times. Only one truly meant what she said, and I married her.

Would I have been naive to believe such words from women I didn't know very well? Hell yes. Does that disqualify such insincerity (or desperation, or both) as being labelled a risk to men? Hell no. 

FWIW though, I agree w/Doll that in most cases the risk burden is higher on women than men, but that should probably have its own topic.

[Misha]

Doll,
The difference is that these men would not be in the fsu if not for pursuing the relationship.
KenC

That is invariably the problem IMHO. They should be traveling there because they enjoy the country, the people, the culture.

[KenC]

That is invariably the problem IMHO. They should be traveling there because they enjoy the country, the people, the culture.

Misha,
Yeah, right.   Good luck with that thought!
KenC

[KenC]

BTW I am with Ed asking same question: why is it risky?
It IS risky for a RW but not for any AM.

Doll,
Ed asked for the risks the man has to take as you did here.  Kuna and I tried to answer the question.  No one is trying to minimize the risks the women take here, but that really wasn't the subject of the conversation either.

I agree with Groov that you should start a thread with regard to the tremendous risks the women take in this venture.  You will get nothing but support from my address on that subject.  But the high risks that the women take does not eliminate the risks the men take either.  They are real.
KenC

[groovlstk]

Ken,
I would agree with you about the "high reward" part. But I'm really not so clear on what is such high risk about finding a RW?

Eduard, in past posts you've claimed that most of the AM/RW couples you know have very flimsy bases for marriage, that most American guys are too naive and easily used. The reasons and remedies for this have nothing to do with this thread, but if your observations are correct (and as much as I hope you can address this without plugging your service, I happen to agree with you 100%), the inherent "risk" is pretty obvious.