My search is over, ALREADY!!

[Bruce]

I feel sorry for the girls you describe above Elen.   As long as there is a greater supply of available women than men, men will always have an advantage.  

The reality is that there really are very few RW actively looking for a Western man.   There really are very few American men honestly actively looking for a Russian woman.  Out of the American men honestly actively looking only for a RW only a small percentage will actually be able to meet and marry a RW. 

It is a very difficult game for the RW who meets a Western man to hold him.   Language, culture and the ability to appeal to a Western man is a daunting task for many women. 

It is an equally difficult game for the American man to wade through scammer women, girls looking for a green card escape from Russia, good time girls just out to meet a man for dinner and drinks (scammer light) and outright prostitutes.  Once the guy meets the girl it is also fairly difficult to have a long distance relationship while paperwork necessary to bring the girl to the USA is taking place. 

Thats why there really are so few American - Russian K-1 visas, as well as K-3 visas processed each year.  Statistics on the K-1 processed visas show that a fairly large percentage of women go back home prior to even marrying the man they think they knew who visited them in Russia. 

 

[Elen]

I do know how difficult this game that's why I'm strongly against it if there is even 1% of chances to marry at your own country. That's why I said Naive was lucky.:?

[Photo Guy]

The right woman is worth the difficulty.

[jb]

Your translation did not alter my understanding of this woman's desperation.  She still needs to be able to sort out the idiots from the good guys.  Had she asked a few simple questions before rushing off to meet Prince Charming she could have saved herself the trip.

As it is,,, she needs to polish her dating skills a bit.

[Elen]

Firstly it were TWO different girls.

Secondary I was about "feelings" but not about thier mistakes. It was about results of dating through internet. What and whose mistakes and faults have leaded to such results is an issue for topic with another 400 posts and which never could be "objective" as "other" sides NEVER present in such discussions.

And all those should's and should not's are hard to be followed in reality.( without dropping in paranoia or cynism)  So for me there is only one should not- if you don't want to have a broken several times heart and hopes - then you should not play in a game called "find husband in America' ( well as this forum is only for America )

[jb]

Elen wrote:

then you should not play in a game called "find husband in America' ( well as this forum is only for America )

Elen, I disagree, there are plenty of good hearted and kind American men looking for love.  Many are men of ample means and good intentions.  They lead good lives, love their children, and are more than willing to take on the added responsibility of a second, "ready made" family.  This is not something to be discarded lightly.  The thing you, and other RWs, must come to grips with is these men are not looking to be used as a mule to the promised land.  They want the stability of a family and are willing to go the distance in order to find it.  The moment they get the idea that the RW is using them, they are more apt to hit the road than not. And who could blame them?  

I often question the motivation of Russian women involved in a search for a husband in this fashion.  If she is sincere she should not have a problem, if she is not sincere, she gets what she plays for.

[KenC]

Elen,

First of all, thank you for the interpretation.  As with many things, there is a learning curve with Internet "dating".  Many fail to ever reach the stage where they are good at it.  I know I learned a lot from meeting AW from the Internet some 7-9 years ago.  I learned from my mistakes and became much more proficeint at the game later.  These learning experiences helped me greatly when I "met" my wife via the Net.  I had already learned not only not to fall in love with a photo, but not even a voice.  I knew "all bets could be off" as soon as we were face to face.  This kept my hopes very realistic if not a tad pesimistic before we met in person.  I also was smart enough to recognize when somethng is very right too.

KenC

[Elen]

Now JB and I just think there are too many females here with fair intensions to love husbands and raise children. And I CAN"T get WHY you choose the worst of them. Though after reading your ( I mean not your personal) posts about how you make choices taking into account only youth and beauty of future wife… Well you get what you deserve. ( well for your calm I think the same about those girls who look only for you walets)

 At least it's not girls who make the first choice but you males who decide who you are going to visit.



 KenC

It's males who have a prevelege to spend ( or likely waste) SUCH many years in internet dating But female's time is limitted ( by nobody but by you males) and women just  have not 7-9 years because they would be put out to pasture by you too soon. 

[KenC]

Elen,

I understand your joke, but you misunderstand what I said.  I used the Net to meet potential dates for only a few years (2-3) back around 1996.  I didn't use the Net for seven years of dating.   But your point is well taken and that is why we have to date RW so young!:cool:

KenC

[PeeWee]

You can't even guess how lucky you are:D

Why do you say it, Elen? Lucky because he was smart enough to recognize scammer or lucky because he did not get involved with any Russian woman?

PeeWee

[naive]

HOLLY SMOKES !!!  What happened here.  I come home and there is carnage everywhere.  God forgive me for what I started.  However, believe it or not, there are so viewpoints I learnt and realized my own fallacies that I cannot thank you enough.  Allow me to express my thoughts.

 

KenC and PhotoGuy, I admire you attitude that dating should be fun.  However, I always found dating to be a little stressful; I enjoy life after all that is said and done.  I think I can handle the challenges after and enjoy life afterwards.  PhotoGuy, I also admire your resolve to find the right woman.  Swindoom, thanks for sharing your experience about Omsk; gives one some courage to make a trip.  Jb and Bruce, you are a men of infinite wisdom.  Thanks for sharing some of it with us.  Jb, you are like Moses, leading the herd, with all that wisdom and experience.  KenC, I don't want to be pro in dating.  I was just hoping to meet a decent Russian girl.

 

My dear Elen, thank you for sharing the stories of those two unfortunate girls. I cannot even begin to tell you how sorry and embarrassed I feel by the actions of my fellow men.  I deeply regret it.  Truly, I am too naïve to understand the agony and issues of the other side.  Please, if you have access to these girls, tell them we are so sorry from the bottom of our hearts.  Ask them to forgive us; I know RW have big hearts.  Maybe you can cut this para, translate it in Russian and post it on their forum.  Like in other situations, it is always the innocent who suffer.  It is just not fair!!:(

 

As for me personally, I have never misrepresented myself.  I put it all in my intro letter, except for some personal info to avoid identity theft.  I have all four limbs; I only have 1 missing molar tooth; although I never share that info, but maybe I should put that in my intro letter too.  (The only reason I hate to get it fixed is avoid all the drilling the dentist is going to do).   And the stories of one of two girls is precisely I can't handle writing/juggling with tens if not hundreds of girls.  I think it is disrespectful to the other side.

 

Ellen wrote:

I do know how difficult this game that's why I'm strongly against it if there is even 1% of chances to marry at your own country. That's why I said Naive was lucky.

 

Elen, please allow me to disagree with you here.  I live in San Francisco bay area.  We are a multi-cultural society.  I think we as a world live in multicultural society.  I would love to see more cross cultural unions.  I think it will make life so much more fun and world a safer place. 

 

I do have made a resolve to learn Russian if ever I decide to look to the east again.  Thank you PhotoGuy for the recommended CD set. 

 

Take care guys; I am enjoying the Monday night football, Dallas vs Seattle.

naive.

[Elen]

Well I 'm still sure Naibe was lucky because he dropped ( Did I get it right) this dangerouse business of seaching wive through internet in alien country

I'n not against international marriage in principle ( though I think it only add a troubles in family life), I'm not against meeting trough internet

BUT I think it's may be successful only if three ( all of them) conditions present

- you can meet other side after few e-mails in reality

- you can communicate at the same language you both know very well

- you can spend as much time in reality as you want (or need) in order to know other side

If you have all three of that then Internet is just a tool - no better, bo worse than a phone or hand written letters in former times. Though no garantees here as well just like it's in real life

But in many cases people have no even one of this conditions.

PS I'll post your words in Russian forum Naive

[swindoom]

The internet is just a modern way of meeting new people, it has it's advantages an disadvantages just like other ways of meeting people but it does not matter which method you choose to use you have to be realistic and pragmatic. The fact my fiancee is from Omsk was totally irelevent to me, we met online got on really well and decided to meet, just like I have done with women in my own country.  The only real difference is I have to make alot more effort and ensure we spend quality time together.

[Elen]

EXACTLY  it's rubbish for YOU because you can't do it at such long distance with your a lack of time and money!

-------------------------

Rubbish, why would you rush to meet anyone, you have meet on the internet, it gives you a reasonable chance to get to know someone before making the effort and commitment to meet.

FIGNYA!! Untill you see his/her in reality you have too many chances to picture in your mind absolutely oposite person. Only meeting in reality really means something for future relationship. All other is just virtuality and your dreams nothing more!

Again, rubbish, at our first meeting my fiancee spoke little English and my Russian was even worse but we had lots of fun overcoming that difficulty, why would anyone let a trival thing like language get in the way, unless your lazy and expect to have a relationship with no difficulties to overcome.

ФИГНЯ! once more!! Language IS NOT trivial thing! And each such successful example like yours does nothing to the fact that it's odd to built relationship with a persone who in best case understands a half of what you say. But you may try, as they say there IS a % of posability that brick could fly (forgot already how to prove that with formulas:D)

  

This is true for any relationship or friendship but I do not see the relevence.

 Of course that's true. And I don't understand what you don't see.

In other words БЛАЖЕН, КТО ВЕ� УЕТ!

 

[Turboguy]

This is an intereseting thread.    Talking about the numbers, I started this over a decade ago and just had to clean house because my gal arrives in 3 days.    From the pre-internet days I had three great big garbage bags of snail mail letters that I put out for the garbage.   If you are going to give up after a hand full of e-mails, it is probably best because it does take a lot of effort and determination and if you are not in it for the long haul you are better off out of it.

Elen, I think there is a lot of truth in what you say.   I think think things that don't fit are only obstacles and they can be overcome but it takes determination.   I do think that you never know who you are meeting till you meet them.  I have met a ton of gals that were night and day different than who I thought I was meeting.   

I think it is going to be tough for someone without a common language.   I know my gal and I will face some issues on this.   She knows a good bit of English, but we can not have long detailed conversations.    There are a lot of things I think about discussing and know the language differences will not let us.   I think anything you need to overcome depends a lot on the type of individuals involved and thier motivations and desires.    

I think most of us think about the scams and misrepresenations we run into.   Elen's posts about the gals and thier experiences was interesting and sad.  I think some have better luck but I am sure those things happen.         

 

[Michelangelo]

I agree with Elen on all three points.

Langauge is the most important of the three.  

My example: After writing a girl who had her letters translated, the meeting was a problem.  You need to be able to speak directly to the girl if you are truly interested in marriage.  And heck, even in just dating, cuz who wants the third wheel, the intrept, along on your dates?

In another example, one girl who I did have "chemistry" with, was tempting.  But when I got home, I realized there were too many unknowns since I had never talked to this girl directly.  Her kisses were nice, but the inner person is what you have to get to know...

Now I only meet girls who speak some degree of English...

[swindoom]

EXACTLY  it's rubbish for YOU because you can't do it at such long distance with your a lack of time and money!


Distances are all relative, how far is too far , I have met women on the internet that are not willing to look outside their own city because it is too much effort. When my friendship with my fiancee looked like it was progressing, I thought about the time and money required, making sure I could visit her or she could visit me as often as possible, I have seen her almost every month since the start of the year. The advantage of not being together all the time is it gives you the opportunity to analyse the situation in the cold light of day without things clouding your judgement.
-------------------------

FIGNYA!! Untill you see his/her in reality you have too many chances to picture in your mind absolutely oposite person. Only meeting in reality really means something for future relationship. All other is just virtuality and your dreams nothing more!


I would never base any decisions about my future purely on emails and the odd picture, after meeting English women of the internet I was disappointed 99 % of the time as they did not match the image they had created of themselves. It was not until my third visit to Omsk did I decide that my friendship with my fiancee was now becoming a relationship and that my fiancee was worth the effort of a 17 hour journey, each way, and negotiating the transfer between terminals 2 and 1 at Moscow Sheremetyevo.


ФИГНЯ! once more!! Language IS NOT trivial thing! And each such successful example like yours does nothing to the fact that it's odd to built relationship with a persone who in best case understands a half of what you say. But you may try, as they say there IS a % of posability that brick could fly (forgot already how to prove that with formulas:D)


Maybe the % is very low when langauge is a problem because people are not willing to make the effort, especially western men, as the west is a society where people expect instant success with minimum effort, normally no effort. Or maybe I am the exception to the rule, I did notice that all the western guys I met on my travels in Russia seemed to be with Russian women who were already good at English.

The best things in life are always worth working for, if you do not do anything you do not get anywhere.